Blaudschun--Catholic Schools Met in NYC... | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Blaudschun--Catholic Schools Met in NYC...

Status
Not open for further replies.
If the Big East lose MSG, where will the Big East Tourney go? My guess is Providence.
 
They have to do things soon I would imagine because once the other teams are officially in the conference the bb only schools would not be able to dissolve the conference. They are waiting long enough to get the monies from Pitt and Cuse.

UConn's situation is bleak at the moment. The school was always strategically vulnerable. President Herbst will have to make some difficult decisions. There are three competing needs for the university, academics, the basketball program and the football program. Obviously academics is the far most important consideration. The problem is that it is hard to quantify the value athletics contributes to the success of the university. It certainly contributes.

I would imagine that football goes to one conference and all other sports to another conference. The eastern football schools invited into the NBE might be conferring with one another but that group is so varied and dissimilar I doubt they can formulate a decent plan. Furthermore the ACC will now probably take Cinci or UConn or both just to prevent them from helping strengthen another conference. We can only hope UConn is taken. That certainly isn't a given. So UConn is on a leaking row boat in the middle of the Pacific with a typhoon bearing down on them. But I believe they'll get back to shore. Question is will they be intact or part of the Japanese tsunami debris.

No matter what happens all the traditional rivalries will be ended.
 
FriarJ said:
This is my hope and I really think it will be considered. Add Xavier, Butler, Dayton, Creighton, St. Louis to get to 12. Then invite UConn, Temple, Cincy, Memphis for all sports except football with the caveat that they can leave at anytime with no penalty. Keep the BE name, keep MSG. Call it a day.
Expand ...


Leave at any time with no penalty? How you going to broker any tv contracts when there is still impetus for the football schools to leave at any time and with no penalty? It is a recipe for more instability. I'd love schools like Uconn, Temple, Cincy etc in the conference for bball, but they don't want to be there. If the Catholic schools are going to break away, it is not by choice it is by necessity. Can't include programs that are "thinking with their helmet."
 
MCNPA said:
Can't include programs that are "thinking with their helmet."
Expand ...

If it wasn't your association with schools thinking with their helmet, your boys would have been passed by Stony Brook years ago.
 
MCNPA said:
Leave at any time with no penalty? How you going to broker any tv contracts when there is still impetus for the football schools to leave at any time and with no penalty? It is a recipe for more instability. I'd love schools like Uconn, Temple, Cincy etc in the conference for bball, but they don't want to be there. If the Catholic schools are going to break away, it is not by choice it is by necessity. Can't include programs that are "thinking with their helmet."
Expand ...

None of UConn, Temple, Cincy, etc. should ever sign into a league that doesn't either have a football conference or have a leave with no/minimal penalty clause (maybe a decent notice of withdrawal period).
 
Then there's another unsubstantiated rumor: The Catholics want 2 Catholic Schools added (Butler and Xavier) to equalize the vote and to maximize NCAA Tourney money and restore respect to the basketball league.

If it goes that way I'm good with all the posturing.
 
.-.
RS9999X said:
Then there's another unsubstantiated rumor: The Catholics want 2 Catholic Schools added (Butler and Xavier) to equalize the vote and to maximize NCAA Tourney money and restore respect to the basketball league.

If it goes that way I'm good with all the posturing.
Expand ...

Butler isn't a Cathoic school though. But I'm not sure that matters.
 
dsturdy5 said:
http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=4188

Great, now what is UConn going to be left with?
Expand ...
This should have been done 10 years ago, so it isn't that big a deal. Reality is though that these guys won't make anywhere near the money they currently do. They'll likely make A-10 level money. Georgetwon gets that, but i doubt Providence and Seton Hall do. In the long run, though, it really just makes sense to create separate leagues. Providence, Seton Hall, St Johns, they have zero in common with the larger football schools. Not athletically, not academically, not in terms of their missions or in terms of where they want to go with their programs. its been that way for a decade or more.
 
freescooter said:
This should have been done 10 years ago, so it isn't that big a deal. Reality is though that these guys won't make anywhere near the money they currently do. They'll likely make A-10 level money. Georgetwon gets that, but i doubt Providence and Seton Hall do. In the long run, though, it really just makes sense to create separate leagues. Providence, Seton Hall, St Johns, they have zero in common with the larger football schools. Not athletically, not academically, not in terms of their missions or in terms of where they want to go with their programs. its been that way for a decade or more.
Expand ...

Completely agree. Of course if this was done 10 years ago, no telling which side UConn ends up on.
 
FriarJ said:
This is my hope and I really think it will be considered. Add Xavier, Butler, Dayton, Creighton, St. Louis to get to 12. Then invite UConn, Temple, Cincy, Memphis for all sports except football with the caveat that they can leave at anytime with no penalty. Keep the BE name, keep MSG. Call it a day.
Expand ...

Why would they want a crappy school far away like Memphis? And why Temple when they could grab St. Joes in Philly instead? They might be willing to let UConn and Cinci stay, but Memphis and Temple have no shot. This is about a conference of like minded institutions within a reasonable travel range of each other. Marquette is already too far, but wouldn't be too bad for Creighton or SLU.
 
If I was Swofford I'd propose adding St John's, Georgetown, and Villanova for basketball to join Notre Dame.

Might as well swoop in the for the kill and then openly ridicule UConn in the press when the ACC alternates between MSG and Charlotte for Tourneys.
 
.-.
This is all rumor. Nothing is going to happen. The 7 Catholic school can't walk away with approx. 150M of NCAA credits due to league members for the next 6 years. Credits are given to the conf. not the individual schools.
 
RS9999X said:
Then there's another unsubstantiated rumor: The Catholics want 2 Catholic Schools added (Butler and Xavier) to equalize the vote and to maximize NCAA Tourney money and restore respect to the basketball league.
Expand ...
"Restore respect to the basketball league"? Meaning what exactly?
 
caw said:
Probably meaning they don't want the football schools ****ting on them...which really didn't happen enough.
Expand ...
LOL. Or at all. The FB schools sat on their asses and let the Catholic schools call the shots. That led to a weakening of the conference and then the poaching began. The football schools should have at least dropped some bunny turds on the Catholic schools. Then maybe we wouldn't be in the cluster that we are and the BE might be the conference poaching other schools.
 
mcs333 said:
This is all rumor. Nothing is going to happen. The 7 Catholic school can't walk away with approx. 150M of NCAA credits due to league members for the next 6 years. Credits are given to the conf. not the individual schools.
Expand ...


Bball schools have a clause that as a group they can walk away from the conference. It was apparently signed in about 10 years when V-tech and others left. I don't know what happens with NCAA credits though.
 
.-.
UCONNfan1 said:
LOL. Or at all. The FB schools sat on their asses and let the Catholic schools call the shots. That led to a weakening of the conference and then the poaching began. The football schools should have at least dropped some bunny turds on the Catholic schools. Then maybe we wouldn't be in the cluster **** that we are and the BE might be the conference poaching other schools.
Expand ...


How do you figure the bball schools are entirely at fault for weakening the conference?
 
caw said:
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bas...ll-schools-creating-21-team-conference-source

Now that would make things interesting:

La Salle
Richmond
Xavier
Butler
Dayton
Saint Josephs
VCU
Saint Louis
St. Bonaventure
UMass
Duquesne
George Washington
Rhode Island
Fordham

Providence
Georgetown
St John's
DePau
Marquette
Villanova
Seton Hall
Expand ...


Will never happen with 21 schools. Too many. Big east basketball 7 plus mix of Xavier, Butler, Dayton, Creighton, St. Louis, VCU, Richmond. Maybe 2 others to get to 16? That makes it 14-16 schools and enough to add good OOC games to slate.
 
The 'weakening' of the conference had nothing to do with the hoop schools.

Most of them were of the weak-sister variety in basketball, but even so, the Big East was dying whether the football schools left 'em or stuck with 'em. If anything, the 'good' hoop schools like Georgetown, Nova and Marquette carried their weight. The others were basically dead weight, but so be it.

If anything, you can target the specific schools that voted down Penn State as being the probable architects of the conference's ultimate demise - I think there's a football school or two in that group. Even with Penn State, though, perhaps we come to this point.
 
MCNPA said:
How do you figure the bball schools are entirely at fault for weakening the conference?
Expand ...
I actually think the FB schools are at fault. They let the Catholic schools call the shots and allowed the Commissioner to do what was best for the hoops only schools. The FB schools should have broken off at the very beginning and formed their own conference.

What would a conference of BC, Va Tech, Miami, RU, UCONN, L'ville, Pitt, Syracuse, Cinci, USF, WVU, and maybe Temple look like right now? Maybe most of those schools would have been poached anyway. But I'd think that conference would have been better able to fight for a place in the football world than the crap we ended up with...
 
Fishy said:
The 'weakening' of the conference had nothing to do with the hoop schools.

Most of them were of the weak-sister variety in basketball, but even so, the Big East was dying whether the football schools left 'em or stuck with 'em. If anything, the 'good' hoop schools like Georgetown, Nova and Marquette carried their weight. The others were basically dead weight, but so be it.

If anything, you can target the specific schools that voted down Penn State as being the probable architects of the conference's ultimate demise - I think there's a football school or two in that group. Even with Penn State, though, perhaps we come to this point.
Expand ...

Voting down PSU certainly a mistake in retrospect. So was losing Miami, V-Tech, BC etc. the real mistake was continuously letting the ACC victimize this conference and raid it every time they saw programs they wanted. Ultimately though, those programs left by choice anyway. Still can't pin it on the bball schools who wanted the conference to be held together. It's not their fault that they don't have the limitless state dollars, land and other "perks". That most of the other football schools do.

I'm still pissed that SJU grad Hugh Carey earmarked state dollars to build the god damn Carrier dome! Without that dome, Syracuse would be SUNY bumblefuck playing in the snow, and none of this would ever have happened.. ;-)
 
MCNPA said:
Will never happen with 21 schools. Too many. Big east basketball 7 plus mix of Xavier, Butler, Dayton, Creighton, St. Louis, VCU, Richmond. Maybe 2 others to get to 16? That makes it 14-16 schools and enough to add good OOC games to slate.
Expand ...

I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't think it would be that bad actually. You could def. run with a 20 game schedule. Since a lot of these teams have some sort of out of conference rival, it wouldn't be that bad. That still adds 10 OOC games which can be scheduled against good teams.

La Salle - Philly
St. Joseph's - Philly
Villanova - Philly

Xavier - Cincy
Dayton - Dayton, OH
Duquensne - Pittsburgh
St. Bonaventure - Buffalo (?)

UMass - Mass
RI - Rhode Island
Providence - Providence

GW - DC
Georgetown - DC
Richmond - Richmond
VCU - Richmond

Fordham - NYC
St. John's - NYC
Seton Hall - New Jersey

Marquette - Milwaukee
DePaul - Chicago
Saint Louis - Saint Louis
Butler - Indianapolis
 
.-.
The football schools all saw it better to live with BE as was and work behind the scenes to get out when time was right. It never came to all BE football schools looking out for the "group" as each considered itself part of a confederation to break away when the time was right. VT, BCU and Miami were the 1st (with Fruit crying in its orange peels). The new BE had Fruit still wanting out, sPitt too good for the conference, WV and Rutgers looking at better things Uconn and USF new on the block and Cin and Louisville happy for a step up. At that point the FB schools needed to break away but none of them were willing to leave basketball credits nor forestall possible other conference possibilities (or getting screwed by other members leaving the newly formed FB only conference). Fruit probably working hard at it behind the scenes as likely sPitt, WV and Rutgers.
Uconn got caught out as weakest player in a "look out for myself" game amongst the FB playing teams; the BB members where best served by keeping in control of voting and while having ND in and Uconn/sPitt, Fruit, LV and Cin helped with BB it made BB only schools like Seton Hall, Prov, St Johns extra money for just sitting around.
Uconn has let events play them, now it looks like the light at the end of the tunnel isn't the ACC/Big10 but a nnnBE of FB only schools that are really not of Uconn's chosing. Got to man up and take some responsibility for getting ourselves in this situation and decide what do we do next, not just sit there and take what's given (not discounting that might be the only alternative).
 
Fishy said:
The 'weakening' of the conference had nothing to do with the hoop schools.

Most of them were of the weak-sister variety in basketball, but even so, the Big East was dying whether the football schools left 'em or stuck with 'em. If anything, the 'good' hoop schools like Georgetown, Nova and Marquette carried their weight. The others were basically dead weight, but so be it.

If anything, you can target the specific schools that voted down Penn State as being the probable architects of the conference's ultimate demise - I think there's a football school or two in that group. Even with Penn State, though, perhaps we come to this point.
Expand ...
A conference with Penn State and Miami in the early 90s is significantly stronger than the ACC. It's possible that Florida State would have considered the BE rather than the ACC at that point. Even without FSU, a conference with Penn State and Miami (they've been bad now, but it's hard to overstate how good they were) would have struggled to be pulled apart in 2004--that's really what blew this whole thing up.

Let me also suggest that we would have needed, after Gavitt left, a commissioner who had some sense of football. Unfortunately, that latter thing never happened.
 
MCNPA said:
Voting down PSU certainly a mistake in retrospect. So was losing Miami, V-Tech, BC etc. the real mistake was continuously letting the ACC victimize this conference and raid it every time they saw programs they wanted. Ultimately though, those programs left by choice anyway. Still can't pin it on the bball schools who wanted the conference to be held together. It's not their fault that they don't have the limitless state dollars, land and other "perks". That most of the other football schools do.

I'm still pissed that SJU grad Hugh Carey earmarked state dollars to build the god damn Carrier dome! Without that dome, Syracuse would be SUNY bumble**** playing in the snow, and none of this would ever have happened.. ;-)
Expand ...

Honestly, I don't know what they could have done to prevent the ACC from stealing schools.

Maybe if they had invited Penn State and then having the foresight to invite both FSU and Miami?

Hard to say.

Lord, we are really duck*ed.
 
The milk was spilled a long time ago, and soured and is covered with fungus. There's no point in crying about it now. The reality is that all the original Big East football schools (save Temple) leveraged the league into spots in older, more traditional all sports leagues. Two of the newcomers did as well. So who's left? Two ex CUSA schools and one basketball school that leveraged the league as an accelerated ticket to D1 football. We don't have a lot to bitch about. The league helped UConn build a powerful basketball program, and make the FBS jump. We can't claim to have suffered too much.

The story isn't finished yet. Let's see what else is on tap. Would you rather be a UMass fan? The Big East has been destined to vanish for a year, so we should have seen this coming.
 
HuskyHawk said:
The milk was spilled a long time ago, and soured and is covered with fungus. There's no point in crying about it now. The reality is that all the original Big East football schools (save Temple) leveraged the league into spots in older, more traditional all sports leagues. Two of the newcomers did as well. So who's left? Two ex CUSA schools and one basketball school that leveraged the league as an accelerated ticket to D1 football. We don't have a lot to bitch about. The league helped UConn build a powerful basketball program, and make the FBS jump. We can't claim to have suffered too much.

The story isn't finished yet. Let's see what else is on tap. Would you rather be a UMass fan? The Big East has been destined to vanish for a year, so we should have seen this coming.
Expand ...
The possibility exists for UConn fans to be demoted to UMass fans. We'll still have our memories though. I have tapes from the past and I'll just keep replaying them changing the dates.
 
.-.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,366
Messages
4,568,076
Members
10,471
Latest member
EO2004


Top Bottom