Blaudschun--Catholic Schools Met in NYC...

[Fishy]

The 'weakening' of the conference had nothing to do with the hoop schools.

Most of them were of the weak-sister variety in basketball, but even so, the Big East was dying whether the football schools left 'em or stuck with 'em. If anything, the 'good' hoop schools like Georgetown, Nova and Marquette carried their weight. The others were basically dead weight, but so be it.

If anything, you can target the specific schools that voted down Penn State as being the probable architects of the conference's ultimate demise - I think there's a football school or two in that group. Even with Penn State, though, perhaps we come to this point.

 

[UCONNfan1]

How do you figure the bball schools are entirely at fault for weakening the conference?

I actually think the FB schools are at fault. They let the Catholic schools call the shots and allowed the Commissioner to do what was best for the hoops only schools. The FB schools should have broken off at the very beginning and formed their own conference.

What would a conference of BC, Va Tech, Miami, RU, UCONN, L'ville, Pitt, Syracuse, Cinci, USF, WVU, and maybe Temple look like right now? Maybe most of those schools would have been poached anyway. But I'd think that conference would have been better able to fight for a place in the football world than the crap we ended up with...

 

[MCNPA]

The 'weakening' of the conference had nothing to do with the hoop schools.

Most of them were of the weak-sister variety in basketball, but even so, the Big East was dying whether the football schools left 'em or stuck with 'em. If anything, the 'good' hoop schools like Georgetown, Nova and Marquette carried their weight. The others were basically dead weight, but so be it.

If anything, you can target the specific schools that voted down Penn State as being the probable architects of the conference's ultimate demise - I think there's a football school or two in that group. Even with Penn State, though, perhaps we come to this point.

Voting down PSU certainly a mistake in retrospect. So was losing Miami, V-Tech, BC etc. the real mistake was continuously letting the ACC victimize this conference and raid it every time they saw programs they wanted. Ultimately though, those programs left by choice anyway. Still can't pin it on the bball schools who wanted the conference to be held together. It's not their fault that they don't have the limitless state dollars, land and other "perks". That most of the other football schools do.

I'm still pissed that SJU grad Hugh Carey earmarked state dollars to build the god damn Carrier dome! Without that dome, Syracuse would be SUNY bumblefuck playing in the snow, and none of this would ever have happened.. ;-)

 

[caw]

Will never happen with 21 schools. Too many. Big east basketball 7 plus mix of Xavier, Butler, Dayton, Creighton, St. Louis, VCU, Richmond. Maybe 2 others to get to 16? That makes it 14-16 schools and enough to add good OOC games to slate.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't think it would be that bad actually. You could def. run with a 20 game schedule. Since a lot of these teams have some sort of out of conference rival, it wouldn't be that bad. That still adds 10 OOC games which can be scheduled against good teams.

La Salle - Philly
St. Joseph's - Philly
Villanova - Philly

Xavier - Cincy
Dayton - Dayton, OH
Duquensne - Pittsburgh
St. Bonaventure - Buffalo (?)

UMass - Mass
RI - Rhode Island
Providence - Providence

GW - DC
Georgetown - DC
Richmond - Richmond
VCU - Richmond

Fordham - NYC
St. John's - NYC
Seton Hall - New Jersey

Marquette - Milwaukee
DePaul - Chicago
Saint Louis - Saint Louis
Butler - Indianapolis

 

[Husky68]

The football schools all saw it better to live with BE as was and work behind the scenes to get out when time was right. It never came to all BE football schools looking out for the "group" as each considered itself part of a confederation to break away when the time was right. VT, BCU and Miami were the 1st (with Fruit crying in its orange peels). The new BE had Fruit still wanting out, sPitt too good for the conference, WV and Rutgers looking at better things Uconn and USF new on the block and Cin and Louisville happy for a step up. At that point the FB schools needed to break away but none of them were willing to leave basketball credits nor forestall possible other conference possibilities (or getting screwed by other members leaving the newly formed FB only conference). Fruit probably working hard at it behind the scenes as likely sPitt, WV and Rutgers.
Uconn got caught out as weakest player in a "look out for myself" game amongst the FB playing teams; the BB members where best served by keeping in control of voting and while having ND in and Uconn/sPitt, Fruit, LV and Cin helped with BB it made BB only schools like Seton Hall, Prov, St Johns extra money for just sitting around.
Uconn has let events play them, now it looks like the light at the end of the tunnel isn't the ACC/Big10 but a nnnBE of FB only schools that are really not of Uconn's chosing. Got to man up and take some responsibility for getting ourselves in this situation and decide what do we do next, not just sit there and take what's given (not discounting that might be the only alternative).

 

[tzznandrew]

The 'weakening' of the conference had nothing to do with the hoop schools.

Most of them were of the weak-sister variety in basketball, but even so, the Big East was dying whether the football schools left 'em or stuck with 'em. If anything, the 'good' hoop schools like Georgetown, Nova and Marquette carried their weight. The others were basically dead weight, but so be it.

If anything, you can target the specific schools that voted down Penn State as being the probable architects of the conference's ultimate demise - I think there's a football school or two in that group. Even with Penn State, though, perhaps we come to this point.

A conference with Penn State and Miami in the early 90s is significantly stronger than the ACC. It's possible that Florida State would have considered the BE rather than the ACC at that point. Even without FSU, a conference with Penn State and Miami (they've been bad now, but it's hard to overstate how good they were) would have struggled to be pulled apart in 2004--that's really what blew this whole thing up.

Let me also suggest that we would have needed, after Gavitt left, a commissioner who had some sense of football. Unfortunately, that latter thing never happened.

 

[Fishy]

Voting down PSU certainly a mistake in retrospect. So was losing Miami, V-Tech, BC etc. the real mistake was continuously letting the ACC victimize this conference and raid it every time they saw programs they wanted. Ultimately though, those programs left by choice anyway. Still can't pin it on the bball schools who wanted the conference to be held together. It's not their fault that they don't have the limitless state dollars, land and other "perks". That most of the other football schools do.

I'm still pissed that SJU grad Hugh Carey earmarked state dollars to build the god damn Carrier dome! Without that dome, Syracuse would be SUNY bumble**** playing in the snow, and none of this would ever have happened.. ;-)

Honestly, I don't know what they could have done to prevent the ACC from stealing schools.

Maybe if they had invited Penn State and then having the foresight to invite both FSU and Miami?

Hard to say.

Lord, we are really duck*ed.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The milk was spilled a long time ago, and soured and is covered with fungus. There's no point in crying about it now. The reality is that all the original Big East football schools (save Temple) leveraged the league into spots in older, more traditional all sports leagues. Two of the newcomers did as well. So who's left? Two ex CUSA schools and one basketball school that leveraged the league as an accelerated ticket to D1 football. We don't have a lot to bitch about. The league helped UConn build a powerful basketball program, and make the FBS jump. We can't claim to have suffered too much.

The story isn't finished yet. Let's see what else is on tap. Would you rather be a UMass fan? The Big East has been destined to vanish for a year, so we should have seen this coming.

 

[ctchamps]

The milk was spilled a long time ago, and soured and is covered with fungus. There's no point in crying about it now. The reality is that all the original Big East football schools (save Temple) leveraged the league into spots in older, more traditional all sports leagues. Two of the newcomers did as well. So who's left? Two ex CUSA schools and one basketball school that leveraged the league as an accelerated ticket to D1 football. We don't have a lot to bitch about. The league helped UConn build a powerful basketball program, and make the FBS jump. We can't claim to have suffered too much.

The story isn't finished yet. Let's see what else is on tap. Would you rather be a UMass fan? The Big East has been destined to vanish for a year, so we should have seen this coming.

The possibility exists for UConn fans to be demoted to UMass fans. We'll still have our memories though. I have tapes from the past and I'll just keep replaying them changing the dates.

 

[Waquoit]

Lord, we are really duck*ed.

Do we have any realistic hope?

 

[upstater]

The possibility exists for UConn fans to be demoted to UMass fans. We'll still have our memories though. I have tapes from the past and I'll just keep replaying them changing the dates.

Boise State has a sugar daddy. Does UConn have a sugar daddy? I think basketball will be just fine under Ollie. But can they do what Houston did last year?

 

[huskyharry]

Uggghhh!
Another reason for Coach Ollie to get a long term deal...may be really difficult to attract another coach of anywhere near his abilities given the quagmire that UConn's athletic future is sinking into

 

[Vuce]

If and when this happens and we are on an increasingly isolated island, we have to hear from Warde and Susan at some point. Even if they just confirm what we know: "Uconn fans, we are really ."

Maybe we can be in a conference with Cincy and USF and play them each 6 times. And in hoops we will play them each 14 times.

 

[Dry Tortugas]

"Maybe if they had invited Penn State and then having the foresight to invite both FSU and Miami?

Hard to say."

If you're going to time travel, Gavitt should probably have never invited Syracuse or BC in the first place. They were the ones that demanded football schools be added almost immediately. Maybe we'd still be rolling along as a good hoop conference.

 

[tzznandrew]

The possibility exists for UConn fans to be demoted to UMass fans. We'll still have our memories though. I have tapes from the past and I'll just keep replaying them changing the dates.

When UMass fans start reminiscing about one title, let alone three, then we'll talk about falling to their level.

 

[ctchamps]

When UMass fans start reminiscing about one title, let alone three, then we'll talk about falling to their level.

And the Lebanese still have the Phoenicians on their mantels.

The termination of the BE will be a punch in the gut for me. Or if the BE survives and UConn goes elsewhere it will still be a punch in the gut. But the accomplishments of the basketball program will always be there for me. So events are bittersweet.

So UMass is a bad example. We'll end up being like Johnnies fans.

 

[tzznandrew]

And the Lebanese still have the Phoenicians on their mantels.

The termination of the BE will be a punch in the gut for me. Or if the BE survives and UConn goes elsewhere it will still be a punch in the gut. But the accomplishments of the basketball program will always be there for me. So events are bittersweet.

So UMass is a bad example. We'll end up being like Johnnies fans.

Johnnies' are just as bad.

Look, here are the schools, over the whole history of the NCAA, that have as many or more titles as UConn:

UCLA
Kentucky
Indiana
North Carolina
Duke
Kansas

That's a short list. There are times in history where some of them have been in the wilderness. And if you want to add other schools that have experienced that, with only, say, two titles, add Louisville and Cincy and Michigan State. It's hard to kill those programs off. There are a couple (San Francisco, OSU) that have never fully revived, but even in those scenarios, they won back to back titles, not over the course of 12 years.

The program is resilient, and will get picked up. It would be disastrous if they got stuck in this clusterfuck? Sure. But there's a lot left to play, and they've accomplished enough to eventually get a seat at the big boy table.

 

[JSB60]

I wish UCONN had never become a "football" school and could go with the Catholic league. I admit, I've lost all interest in "bowl subdivision" football because it's ruined basketball. That said, in the long run there will probably be five 16 team superconferences and UCONN will eventually make it into the top 80.

 

[upstater]

I wish UCONN had never become a "football" school and could go with the Catholic league. I admit, I've lost all interest in "bowl subdivision" football because it's ruined basketball. That said, in the long run there will probably be five 16 team superconferences and UCONN will eventually make it into the top 80.

Those Catholic schools are not going to do well. Why would you wish that on UConn?

 

[JSB60]

They'll do just fine as a basketball conference. The Big East had no football in the 80s and had a reasonable amount of success. How many good basketball recruits are actually choosing a school based on the football program, maybe a few, but certainly not so many that an 8-12 school basketball conference will be all that restricted in its talent level.

 

[upstater]

They'll do just fine as a basketball conference. The Big East had no football in the 80s and had a reasonable amount of success. How many good basketball recruits are actually choosing a school based on the football program, maybe a few, but certainly not so many that an 8-12 school basketball conference will be all that restricted in its talent level.

The 80s were a long time ago. Yale football was once ranked in the top 20 during the 1980s.

Basketball-wise, the Catholics went into a deep funk afterward. I just pointed out in another thread that the best of these schools, G'town, made the Final 8 just once over an 18 year period following the 1980s. And why did they come back from the abyss starting around the early to mid 2000s?

UConn held the fort during that period, and these schools started to benefit from UConn's championships, but when Syracuse won a championship and Pitt started playing better, followed by the addition of Louisville, and the fall of the ACC, that's when the talent started flowing back to the Catholic schools.

I expect them to fade if they break off. Fade into oblivion? No. But I don't expect them to occupy my thoughts any more than Xavier does.

 

[freescooter]

The 80s were a long time ago. Yale football was once ranked in the top 20 during the 1980s.

Basketball-wise, the Catholics went into a deep funk afterward. I just pointed out in another thread that the best of these schools, G'town, made the Final 8 just once over an 18 year period following the 1980s. And why did they come back from the abyss starting around the early to mid 2000s?

UConn held the fort during that period, and these schools started to benefit from UConn's championships, but when Syracuse won a championship and Pitt started playing better, followed by the addition of Louisville, and the fall of the ACC, that's when the talent started flowing back to the Catholic schools.

I expect them to fade if they break off. Fade into oblivion? No. But I don't expect them to occupy my thoughts any more than Xavier does.

upstater, for once we agree! They break away and their future is the A-10. Nice basketball league but mostly an afterthought. And $350-400,000 a year compared to $1million plus.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

I wish UCONN had never become a "football" school and could go with the Catholic league. I admit, I've lost all interest in "bowl subdivision" football because it's ruined basketball. That said, in the long run there will probably be five 16 team superconferences and UCONN will eventually make it into the top 80.

Couldn't disagree more. Love UConn basketball, but I wouldn't give up my enjoyment of the entire UConn football experience to put ourselves in the "envious" position of Georgetown or Seton Hall.

 

[huskyharry]

I wish UCONN had never become a "football" school and could go with the Catholic league. I admit, I've lost all interest in "bowl subdivision" football because it's ruined basketball. That said, in the long run there will probably be five 16 team superconferences and UCONN will eventually make it into the top 80.

UConn football is viewed by the college football elite as a Johnny come lately. Coach Edsall led them to a small amount of success, which may never be replicated. The pinnacle of success was being selected for a BCS bowl where they were thrashed by Oklahoma and by most reports actually lost a large sum of $ because their wasn't adequate fan support to buy the required # of tickets. If what most posters here think is the optimum outcome occurs, UConn will land in a new mega ACC or Big Ten. For football this will mean being a perpetual doormat. Sure there will be additional guaranteed cash for the school, but I think the projections and estimates for this are overblown...just like UConn thought going to a BCS bowl would be a cash cow. Is it really an exciting prospect for the football team to perpetually finish in the bottom third of a league and get beaten by 30 points by the top teams?