Big East Transfer Portal Thread v II

[Scot-e]

I'm not sure this is an apples to apples comparison.

We recruited Alleyne to be a component in a program looking to move from consistent to few on their conference/NCAA tournament participant to a team that could make a run at the title (a run which they completed).

I can only imagine that Alleyne was recruited to St John's with the promise of starting and considerable minutes (really, why the hell else would someone with his track record go there?).

Allenyne is an amazing addition to your rotation. We will miss him.

 

[gtcam]

Uh, that is not true at all. All his former players love him. Slazinski thanked Pitino a few days ago for being honest with him the whole time on Instagram. In addition, Pitino had to fill an entire roster. If it were UConn recruiting good players even later in the year, not a single fan on these boards would be virtue signaling about anybody on the team getting recruited over. Uconn signed 4 guard/wings this year. Isn’t that recruiting over Alleyne too?

There are ton of former Lville players who cannot stand the man so it is true. And he has a history of being terribly narcissistic. He also struck out as an NBA coach and was an absolute embarrassment in Boston. His players simply did not respond well to his style.
I don’t remember commenting on his recruiting at St John’s. I questioned Alleyne and any advice he received in joining Ricky in NYC

 

[MCNPA]

There are ton of former Lville players who cannot stand the man so it is true. And he has a history of being terribly narcissistic. He also struck out as an NBA coach and was an absolute embarrassment in Boston. His players simply did not respond well to his style.
I don’t remember commenting on his recruiting at St John’s. I questioned Alleyne and any advice he received in joining Ricky in NYC

Which Louisville players can’t stand him specifically? Quotes please? He has a history of being narcissistic? So was Calhoun, that’s not a crime. He was not a failure at the knicks but did openly say he was not cut out to be a GM-type role at Boston and admitted it. Doesn’t make him failed but he admitted he shouldn’t have taken the role he did and it didn’t work out. You questioned Alleyne’s advice, but I’m not sure why? He has competition at both places, but it’s a personal decision.

 

[MCNPA]

I'm not sure this is an apples to apples comparison.

We recruited Alleyne to be a component in a program looking to move from consistent to few on their conference/NCAA tournament participant to a team that could make a run at the title (a run which they completed).

I can only imagine that Alleyne was recruited to St John's with the promise of starting and considerable minutes (really, why the hell else would someone with his track record go there?).

You can imagine but that’s not the case. All of Pitino’s current and former players will tell you that he promises zero when being recruited. Kids play for Pitino because of his pedigree, but he does not promise kids anything. It’s pretty well-known.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

If it were UConn recruiting good players even later in the year, not a single fan on these boards would be virtue signaling about anybody on the team getting recruited over.

The term "virtue signaling" got invented by people who didn't want to be questioned. It was created in order to aid in defending things that are questionable by putting down the questioners. It sounds better than saying you don't have a problem with what somebody's doing because it creates the appearance that you can avoid taking responsibility if you can just make somebody else look bad. Of course, if you take a closer look, it's pretty clear to see that you're slurring virtue. There's no sleight of hand that can uncouple it.

 

[yungdowork]

I don't really have a problem with Alleyne getting recruited over because, even though it sucks, that's the nature of competing at this level. There was a time last year when his minutes were dropping here too but he started making his shots.

I definitely do have a problem with teams adding extra players on NIL deals that allow them to skirt the scholarship rules. Programs with aggressive boosters and alumni already have a huge advantage, they don't need to be able to horde talent and further dilute the talent pool for the rest of the country. Credit to Pitino for landing some really talented guys, but it just seems like a house of cards to me

 

[caw]

Uh, that is not true at all. All his former players love him. Slazinski thanked Pitino a few days ago for being honest with him the whole time on Instagram. In addition, Pitino had to fill an entire roster. If it were UConn recruiting good players even later in the year, not a single fan on these boards would be virtue signaling about anybody on the team getting recruited over. Uconn signed 4 guard/wings this year. Isn’t that recruiting over Alleyne too?

Very different situation and you know this. This isn't even apples and oranges.

About SJU,

I personally don't really care because SJU players apparently know the deal. As you said, Slazinski signed with SJU in the spring knowing Pitino was going to try and replace him as early as two months later. Gamble on his part that apparently didn't work out.

I wouldn't even blame Pitino if the players didn't know. Again, like you said, he had to fill a full roster (almost) and early on he was taking who he could. It just so happened better players became available and he continued to go after them with NIL past the 13 man scholarship limit. Obviously the players coming in at 14 and 15 weren't scared of 1-13 at their position. Pitino is old and has limited time, he was always going to try and build as strong a roster as possible. The only players that could conceivably complain would be the underclassmen who transferred to SJU, and only if they were lied to by Pitino. The fifth year guys could always bolt if they aren't happy.

 

[MCNPA]

Very different situation and you know this. This isn't even apples and oranges.

About SJU,

I personally don't really care because SJU players apparently know the deal. As you said, Slazinski signed with SJU in the spring knowing Pitino was going to try and replace him as early as two months later. Gamble on his part that apparently didn't work out.

I wouldn't even blame Pitino if the players didn't know. Again, like you said, he had to fill a full roster (almost) and early on he was taking who he could. It just so happened better players became available and he continued to go after them with NIL past the 13 man scholarship limit. Obviously the players coming in at 14 and 15 weren't scared of 1-13 at their position. Pitino is old and has limited time, he was always going to try and build as strong a roster as possible. The only players that could conceivably complain would be the underclassmen who transferred to SJU, and only if they were lied to by Pitino. The fifth year guys could always bolt if they aren't happy.

This is exactly what happened. Slazinski thanked Pitino when he left via Instagram for never lying to him and always being there for him. I believe he helped him getting to wvu as well.

 

[Son of Robert]

Looks to be a big pickup for Xavier.

Xavier, with their incoming class and transfers also, a solid core from last year, will be the team to beat this year in the BIG EAST. Top three for sure. Miller has quickly brought that program to a higher level.

And this is great for the BIG EAST.

 

[KembaKek]

the team to beat this year in the BIG EAST.

the team to beat will be the defending national champions

 

[Hey Adrien!]

Yeah, Akok Akok hasn't announced anything publicly and the Georgetown 2023-24 roster is not officially announced on their website, so there's still mystery on if he will return for his extra year of eligibility or simply move on from college sports.

 

[MDHuskFan]

Yeah, Akok Akok hasn't announced anything publicly and the Georgetown 2023-24 roster is not officially announced on their website, so there's still mystery on if he will return for his extra year of eligibility or simply move on from college sports.

Been a weird WVU rumor floating. Unsure if it’s fan base driven or real smoke

 

[Hey Adrien!]

I can only imagine that Alleyne was recruited to St John's with the promise of starting and considerable minutes (really, why the hell else would someone with his track record go there?).

It could be as simple as a player maximizing his NIL with his last year of eligibility.

Who knows how long players are able to get the bags they are getting this offseason, so since he's got his ring, nothing wrong with maxing out your cash when there is so much uncertainty with players and pro careers.

Plus, who knows what other variables are in play? Perhaps Hurley couldn't promise a similar role w/ two top-40 guards in coming in...honestly, how much PT would Allene get with a starting backcourt of Newton/Spencer/Castle, plus Ball/Diarra off the bench?

Bottom line, there's no validity in saying there was "a promise of starting" as a plausible situation.

 

[Fan1978]

I don't really have a problem with Alleyne getting recruited over because, even though it sucks, that's the nature of competing at this level. There was a time last year when his minutes were dropping here too but he started making his shots.

I definitely do have a problem with teams adding extra players on NIL deals that allow them to skirt the scholarship rules. Programs with aggressive boosters and alumni already have a huge advantage, they don't need to be able to horde talent and further dilute the talent pool for the rest of the country. Credit to Pitino for landing some really talented guys, but it just seems like a house of cards to me

This is a non issue because you barely have pt for a regular roster. Any guys at the end of bench will leave. Everyone wants pt, good luck hording talent

 

[HooperScooper]

Plus, who knows what other variables are in play? Perhaps Hurley couldn't promise a similar role w/ two top-40 guards in coming in...honestly, how much PT would Allene get with a starting backcourt of Newton/Spencer/Castle, plus Ball/Diarra off the bench?

Here's a question. Would Hurley have gone into the portal to get Spencer if Alleyne had stayed? You could make the case for yes and no.

 

[navery12]

Here's a question. Would Hurley have gone into the portal to get Spencer if Alleyne had stayed? You could make the case for yes and no.

I think yes, because we wanted Timberlake even before Alleyne left. Also think it's a moot point, because with the comments Hurley made during the season it was clear there was no scenario Alleyne was coming back next season

 

[Friarsnoop]

I'd say yes, because Spencer is better.

 

[MDHuskFan]

I don't really have a problem with Alleyne getting recruited over because, even though it sucks, that's the nature of competing at this level. There was a time last year when his minutes were dropping here too but he started making his shots.

I definitely do have a problem with teams adding extra players on NIL deals that allow them to skirt the scholarship rules. Programs with aggressive boosters and alumni already have a huge advantage, they don't need to be able to horde talent and further dilute the talent pool for the rest of the country. Credit to Pitino for landing some really talented guys, but it just seems like a house of cards to me

I don’t hate it cause them kids can make a decision and dip out if they don’t like it. See St Johns & their kid that went to WVU

 

[MDHuskFan]

Here's a question. Would Hurley have gone into the portal to get Spencer if Alleyne had stayed? You could make the case for yes and no.

Won’t use Cam as a specific, but I will say that EOY convos probably consist of a recap of next year & a upside, downside and realistic role they see kids playing the following year.

Kids then make a decision from that

 

[yungdowork]

I don’t hate it cause them kids can make a decision and dip out if they don’t like it. See St Johns & their kid that went to WVU

Yeah but it just leads to more kids having to make uninformed decisions, which actively hurts the players. When St. John's landed him in April, there was no shot that Slazinski didn't see somewhat significant minutes based on the notion that they'd have a 13-man roster. By being able to use NIL like they did, that kid ended up having to go back into the portal in mid-late July. WVU is a fine place to end up, but I don't see any way you could argue that he wouldn't have had more suitors if he'd been in the portal before 90% of teams had complete rosters.

 

[navery12]

Yeah but it just leads to more kids having to make uninformed decisions, which actively hurts the players. When St. John's landed him in April, there was no shot that Slazinski didn't see somewhat significant minutes based on the notion that they'd have a 13-man roster. By being able to use NIL like they did, that kid ended up having to go back into the portal in mid-late July. WVU is a fine place to end up, but I don't see any way you could argue that he wouldn't have had more suitors if he'd been in the portal before 90% of teams had complete rosters.

Then if everything you say is true, teams aren't going to be able to fill 15 spots and it all becomes a moot point. If players are as concerned with being recruited over by walk ons with NIL at St John's and Arkansas, recruits won't be willing to commit there.

It's no different than a kid who gets pushed out of the rotation when scholarship 12 or 13 gets filled. Someone has to be making an uninformed decision, it's not possible for every player to be aware of where all 2000 kids in the portal are going to end up, and someone is always going to get screwed over by a decision

 

[yungdowork]

Then if everything you say is true, teams aren't going to be able to fill 15 spots and it all becomes a moot point. If players are as concerned with being recruited over by walk ons with NIL at St John's and Arkansas, recruits won't be willing to commit there.

It's no different than a kid who gets pushed out of the rotation when scholarship 12 or 13 gets filled. Someone has to be making an uninformed decision, it's not possible for every player to be aware of where all 2000 kids in the portal are going to end up, and someone is always going to get screwed over by a decision

I'm sure Ledlum is getting a bag on top of school, but it's pretty plainly using NIL to exploit scholarship limits. I don't think you'd see programs carrying essentially 15 scholarship guys every year, I think you'd see programs with wealthy alumni using it as a get out of jail free card after they underachieved, and particularly after they fired their coach. Maybe recruits would stop committing there, but in the NIL era, money has a lot of pull, and the schools that would be able to take advantage have the deepest pockets.

Programs push guys out all the time, but giving schools additional flexibility regarding scholarship limits allows them to fast-track roster turnover, which, to me, isn't a good thing for student-athletes. Over time, it may well work itself out, but I just don't really see the point of letting a pretty obvious loophole exist in the mean time.

 

[navery12]

I'm sure Ledlum is getting a bag on top of school, but it's pretty plainly using NIL to exploit scholarship limits. I don't think you'd see programs carrying essentially 15 scholarship guys every year, I think you'd see programs with wealthy alumni using it as a get out of jail free card after they underachieved, and particularly after they fired their coach. Maybe recruits would stop committing there, but in the NIL era, money has a lot of pull, and the schools that would be able to take advantage have the deepest pockets.

Programs push guys out all the time, but giving schools additional flexibility regarding scholarship limits allows them to fast-track roster turnover, which, to me, isn't a good thing for student-athletes. Over time, it may well work itself out, but I just don't really see the point of letting a pretty obvious loophole exist in the mean time.

You're entirely missing the point, again. Playing time is the biggest factor for these kids, and there is a finite amount of playing time available. St John's can bring in 5 players or they can bring in 25 players, they still have 200 minutes to offer. And at a certain point no matter how much money Mike Repole offers, kids are going to stop going to St John's because there's not enough minutes available.

You're looking at this as a loophole and teams exploiting a rule when it's not, it's just simply college basketball. UConn did the same thing in 2012 and nobody here batted an eye. UConn did the same thing last year (albeit on a much smaller scale) and nobody batted an eye.

This isn't a new development, schools have always had the ability to turn over a roster as fast as any coach wants, that's the consequence of year by year scholarships. Just because it's done semi-publicly now instead of a conversation in a back room about pulling a scholarship doesn't mean it's new. The only difference is now the athletes aren't screwed over and being forced to sit a year when it happens

 

[auror]

You're entirely missing the point, again. Playing time is the biggest factor for these kids, and there is a finite amount of playing time available. St John's can bring in 5 players or they can bring in 25 players, they still have 200 minutes to offer. And at a certain point no matter how much money Mike Repole offers, kids are going to stop going to St John's because there's not enough minutes available.

You're looking at this as a loophole and teams exploiting a rule when it's not, it's just simply college basketball. UConn did the same thing in 2012 and nobody here batted an eye. UConn did the same thing last year (albeit on a much smaller scale) and nobody batted an eye.

This isn't a new development, schools have always had the ability to turn over a roster as fast as any coach wants, that's the consequence of year by year scholarships. Just because it's done semi-publicly now instead of a conversation in a back room about pulling a scholarship doesn't mean it's new. The only difference is now the athletes aren't screwed over and being forced to sit a year when it happens

Yeah the "loophole" is a self-solving problem for two reasons:

1) Players want playing time to prove themselves in order to make the NBA and get $. Small sums won't be enough to jeopardize future development big $ NBA money by sitting on the bench at a big school.
2) The people paying the players (who could conceivably pay enough $ for players to not care about #1) want performance and aren't going to give big $ for players who aren't even projected to play minutes. They're businessmen and the like and that's a waste of $.

 

[yungdowork]

You're entirely missing the point, again. Playing time is the biggest factor for these kids, and there is a finite amount of playing time available. St John's can bring in 5 players or they can bring in 25 players, they still have 200 minutes to offer. And at a certain point no matter how much money Mike Repole offers, kids are going to stop going to St John's because there's not enough minutes available.

You're looking at this as a loophole and teams exploiting a rule when it's not, it's just simply college basketball. UConn did the same thing in 2012 and nobody here batted an eye. UConn did the same thing last year (albeit on a much smaller scale) and nobody batted an eye.

This isn't a new development, schools have always had the ability to turn over a roster as fast as any coach wants, that's the consequence of year by year scholarships. Just because it's done semi-publicly now instead of a conversation in a back room about pulling a scholarship doesn't mean it's new. The only difference is now the athletes aren't screwed over and being forced to sit a year when it happens

I don't think this is an issue that is changing the face of college basketball, I just don't think NIL intended to provide an additional mechanism for schools to turnover rosters, and wouldn't mind seeing it nipped in the bud. I'm a big fan of the new transfer rules specifically because they allow players to have more control over their future. I am not a fan of this situation because I think it creates additional uncertainty around kids' futures too late in the portal process, specifically when you look at multiple de-commitments directly related to programs doing this happening in the last few weeks. I'm okay if you don't think it's a big issue, I can even admit I might be overthinking it, but I still don't like it.

St. John's, in my opinion, is actually looking like a really solid example of using that extra roster flexibility to their advantage. They landed a former top 50 recruit, and a guy who averaged 19ppg last year, who can hopefully re-stabilize their program, as their 14th and 15th guy at the time. If they have a successful year, they won't need all the roster turnover, and all is well again next year.

Given all of the advantages that NIL provides to schools, I don't personally think it should also be dictating the amount of roster flexibility programs have moving forward, even if it doesn't dramatically shift the competitive landscape. If a mid-major isn't capable of offering a potential transfer because they're at the scholarship limit, I don't think it's right that a team from a major conference could theoretically circumvent that limit so easily.