Big East expansion exercise approaching 2025…
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FriarJ
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They do but they are a 20 minute flight to Seattle then a direct flight to all their opponents. I have been on many flights to and from Spokane with Gonzaga sports teams. Chicago, Newark, NYC, DC, Philly, Boston (PC, UConn) Milwaukee, Cincy, are all direct from Seattle. Omaha is probably 2 flights from Seattle. Although you can fly to Denver from Spokane. All these flights are long.
Anyway it’s doable for men’s and women’s basketball but all the other sports would require a Fox or ESPN to pay a conference to take Gonzaga’s other sports.
UC1995
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Losing teams like Texas and Oklahoma seriously cuts down on eyeballs when it comes to BIG 12 games on television. Over time the memories of these schools will fade into a mediocre UCF and Houston team. Cincy might be the only one to come out of this as long as Fickell stays around (which he may now). Cincy is a nice story but not someone you hang your conference hopes on.
Money is going to drop for the BIG 12 to below 12 million. Depends on how much they need content.
Money is going to really drop for the AAC. Talking below 5 million no way they keep paying what is left (football schools are gone) and any team they bring in for the short and long term won't bring anything to the table. They are not going to pay for possible growth.
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The men's and women's basketball teams at Gonzaga take charter flights. So no issue there. But I'm guessing the non-revenue sports don't, so as you mentioned that would be an issue.
How Gonzaga travels: Behind-the-scenes look at how the Bulldogs take to the sky
Most college basketball teams fly to games. Commercially. In the same planes we all do. But one of the perks of playing for one of the nation’s elite college basketball programs is traveling on privately chartered jets. That rarefied company includes Gonzaga.
www.spokesman.com
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Big 12 sold tier 3 rights in package to ESPN for streaming on plus
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UConn was a different story.
Zissou "advocated" for a UConn program that just had 3 straight losing seasons in the AAC.
That's a different scenario than an in-tact Kansas, who is not far removed from a Final Four, and who just saw their conference mate (Baylor) with the National Championship in a blowout over the other team you're pimping, Gonzaga.
The Big 12 is also not "a top 4 conference like the NBE." (The Big 12 is the Top 1.)
Kansas is a founding member of the Big 12 Conference (one of the Original Big 8). Why would they leave the Conference they founded and their rivals at KSU, Baylor, OSU, ISU, etc, to be an outlier in a far-flung NBE.
The NBE has only been around for 8 years, and barely has a lengthy history with the 10 founders. Why would Kansas see any stability in a fledgling league?
Big East Conference - Wikipedia
Perhaps the OBE would've had more lure with Notre Dame, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville, but that ship has sailed.
Big East Conference (1979–2013) - Wikipedia
(This is about the former league that played from 1979 to 2013. For its successor football-playing league, see American Athletic Conference. For the current league of the same name, see Big East Conference.)
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Why, why, why? The answer is still money and a stable path forward to a basketball-first athletic dept.
Founding members of the Big 8 - only Kansas remains.
Final members of the Big 8 that founded the Big 12, only four remain, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and Oklahoma State. “Although the Big 12 was essentially the Big Eight plus the four Texas schools, the Big 12 regards itself as a separate conference and does not claim the Big Eight's history as its own.” The higher football profile schools were poached - Missouri, Oklahoma, Colorado, and Nebraska.
Of the four Texas schools that joined the Big 8 schools to form the Big 12 in the late 1990s (17 years after the start of the Big East), the 2 highest profile programs were poached by the SEC - A&M and Texas.
There is certainly a perspective that Kansas has been “left behind”, and their next TV deal will show that. It does remain a solid basketball conference, albeit in less attractive markets than the Big East.
Nova joined the Big East in 1980, year 2 of the conference. Of the original first 8 Big East lineup, we today have Georgetown, St Johns, Providence, Seton Hall, UConn, and Nova. Only BC and Cuse are gone from the first 8. 6 of the first 8 are intact in the Big East today.
(For those keeping score on religious affiliation, there were 2 schools in the original founding members that were not Catholic, and there are 2 schools in the conference today that are not Catholic. Also, there was one public school in the founding members, and the same one public member in the current membership).
The new Big 12 has twice as many former C-USA programs than the Big East. Kansas has good reason to feel it is in a diluted Big 12.
Since the CR with the American - Big East split, zero teams have left the Big East.
I think you were touting the founding member angle in the perspective of stability and tradition. The Big East has as much claim to its origins as any conference, and more so than the Big 12
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I like the Big Ten - Big East (plus Kansas) scenario more…
But in the Big East expansion with Kansas plus schools that follow scenario:
East 8: UConn, Providence, St Johns, Seton Hall, Nova, Georgetown, Temple, Cincy.
West 8: Marquette, DePaul, X, Butler, Creighton, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State.
That’s a very reasonable footprint for Kansas, and also for the rest of the conference.
Two games in region and one game across region in the annual schedule.
Adding Kansas is enough of an incentive to expand and add the other programs (and give up the full double round robin schedule). Without Kansas, expansion is dilution, so just stand pat.
But in the Big East expansion with Kansas plus schools that follow scenario:
East 8: UConn, Providence, St Johns, Seton Hall, Nova, Georgetown, Temple, Cincy.
West 8: Marquette, DePaul, X, Butler, Creighton, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State.
That’s a very reasonable footprint for Kansas, and also for the rest of the conference.
Two games in region and one game across region in the annual schedule.
Adding Kansas is enough of an incentive to expand and add the other programs (and give up the full double round robin schedule). Without Kansas, expansion is dilution, so just stand pat.
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Big 12 basketball is Kansas. Baylor had a great year and went it’s first Final Four in over 70 years and earned its title, but Kansas has dominated the Big 12 conference like no other team in modern history.
Kansas has won 19 of the 30 conference titles in the entire history of the Big 12. Even Kentucky in the bottom heavy SEC can’t match that record over that time period.
I’d expect Creighton, X, and Marquette to be more competitive at the top of the Big East West with Kansas over the next 10 years than the rest of the Big 12 with Kansas over the last 10 years. And that’s only in the West. Kansas would be just another blue blood among peers when it came East!
Kansas has won 19 of the 30 conference titles in the entire history of the Big 12. Even Kentucky in the bottom heavy SEC can’t match that record over that time period.
I’d expect Creighton, X, and Marquette to be more competitive at the top of the Big East West with Kansas over the next 10 years than the rest of the Big 12 with Kansas over the last 10 years. And that’s only in the West. Kansas would be just another blue blood among peers when it came East!
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The Big 12 distributed $345 million to its 10 members this year ($34.5 million apiece), down from the previous year because of the pandemic. Most of that revenue comes from the Big 12′s TV deals, including ESPN & FOX.
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Almost as good as Villanova in the NEWBIE. Texas Tech was runner up in 2019. Baylor won last year. Kansas is a power. Ok State is generally solid. The NWEBIE is on inch deep. The true power conferences are multiple teams deep. Would it be good for the NOOB to get Gonzaga? Sure. It would bring a marquee program. But it would present a huge logistical nightmare and make a farce of everything the NOOB claims it represents. The second point I know Is out of fashion, but the first is crazy problem.
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The Big 12 has one school with multiple modern day (since ‘80) titles. Kansas has 2. In the Big East UConn has 4 and Nova has 3.
They are both good basketball conferences. Both top 4.
Texas Tech? Who finished runner up in the American League last year?
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The B12 has multiple nationally competitive teams. It is far deeper than the NOOB. It just is. Right now the NOOB has 1, Villanova. UConn hasn’t been relevant on the national scene since 2014. If it doesn’t make a deep run in the next year or 2 it very likely becomes Indiana. Remember when Indiana was good? In the NEWBIE there is Villanova, maybe UConn and a bunch of interchangeable parts. But here’s the thing. If one of those parts gets hot, the coach will be on a different sideline the next season Unless he is damaged goods. Even then he might be.
Look, in my view, and it used to be the view of most UConn fans, getting to the NCAA tournament isn’t success. It is the minimum expected. As a Villanova fan you really ought to understand that.
Seton Hall, Providence, those other jokers, they don’t view it that way. In the late 1990s after going to the Elite 8 in 1990, 95 and 98 there was a movement to oust Jim Calhoun. After the 2006 disaster there was a smaller But similar movement because he “might be past his prime.” If Seton Hall did that they’d rename the school. That applies to all the rest, too. Well, except DePaul. They consider getting to .500 a success.
Look, in my view, and it used to be the view of most UConn fans, getting to the NCAA tournament isn’t success. It is the minimum expected. As a Villanova fan you really ought to understand that.
Seton Hall, Providence, those other jokers, they don’t view it that way. In the late 1990s after going to the Elite 8 in 1990, 95 and 98 there was a movement to oust Jim Calhoun. After the 2006 disaster there was a smaller But similar movement because he “might be past his prime.” If Seton Hall did that they’d rename the school. That applies to all the rest, too. Well, except DePaul. They consider getting to .500 a success.
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I hate to say it, but @freescooter is practically inarguably right that the Big 12 is far deeper than the Big East. They'll probably have years when 10 teams make the tourney.
Everything else he posts is dead-horse-beating drivel.
Everything else he posts is dead-horse-beating drivel.
shizzle787
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There is no way they will ever get 10. With a likely 20 game schedule, they will probably get around 7 max.
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Good and informative article thanks for posting it. Note that it also takes at least an hour to get from Storrs to the airport. So add that on to the at least 2 flights to get to Spokane. Hence, at least a 6+ hour trip while flying commercially. The Zags would still have a 5+ hour experience to play at Gampel and a 4.5+ hr experience to play in Hartford.The men's and women's basketball teams at Gonzaga take charter flights. So no issue there. But I'm guessing the non-revenue sports don't, so as you mentioned that would be an issue.
How Gonzaga travels: Behind-the-scenes look at how the Bulldogs take to the sky
Most college basketball teams fly to games. Commercially. In the same planes we all do. But one of the perks of playing for one of the nation’s elite college basketball programs is traveling on privately chartered jets. That rarefied company includes Gonzaga.
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I guess I shouldn't have brought that up, as it doesn't have to be true for my point to still be valid. Let me rephrase: I expect the Big 12 to have more teams in the tournament than the Big East most years.
Hondo 77
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Why would Fox pay Kansas $6 million for its football rights? And who would Kansas be playing? That's just nuts.
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To get the value on the basketball.
Kansas State, Iowa State, Missouri, Colorado, etc.
shizzle787
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We can't get any teams from the P5 or MW so I would argue we should add the following three schools if we can:
1. Gonzaga
2. Wichita State
3. St. Mary's
All three of these schools traditionally tend to perform in the OOC portion of their schedules, which is exactly what we need.
I get Wichita State isn't a Catholic school but they are a solid basketball brand. I have a feeling that the major leagues will be going to a 22-game schedule in the not so distant future so it is in our best interest to go past 12 teams to maximize bids.
If we are able to get these three schools, I would argue a) we would be an 8-bid league most years and b) we could claim to be the #1 in the country a few years out of the decade.
1. Gonzaga
2. Wichita State
3. St. Mary's
All three of these schools traditionally tend to perform in the OOC portion of their schedules, which is exactly what we need.
I get Wichita State isn't a Catholic school but they are a solid basketball brand. I have a feeling that the major leagues will be going to a 22-game schedule in the not so distant future so it is in our best interest to go past 12 teams to maximize bids.
If we are able to get these three schools, I would argue a) we would be an 8-bid league most years and b) we could claim to be the #1 in the country a few years out of the decade.
pepband99
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The 2 pacific time zone teams are no's, for obvious reasons.
Wichita? Why would the BE need another Butler? Good coach leaves and it all goes to @%@%#$15!$!. As per Butler, they have a nice gym. Provides Creighton one easy trip. What else?
dennismenace
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Greater Pittsburgh TV audience. Which is why Pitt was desirable to the Big East from the beginning. Also recruiting exposure in western Pa and eastern Ohio.
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Gonzaga, sure, long shot but they'd help. Wichita State and St Mary's you're out of your mind. We left the American to go to a better basketball conference, not try to recreate it from scratch
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Sir, Butler is in Indianapolis.
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pepband99
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bendm
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keep in mind shizzle said we should play harvard, yale, and princeton EVERY year....he's got some crazy ideas.
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I think the travel thing is a bit overrated when you already have schools like Creighton, Depaul, Xavier, Butler and Marquette in the BE. All require a plane ride. What's really the difference between getting on a plane for 3 hours to travel to a game vs. 5 hours (other than 2 hours). And there's certainly a way to do this. All the East Coast schools do a Gonzaga/Creighton back to back. The Pac12 has been scheduling like this for years.
Wait wait... hold on. How much do you travel and is it ever to the midwest? You have to get your times and distances right first before you evaluate this.
Cincy, Indy, Chicago, Milwaukee are all 2-2.5 hr charter flights from NYC (I'm assuming Hartford is like, 10 min different at most??) Spokane is minimum 3 times the distance. While it doesn't mean the flight is 3 times longer, you have to figure it's 6+ hours.
Knowing that, do you want to ask your question again? Do you think there's a difference between riding a plane for 2-2.5 hrs vs 6-6.5 hrs? I sure think there is. Especially for people who are vertically blessed!
I have mixed feelings on the distance and generally think it could work, but still have concerns about the olympic sports. But knowing the above has a big impact on how I feel about it. if it was only 3 hours vs 5 I don't think it would be a big of a deal.
nelsonmuntz
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UMass - Some basketball history, Big East could use a school in Massachusetts, UMass has a big alumni base in the northeast, school is on the rise academically, this move would easily box the ACC out of any relevance in the northeast, and hopefully put another nail in the BCU abomination of an athletic program. UMass is one of the few available programs in the footprint that could help with a TV and streaming contract.
Also, if UConn ever wants to be called up to a P5 conference, it would help if Syracuse's and BCU's athletic programs were ground into dust.
Also, if UConn ever wants to be called up to a P5 conference, it would help if Syracuse's and BCU's athletic programs were ground into dust.
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