Big East expansion exercise approaching 2025…

[MU in MKE]

St. John's and Syracuse (I think) we're initially against inviting UConn, but Gavitt insisted on their inclusion, both because of his close relationship with Dee Rowe and others there, and because he believed they could be a national power with the right coach. Once again, he was right.

Gavitt was a visionary and built something really special. The BE never would have become what it was if almost anyone else had tried.

One thing many people here will come to learn is that Val is a savvy commissioner and quite the visionary herself. How she's handled this conference since the split has been exceptional and she absolutely knows what she's doing. UConn fans unfamiliar will realize this soon enough. Based on how she's run things so far, whatever happens with expansion or no expansion, I trust Val to make the right decision.

 

[aburks41]

I'm generally with you, but I think it is a misrepresentation to say that our recruits cited Big East rivalries as a reason for choosing UConn. I've read many comments from commits who said that being in the Big East was a major selling point, but I assume they are referring to national TV coverage, geography, etc., and not rivalries. If I missed something, I'm happy to be wrong.

The rivalries you have in your conference matters just as much as TV and geography. UConn still had decent tv exposure in the AAC, but we couldn't sell kids on playing against teams that we had no history with. You sell them on playing old rivals like Nova, Gtown, PC, Seton Hall, etc...when a kid says UConn being in the BE made all the difference when committing, it's not just because of geography - I can promise you that

 

[SoFla Steve]

I agree. The NCAA convention could very well lower the threshold for the number of sports needed to be D-1 while keeping the barrier to entry of a conference invitation. They could also allow football-only conferences at the FBS level.

I absolutely believe this is coming . . . and I think it's coming a lot sooner than I originally thought it would.

 

[Guapo]

I absolutely believe this is coming . . . and I think it's coming a lot sooner than I originally thought it would.

And it’s a very good thing!

 

[CL82]

St. John's and Syracuse (I think) we're initially against inviting UConn, but Gavitt insisted on their inclusion, both because of his close relationship with Dee Rowe and others there, and because he believed they could be a national power with the right coach. Once again, he was right.

Connecticut was a founding member of the Big East. I guess there could’ve been informal discussions prior to invites actually going out, but we were there from day one.

 

[BapeKidd88]

And it’s a very good thing!

A FB-only FBS conference is intriguing. I think it would need programs to make the investment to FBS to fill it (perhaps Delaware, Villanova, Rhody, Georgetown).
If the P5 ever splits, I think you almost have to do this.

 

[HooperScooper]

This thread:

 

[Lynyrd]

St. Bonaventure is the only team worth considering … the Bonnies deserve a shot simply by the fact that they were the only team I saw come in and kick Calhoun’s ass. If you can do that then you’ve earned my vote.

 

[TJT]

I am not advocating anything. The record however is that the old and new Big East conferences have actually taken SEVEN members directly from the Eastern-8/A-10 over time:

OBE
Villanova
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Rutgers
Va Tech

NBE
Xavier
Butler

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Agree with a lot of your logic ^, except when it comes to conference realignment we owe no one any favors.

Nope UConn was always invited, but HC did have an invite and turned it down.

True but it’s become an urban legend
Actually, Rutgers for sure and possibly Nova who was locked into big the big 5.
rejected bids. Not everyone believed Gavitt’s dream would be successful.
Of course after the fact it’s success becomes a no brainer.
Success has a million fathers and failure is an orphan.
I think the rise of cable and ESPN coincided with its formation and contributed to its success.
Remember all these schools were Indy’s in a loss affiliation called the ECAC. The Yankees Conference was long gone.

 

[Zissou]

You seriously think Kansas would leave Baylor to play Creighton? leave Texas Tech to play DePaul?? leave Houston to play Seton Hall? leave Oklahoma State to play UConn? leave Iowa State to play Butler? leave Kansas State to play Xavier? leave TCU to play St Johns? leave Cincinnati to play Providence? leave BYU to play Marquette? etc, etc

I realize that Eddie Sutton isn't at Oklahoma State anymore, but Mike Boynton is still bringing in dudes like Cade Cunningham.

If the Big 12 is "diluted" with the roster it has, why would you think former A10, MVC, CUSA, etc, teams in the new big east aren't more diluted than that?

The Big 12 has the reigning national champions and their updated roster is still rated by Kenpom as the #1 conference after realignment. I just don't see why Kansas would leave Group A for Group E, F, G?

Might Kansas leave its old schedule for the new one? Maybe. Why? money.

Is the Big 12 value diluted? You make a good case for the basketball schedule, but that completely missed the point. The current TV value is based on football with Texas and Oklahoma as the marquee teams. The B12 going forward is diluted, in football stature and TV value. The payout will drop, and that is a certainty.

That creates an opportunity to attract Kansas. Overpay Kansas. It’s only 1 program, not overpaying every program in a conference. I’m not saying it’s probable, only possible.

Why might they leave? Money. For the right deal. The future of the Big 12 is uncertain.

 

[CL82]

Might Kansas leave its old schedule for the new one? Maybe. Why? money.

Is the Big 12 value diluted? You make a good case for the basketball schedule, but that completely missed the point. The current TV value is based on football with Texas and Oklahoma as the marquee teams. The B12 going forward is diluted, in football stature and TV value. The payout will drop, and that is a certainty.

That creates an opportunity to attract Kansas. Overpay Kansas. It’s only 1 program, not overpaying every program in a conference. I’m not saying it’s probable, only possible.

Why might they leave? Money. For the right deal. The future of the Big 12 is uncertain.

Do you believe the new Big East deal will be better than the new big 12 deal? Because I feel like there’s a wager in there somewhere.

 

[CashewCrew]

Do you believe the new Big East deal will be better than the new big 12 deal? Because I feel like there’s a wager in there somewhere.

The Big12's TV deal is probably 80% football money, 20% basketball - like all "Power conferences" with football. So it's really hard to say. It does go to show that the Big East Basketball is pretty valuable as is, and will probably get a nice pay bump in 2025.

 

[CL82]

The Big12's TV deal is probably 80% football money, 20% basketball - like all "Power conferences" with football. So it's really hard to say. It does go to show that the Big East Basketball is pretty valuable as is, and will probably get a nice pay bump in 2025.

Yep, and on an absolute basis it will be significantly higher than the big east basketball only deal. Given that, it’s pretty unlikely that Kansas would leave the big 12 for a dramatic pay cut.

On a net basis the big east conference media deal is higher than the American’s deal even though it includes football. It will be interesting to see what the new deal is for the BE. If it is even 10 million per school, I will be surprised.

 

[superjohn]

Might Kansas leave its old schedule for the new one? Maybe. Why? money.

Is the Big 12 value diluted? You make a good case for the basketball schedule, but that completely missed the point. The current TV value is based on football with Texas and Oklahoma as the marquee teams. The B12 going forward is diluted, in football stature and TV value. The payout will drop, and that is a certainty.

That creates an opportunity to attract Kansas. Overpay Kansas. It’s only 1 program, not overpaying every program in a conference. I’m not saying it’s probable, only possible.

Why might they leave? Money. For the right deal. The future of the Big 12 is uncertain.

The money isn't there for Kansas to move to the Big East but I don't think the Big 12 will exist down the road. I bunch of stuff is going to happen before 2025.

 

[98Uconn]

For those thinking Kansas would leave the B12 for NBE, I propose an equally likely scenario.
The NBE forces the University of Scranton to go D1. They are Jesuit so the Catholics will be happy and they will bring in legions of dedicated fans of the show "The Office". This will greatly increase the number of eyeballs on the league and drive hoards of fans to Scranton thereby increasing the Fox payout.
Of course, they will have to change their name from "The Royals" to the "University of Scranton Dundering Mifflens" for marketing purposes.
Heck, maybe they can join along with Kansas.

 

[Pudge]

Back to Gonzaga

Look at the map. That Program - NOW - is more than just Mark Few. Years ago, we played them in Seattle at the Key Arena. They have a significant and growing fanbase; and Yes ... it goes to the bigger cities of Seattle, Portland, etc. Then the exit of BYU gives them SEVEN California schools and lowly Portland. They have outkicked the coverage. There is little reason - money, television, competition, affinity - remaining in that WCC. That's the real story. What are you going to say to refute that - Saint Mary's? It is basically the MAAC West Coast; and the Siena-Marist-Fairfield all are good comps to LMU - Pepperdine - San Francisco. Only Pacific & Santa Clara are significantly better academics.

They could be BB + Olympics with Pac 12 or MWC. I doubt they match the desired profile of the former. It is not outlandish to talk BE; that needs to be addressed on the TV and mileage.

Then. It is more likely UAlbany and Stony Brook feel envy of other SUNY school Buffalo. And desire for better stadiums and higher aspirations for football. You won't hear that for Georgetown or Villanova. Delaware has the chops and never ever consider the next level. I think James Madison is soon FBS. And I feel Towson has a chance to gear up as well.

 

[BapeKidd88]

I am not advocating anything. The record however is that the old and new Big East conferences have actually taken SEVEN members directly from the Eastern-8/A-10 over time:

OBE
Villanova
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Rutgers
Va Tech

NBE
Xavier
Butler

I think the A10 is the ONLY pool. (relatively)

The game has changed to such a degree. UConn will never be in a conference, again, with any other large well-known state public - unless its name is UMass.

Those days are over.

The paradigm going forward is the smaller (more often than not Jusuit) private school teams. I just don't see the game of musical chairs unraveling. There are no rational scenarios going back to the Syracuses, Pitts, WVUs, Cincinnatis, Houstons, etc.

OTOH, the pool of religious schools is still pretty deep to stock any conference pond UConn wants to fish at.

 

[freescooter]

Ummm, no. Realignment within the BE just won't work that way. One factor alone is the resolve of the Catholic schools. And sorry, but Providence and Seton Hall are much more important than LaSalle and Holy Cross.

Holy Cross and LaSalle have national championships. Look Providence was a big deal in college basketball from the 1950s through the Eighties roughly. Since then they have been marginally better than your average A10 program. Same with Seton Hall. Zero juice. That’s reality. Tell me honestly that if you were creating a basketball conference you would select either one if you wanted to be a power conference. You wouldn’t and you know it. It’s 2021, not 1965.
Yes the Catholic Schools are a huge problem. The decisions that really need to be made won’t be because they like pretending they are important like they were in the Sixties. College sports have moved in a different direction Single purpose non-football leagues are for mid majors. Yes I know the NEWBIE is technically an all sports league but honestly nobody even the presidents don’t give 2 hoots about other sports.

 

[Zissou]

Do you believe the new Big East deal will be better than the new big 12 deal? Because I feel like there’s a wager in there somewhere.

No because the Big 12 deal is a football deal.

But, if Fox was willing to overpay Kansas for its football if it joined the Big East, the money is possible. What do you think the per team payout will be for the next Big 12 contract?

 

[CL82]

No because the Big 12 deal is a football deal.

But, if Fox was willing to overpay Kansas for its football if it joined the Big East, the money is possible. What do you think the per team payout will be for the next Big 12 contract?

Exactly why would Kansas give that up? For that matter, why would Fox overpay for Kansas football? It's crap.

I don't know but I've heard about $25M for the Little 12 deal.

 

[Zissou]

To get the value of Kansas in the Big East.

eSPN has primary rights to the Big 12.

 

[Friarsnoop]

Connecticut was a founding member of the Big East. I guess there could’ve been informal discussions prior to invites actually going out, but we were there from day one.

I know they were. I was talking about the formation discussions.

 

[freescooter]

A FB-only FBS conference is intriguing. I think it would need programs to make the investment to FBS to fill it (perhaps Delaware, Villanova, Rhody, Georgetown).
If the P5 ever splits, I think you almost have to do this.

Oh good lord. Rhody was going to downgrade to the NEC Georgetown doesn’t give football scholarships. Delaware has said no 50 times.

 

[freescooter]

Exactly why would Kansas give that up? For that matter, why would Fox overpay for Kansas football? It's crap.

I don't know but I've heard about $25M for the Little 12 deal.

Even if it’s $15, the worst number I’ve heard, it is still way better than The $5 the Newbie gets.