Big East expansion exercise approaching 2025…

[McLovin]

A FB-only FBS conference is intriguing. I think it would need programs to make the investment to FBS to fill it (perhaps Delaware, Villanova, Rhody, Georgetown).
If the P5 ever splits, I think you almost have to do this.

Dude, are you okay?

 

[How Sway?!]

Even if it’s $15, the worst number I’ve heard, it is still way better than The $5 the Newbie gets.

The Big 12 gets $22 Million per school for TV. The commissioner said, on record, that Oklahoma and Texas leaving will cause the TV deal to fall by %50, meaning that the new deal will land somewheere around $12 million per school.

 

[Hoophound]

The Big 12 gets $22 Million per school for TV. The commissioner said, on record, that Oklahoma and Texas leaving will cause the TV deal to fall by %50, meaning that the new deal will land somewheere around $12 million per school.

That was without additions. Cincinnati is seriously threatening to win a national championship. Things may break in such a way that the B12 survives as a power conference.

 

[How Sway?!]

That was without additions. Cincinnati is seriously threatening to win a national championship. Things may break in such a way that the B12 survives as a power conference.

Ok, let's say they only lose %30 of value. That's still only $15 million at best.

 

[Zissou]

Even if it’s $15, the worst number I’ve heard, it is still way better than The $5 the Newbie gets.

Correct. As I’ve said, Fox would have to overpay Kansas just for its Indy football to grease its entrance into the Big East.

ESPN is the primary TV contract for the Newbie 12, so Fox would be plucking the prime basketball program from them. ESPN played a strong hand in trying to crush the Big East. Fox was a savior. It would be a sweet turn on ESPN.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Holy Cross and LaSalle have national championships. Look Providence was a big deal in college basketball from the 1950s through the Eighties roughly. Since then they have been marginally better than your average A10 program. Same with Seton Hall. Zero juice. That’s reality. Tell me honestly that if you were creating a basketball conference you would select either one if you wanted to be a power conference. You wouldn’t and you know it. It’s 2021, not 1965.
Yes the Catholic Schools are a huge problem. The decisions that really need to be made won’t be because they like pretending they are important like they were in the Sixties. College sports have moved in a different direction Single purpose non-football leagues are for mid majors. Yes I know the NEWBIE is technically an all sports league but honestly nobody even the presidents don’t give 2 hoots about other sports.

Lol - what decades did Holy Cross and LaSalle win their NC's? The 40's and 50's - like 70 years ago. You are deluded about those program comparisons.

 

[Slasher]

Ok, let's say they only lose %30 of value. That's still only $15 million at best.

So many bad assumptions. The "new" big 12 is losing it's two most valuable entities, but it's gaining four teams -- which means more inventory. There's also a potential new bidder on the market as CBS lost SEC after 2023. That lines up pretty darn well with the expiration of the Big 12 media rights. Might the Big 12 contract be split three ways? ESPN / Fox / CBS? I could see it. They may not take a paycut at all (or just a minimal one.) I doubt CBS is just going to give up on college football on their main broadcast channel.

 

[Zissou]

True but it’s become an urban …Nova who was locked into big the big 5 rejected bids.

Remember all these schools were Indy’s in a loss affiliation called the ECAC. The Yankees Conference was long gone.

The Philly Big 5 was not a conference. It was always a city series for Philly bragging rights.

My understanding is that Nova did not accept the invite in the first year as it was waffling on its Eastern Eight partners vs the forming Big East. The Eastern Eight were Nova, Pitt, Penn State, WVU, Rutgers, UMass, Duquesne, & George Washington. Nova won the last 2 Eastern Eight Tournaments before joint the Big East for its 2nd conference season.

Then a few years later there is the disputed history of Pitt and Penn State as candidate new members. The conference decided to pick one or the other, and chose Pitt as the metro school with the better basketball program and tv market.

 

[How Sway?!]

So many bad assumptions. The "new" big 12 is losing it's two most valuable entities, but it's gaining four teams -- which means more inventory. There's also a potential new bidder on the market as CBS lost SEC after 2023. That lines up pretty darn well with the expiration of the Big 12 media rights. Might the Big 12 contract be split three ways? ESPN / Fox / CBS? I could see it. They may not take a paycut at all (or just a minimal one.) I doubt CBS is just going to give up on college football on their main broadcast channel.

UCF, Houston, BYU and Cincinnati are worth less together than Texas alone, nevermind Oklahoma too. In addition, the new deal is being split by 2 extra teams, so even if the overall number stays the same, each school will receive less. CBS might in fact be willing to get involved, but considering that they did not put much of a fight to keep the SEC games they had, which are much more valuable than any B12 game without Texas or Oklahoma, what makes you think they'll open up the bank for the B12?

 

[Friarsnoop]

ESPN will overpay the Big 12 in their next contract as a way to settle all grievances and allow Oklahoma and Texas to move to the SEC early. There's no way Kansas or any other Power 5 conference member will leave for the Big East. The only team worth an invitation is Gonzaga.

 

[freescooter]

The Big 12 gets $22 Million per school for TV. The commissioner said, on record, that Oklahoma and Texas leaving will cause the TV deal to fall by %50, meaning that the new deal will land somewheere around $12 million per school.

Ok. $11 million > $5 million. And by quite a lot. So even worst case, tell me why Kansas would take that cut. I mean, sure they would get to play Seton Hall, and MSG, But the Hall would lick the yellow line down Maine St in Lawrence to play Kansas annually, and Kansas could play at MSG any time it wanted likely with a phone call.

And just to be clear FOX isn’t funding Kansas to encourage this move.

 

[freescooter]

UCF, Houston, BYU and Cincinnati are worth less together than Texas alone, nevermind Oklahoma too. In addition, the new deal is being split by 2 extra teams, so even if the overall number stays the same, each school will receive less. CBS might in fact be willing to get involved, but considering that they did not put much of a fight to keep the SEC games they had, which are much more valuable than any B12 game without Texas or Oklahoma, what makes you think they'll open up the bank for the B12?

What makes you think think Anyone will open the bank for the Big East? Even the most optimistic projections say maybe $10, though most say in the $7-8 million range. But let’s say $10. Will Georgetown take 9 to get Kansas to the $15 needed to land them? Of course they won’t.

The Big East made sense when it was founded. It had an incredible run in the 80s through its demise in 2013. But the world of sports has changed. And remember, the AAC is the successor league. Technically I believe “owns” all the records. The NEWBIE bought the name. And all these long term rivalries people get weepy about were with mostly the schools who are no longer there and at any rate, we’re against less than half the league as it is currently constituted.

Dave Gavitt must be turning over in his grave hearing people talk about adding Davidson and Dayton…yuck.

 

[alphasigko]

Gonzaga? Really? Was not one of the complaints about being in the AAC the time spent flying to destinations that require 3+ hour plane rides to get to Houston, Dallas, New Orleans, etc? Right now flying to Omaha requires at least 3 hours to play Creighton. Getting to Spokane will take all of 4 or 4+ hours. Would I like to see the Zags in the NBE? Sure, they would be a great addition; but I am not sure the logistics work.

 

[Zissou]

What makes you think think Anyone will open the bank for the Big East? Even the most optimistic projections say maybe $10, though most say in the $7-8 million range. But let’s say $10. Will Georgetown take 9 to get Kansas to the $15 needed to land them? Of course they won’t

Now you are starting to get closer to the understanding of what is possible.

Did UConn leave the larger AAC deal (“billion dollar deal”) for the smaller Big East TV payout? Yes, because it made better financial sense overall plus it was a better path forward.

Let’s use your numbers and the 80/20 valuation split for football/basketball that was referenced earlier in this thread. It’s not a bad estimation.

Would Georgetown take a $9M payout? Yes, that’s fair, let’s say every Big East team gets $9M in the next TV deal, including Kansas.

Using your $15M for the diluted nBig 12, Fox would only have to pay Kansas $6M for its football rights to make them whole.

So if the next Big East contract is worth $10M, and each school instead takes $9M, and Fox pays Kansas $11M for football, is this possible? I think so. Is it probable? It’s hard to predict CR, but it’s possible.

I was blistered on here for advocating UConn to the Big East long before it happened. I was crazy and stupid for discussing what was impossible. I made the same points about the Big East TV contract bring greater than 20% of the American TV deal, and UConn would be better off financially taking the top Basketball conference TV deal and generating football revenue as an independent.

It’s the same model here.

Using your $15M for nBig 12 and the 20% factor, their hoops portion would have a $3M TV value, less than the Big East’s hoop value. And Kansas is the marquee in that hoops value. The Big East has better markets and a better footprint, value continuing from Dave Gavit’s original vision.

Fox would have to have the heavy hand, working with Val, to make this happen.

Kansas, already a premium brand blue blood, would now be marketed in the higher value Big East markets. It would also have more stability for its basketball-first program. And more money.

Scoot, I don’t disparage the quality of nBig12 hoops. It’s a top 4 conference in hoops over the last 10 years, right there with the Big East. But Fox and the Big East plucking Kansas is possible.

 

[Slasher]

Now you are starting to get closer to the understanding of what is possible.

Did UConn leave the larger AAC deal (“billion dollar deal”) for the smaller Big East TV payout? Yes, because it made better financial sense overall plus it was a better path forward.

Let’s use your numbers and the 80/20 valuation split for football/basketball that was referenced earlier in this thread. It’s not a bad estimation.

Would Georgetown take a $9M payout? Yes, that’s fair, let’s say every Big East team gets $9M in the next TV deal, including Kansas.

Using your $15M for the diluted nBig 12, Fox would only have to pay Kansas $6M for its football rights to make them whole.

So if the next Big East contract is worth $10M, and each school instead takes $9M, and Fox pays Kansas $11M for football, is this possible? I think so. Is it probable? It’s hard to predict CR, but it’s possible.

I was blistered on here for advocating UConn to the Big East long before it happened. I was crazy and stupid for discussing what was impossible. I made the same points about the Big East TV contract bring greater than 20% of the American TV deal, and UConn would be better off financially taking the top Basketball conference TV deal and generating football revenue as an independent.

It’s the same model here.

Using your $15M for nBig 12 and the 20% factor, their hoops portion would have a $3M TV value, less than the Big East’s hoop value. And Kansas is the marquee in that hoops value. The Big East has better markets and a better footprint, value continuing from Dave Gavit’s original vision.

Fox would have to have the heavy hand, working with Val, to make this happen.

Kansas, already a premium brand blue blood, would now be marketed in the higher value Big East markets. It would also have more stability for its basketball-first program. And more money.

Scoot, I don’t disparage the quality of nBig12 hoops. It’s a top 4 conference in hoops over the last 10 years, right there with the Big East. But Fox and the Big East plucking Kansas is possible.

Except you're ignoring tier 3 rights. The Big 12 doesn't own them. So that's an additional payout for Kansas. There is no feasible way (short of the Big 12 dissolving) for Kansas to end up in the Big East.

 

[Zissou]

Except you're ignoring tier 3 rights. The Big 12 doesn't own them. So that's an additional payout for Kansas. There is no feasible way (short of the Big 12 dissolving) for Kansas to end up in the Big East.

Kansas could retain their tier 3 rights in a move, so what’s your point?

I really don’t think such a big move would be made or broken on the topic of tier 3 rights, although it seems to be a favorite emphasis on the BY.

 

[Hogoff]

Now you are starting to get closer to the understanding of what is possible.

Did UConn leave the larger AAC deal (“billion dollar deal”) for the smaller Big East TV payout? Yes, because it made better financial sense overall plus it was a better path forward.

Let’s use your numbers and the 80/20 valuation split for football/basketball that was referenced earlier in this thread. It’s not a bad estimation.

Would Georgetown take a $9M payout? Yes, that’s fair, let’s say every Big East team gets $9M in the next TV deal, including Kansas.

Using your $15M for the diluted nBig 12, Fox would only have to pay Kansas $6M for its football rights to make them whole.

So if the next Big East contract is worth $10M, and each school instead takes $9M, and Fox pays Kansas $11M for football, is this possible? I think so. Is it probable? It’s hard to predict CR, but it’s possible.

I was blistered on here for advocating UConn to the Big East long before it happened. I was crazy and stupid for discussing what was impossible. I made the same points about the Big East TV contract bring greater than 20% of the American TV deal, and UConn would be better off financially taking the top Basketball conference TV deal and generating football revenue as an independent.

It’s the same model here.

Using your $15M for nBig 12 and the 20% factor, their hoops portion would have a $3M TV value, less than the Big East’s hoop value. And Kansas is the marquee in that hoops value. The Big East has better markets and a better footprint, value continuing from Dave Gavit’s original vision.

Fox would have to have the heavy hand, working with Val, to make this happen.

Kansas, already a premium brand blue blood, would now be marketed in the higher value Big East markets. It would also have more stability for its basketball-first program. And more money.

Scoot, I don’t disparage the quality of nBig12 hoops. It’s a top 4 conference in hoops over the last 10 years, right there with the Big East. But Fox and the Big East plucking Kansas is possible.

I gave you a like because you were spot on with UConn to the Big East, and the same is true with Kansas.

 

[Zissou]

I gave you a like because you were spot on with UConn to the Big East, and the same is true with Kansas.

UConn should be pressing Val on this plan. It would add luster to UConn’s move if they could land Kansas on the same model (facilitated by Fox).

 

[Zissou]

And the even better play would be the Big Ten - Big East merger (plus Kansas), with the Big Ten getting the Big East metro TV markets primarily through hoops.

It would be the Hoops super conference and the biggest leverage in the “what’s next” future landscape for division 1 basketball and the March tournament.

Can you imagine NYC on Thursday night with Nova, Michigan, UConn, Mich State, St Johns, Ohio State, Georgetown, and Kansas?

 

[Zissou]

I love the Zags, but they just don’t make geographical sense, either for the Zags or the rest of the conference. They should just seek basketball scheduling with the top Big East schools.

 

[Viet Vet]

Keep it at 11. The round robin, playing every team twice a year is perfect

Say the BE goes to 12. Assume it's Dayton. Then adopt the Ivy League's travel-partner model for basketball (Yale/Brown; Harvard/Dartmouth; Columbia/Cornell; Penn/Princeton). All league games played Friday & Saturday, save the two vs your travel partner.

BE partners could be: UConn/Providence; St. John's/Seton Hall; Villanova/Georgetown; Xavier/Dayton; DePaul/Marquette and Butler/Creighton (yeah that one is the geographic outlier. 22 league games, all home-and-home.

Growing up in the 50s/early 60s in Branford, a Yale fan, nothing beat the anticipation of Penn/Princeton weekend at Payne Whitney.

 

[McLovin]

And the even better play would be the Big Ten - Big East merger (plus Kansas), with the Big Ten getting the Big East metro TV markets primarily through hoops.

It would be the Hoops super conference and the biggest leverage in the “what’s next” future landscape for division 1 basketball and the March tournament.

Can you imagine NYC on Thursday night with Nova, Michigan, UConn, Mich State, St Johns, Ohio State, Georgetown, and Kansas?

MSG conference tourney is a nice carrot for the Big East to use. BIG has made it known they want to ply their tourney at MSG…

 

[Friarsnoop]

I don't know the answer to this: does Gonzaga fly to their conference games for non revenue sports? Most of their opponents are around 1000 miles away from them.

 

[Big East Fa]

To get the value of Kansas in the Big East.

eSPN has primary rights to the Big 12.

Big 12 TV deal ends in a couple of years. Does CBS make a play while they lose the SEC. Does FOX still want part of the Big12.

 

[storrsroars]

I don't know what this means regarding BE expansion, but this is the most oddly targeted ad I've ever seen on the BY, and it's all over this thread.