Big 12 TV partners push back on expansion

[HartbeatHusky]

The angle overlooked here is that ESPN wants to keep the American competitive. They pay nothing for what has turned out to be a pretty good league. By allowing expansion ESPN spends more for the B12 AND loses compelling programming from the American. They can only cut pay to American schools a little because they only make $2,000,000 each. This is a costly situation for ESPN. ESPN also wants to keep UConn available to the ACC in case we are needed. They are investing heavily in the ACC.

Again, the B12 needs to grab the most valuable programs and then talk to ESPN. ESPN is never going to support this plan in advance of expansion.

Exactly. They need to nut up. Take UConn, BYU, and whoever else. Probably Cincy and one more. Get the money per the contract but be open to negotiate on GOR Extension in exchange for more money and/or B12 Network.

 

[lne001]

I love how the "P5" was created in a blink of an eye because of nothing more than greed and now if you're not in one of those magical conferences you literally do not matter anymore. College sports can go screw. Name one thing worse than the landscape of college athletics, you can't.

The American political election process.

 

[don356]

The reason for a pro rata contract is that by having more games(or less), the networks have added(or less) content from which to draw ad revenues. Thus, if the conference lost teams(as they did), the content and ad revenue would shrink. However, when you negotiated a contract at one level, it's pretty reasonable to expect that to be the norm. My guess is this is a negotiating ploy to keep the conference at 12 teams versus going to 14. They probably do not want to pay that incremental level of revenues given they're g5 teams.

 

[ASweet3781]

Dennis Dodd ‏@dennisdoddcbs 19m19 minutes ago
Filed to CBS Sports: Battle lines being drawn in @Big12Conference expansion. Quality teams vs. quality ratings.

 

[amory]

Big 12 should just call ESPN's bluff. They're full of $h|t anyway. If the conference performs well they'll be there on day 1 to bid on the rights when the current deal expires.

I say this whether or not UConn is a selection. F ESPN.

 

[Dooley]

Time to close the $26M/yr tax credit that we fund to ESPN. I don't want 1 penny of my tax dollars to go to Bristol as long as they continue to shut out UConn. If they threaten to move, see ya. Enjoy laying off half your workforce and incurring the costs in having to move operations.

 

[upstater]

This could also be a negotiating ploy on ESPN's part. The deal may need some redoing.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

This could also be a negotiating ploy on ESPN's part. The deal may need some redoing.

It is all a negotiation. Maybe ESPN will let the Big 12 add 4, but not at full quote.

 

[don356]

It is all a negotiation. Maybe ESPN will let the Big 12 add 4, but not at full quote.

I suspect they want them to stay at 12. I've heard this prior to today.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I suspect they want them to stay at 12. I've heard this prior to today.

Why is 12 a magic number? ESPN would like more content, but doesn't want to pay for it. Somewhere in that algorithm is a market clearing price and structure for the Big 12.

 

[Dooley]

Time to close the $26M/yr tax credit that we fund to ESPN. I don't want 1 penny of my tax dollars to go to Bristol as long as they continue to shut out UConn. If they threaten to move, see ya. Enjoy laying off half your workforce and incurring the costs in having to move operations.

 

[B1GOSU]

Big 12 is screwed no matter what. Best case scenario, the current 10 make decent money until 2025 and then when the contract is up, no one will pony up that kind of money with 4 members that in the early 2000's were essentially Conference USA teams.

 

[upstater]

Big 12 is screwed no matter what. Best case scenario, the current 10 make decent money until 2025 and then when the contract is up, no one will pony up that kind of money with 4 members that in the early 2000's were essentially Conference USA teams.

The P5 are comprised already of similar teams.

Iowa, Purdue, Indiana, Rutgers, BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Wake Forest, Duke, Louisville, Vanderbilt, Mississippi St, TCU, Baylor, Oklahoma St, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, West Virginia, Washington St, Oregon State, etc.

The profile of these schools is not different than UConn's. Cincy and BYU could probably make the same argument.

 

[amory]

Big 12 is screwed no matter what. Best case scenario, the current 10 make decent money until 2025 and then when the contract is up, no one will pony up that kind of money with 4 members that in the early 2000's were essentially Conference USA teams.

Unless those additions explode in performance on the field and fan interest after the influx of cash and viable opponents, which could very well happen.

ESPN/Fox saying they won't bid on Big 12 content in 2024 is absurd. They have no idea what the added schools, or the conference in general, will look like in 8 years.

 

[Marty Jackson]

Big 12 is screwed no matter what. Best case scenario, the current 10 make decent money until 2025 and then when the contract is up, no one will pony up that kind of money with 4 members that in the early 2000's were essentially Conference USA teams.

depends... nobody has an issue with TCU do they?

 

[don356]

Why is 12 a magic number? ESPN would like more content, but doesn't want to pay for it. Somewhere in that algorithm is a market clearing price and structure for the Big 12.

I suspect it's the middle ground whereby they can get the b12 to bite and not have to pony up the added $'s for two aac teams at big 12 rates not to mention keeping the aac together which is a bargain for them.

 

[amory]

Activating the pro rata clause, which SBJ termed a "cash grab," rubs "ESPN and Fox the wrong way because any new schools would not carry the profile of most Power Five schools ..."

This quote makes me so mad.

A) UConn absolutely carries the profile of "most" Power Five schools. UConn carries a better profile than "most" P5 schools, because "most" P5 schools aren't actually very popular or good at any particular sport, they were just lucky enough to be in the right conference when all this crap went down

B) The "cash grab" was ESPN and other TV providers conspiring to destroy the regional nature of college athletic conferences in the first place.

C) You can't strand an athletic department on a desert island for a decade and then blame them for not being in prime shape. These schools didn't lose the desire to compete, they didn't close their facilities, the alumni and fan bases didn't up and decide "oh you know, I've just decided not to care about these teams anymore". These programs are sleeping giants. Let them into a viable conference and let them wake the hell up and start earning you money, you idiots.

 

[31GuardTrap]

Dennis Dodd ‏@dennisdoddcbs 19m19 minutes ago
Filed to CBS Sports: Battle lines being drawn in @Big12Conference expansion. Quality teams vs. quality ratings.

Screw him !!!

 

[nelsonmuntz]

If Aresco was smart, he would try to renegotiate the AAC contract right now.

 

[sub legacy]

time to head to Bristol with our pitchforks and torches.

ESPN are about as reliable and useful to UConn's best interests as a frenemy c•€kblocker.

 

[pepband99]

If Aresco was smart, he would try to renegotiate the AAC contract right now.

Yes, because pushing for more $$$ than a signed contract is great, when ESPN is already complaining about paying a contract under terms.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Yes, because pushing for more $$$ than a signed contract is great, when ESPN is already complaining about paying a contract under terms.

I don't speak pepband, but I think you are saying that ESPN won't be real excited about paying more on an existing contract than they already are. The AAC contract renegotiation starts in a year or two anyway. You may think UConn can pay its bills based on happy thoughts, but in reality, UConn needs more money for its athletic program to survive, and the best time to approach a customer is when they are pissed at one of your competitors.

 

[pepband99]

Not that hard...
ESPN is ticked about expansion candidates in the B12, even though they have it in contract already to pay.
Why would you, at the same time, ask for a look-in on contract which favors them right now? Combine that with the 0 leverage they have, and it won't end well.

 

[BlueMAB]

I don't speak pepband, but I think you are saying that ESPN won't be real excited about paying more on an existing contract than they already are. The AAC contract renegotiation starts in a year or two anyway. You may think UConn can pay its bills based on happy thoughts, but in reality, UConn needs more money for its athletic program to survive, and the best time to approach a customer is when they are pissed at one of your competitors.

The line about UConn is irrelevant, you just threw that in there to try and discredit any opposing view. It assumes that the AAC isn't losing UConn, something we don't know at this time.

Why wouldn't ESPN be similarly pissed at Aresco using this current round to try and get a better deal for AAC teams knowing that they already don't want to pay the B12 more money for AAC teams? Why would they even bother returning his calls before the B12 acts? Because if the AAC is gutted, they'll get the remaining product for even less than they do now in 1-2 years. Which will be the goal, since they'd be overpaying (in their eyes) for the B12.

 

[Excalibur]

Not that hard...
ESPN is ticked about expansion candidates in the B12, even though they have it in contract already to pay.
Why would you, at the same time, ask for a look-in on contract which favors them right now? Combine that with the 0 leverage they have, and it won't end well.

If ESPN thought that throwing a few more dollars could prevent a team from leaving, they'd be willing to negotiate. The likely response will be to tell Aresco to pound sand and wait to see who is actually in this shitshow of a conference in 2018.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The line about UConn is irrelevant, you just threw that in there to try and discredit any opposing view. It assumes that the AAC isn't losing UConn, something we don't know at this time.

Why wouldn't ESPN be similarly pissed at Aresco using this current round to try and get a better deal for AAC teams knowing that they already don't want to pay the B12 more money for AAC teams? Why would they even bother returning his calls before the B12 acts? Because if the AAC is gutted, they'll get the remaining product for even less than they do now in 1-2 years. Which will be the goal, since they'd be overpaying (in their eyes) for the B12.

If ESPN is going to gut the AAC, then ESPN will know that and the discussion is moot. Duh. If the Big 12 is just shaking down ESPN, which is highly possible, then the AAC can do ESPN a solid by taking less money than the Big 12 would require to lock up its teams through 2025.

 

[BlueMAB]

If ESPN is going to gut the AAC, then ESPN will know that and the discussion is moot. Duh. If the Big 12 is just shaking down ESPN, which is highly possible, then the AAC can do ESPN a solid by taking less money than the Big 12 would require to lock up its teams through 2025.

You know that ESPN is trying not to gut the AAC, yet, you say things like "If ESPN is going to gut the AAC, then ESPN will know that". It's very strange.

Why would ESPN give the AAC any money? Do you honestly think that Aresco is actually in a position to keep a team in the AAC if he can get more money from ESPN if the B12 is on the table for that school?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

If ESPN thought that throwing a few more dollars could prevent a team from leaving, they'd be willing to negotiate. The likely response will be to tell Aresco to pound sand and wait to see who is actually in this shitshow of a conference in 2018.

ESPN has quite a bit of influence about which conference a team is in, and therefore how they pay for it. If ESPN offered $5MM a team per year to the AAC through 2025, the AAC would probably take it, even if there was some restriction of movement for the teams. That would cost ESPN $36MM a year more than it is paying the AAC now. The Big 12 may want $50MM a year not to expand, and ESPN doesn't get a nickel of extra content or quality for paying that. At least paying the AAC may result in a better product for TV.

That said, that is still ascribing a lot more intelligence than ESPN has ever shown. ESPN's low ball bid to the Big East in 2012 resulted in ESPN paying almost the same amount for Louisville, Pitt, and Syracuse, plust Notre Dame basketball and half of TCU and WVU, as they had offered the Big East for all of its teams.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

You know that ESPN is trying not to gut the AAC, yet, you say things like "If ESPN is going to gut the AAC, then ESPN will know that". It's very strange.

Why would ESPN give the AAC any money? Do you honestly think that Aresco is actually in a position to keep a team in the AAC if he can get more money from ESPN if the B12 is on the table for that school?

If the Big 12 has no intention of adding any schools, which looks like a 50/50 proposition right now, then the Big 12 is just threatening to add more schools to get ESPN to give the Big 12 more money. If you are ESPN, and have a renegotiation of the bargain basement AAC contract coming up in a couple of years, why not just offer the AAC half of what you would have offered the Big 12 to NOT add teams? Figure out whatever details you want, but the AAC, at this moment, would probably take a reasonable offer because the AAC's leverage is highest right before the Big 12 reaches a deal with ESPN on its shakedown.

 

[BlueMAB]

If the Big 12 has no intention of adding any schools, which looks like a 50/50 proposition right now, then the Big 12 is just threatening to add more schools to get ESPN to give the Big 12 more money. If you are ESPN, and have a renegotiation of the bargain basement AAC contract coming up in a couple of years, why not just offer the AAC half of what you would have offered the Big 12 to NOT add teams? Figure out whatever details you want, but the AAC, at this moment, would probably take a reasonable offer because the AAC's leverage is highest right before the Big 12 reaches a deal with ESPN on its shakedown.

Because that half won't stop any school in the AAC from leaving to the B12, and that action might make the B12 go ahead and invite those schools to get all of what the contract calls for. Good luck getting Cinci, Houston, UConn, Memphis, USF and UCF to agree on hefty exit fees when they know that the B12 is seriously considering adding one of them.

There's much more being left on the table for G5 schools than TV money. The playoff bowl revenue, the NCAA tournament credits, the tier 3 rights (particularly for UConn/BYU). Doubling, tripling, quadrupling what we'll get once the exit fee money runs out isn't enough to keep up. For someone who so often rails on the financial shortfall we're facing, it's astonishing that you don't see that.