Big 12 TV partners push back on expansion

[JMick]

This is the exact same thing i've been told as well. I was reading Cincy boards and their ath. dept has gone on communication lock down as well similar to Byu. Interesting Ohio Governor Kasich sent a letter and evidently talked to Big 12 guys earlier in July. He's an Osu guy so that is a somewhat curious development unless it was late in the game.

My guess? They've already expanded to 12 with BYU and UC and are debating going to 14.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

How do you know it's not in the process of happening now?

Here's the thing you keep ignoring. If it doesn't happen, why the hell would ESPN pay the AAC any more money? And for once could you answer a direct question?

What school is going to turn down the B12 for the AAC? Because that's what you're suggesting.

Don't attack me if you can't keep up. I am not suggesting that anyone would turn down the Big 12 for the AAC. I am saying there is a window of time right now where the AAC may be able to craft a better deal before the Big 12 cuts a deal for mountains of more money without expanding, and we lose a sliver of leverage that the AAC happens to have for a short period of time.

I have no idea what ESPN will pay the AAC next time around. ESPN is smart enough to realize that if the AAC doesn't get subsistence revenue, it is not going to be worth putting on TV. ESPN may decide it doesn't care.

 

[Exit 4]

My guess? They've already expanded to 12 with BYU and UC and are debating going to 14.

Yeah - seems like that is indeed what has happened. And word of this has pissed off the tv folks and so the thinking behind 13 and 14 has become even more clouded.

 

[JMick]

Yeah - seems like that is indeed what has happened. And word of this has pissed off the tv folks and so the thinking behind 13 and 14 has become even more clouded.

Yup. Big XII was probably talking about expansion with ESPN and Fox, the went ahead and added 2 without telling them first. Then ESPN and Fox freak out asking wtf is going on and that's what has put a hold on 13 and 14.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

My guess? They've already expanded to 12 with BYU and UC and are debating going to 14.

This will be the end of the football program as it is currently constituted if the AAC loses Cincinnati and UConn is stuck behind. Support for the athletic department budget is collapsing at the state house. It is not fair to ask taxpayers and students to subsidize the athletic program when there is no visibility to joining a P5 league.

 

[djct1999]

This will be the end of the football program as it is currently constituted if the AAC loses Cincinnati and UConn is stuck behind. Support for the athletic department budget is collapsing at the state house. It is not fair to ask taxpayers and students to subsidize the athletic program when there is no visibility to joining a P5 league.

But it's fair to subsidize ESPN?

 

[shizzle787]

But it's fair to subsidize ESPN?

No, which is why we give them an ultimatum, get us in or leave.

 

[don356]

My guess? They've already expanded to 12 with BYU and UC and are debating going to 14.

Yep, i think that's were the "push back" has come into play. AAC loses one, networks no big issue, they go back to paying what they were paying and AAC adds a team or 3 and their contract keeps going. Lose 2 more, woe nelly, hold on. Big 12 likely not worried so much about the extra 2 teams, but they are worried about the extra millions they would pocket over the next 8 years. It definitely fits the factors/signs we are seeing.

 

[upstater]

If ESPN is indeed going to lock UConn out of the P5, then really, can they be defended politically inside the state? This has happened 3 times.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

But it's fair to subsidize ESPN?

I never said that.

I think ESPN's behavior throughout conference realignment has been stupid and incredibly damaging to UConn, without increasing their own bottomline. We are where we are though. UConn has poured tens of millions of investment into the football program, and if a vote at the Big 12 goes the wrong way, we will be a mid major football program in a crappy hoops league.

ESPN could have gotten UConn into the ACC with a phone call at any time in the last 4 years. I don't know who pissed off who at ESPN, but it is hard to argue with the results.

 

[BlueDogs]

The angle overlooked here is that ESPN wants to keep the American competitive. They pay nothing for what has turned out to be a pretty good league. By allowing expansion ESPN spends more for the B12 AND loses compelling programming from the American. They can only cut pay to American schools a little because they only make $2,000,000 each. This is a costly situation for ESPN. ESPN also wants to keep UConn available to the ACC in case we are needed. They are investing heavily in the ACC.

Again, the B12 needs to grab the most valuable programs and then talk to ESPN. ESPN is never going to support this plan in advance of expansion.

THIS x 100. The AAC is a steal for ESPN and is good content on the cheap. Keeping UConn out of the Big 12 along with Houston and Memphis (all good TV Markets) is free money. If they lose them, the other juicy markets like Orlando, New Orleans, Southern Florida take a major hit. Adding Navy gave them a free global market. ESPN once again is undermining UConn . The idea the Big12 will dilute their product is laughable BS from the crooks in Bristol.

 

[djct1999]

If ESPN is indeed going to lock UConn out of the P5, then really, can they be defended politically inside the state? This has happened 3 times.

Nope. This will be the straw that breaks the camels back. This will become a major point of contention that some politicians will ride.

 

[JMick]

Nope. This will be the straw that breaks the camels back. This will become a major point of contention that some politicians will ride.

It would be nice if that happened but I doubt it.

 

[djct1999]

It would be nice if that happened but I doubt it.

Let's collectively make that happen!

 

[NEforceUConn]

Unicorns and rainbows...........maybe UC/BYU to Big 12 and ESPN tells Swofford now's the time tap UConn. This stops Big 12 at 12 and solidifies an end to it when current contract matures.

ESPN probably saves some cash and puts another nail in the 12 for sweet ACC future pickings.

 

[BlueMAB]

Don't attack me if you can't keep up. I am not suggesting that anyone would turn down the Big 12 for the AAC. I am saying there is a window of time right now where the AAC may be able to craft a better deal before the Big 12 cuts a deal for mountains of more money without expanding, and we lose a sliver of leverage that the AAC happens to have for a short period of time.

I have no idea what ESPN will pay the AAC next time around. ESPN is smart enough to realize that if the AAC doesn't get subsistence revenue, it is not going to be worth putting on TV. ESPN may decide it doesn't care.

Lol. you're suggesting ESPN will pay more money for AAC teams so they don't have to pay more money for AAC teams.

Yes, it's always wise to buy at a discount if you can, but your timetable makes your point moot. Paying the AAC teams won't stop any of them from leaving to join the B12, and if they pay the B12 enough that they won't expand, there's no point in paying the AAC any more money.

They can try and pay the B12 enough that they won't expand. They aren't going to pay the AAC what it would take for them not to leave. The AAC has no leverage. Cutting a deal with the AAC for more money doesn't stop the B12 from exercising their rights under the contract.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Lol. you're suggesting ESPN will pay more money for AAC teams so they don't have to pay more money for AAC teams.

Yes, it's always wise to buy at a discount if you can, but your timetable makes your point moot. Paying the AAC teams won't stop any of them from leaving to join the B12, and if they pay the B12 enough that they won't expand, there's no point in paying the AAC any more money.

They can try and pay the B12 enough that they won't expand. They aren't going to pay the AAC what it would take for them not to leave. The AAC has no leverage. Cutting a deal with the AAC for more money doesn't stop the B12 from exercising their rights under the contract.

Whatever. My fingers hurt from typing the same post 5 different ways.

 

[BlueDogs]

If our pathetic governor doesn't get on the phone and make it clear to ESPN that UConn will be going P5 and its in their interest to do so or there could be some state revenue enhancements such as a sales tax on all sports entertainment network time ad revenue, then he is a total azzhat.

 

[atom58]

Big 12 expansion now alive, well and likely after being presumed dead

The industry was abuzz Tuesday night with this unlikely outcome. As recent as last weekend, the odds of both the ACC adding a network -- which reportedly happened Monday -- and the Big 12 adding teams seemed small. ... the rights fees money that once seemed to have dried up is still flowing. ... The Big 12's payout increases to $35 million next year and $43 million at the end of the football deal in 2024, according to a source. "We intend to exercise the full prerogative of what we negotiated," Bowlsby said. "I don't think we have to make apologies for stipulations we both agreed to."

If I'm running the Big 12 I expand to 14. If ESPN and Fox don't like that, maybe they should not have given the Big 10 such a lucrative contract recently. The Big 12 is undervalued, and also ESPN, after telling the Big 12 the market is not there for a cable channel has given one to the ACC (largely because of the "channel clause" that someone was smart enough to have included). Well, the Big 12 was smart enough to have included a "pro rata clause". What, me worry?

 

[sportsart]

Big 12 expansion now alive, well and likely after being presumed dead

The industry was abuzz Tuesday night with this unlikely outcome. As recent as last weekend, the odds of both the ACC adding a network -- which reportedly happened Monday -- and the Big 12 adding teams seemed small. ... the rights fees money that once seemed to have dried up is still flowing. ... The Big 12's payout increases to $35 million next year and $43 million at the end of the football deal in 2024, according to a source. "We intend to exercise the full prerogative of what we negotiated," Bowlsby said. "I don't think we have to make apologies for stipulations we both agreed to."

If I'm running the Big 12 I expand to 14. If ESPN and Fox don't like that, maybe they should not have given the Big 10 such a lucrative contract recently. The Big 12 is undervalued, and also ESPN, after telling the Big 12 the market is not there for a cable channel has given one to the ACC (largely because of the "channel clause" that someone was smart enough to have included). Well, the Big 12 was smart enough to have included a "pro rata clause". What, me worry?

Just paroled?

 

[whaler11]

Don't attack me if you can't keep up. I am not suggesting that anyone would turn down the Big 12 for the AAC. I am saying there is a window of time right now where the AAC may be able to craft a better deal before the Big 12 cuts a deal for mountains of more money without expanding, and we lose a sliver of leverage that the AAC happens to have for a short period of time.

I have no idea what ESPN will pay the AAC next time around. ESPN is smart enough to realize that if the AAC doesn't get subsistence revenue, it is not going to be worth putting on TV. ESPN may decide it doesn't care.

Nobody would take the AAC's calls right now.

First, you can't even define the AAC membership.

Second, the rights fees for filler programming is going down.

Third, nobody but ESPN even has the capacity to televise AAC games.

The AAC isn't any worse at half the TV contract. There are always going to be programs in the AAC that can outrecruit the Sun Belt and MAC. The scholarship limits guarantee there will be leagues as good as the AAC and MVC.

They don't get any better at 3 times the money and they don't get any worse at half the contract. The difference between 1 and 6 million doesn't impact the quality of the football teams in any way.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Nobody would take the AAC's calls right now.

First, you can't even define the AAC membership.

Second, the rights fees for filler programming is going down.

Third, nobody but ESPN even has the capacity to televise AAC games.

The AAC isn't any worse at half the TV contract. There are always going to be programs in the AAC that can outrecruit the Sun Belt and MAC. The scholarship limits guarantee there will be leagues as good as the AAC and MVC.

They don't get any better at 3 times the money and they don't get any worse at half the contract. The difference between 1 and 6 million doesn't impact the quality of the football teams in any way.

Schools are not going to continue subsidizing money losing athletic programs. There will be no middle ground in football in 10 years. Either a school will be big time or it will be paying it's coach $150k and recruiting using youtube. If no one wants to pay to broadcast AAC football, why bother having it?

 

['dweller]

The Big 12 needs to do what's best for them long term, and not worry about the blowhards at ESPN.

UC/BYU/UCONN/UCF are, in my opinion, the right additions. If Texas politics are going to force UH instead of UCF, so be it. But either way, that's a strong league. These aren't scrub programs today, and P5 membership is only going to make them stronger in the next few years

Those would be my four picks. All four have potential with great markets that could be exploited to "grow with the league" as Bowlsby put it, with the Big 12 legitimacy behind them.

 

[dayooper]

If I'm running the Big 12 I expand to 14. If ESPN and Fox don't like that, maybe they should not have given the Big 10 such a lucrative contract recently. The Big 12 is undervalued, and also ESPN, after telling the Big 12 the market is not there for a cable channel has given one to the ACC (largely because of the "channel clause" that someone was smart enough to have included). Well, the Big 12 was smart enough to have included a "pro rata clause". What, me worry?

How is the Big12 undervalued. They are being paid like a 12 team conference with ten teams. They have an extremely small footprint, oversaturated in one state (Texas), have two schools in two small states (Oklahoma and Kansas) and the little brother in a third small state. Throw in one of the smallest states with very little money and how can you call them undervalued. I don't see it.

 

[whaler11]

Schools are not going to continue subsidizing money losing athletic programs. There will be no middle ground in football in 10 years. Either a school will be big time or it will be paying it's coach $150k and recruiting using youtube. If no one wants to pay to broadcast AAC football, why bother having it?

Well that's a totally different question - and it certainly isn't going to cause anyone to pay the AAC more today.