Big 12 Pushing For UConn Part Deux!

[dwalks93]

Every team in the Big XII s committed to the success of the Big XII, likely because they know they will ride or die with the conference. There won't be a BIG/SEC life raft for current BigXII teams if the death star gets used on the BigXII. This is why the BigXII should be very careful about adding teams like Oregon/Washington (if that is even possible.)

Meanwhile the ACC is the exact opposite. There are at least 7 teams in the ACC (the Magnificent 7) who have indicated they are unhappy with the current ACC. As we saw in the old BE, nothing destroys a conference faster than when members aren't committed to its long term survival. If the ACC doesn't make any additions based on the current PAC uncertainty then it goes to show the power brokers in the ACC (FSU and Clemson) don't want the conference to survive and will be out as soon as they legally can exit.

As it currently stands, the ACC is a better geographic/partner fit but it is not a better long term, stable place for UConn. The next few weeks will tell us everything we need to know about whether the ACC is committed to its survival. If the ACC doesn't add teams they are a dead conference walking.

 

[metsfan2323]

As it currently stands, the ACC is a better geographic/partner fit but it is not a better long term, stable place for UConn.

That's the general assessment right now but things can change. Most people thought the B12 was doomed when Texas and Oklahoma announced they were leaving.

I still think we go to the first P5 conference that makes us an offer.

 

[dwalks93]

That's the general assessment right now but things can change. Most people thought the B12 was doomed when Texas and Oklahoma announced they were leaving.

I still think we go to the first P5 conference that makes us an offer.

I agree...UConn should absolutely take the first P5 offer they get. That said, I don't think an ACC offer is coming cause many of the teams in the ACC aren't interested in the long term survival of the ACC. A conference only adds teams if its members are planning for the future. I hope I am wrong on this....

 

[kemba]

Every team in the Big XII s committed to the success of the Big XII, likely because they know they will ride or die with the conference. There won't be a BIG/SEC life raft for current BigXII teams if the death star gets used on the BigXII. This is why the BigXII should be very careful about adding teams like Oregon/Washington (if that is even possible.)

Meanwhile the ACC is the exact opposite. There are at least 7 teams in the ACC (the Magnificent 7) who have indicated they are unhappy with the current ACC. As we saw in the old BE, nothing destroys a conference faster than when members aren't committed to its long term survival. If the ACC doesn't make any additions based on the current PAC uncertainty then it goes to show the power brokers in the ACC (FSU and Clemson) don't want the conference to survive and will be out as soon as they legally can exit.

As it currently stands, the ACC is a better geographic/partner fit but it is not a better long term, stable place for UConn. The next few weeks will tell us everything we need to know about whether the ACC is committed to its survival. If the ACC doesn't add teams they are a dead conference walking.

But are there landing spots for 7 ACC teams? I doubt it. I think it’s a different landscape than when the big east fell apart

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Every team in the Big XII s committed to the success of the Big XII, likely because they know they will ride or die with the conference. There won't be a BIG/SEC life raft for current BigXII teams if the death star gets used on the BigXII. This is why the BigXII should be very careful about adding teams like Oregon/Washington (if that is even possible.)

Meanwhile the ACC is the exact opposite. There are at least 7 teams in the ACC (the Magnificent 7) who have indicated they are unhappy with the current ACC. As we saw in the old BE, nothing destroys a conference faster than when members aren't committed to its long term survival. If the ACC doesn't make any additions based on the current PAC uncertainty then it goes to show the power brokers in the ACC (FSU and Clemson) don't want the conference to survive and will be out as soon as they legally can exit.

As it currently stands, the ACC is a better geographic/partner fit but it is not a better long term, stable place for UConn. The next few weeks will tell us everything we need to know about whether the ACC is committed to its survival. If the ACC doesn't add teams they are a dead conference walking.

Whether there is or isn't an external invite now for B12 teams, there isn't a single team in the Big 12 that would turn down an invite from the B1G or SEC. The "stability" of any conference outside of those two right now is a complete mirage. KU would jump to the B1G before they picked up the phone. OSU would follow OU to the SEC even faster.

 

[JeepCSC]

Whether there is or isn't an external invite now for B12 teams, there isn't a single team in the Big 12 that would turn down an invite from the B1G or SEC. The "stability" of any conference outside of those two right now is a complete mirage. KU would jump to the B1G before they picked up the phone. OSU would follow OU to the SEC even faster.

This is right. The ACC is more unstable because it has more desirable programs than the B12. Welcome to the paradoxical world of conference realignment.

 

[tzznandrew]

But are there landing spots for 7 ACC teams? I doubt it. I think it’s a different landscape than when the big east fell apart

UNC and Virginia easily have landing spots in either the B1G or the SEC.

If they go to the B1G (which is sort of what I'd expect), I'd expect Duke to go with them, and maybe Georgia Tech. In that scenario, NC State and Virginia Tech would probably find their way into the SEC.

Clemson and Florida State probably would find a home in the B12. Don't think the B1G would care about either, and why in the world would the SEC want them when they have the markets covered?

I honestly think it's only the former BE schools (minus VT) along with Wake Forest that won't have much of a landing spot. Miami and Syracuse probably find a home in the B12 if that happened. BC? Louisville? Why would anyone add them?

 

[dwalks93]

Whether there is or isn't an external invite now for B12 teams, there isn't a single team in the Big 12 that would turn down an invite from the B1G or SEC. The "stability" of any conference outside of those two right now is a complete mirage. KU would jump to the B1G before they picked up the phone. OSU would follow OU to the SEC even faster.

Agreed….to quote Chris Rock from one of his comedy specials “a man is only as faithful as his opportunities.” The point is the current Big XII don’t have SEC/BIG opportunities and that is unlikely to change in the foreseeable future.

OK State will always be the #2 school in a low population state. Kansas is unlikely to become a football powerhouse. For the foreseeable future their best course of action is to build the Big XII which in turn makes the Big XII more stable.

 

[dwalks93]

But are there landing spots for 7 ACC teams? I doubt it. I think it’s a different landscape than when the big east fell apart

Whether you and I believe there are 7 landing spots for ACC teams is irrelevant. The 7 ACC teams involved believe there are better landing spots which is all that matters for predicting future behavior.

 

[billybud]

I think that 7 ACC teams have been grousing about falling behind the P2 in revenue....I do not believe there will be a mass exodus.

If the high costs could be borne, and if somehow the ACC's ownership of rights for the next 13 years could be worked around (big IFs), I think you might see a couple of teams defect before 2030.

 

[ctchamps]

UNC and Virginia easily have landing spots in either the B1G or the SEC.

If they go to the B1G (which is sort of what I'd expect), I'd expect Duke to go with them, and maybe Georgia Tech. In that scenario, NC State and Virginia Tech would probably find their way into the SEC.

Clemson and Florida State probably would find a home in the B12. Don't think the B1G would care about either, and why in the world would the SEC want them when they have the markets covered?

I honestly think it's only the former BE schools (minus VT) along with Wake Forest that won't have much of a landing spot. Miami and Syracuse probably find a home in the B12 if that happened. BC? Louisville? Why would anyone add them?

I want to get into the B12 more than before just so we can smile at Clemson and FSU and thumbs down them.

 

[noeynox]

An analogy:
UConn is analogous to the victim of abuse & the ACC is the abuser. After you've been burned TWICE, why would you even consider reconciliation when you have a new suitor who has thusfar treated you with respect? Entertaining a reunion with the ACC is akin to gluttony for punishment. I, for one would want no part of it.
THE ACC is looking into the magic mirror & finding out about Snow White & Prince Charming.

I agree with you, but IF they make an offer while the Big12 is hemming and hawing with PAC schools, you take it.

 

[ctchamps]

UNC and Virginia easily have landing spots in either the B1G or the SEC.

If they go to the B1G (which is sort of what I'd expect), I'd expect Duke to go with them, and maybe Georgia Tech. In that scenario, NC State and Virginia Tech would probably find their way into the SEC.

Clemson and Florida State probably would find a home in the B12. Don't think the B1G would care about either, and why in the world would the SEC want them when they have the markets covered?

I honestly think it's only the former BE schools (minus VT) along with Wake Forest that won't have much of a landing spot. Miami and Syracuse probably find a home in the B12 if that happened. BC? Louisville? Why would anyone add them?

I would think ND would be taken over Duke and finally capitulate if the BIG still wants them given shortly after the ACC implodes anyone outside power conferences will be relegated to division two like status.

It would be funny if B12 took them and Liberty to add to BYU. But not as funny as a scenario were ND had to park their bb with the BE. ND and the Catholic pips. Would love to see BC there as well.

Definitely think FSU and Clemson to B12 is their best landing spot which would be a shock to both of them.

GoKu stated he felt Pitt and GT would be the pieces added probably to fill geographical voids. My dream is B12 becomes the overwhelming bb conference and reduces the financial gap so much so that UNC and Virginia head to the bb conference to fill the void. One can dream.

 

[PaulMec]

UNC and Virginia easily have landing spots in either the B1G or the SEC.

If they go to the B1G (which is sort of what I'd expect), I'd expect Duke to go with them, and maybe Georgia Tech. In that scenario, NC State and Virginia Tech would probably find their way into the SEC.

Clemson and Florida State probably would find a home in the B12. Don't think the B1G would care about either, and why in the world would the SEC want them when they have the markets covered?

I honestly think it's only the former BE schools (minus VT) along with Wake Forest that won't have much of a landing spot. Miami and Syracuse probably find a home in the B12 if that happened. BC? Louisville? Why would anyone add them?

I agree with you on UNC and UVA, and think that they will go to the B1G. However, I don't see Duke going with them. I also agree with VT and NC State going to the SEC. However, you have Clemson and FSU going to the B12, and most people, myself included, have them going to the SEC. No conference has ever dissolved, as they all pull teams from a conference below them, so I see the P12 and ACC surviving, but becoming G5's.

 

[dayooper]

I agree with you on UNC and UVA, and think that they will go to the B1G. However, I don't see Duke going with them. I also agree with VT and NC State going to the SEC. However, you have Clemson and FSU going to the B12, and most people, myself included, have them going to the SEC. No conference has ever dissolved, as they all pull teams from a conference below them, so I see the P12 and ACC surviving, but becoming G5's.

I know I keep saying this, but FSU is of more value to the Big10 while UNC and UVA are of more value to the SEC. I might also say that The Big10 is more valuable to FSU as they won’t be overshadowed in the same conference by UT. It’s why TAMU originally bolted for the SEC. If the pay is similar, wouldn’t the greater exposure in the Midwest, NYC/NJ and LA be of considerable value?

 

[whalerfan]

I agree with you on UNC and UVA, and think that they will go to the B1G. However, I don't see Duke going with them. I also agree with VT and NC State going to the SEC. However, you have Clemson and FSU going to the B12, and most people, myself included, have them going to the SEC. No conference has ever dissolved, as they all pull teams from a conference below them, so I see the P12 and ACC surviving, but becoming G5's.

There's no way that a conference with Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State and Cal being G5.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

I know I keep saying this, but FSU is of more value to the Big10 while UNC and UVA are of more value to the SEC. I might also say that The Big10 is more valuable to FSU as they won’t be overshadowed in the same conference by UT. It’s why TAMU originally bolted for the SEC. If the pay is similar, wouldn’t the greater exposure in the Midwest, NYC/NJ and LA be of considerable value?

FSU's academic standing has improved quite a bit the last 10-15 years.

 

[upstater]

Every team in the Big XII s committed to the success of the Big XII, likely because they know they will ride or die with the conference. There won't be a BIG/SEC life raft for current BigXII teams if the death star gets used on the BigXII. This is why the BigXII should be very careful about adding teams like Oregon/Washington (if that is even possible.)

Meanwhile the ACC is the exact opposite. There are at least 7 teams in the ACC (the Magnificent 7) who have indicated they are unhappy with the current ACC. As we saw in the old BE, nothing destroys a conference faster than when members aren't committed to its long term survival. If the ACC doesn't make any additions based on the current PAC uncertainty then it goes to show the power brokers in the ACC (FSU and Clemson) don't want the conference to survive and will be out as soon as they legally can exit.

As it currently stands, the ACC is a better geographic/partner fit but it is not a better long term, stable place for UConn. The next few weeks will tell us everything we need to know about whether the ACC is committed to its survival. If the ACC doesn't add teams they are a dead conference walking.

I'd make the case that the ACC is more stable only because 4 schools will get plucked by the power 2, and what remains is far more valuable, in heavily populated regions, than the B12. The problem is the contract. And the timing. The remaining schools would be wise to realize that they may need to give up a few years of the contract and let the big dogs go in order to create a stable conference.

But ESPN is absolutely incentivized to threaten them and tell them they will get nothing (same playbook they threatened the BE with), since ESPN owns Florida St, UNC, Virginia, Clemson and Miami for the next 13 years. Why give them up for cheap?

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

We've been screwed by the Big East and the ACC and now the PACs undoing could put the kabash on us.

+300 Arizona
+400 ASU
+600 Utes
+700 HUSKIES!!!
+1200 zags
+1500 SDSU
+2000 memphis

"Now that the PAC 12 is on the brink of collapsing, the Big 12 can attempt to poach some of the league's most valuable programs."

https://www.si.com/college/westvirginia/big-12/odds-for-the-next-school-to-accept-an-invite-to-the-big-12

This time around we did it to ourselves with a bad decade of football unfortunately.

 

[superjohn]

I'd make the case that the ACC is more stable only because 4 schools will get plucked by the power 2, and what remains is far more valuable, in heavily populated regions, than the B12. The problem is the contract. And the timing. The remaining schools would be wise to realize that they may need to give up a few years of the contract and let the big dogs go in order to create a stable conference.

But ESPN is absolutely incentivized to threaten them and tell them they will get nothing (same playbook they threatened the BE with), since ESPN owns Florida St, UNC, Virginia, Clemson and Miami for the next 13 years. Why give them up for cheap?

Not seeing how the ACC minus 4 schools the Big 10 and SEC would take away is more valuable than the Big 12.

 

[upstater]

Not seeing how the ACC minus 4 schools the Big 10 and SEC would take away is more valuable than the Big 12.

Better brands.

Clemson > everyone
Virginia Tech > Texas Tech
Pittsburgh > Cincinnati

Even schools:
NC State = Oklahoma St
Duke = Kansas

On the flip side, TCU and Baylor over Georgia Tech and Syracuse.

Kansas St & Iowa St are afterthoughts like BC and Wake Forest.

But beyond all this, the B12 will have 4 schools in Texas, with none of them being the top 2 schools.

Then the B12 will have a bunch of sparsely populated Plains states.

The ACC, meanwhile, will have population centers in the south atlantic seaboard. More people living in ACC states.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

This time around we did it to ourselves with a bad decade of football unfortunately.

Timing of hiring three horrible coaches in the row has killed our football perception. The amount of misinformation out there on the Internet about UConn is simply insane.

Mora can go a long way fixing that by beating NCST on 8/31/23, but the B12 might be done expanding by then.

It is crazy how previous adminstration screwed this up by hiring coach P, red pants, and washed up RE 2.0 when there were so many better coaching candidates available around that time.

The fact the B12 took UCF, Cincy, and Houston over UConn is just mind boggling.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Better brands.

Clemson > everyone
Virginia Tech > Texas Tech
Pittsburgh > Cincinnati

Even schools:
NC State = Oklahoma St
Duke = Kansas

On the flip side, TCU and Baylor over Georgia Tech and Syracuse.

Kansas St & Iowa St are afterthoughts like BC and Wake Forest.

But beyond all this, the B12 will have 4 schools in Texas, with none of them being the top 2 schools.

Then the B12 will have a bunch of sparsely populated Plains states.

The ACC, meanwhile, will have population centers in the south atlantic seaboard. More people living in ACC states.

UConn is a better brand than most B12 schools right now. Instead, the perception is we are literally dog shit because of football due to 3 horrible hires in the row. The fact red pants and RE2.0 got long leashes also killed us. It was obvious both of those guys were way over their heads early in their coaching stints. UConn should have fired them much earlier than they did.

 

[uconnyankee]

But are there landing spots for 7 ACC teams? I doubt it. I think it’s a different landscape than when the big east fell apart

Yes. If big and sec are at 18 or 20, Big 12 will come poaching too.

Pitt, Louisville, Syracuse and even nc state would be targets.

Only option for ACC is WV. Not sure they’d go if so many are exiting and Big 12 is more easy.

 

[tzznandrew]

I agree with you on UNC and UVA, and think that they will go to the B1G. However, I don't see Duke going with them. I also agree with VT and NC State going to the SEC. However, you have Clemson and FSU going to the B12, and most people, myself included, have them going to the SEC. No conference has ever dissolved, as they all pull teams from a conference below them, so I see the P12 and ACC surviving, but becoming G5's.

I mean, who knows, right?

If I'm the SEC, I don't particularly care about the second best program in Florida or South Carolina. As for Duke, they fit a lot of what the B1G likes as it likes to play to the academic crowd. In an endgame many years off, Duke-Northwestern-Stanford would share a conference, and there's a way that makes a lot of sense.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Every team in the Big XII s committed to the success of the Big XII, likely because they know they will ride or die with the conference. There won't be a BIG/SEC life raft for current BigXII teams if the death star gets used on the BigXII. This is why the BigXII should be very careful about adding teams like Oregon/Washington (if that is even possible.)

Meanwhile the ACC is the exact opposite. There are at least 7 teams in the ACC (the Magnificent 7) who have indicated they are unhappy with the current ACC. As we saw in the old BE, nothing destroys a conference faster than when members aren't committed to its long term survival. If the ACC doesn't make any additions based on the current PAC uncertainty then it goes to show the power brokers in the ACC (FSU and Clemson) don't want the conference to survive and will be out as soon as they legally can exit.

As it currently stands, the ACC is a better geographic/partner fit but it is not a better long term, stable place for UConn. The next few weeks will tell us everything we need to know about whether the ACC is committed to its survival. If the ACC doesn't add teams they are a dead conference walking.

Can we not call them the magnificent 7. That is Brett McMurphy trying to curry favor with ACC folk. There is nothing magnificicent about them.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

If the ACC is smart, they get a media consultant and start discussing what kind of media deal they can get if they never with the PAC-9. They can use that to either form a new conference or just absorb them into the ACC especially if B1G isn't ready to expand yet. You do this before B1G makes its move.

You get this in writing from all the current ACC members to dissolve the conference in order to get out of the GOR, and you get them to sign a contract to be in the new conference simultaneously.

ACC isn't forward thinking, so they will never think out of box like this.

 

[businesslawyer]

If the ACC is smart, they get a media consultant and start discussing what kind of media deal they can get if they never with the PAC-9. They can use that to either form a new conference or just absorb them into the ACC especially if B1G isn't ready to expand yet. You do this before B1G makes its move.

You get this in writing from all the current ACC members to dissolve the conference in order to get out of the GOR, and you get them to sign a contract to be in the new conference simultaneously.

ACC isn't forward thinking, so they will never think out of box like this.

What makes you think that if the conference disbands, ESPN loses the right to the current members’ home games for the next dozen years?

You really think you can get around contracts that easily? You’d be wrong. Google the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

What makes you think that if the conference disbands, ESPN loses the right to the current members’ home games for the next dozen years?

You really think you can get around contracts that easily? You’d be wrong. Google the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing.

You are correct. If majority schools in the ACC agreed to disband the ACC, they should be able to get out of the ESPN media GOR correct? If not, then this plan won't work.

The new entity just can't go back and try to get a better deal with ESPN. They will have to work with FOX and/or other streaming platforms to get a new deal.

Of course, this will require massive amount of planning with everything agreed on prior before disbanding the ACC. I am just thinking some ideas, but I am under no illusion this will happen.

 

[billybud]

ESPN has no contracr with the schools...they have a contr

What makes you think that if the conference disbands, ESPN loses the right to the current members’ home games for the next dozen years?

You really think you can get around contracts that easily? You’d be wrong. Google the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing.

Not that it would happen...but if the ACC disbanded, ESPN would have a contract but with a non existant entity.

ESPN has no contract with the schools, but rather with the conference.

The schools, via GOR, assigned their media rights to the ACC, the conference then contracted with ESPN.

Since the ACC is a North Carolina non profit, the NC statute regarding non ptofit dissolution would govern...