Big 12 Invites TCU

[toppencil]

Let's hope the remaining 6 have worked a package deal to Big 12 football. I guess I'm optimistic, but I hope some are allowed to join for football only; if they desire it. A lot can happen in 27 months, so whatever happens next, it is not the end.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Nelson's entire premise is based upon every school putting aside their own interests for more money and stability in favor of the wing and a prayer that if they could have just stuck together a little longer everything might have been okay.

Their self-interest should have been to stick together and get paid in a year for being in a league where any team could win in football and they sent 50% of the schools to the NCAA Tournament. Instead, a few schools escape and everyone else is screwed.

Assume 9 people are standing in a room and all believed they would get $500k in a year if they just stayed in the room. Or, the first 3-4 that left the room would get $500k but everyone else would get shot in the head. Would it be a smart bet to make a run for the door? Because that is pretty much exactly what just happened.

 

[noeynox]

You have a 100% track record in predicting things after they have happened. Congratulations. Where did the stock market finish yesterday? I will go into the attic and get my time machine so i can profit from that information.

What is your plan? Complain? Blast any poster that has a constructive idea? Congratulate Herbst on a job well done, because never in history has a team coming off a conference championship in football and a national championship in basketball been knocked out of a major conference. UConn is about to make history.

You are just hoping against hope at this point. Pitt and SU leaving was huge blow, you have been downplaying its impact by saying things like it is "Just Pitt and Syracuse". It is not the quality of the football programs that will be missed, it is the illusion of the Big East being a stable, vibrant conference going forward, that other schools WANT to join. The only schools that want to come here are schools currently not in BCS conferences. Even the Big 12, with their exodus of three schools, possibly four, in two years to leave the conference can poach a Big East school to be.

I agree with you, that for the schools left behind they HAVE to make the Big East work, because the BCS bid is tied to that name, but no school currently here is going to make the blood oath you are requiring of them and that frankly, is necessary to make it work, and why I think the Big East basketball schools are going to decide it is in their best interest to NOT have football in the mix.

We/UConn are not in an enviable position right now, but just like you say Herbst's plan of "beg harder" isn't working, neither is the plan to "hope harder" that the remaining schools sign an albatross agreement since they are ALL looking for lifeline.

 

[HuskyHawk]

You have a 100% track record in predicting things after they have happened. Congratulations. Where did the stock market finish yesterday? I will go into the attic and get my time machine so i can profit from that information.

What is your plan? Complain? Blast any poster that has a constructive idea? Congratulate Herbst on a job well done, because never in history has a team coming off a conference championship in football and a national championship in basketball been knocked out of a major conference. UConn is about to make history.

Well it still can't happen, as Pitt and Syracuse are stuck in the BE for two seasons. As are UL, Cincy and WVU. So even if two more are poached (WVU and UL), the elimination of the BE as a BCS football conference will probably not follow our NC championship and conf. championship.

Herbst has played this as well as she could. Colorado and Nebraska defected first. Then A&M leaving ultimately cost the BE TCU. Nothing to be done there. TCU wanted in the Big XII before we invited them. Pitt and Cuse put the league on life support. Once the Pac 12 stayed as is, the Big XII became a more stable and attractive league than the BE, and a possible merger became impossible. With the defections of 2010, plus A&M, it needed at least one school, maybe 3. TCU is the first. If Missouri leaves, they need another one for sure, possibly 3. It is a more appealing league than the BE. There is nothing, nothing, that anyone in the BE or Herbst could possibly do about that. No matter what was said or done, if asked to go to the Big XII, TCU, UL, Cincy and WVU would and will accept.

Now if she had magic powers, and used a Jedi Mind Trick, she could convince Penn State and ND to join for all sports. In which case, Pitt and Cuse stay, we probably dump TCU. Now we have great appeal and can try to pry BC and UMD from the ACC. But it's a pipe dream.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

You are just hoping against hope at this point. Pitt and SU leaving was huge blow, you have been downplaying its impact by saying things like it is "Just Pitt and Syracuse". It is not the quality of the football programs that will be missed, it is the illusion of the Big East being a stable, vibrant conference going forward, that other schools WANT to join. The only schools that want to come here are schools currently not in BCS conferences. Even the Big 12, with their exodus of three schools, possibly four, in two years to leave the conference can poach a Big East school to be.

I agree with you, that for the schools left behind they HAVE to make the Big East work, because the BCS bid is tied to that name, but no school currently here is going to make the blood oath you are requiring of them and that frankly, is necessary to make it work, and why I think the Big East basketball schools are going to decide it is in their best interest to NOT have football in the mix.

We/UConn are not in an enviable position right now, but just like you say Herbst's plan of "beg harder" isn't working, neither is the plan to "hope harder" that the remaining schools sign an albatross agreement since they are ALL looking for lifeline.

So you are saying we should give up? More stuff I can use.

 

[tduconn]

Not good at all. I think everyone had some bad dreams if they believed other BE football schools will not jump to more stable BCS/super conferences and follow the money....... let's not be dillusional.

UConn stands to loose a ton of money if it can't get to a stable conference. A HUGE loss of money! No more bowl sharing revenue realized when the current BE schools had 4-6 teams in all types of bowls. The new BE will not be sending 4-6 teams to bowls. It would not surprise me if the MWC takes the BCS moniker from the BE. Certainly it will be a much stronger league IF/WHEN the departure of WVU, Cinn, Louisville occurs.

I'm really afraid if all this shakes out in the worst case senario, TV revenues and attendance revenues will also drop. If we think BB revenues will make up for this loss we're even more dillusional than I want to think.

The Big 12 fired their commissioner because of their self perceived league collapse. And now it appears they may be righting their ship. Meanwhile the BE boat just sprung another leak......

Oh wait ! The league can still be saved ....we'll add/upgrade Villanova. Seems that cocept has held everyone together pretty good so far! NOT!!!!

I appologize for my sarcasm to everyone. I really love UConn, but right now my fears are peaking and I'm sick to my stomache!

 

[fortebleedsblue]

The answer to all of this is simple.... KEEP CHOPPIN' !!!!!

 

[mattp]

Until they remove the cap on conference BCS teams. And vote 5-1 against the Big East having an autobid.

i dont' think the autobid is determined by vote. IIRC there's a formula that takes into account things like teams rankings and performance, and i'm pretty sure i remember reading in an article a couple of years ago that according to the formula the ACC was closer to losing their bid than we were. does anyone know remember the particulars of keeping a BCS autobid.

also if they remove the two spot limit for the BCS, it'll be because they add another BCS bowl game, not because they take away someone else's bid

 

[noeynox]

So you are saying we should give up? More stuff I can use.

There is only one answer and you know it. Whatever/whoever is left in the Big East adds the usual suspects ECU, UCF, maybe Memphis etc. You hope one of em catches lighting in a bottle via playing in a BCS conference, ala WVU and Louisville and win a BCS game and BCS formula stabilizes the Big East for a while. Unfortunately, until OTHER conferences decide they are done, the Big East is in danger of being poached further. It sucks, but it is the reality of OUR situation. All of that is without the BBall schools deciding they don't want the headache of BCS football any further.

 

[businesslawyer]

It wasn't just Herbst that got us here. It was a team effort among the Big East presidents. But Herbst can control her own actions, and those actions have been destructive to the league and to UConn. In the end, maybe there was nothing anyone could do to keep UConn from being a member of CUSA North. But her plan had no chance of success. Any investment banker would tell her you can't sell a company by saying "pretty please". UConn's athletic department is a company, and Herbst didn't get it sold.

When UConn is coming off a BCS bowl and a basketball national championship in the wealthiest state in the country, and we will be one of maybe 3 or 4 current BCS schools that end up on the outside on this round of realignment, I am inclined to say someone screwed up.

And people can seriously discuss that with you if, by June of 2014, when Syracuse and Pitt are scheduled to leave, UConn is f###ed. However, you are drawing conclusions less than three weeks into a 120 week period.

 

[SAMCRO]

It wasn't just Herbst that got us here. It was a team effort among the Big East presidents. But Herbst can control her own actions, and those actions have been destructive to the league and to UConn.

If only Herbst had gone to that meeting in NY, and swore the UConn was committed to building the Big East. Had she done that, then TCU would have said "no thanks B12, we're sticking with the BE". and every other BE FB school would have committed long term to building the BE. Oh well......

 

[mattp]

What is your plan? Complain? Blast any poster that has a constructive idea? Congratulate Herbst on a job well done, because never in history has a team coming off a conference championship in football and a national championship in basketball been knocked out of a major conference. UConn is about to make history.

Herbst started working here last April. all of the wheels that were set into motion to "destroy the BE" happened before we were even a full Big East member. what the hell do you think should have happened differently?

i find it odd that you say someone else's only answer is to complain and blast any posters with a constructive idea when all you've done about this is complain that Uconn and Susan Herbst should have done something differently 10 years ago to prevent this, when we weren't even making BE football decisions at that time. all you've said is by letting ourselves get into this position everyone should be fired, and we should start a new conference with Deleware, Temple, UMass and some other nonsense. you want to leave the BE for no other reason than you don't like the situation we've ended up in, even though the alternative conferecne you've proposed would be about a half notch below the MAC.

 

[businesslawyer]

Their self-interest should have been to stick together and get paid in a year for being in a league where any team could win in football and they sent 50% of the schools to the NCAA Tournament. Instead, a few schools escape and everyone else is screwed.

Assume 9 people are standing in a room and all believed they would get $500k in a year if they just stayed in the room. Or, the first 3-4 that left the room would get $500k but everyone else would get shot in the head. Would it be a smart bet to make a run for the door? Because that is pretty much exactly what just happened.

See, you've just assumed that there were no advantages to Syracuse and Pitt leaving. No prestige in being part of the best or second best, academically, collection of big time college football schools. No stability in being in a conference where the members had a greater unity of interest. No long-term economic advantage of being in a conference where more people watch games (it was possible the Big East, due to timing, would get a contract surpassing the ACC's, but given their bigger fanbases why would one assume that would hold up over time).

Pitt and Syracuse did not move irrationally viewed in their own self interests. Were they selfish? Duh. Might their move turn out worse for them than if the Big EAst stuck together? That 's possible but guess what -- every decision you make might turn out to be the wrong one. But their judgments were perfectly rational.

 

[ctchamps]

Nothing has changed. The SEC, the B!G and the PAC are definitely surviving. The question is still which of the ACC, BE and B12 survives and in what configuration. That is still playing out and the BE looks the most vulnerable currently. I'm proposing one possible development, which is a long shot but not out of the question.

The SEC can kill any future competition with the ACC once and for all if they take FSU, Clemson and VT, assuming those schools are interested in moving. So the SEC has to decide if making their conference superiority in the Southeast even greater than it exists today, and destroying what might someday be their rival, is a better strategic move than compromising some member schools fears regarding recruiting. Florida will have to decide if getting rid of the ACC helps them more than cooperating with FSU. My feeling is the SEC would be foolish not taking this step. Florida and FSU will always be rivals whichever conference they are in. Why not make each other allies at the expense of 12 or so other schools in the ACC and gobble up the $$$. They don't gain any recruiting advantages by being in different conferences.

The B12 and the BE can complete the destruction of the ACC by merging all BE football schools with the B12. Again if the $$ are important, why not destroy one of the conferences in addition to making a conference stabile. A Big12 BE merger would be very attractive to markets, media and BCS every bit if not more than the ACC. So why not take out the ACC. This will leave the B!G the option of deciding whether they will stay as is or take some of the remaining ACC schools. BC, Miami, Syracuse and Pitt will be in a great BB conference, competing with the likes of Georgetown, Nova, and St. Johns.

 

[EricSD]

can't blame them at all. i'd have done exactly the same if i were them...

 

[businesslawyer]

Nothing has changed. The SEC, the B!G and the PAC are definitely surviving. The question is still which of the ACC, BE and B12 survives and in what configuration. That is still playing out and the BE looks the most vulnerable currently. I'm proposing one possible development, which is a long shot but not out of the question.

The SEC can kill any future competition with the ACC once and for all if they take FSU, Clemson and VT, assuming those schools are interested in moving. So the SEC has to decide if making their conference superiority in the Southeast even greater than it exists today, and destroying what might someday be their rival, is a better strategic move than compromising some member schools fears regarding recruiting. Florida will have to decide if getting rid of the ACC helps them more than cooperating with FSU. My feeling is the SEC would be foolish not taking this step. Florida and FSU will always be rivals whichever conference they are in. Why not make each other allies at the expense of 12 or so other schools in the ACC and gobble up the $$$. They don't gain any recruiting advantages by being in different conferences.

The B12 and the BE can complete the destruction of the ACC by merging all BE football schools with the B12. Again if the $$ are important, why not destroy one of the conferences in addition to making a conference stabile. A Big12 BE merger would be very attractive to markets, media and BCS every bit if not more than the ACC. So why not take out the ACC. This will leave the B!G the option of deciding whether they will stay as is or take some of the remaining ACC schools. BC, Miami, Syracuse and Pitt will be in a great BB conference, competing with the likes of Georgetown, Nova, and St. Johns.

Why can't that happen? Because with Texas and Oklahoma in the Big XII the Big XII's football rights are worth much, much, much, much more than the Big East's, and the Big XII would be nuts to invite UConn and RU and USF and Cincy to share in the revenues equally. Even if you totally ignored the geography.

The ACC is surviving. Period. Losing FSU, Clemson and VPI does not kill that league. The Big East, as a major league, will die. It might take a few years but the writing is unfortunately on the wall. The Big XII will survivive so long as at least one of Texas and OU stays there.

 

[mattp]

If only Herbst had gone to that meeting in NY, and swore the UConn was committed to building the Big East. Had she done that, then TCU would have said "no thanks B12, we're sticking with the BE". and every other BE FB school would have committed long term to building the BE. Oh well......

wait a minute, TCU pledged allegiance to the BE last Sunday, does that mean all the stuff i'm hearing on the internet is false about them moving to the Big 12?

 

[ctchamps]

Why can't that happen? Because with Texas and Oklahoma in the Big XII the Big XII's football rights are worth much, much, much, much more than the Big East's, and the Big XII would be nuts to invite UConn and RU and USF and Cincy to share in the revenues equally. Even if you totally ignored the geography.

The ACC is surviving. Period. Losing FSU, Clemson and VPI does not kill that league. The Big East, as a major league, will die. It might take a few years but the writing is unfortunately on the wall. The Big XII will survivive so long as at least one of Texas and OU stays there.

That assumes the BE schools insist on equal revenue sharing. Contracts could be structured to consider market value.

 

[minidarren]

You got to lighten up. We get that everything sucks right now. You don't have some special insight into that fact that no one else has.

My guess is that the vote is 6-0 against, with Marinatto voting against the Big East having a bid.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

wait a minute, TCU pledged allegiance to the BE last Sunday, does that mean all the stuff i'm hearing on the internet is false about them moving to the Big 12?

Everyone pledged allegiance until a better offer comes along. This is why it is a joke people giving UCONN a hard time about wanting to go to another conference. At least UCONN is honest with its intentions LOL.

Of course, TCU to the B12 is not surprising considering the geography fit. Good luck to them. Meanwhile, Marinatto is wondering whether to upgrade NOVA football LOL.

 

[businesslawyer]

That assumes the BE schools insist on equal revenue sharing. Contracts could be structured to consider market value.

Well, to some degree it does assume that. Because my guess is Uconn could get entrance into the ACC or even Big Ten tomorrow if it offered to contribute its TV rights to the pool and take nothing else. So, once you start assuming less than equal treatment, then you're just in negotiations. I think all the discussions to date assume Big East schools are going in as equal members. And, the problem with a conference bringing schools in as unequal members is that, while there is obviously short term monetary savings, you end up devaluing the asset to the point that you don't really want it anyway.

 

[CTMike]

Their self-interest should have been to stick together and get paid in a year for being in a league where any team could win in football and they sent 50% of the schools to the NCAA Tournament. Instead, a few schools escape and everyone else is screwed.

Assume 9 people are standing in a room and all believed they would get $500k in a year if they just stayed in the room. Or, the first 3-4 that left the room would get $500k but everyone else would get shot in the head. Would it be a smart bet to make a run for the door? Because that is pretty much exactly what just happened.

-No, that's not pretty much exactly what happened. Let's not pretend that this is life and death, and that schools that left have blood on their hands or should feel any measure of guilt. They owe no responsibility except to their school and contsituents. They had an option on the table for more money and stability, and they quite reasonably accepted it.

-You seem to imply that you know each schools self interest better than the presidents who are making those actual decisions.

 

[Hoophound]

Well, to some degree it does assume that. Because my guess is Uconn could get entrance into the ACC or even Big Ten tomorrow if it offered to contribute its TV rights to the pool and take nothing else. So, once you start assuming less than equal treatment, then you're just in negotiations. I think all the discussions to date assume Big East schools are going in as equal members. And, the problem with a conference bringing schools in as unequal members is that, while there is obviously short term monetary savings, you end up devaluing the asset to the point that you don't really want it anyway.

That's a good point. I think if UCONN approaches the ACC with an offer like that and is still rebuffed it would be disastrous. The ACC would have to offer that option before I would go down that road. I certainly wouldn't let the public know that was on the table either.

 

[businesslawyer]

That's a good point. I think if UCONN approaches the ACC with an offer like that and is still rebuffed it would be disastrous. The ACC would have to offer that option before I would go down that road. I certainly wouldn't let the public know that was on the table either.

I don't think the conferences are looking to do that. It just creates instability and renegotiations. The Big Ten apparently considered it last time around and just dropped it.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

-No, that's not pretty much exactly what happened. Let's not pretend that this is life and death, and that schools that left have blood on their hands or should feel any measure of guilt. They owe no responsibility except to their school and contsituents. They had an option on the table for more money and stability, and they quite reasonably accepted it.

-You seem to imply that you know each schools self interest better than the presidents who are making those actual decisions.

UConn will lose hundreds of millions over the next 10 years from what Pitt and Syracuse did. Scholarships will be lost, and there will be an impact on the university if the football program is forced into CUSA. In financial terms, that is blood on their hands.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Herbst started working here last April. all of the wheels that were set into motion to "destroy the BE" happened before we were even a full Big East member. what the hell do you think should have happened differently?

i find it odd that you say someone else's only answer is to complain and blast any posters with a constructive idea when all you've done about this is complain that Uconn and Susan Herbst should have done something differently 10 years ago to prevent this, when we weren't even making BE football decisions at that time. all you've said is by letting ourselves get into this position everyone should be fired, and we should start a new conference with Deleware, Temple, UMass and some other nonsense. you want to leave the BE for no other reason than you don't like the situation we've ended up in, even though the alternative conferecne you've proposed would be about a half notch below the MAC.

The Delaware, Temple, Umass post was just acknowledging our current reality. Why is that nonsense? Are we about to get an invitation into the ACC?

 

[RS9999X]

After the SWAC breakup Texas has $150 million in revenues and the Tulane and Rices and SMUs in the $24 mil range

 

[businesslawyer]

UConn will lose hundreds of millions over the next 10 years from what Pitt and Syracuse did. Scholarships will be lost, and there will be an impact on the university if the football program is forced into CUSA. In financial terms, that is blood on their hands.

Every time you buy a foreign car, you increase the chances that some union member somewhere in Michigan will be laid off. Do you really consider that blood in your hands? Or are you just exercising your free will to spend your money in the manner that you deem best for you?

Every economic act that any of us takes produces winners and losers. You can't pretend that the Pitt and Syracuse decisions were any different, other than they hurt you. The only way to differentiate is to make a case that they actually breached a duty that they owed to the Big East or its members. But I have yet to see a persuasive argument of that (unless Pitt tanked the Big East's TV negotiations as a part of this, but I have no basis to think that actually happened and I very much doubt it did).

At least, that is common wisdom. I still think it is insane that state institutions, funded with taxpayer dollars, are acting in this manner but I'm clearly spitting into the wind on that.

 

[BlueMAB]

never in history has a team coming off a conference championship in football and a national championship in basketball been knocked out of a major conference. UConn is about to make history.

Which major conference is kicking us out?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Every time you buy a foreign car, you increase the chances that some union member somewhere in Michigan will be laid off. Do you really consider that blood in your hands? Or are you just exercising your free will to spend your money in the manner that you deem best for you?

Every economic act that any of us takes produces winners and losers. You can't pretend that the Pitt and Syracuse decisions were any different, other than they hurt you. The only way to differentiate is to make a case that they actually breached a duty that they owed to the Big East or its members. But I have yet to see a persuasive argument of that (unless Pitt tanked the Big East's TV negotiations as a part of this, but I have no basis to think that actually happened and I very much doubt it did).

At least, that is common wisdom. I still think it is insane that state institutions, funded with taxpayer dollars, are acting in this manner but I'm clearly spitting into the wind on that.

I could post the sky is blue and you would argue with it. You are wearing me out.