Better Job: St Johns or UC?

[ConnHuskBask]

People continue to say SJU has the better location, better conference, and is a better program.

Nobody in this entire thread has said St. John's is a better program. I went back and read the posts.

They may be a more attractive job due to the location, conference, and arena they play in though.

 

[Guapo]

Nobody in this entire thread has said St. John's is a better program. I went back and read the posts.

They may be a more attractive job due to the location, conference, and arena they play in though.

....The St Johns MSG is not the MSG we know and love.

It empty. It’s like playing in a morgue.

Fifth Third Arena, on the other hand, is brand new, on campus and packed. Great environment.

 

[polycom]

....The St Johns MSG is not the MSG we know and love.

It empty. It’s like playing in a morgue.

Fifth Third Arena, on the other hand, is brand new, on campus and packed. Great environment.

What happens when they aren't winning?

 

[aburks41]

Does St Johns really play in MSG if its always empty? Cincy is by far the better job. UConn is going to steal most great recruits coming out of NYC. None of them want to stick around and go to St Johns lmao

 

[Guapo]

What happens when they aren't winning?

We don’t know because they’ve been consistently winning going back to Bob Huggins; unlike St Johns...

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Wash. Cincinnati has had a better run of things I'd say overall the last few years. St John's to me is a sleeping giant, but I dunno- i've been saying that for 20 years and nothing's changed, so i'm probably just wrong.

This is the correct answer. Everything about SJ logically makes it a job where you should easily be able to win..... but there's something that just keeps that from happening.

 

[Dooley]

C'mon guys. This isn't a poll of what program plays (some of their games) in the better arena. This is a better job (i.e. program) poll. That's Cincinnati and it's nowhere near close. St John's plays the majority of their home slate on campus because they can't sell tickets without the help of a strong fan presence from whoever they're playing against.

Program history/tradition, ability to recruit, more program/conference exposure, more money, bigger fanbase support...all of that points to Cincinnati.

If St John's started funneling cash to recruits through sneaker companies and they somehow assemble a top 10 type recruiting class, it would be a lot of fun to see a Kentucky/Duke esque roster playing games at MSG. No question. But that hasn't happened yet and likely won't happen. The only programs able to pay the top recruits are all in the P5.

 

[uconnphil2016]

I'd say Cincy. I don't think kids think much of St John's anymore. They haven't been relevant in decades

 

[Guapo]

C'mon guys. This isn't a poll of what program plays (some of their games) in the better arena. This is a better job (i.e. program) poll. That's Cincinnati and it's nowhere near close. St John's plays the majority of their home slate on campus because they can't sell tickets without the help of a strong fan presence from whoever they're playing against.

Program history/tradition, ability to recruit, more program/conference exposure, more money, bigger fanbase support...all of that points to Cincinnati.

If St John's started funneling cash to recruits through sneaker companies and they somehow assemble a top 10 type recruiting class, it would be a lot of fun to see a Kentucky/Duke esque roster playing games at MSG. No question. But that hasn't happened yet and likely won't happen. The only programs able to pay the top recruits are all in the P5.

And St. John’s can no longer legally funnel cash to recruits because they were dumb and built dorms.

The day they built on campus housing is the day St. John’s basketball died.

 

[polycom]

We don’t know because they’ve been consistently winning going back to Bob Huggins; unlike St Johns...

You think having success with Bob Huggins, should be something that Cinci fans should keep in their minds when they are thinking about their next coach? Bob Huggins gets city kids to live in West Virginia I'd say he is an anomaly not the average.

 

[Guapo]

You think having success with Bob Huggins, should be something that Cinci fans should keep in their minds when they are thinking about their next coach? Bob Huggins gets city kids to live in West Virginia I'd say he is an anomaly not the average.

As in they should try and hire him?

 

[billybud]

I like the name "Johnnies"....

They should have been brought in to the ACC with Louisville...

The johns and the hookers...a natural ying-yang balance.

 

[polycom]

As in they should try and hire him?

No as in, they shouldn't use Bob Higgins success as the standard to judge their next coach by.

 

[BlueMAB]

Nobody in this entire thread has said St. John's is a better program. I went back and read the posts.

They may be a more attractive job due to the location, conference, and arena they play in though.

Edited to say "Job".

The rest of the post still stands. The better program is the better job.

 

[Lefty2one]

Cinncy.

It's never going to be the 80s or even the 90s again; St. John's isn't coming back. They can't use a loophole to pay players anymore, terrible and small on-campus arena, kids all over the country can play at MSG in various preseason/holiday/postseason tournaments so that isn't a selling point, a blah campus overall. Even the games they play at MSG, outside of Duke, have small crowds. NYC isn't a regional recruiting ground anymore; kids from there go all over the country--both for prep school and college. There's no recruiting advantage via proximity.

 

[Guapo]

No as in, they shouldn't use Bob Higgins success as the standard to judge their next coach by.

I think that’s fair. It’ll honestly be hard enough to find a coach that’ll maintain the regular season success that Cronin has had.

 

[UConnJim]

College basketball has changed. The great/good players are going to leave after 1 or 2 years. Cronin built a successful program at Cinci that was not dependent on the great players. He has only had 1 top 100 recruit in the last 5 years, Cumberland. He developed good and experienced teams that were tough, but they really didn't have star players and it showed in the NCAA tournament early exits. If Cronin's replacement can recruit better than Cronin, he can win at Cinci, but replacing Cronin's success won't be easy.

 

[don356]

Definitely Cincinnati, better facilities, and coaching in New York in anything is a pressure cooker. Not worth the hassle.

 

[A10 fan]

You'd think being in NYC would be a huge advantage, but then again, you'd think being in Chicago would be the same for DePaul. Times have changed. UCLA isn't exactly setting the world on fire, despite being in LA. St. John's is as relevant to an 18 year old today, as ancient powers St. Bonaventure, or Duquesne were 30 years ago, when they were 15 years into their declines. If it didn't happen within the last 5 years, it's as ancient as CCNY to high school kids. Walter Berry means about as much as to an 18 year old as Frank Selvy does.

 

[ecasadoSBU]

....The St Johns MSG is not the MSG we know and love.

It empty. It’s like playing in a morgue.

Fifth Third Arena, on the other hand, is brand new, on campus and packed. Great environment.

For the record. St. John's averaged 16,497 fans in their five MSG games this year (including the 10k attended Holiday Festival)... That's pretty solid attendance at the mecca

 

[UConnNick]

Anybody that thinks St. John's is a better job than Cincy is living in the past, just like the "back to the 'new' Big Leasters" on this forum.

The Bearcats have better facilities, a better TV deal, state support, and a comparatively way better program over the past 20 years or more. St. John's has a lousy campus, tiny 1960's era on campus HS gym, can't attract top level talent, and being on FOX sports has been a ratings disaster. The Ron Artest era was their last high point, about 20 years ago. Current recruits weren't even born yet. Nobody but die hard Redmen fans can even remember the true glory days under Carnesecca.

 

[superjohn]

You'd think being in NYC would be a huge advantage, but then again, you'd think being in Chicago would be the same for DePaul. Times have changed. UCLA isn't exactly setting the world on fire, despite being in LA. St. John's is as relevant to an 18 year old today, as ancient powers St. Bonaventure, or Duquesne were 30 years ago, when they were 15 years into their declines. If it didn't happen within the last 5 years, it's as ancient as CCNY to high school kids. Walter Berry means about as much as to an 18 year old as Frank Selvy does.

You lost credibility when you said St. John's is as relevant to kids as the Bonnie's and Duquesne. You should have thrown Holy Cross and the San Fran Dons in as well.

 

[superjohn]

For the record. St. John's averaged 16,497 fans in their five MSG games this year (including the 10k attended Holiday Festival)... That's pretty solid attendance at the mecca

This idea that they can't attract fans is nonsense, you attract fans anywhere in the country if you win. To think NYC won't support a good Johnnie's team is asinine.

 

[billybud]

Having local support is different from being nationally relevant...

 

[A10 fan]

You lost credibility when you said St. John's is as relevant to kids as the Bonnie's and Duquesne. You should have thrown Holy Cross and the San Fran Dons in as well.

Reading comprehension will get you far. I said as those programs were 30 years ago, not now. 30 years ago those programs were 15 or so years removed from being among the powers in eastern basketball. It meant nothing to recruits then, and Louie means nothing to recruits now. I doubt that Houston is now rolling because of what Guy Lewis did, and for what it's worth, Houston in the 80s, was quite a bit better than St. John's was in the same era.
Holy Cross, and San Fran fit nicely into my point, as does LaSalle. Hell, I could have added Pitt, and Syracuse football, and La. Tech women's hoops to the list of has been programs that no one cares about anymore. The point being, that kids care about who's on top now, not who was on top 15, 30, 50 years ago. Wichita St., and Xavier ring bells with the kids, St. John's and DePaul excite the over 50 crowd. Unfortunately, the over 50 crowd doesn't have any eligibility left.

 

[uconnyankee]

The ceiling at SJU is higher. It's a more desirable location to recruit, the media attention there is huge if you win, and you aren't overshadowed by other in-state schools.

Meh... St John's upside died with old Big East. Could someone come in and resurrect? Sure, but it's a big hill to climb.

 

[uconnyankee]

Reading comprehension will get you far. I said as those programs were 30 years ago, not now. 30 years ago those programs were 15 or so years removed from being among the powers in eastern basketball. It meant nothing to recruits then, and Louie means nothing to recruits now. I doubt that Houston is now rolling because of what Guy Lewis did, and for what it's worth, Houston in the 80s, was quite a bit better than St. John's was in the same era.
Holy Cross, and San Fran fit nicely into my point, as does LaSalle. Hell, I could have added Pitt, and Syracuse football, and La. Tech women's hoops to the list of has been programs that no one cares about anymore. The point being, that kids care about who's on top now, not who was on top 15, 30, 50 years ago. Wichita St., and Xavier ring bells with the kids, St. John's and DePaul excite the over 50 crowd. Unfortunately, the over 50 crowd doesn't have any eligibility left.

Whelp.... Is UConn on your list?

 

[uconnyankee]

No as in, they shouldn't use Bob Higgins success as the standard to judge their next coach by.

Are you talking about Jonathan Higgins from Magnum PI?

 

[superjohn]

Reading comprehension will get you far. I said as those programs were 30 years ago, not now. 30 years ago those programs were 15 or so years removed from being among the powers in eastern basketball. It meant nothing to recruits then, and Louie means nothing to recruits now. I doubt that Houston is now rolling because of what Guy Lewis did, and for what it's worth, Houston in the 80s, was quite a bit better than St. John's was in the same era.
Holy Cross, and San Fran fit nicely into my point, as does LaSalle. Hell, I could have added Pitt, and Syracuse football, and La. Tech women's hoops to the list of has been programs that no one cares about anymore. The point being, that kids care about who's on top now, not who was on top 15, 30, 50 years ago. Wichita St., and Xavier ring bells with the kids, St. John's and DePaul excite the over 50 crowd. Unfortunately, the over 50 crowd doesn't have any eligibility left.

Your point is a bit nonsensical though. Bonnies and Duquesne have 11 all-time tournament appearances between them, they are in Buffalo and Pittsburgh and play in the A-10. St. John's has 30 all-time tournament appearances they're in NYC, play in the Big East, and have the Garden. Those other programs have to luck into finding 2 and 3 star diamond in the rough players, St. John's still attracts 4 stars and occasionally 5 stars. Wichita St. is good because they have one of the best coaches in the country, if he leaves you got a program in the middle of nowhere Kansas that is only famous for 2 in the goo 1 in the...

Also, since you're such a creature of the moment you should have included UConn.

 

[Ewekon]

....The St Johns MSG is not the MSG we know and love.

It empty. It’s like playing in a morgue.

Fifth Third Arena, on the other hand, is brand new, on campus and packed. Great environment.

I just do not understand how it can be both fifth and third. Is it the weird chili spaghetti?