Better Job: St Johns or UC?

[uconnfan68]

Cincinnati....

31 NCAA appearances
6 Final Fours
2 NC's

Have won 11 NCAA tournament games since St. John's won their only one....

last FF for UC in 1992, last for SJU in 1985. Almost a wash.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I think that is partly correct. And add the growth of pro sports generally. Before Magic and Larry joined the NBA bankruptcy was being openly discussed for example. But the Bruins and the Red Sox were always dominant in Boston. And while it wasn’t being Catholic alone that drew fans to BC, it was that they were everywhere in every parish. I joke with a friend of mine who is a BC alum “Did you know Tommy O’brien When you were at BC?” And he says”Which Tommy O’brien?” The one from Hyde Park. “ Which one?” Pretty much every Catholic Church and every affiliated organization had a bunch of BC guys or parents of BC students. In my little neighborhood growing up there were 7 college grads among my friends fathers. 5 were BC guys. 1 went to Holy Cross and the other one went to the University of Ohio, where he grew up. And 3 of my friends went there. And they played a form of major college football and basketball so they were the local team. My sister and her family live there now. Way more college grads but no BC grads. Some UMASS and various other public Schools, a UConn guy (we compare notes when I visit). Various other colleges represented based on decals on there cars. They would have to be very good to ever get back the fan base they had in the 80s and before.

I have lots of friends that are BC grads, moreso than any other school for sure - not a majority by any stretch but the largest alumni base in Boston. What they have in common isn't being catholic, it is being totally apathetic about BC sports. In some cases anti-BC for the alumni $ grabs.

And one of these friends works in recruiting. He & I had an interesting debate a few years ago about the value of educations and he was adamant that a BC degree was worth more than my UConn degree. I disagreed then, but he certainly had a point as it applies to Boston that there is still a massive network of BC folks that will and can help you, and therefore your odds of getting seen with a BC degree are simply better. He is an executive recruiter and believes your salary is actually higher with a BC degree.

Regardless if that's true or not, global point is BC grads are stickier to Boston than other schools' grads because BC has a good network.

I still attend a BC industry event once a year or so, can't say that I do the same for other schools like Harvard and MIT that have better programs in my industry. BC simply has more people and better networking opportunities at their events.

 

[Guapo]

The Boston sports market takes kind of a bizarre pride in not caring about college sports.

 

[Pudge]

The Boston sports market takes kind of a bizarre pride in not caring about college sports.

Led by sportswriters and shock sport jocks on radio.

In a place where ONE key sportswriter cares, it’s a different dynamic. I do think guys like Dick Weiss made caring for CBB cool.

 

[Excalibur]

I have lots of friends that are BC grads, moreso than any other school for sure - not a majority by any stretch but the largest alumni base in Boston. What they have in common isn't being catholic, it is being totally apathetic about BC sports. In some cases anti-BC for the alumni $ grabs.

And one of these friends works in recruiting. He & I had an interesting debate a few years ago about the value of educations and he was adamant that a BC degree was worth more than my UConn degree. I disagreed then, but he certainly had a point as it applies to Boston that there is still a massive network of BC folks that will and can help you, and therefore your odds of getting seen with a BC degree are simply better. He is an executive recruiter and believes your salary is actually higher with a BC degree.
.

If he’s an executive recruiter he knows that by the time you get to the executive level, your degree means nothing.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Nonsense. St Johns hasn’t been a relevant job since the 1990s. And while you aren’t overshadowed by other schools you will always be an afterthought behind the Knicks, Nets, Giants, Jets, Yankees, Mets, Redbulls. You are competing with other comparable programs nearby too if they get their acts together. Seton Hall. Fordham (ok A10 but if they start winning they’ll be the local darlings)

NYC might have been the center of college basketball in 1957 but the center has long ago moved to the large state schools.

Cincinatti is in an area where college basketball is actually appreciated and I know it’s hard to believe for Gotham centric folks from this area, but kids play ball in Cincinatti too. Decent sized city with a fair amount of activity going on.

St Johns ceased being relevant about 25 years ago. It isn’t coming back. Cinci might have a ceiling but so do the Johnnies

It’s as if people have no idea that Cincinnati is on the Kentucky border and isn’t far from Indiana either. The southern suburbs of Cincinnati and its airport are in Kentucky. This is not Idaho or South Dakota. It’s deep in college hoops territory.

It’s easily the better job in my opinion. They can likely pay more than SJ and the cost of living is much, much less.

 

[Dogdeacon]

If he’s an executive recruiter he knows that by the time you get to the executive level, your degree means nothing.

Sure, yet this is about BC's influence in Boston yet lack thereof in Boston sports. Not the precise role or title of my friend 1. I don't know 2. He got out of recruiting a year or so ago and got in the game - I don't know where, he's a guy I play ball and drink beers with not interview about his job description.

Yet also generally yeah, your argument was same as mine, school doesn't matter but for that first job. Might be true or might be why working as a recruiter is next to dental hygienist in jobs I could never do.

 

[UConnNick]

So effectively, they don't draw at MSG at all. Their opponent does. Not exactly an advantage.

Some folks here are either too young to remember, or have forgotten the "Ticketgate" nonsense back when St. John's was actually really good during the Mike Jarvis/Ron Artest days. Jarvis was forced to hoard game tickets for the UCONN games at MSG because we would buy tickets on the secondary market and outnumber the Johnny fans 2 to 1. And it's been all downhill from then for St. John's. That's downhill from having to hold back tickets so as not to be playing away games at MSG even when they were good. That tells you all you need to know.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Led by sportswriters and shock sport jocks on radio.

In a place where ONE key sportswriter cares, it’s a different dynamic. I do think guys like Dick Weiss made caring for CBB cool.

Bob Ryan cares and so did Lobel who was one of the key guys in media for a long time, second/third only to maybe Will McDonough or Ryan. The College sports dog just don't hunt in Boston.

 

[billybud]

BC had a string of eight straight bowl wins from 2000-2007.

Since 2007, they have only had a couple of decent years.

I don't know why they fell off...but like any team, it usually has something to do with QB play.

 

[Guapo]

BC had a string of eight straight bowl wins from 2000-2007.

Since 2007, they have only had a couple of decent years.

I don't know why they fell off...but like any team, it usually has something to do with QB play.

In 2007 (I think, the year with Matt Ryan?) when they got up to #2 and were hosting some other ranked team (Clemson maybe?).

The Bruins were hosting the Red Wings (a regular season, NHL game in November) and that was like a much MUCH bigger deal in Boston than #2 BC football that Saturday.

(Source: me, I was there)

 

[NatiHuskiFan]

I’m biased with Cincinnati and having never been to NYC or Queens. The new arena is spot on! Really UC’s entire campus and surrounding area is amazing compared to 10-15 years ago. The energy from students has been as good as the days of Huggy Bear. I still think whoever is the coach will not be frowned upon for not making it past the first weekend of NCAA tourney. This city lives for the tiniest piece of postseason anything lol

 

[billybud]

In 2007 (I think, the year with Matt Ryan?) when they got up to #2 and were hosting some other ranked team (Clemson maybe?).

The Bruins were hosting the Red Wings (a regular season, NHL game in November) and that was like a much MUCH bigger deal in Boston than #2 BC football that Saturday.

(Source: me, I was there)

...BC played at Clemson that day in 2007.

I don't know about national TV ratings back in 2007...but when ranked BC met Clemson November, 2018....it was a national draw.

ABC’s Saturday Night Football featuring Clemson at Boston College (8 p.m. ET) was college football’s highest-rated prime-time game in week 11, followed by ESPN’s telecast of Auburn at Georgia (7 p.m.). Now, 11 weeks into the season, ABC or ESPN has aired the sport’s highest-rated prime-time game in nine of those weeks and the two networks have combined to air the two highest-rated primetime games in multiple weeks.

ATTENDANCE: 44,500

TV Watchers: 3.9 million

 

[Guapo]

...BC played at Clemson that day in 2007.

I don't know about national TV ratings back in 2007...but when ranked BC met Clemson November, 2018....it was a national draw.

ABC’s Saturday Night Football featuring Clemson at Boston College (8 p.m. ET) was college football’s highest-rated prime-time game in week 11, followed by ESPN’s telecast of Auburn at Georgia (7 p.m.). Now, 11 weeks into the season, ABC or ESPN has aired the sport’s highest-rated prime-time game in nine of those weeks and the two networks have combined to air the two highest-rated primetime games in multiple weeks.

ATTENDANCE: 44,500

Oh Clemson is definitely a national draw.

I reckon very few people tuning in were tuning in to watch BC

Also not sure that it was Clemson they were playing in 2007, but it was someone

 

[billybud]

Oh Clemson is definitely a national draw.

I reckon very few people tuning in were tuning in to watch BC

Well...twice as many viewers as Clemson-Louisville, Clemson-NC State, Clemson-GT, Clemson-Wake, etc

 

[billybud]

Oh..it was indeed Clemson at Clemson that BC played in November of 2007...only ranked team they played that month...

Maybe your memory is a little untrustworthy....heck, I fashion memory around my biases as well.

I have never watched a hockey game on TV or in person...so imagining one as a national draw is beyond my ken.

 

[Guapo]

Oh..it was indeed Clemson at Clemson that BC played in November of 2007...only ranked team they played that month...

Maybe your memory is a little untrustworthy....heck, I fashion memory around my biases as well.

I have never watched a hockey game on TV or in person...so imagining one as a national draw is beyond my ken.

I wasn’t saying it was a national draw, I was just saying that the hockey game was a bigger deal in boston that day than the BC football game.

I know there are yarders on here that live in Boston that can back me up in saying that the Bruins, generally, are a much bigger deal than BC football

 

[Excalibur]

Well...twice as many viewers as Clemson-Louisville, Clemson-NC State, Clemson-GT, Clemson-Wake, etc

All afternoon games. Are you seriously trying to compare a prime time network game to those others?

 

[uconnbill]

SJ. due to location but it has been a crap show for a number of years now. They don't get the talent they used too. This isn't the 80's but still a better job overall

 

[Guapo]

SJ. due to location but it has been a crap show for a number of years now. They don't get the talent they used too. This isn't the 80's but still a better job overall

Everybody keeps saying “location” but it’s not like St Johns is on Broadway

 

[Dogdeacon]

I wasn’t saying it was a national draw, I was just saying that the hockey game was a bigger deal in boston that day than the BC football game.

I know there are yarders on here that live in Boston that can back me up in saying that the Bruins, generally, are a much bigger deal than BC football

Yep I barely remember the blip when Ryan or anyone else was at BC. I do remember going to a BC v Notre D game circa 97 that was such a big deal that neither my dad nor girlfriend that were both going could get me a ticket. So I stood outside and someone handed me one for free. That has occurred other times and it's emblematic of the apathy.

The bar to capture Boston sports fans for BC is set at Flutie and anything short of that doesn't move the needle.

 

[Pudge]

Face it billy bud ... we are just gonna be ornery on the topic of BC. We’d love to see the white walkers demolish them or that gang of barbaric horsemen.

 

[Dooley]

So effectively, they don't draw at MSG at all. Their opponent does. Not exactly an advantage.

Bingo.

The only advantage MSG is for St John's is that they can generate more money from selling tickets at MSG versus selling the dozen or so seats that they can sell for on-campus games. It was mentioned earlier in this thread above and is worth repeating: most teams play games at MSG these days with all the tournaments held there. Playing an additional handful of regular season games there in front of a 40/60 crowd split is not something that is going to sway a top recruit one bit. Heck, we have almost played as many times at MSG as SJU in the last few years via tournaments and annual games against the Fruit.

The only way that SJU could use MSG as an advantage is if they started funneling cash via dark web services to top recruits. Shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars to assemble a 'Fab Five' type recruiting class and tell them that they will play all home games at MSG (and televised) so that they can build their NBA Draft stock buzz. But like I said earlier, SJU doesn't have the money to do that. Only P5 programs can pay for the top recruits...hence the sudden odd surge of top recruits committing to garbage programs like Auburn, LSU and Illinois.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Great points Dooley. Maybe spread a bunch of future NCAA bets on Bama and Clemson!

 

[uconnbill]

Everybody keeps saying “location” but it’s not like St Johns is on Broadway

I'm just talking about being part of NYC, not the lousy location of the university