Better Job: St Johns or UC?

[SubInATub]

St. Johns is the better job. Better conference, better history, MSG, New York, etc..

Get a good coach and they will perform. Simple as that.

 

[aburks41]

St. Johns is the better job. Better conference, better history, MSG, New York, etc..

Get a good coach and they will perform. Simple as that.

Not 1 single high school recruit was alive the last time St Johns won a tournament game. Cincinnati is an established mid west program who can pull in recruits. NYC kids get snagged by UConn and the rest of the east coast Blue Bloods. None of them are even thinking about going to St Johns lmao

 

[crazyUCfan23]

I feel like St. Johns could succeed with the right coach, but, as has been alluded to on this board, that hasn't happened over the last 20 years. Although, I watched St. Johns a few times this year and they definitely had some talent and athletes. Haven't paid attention to who is leaving/returning, but if they make the right hire, it may not be as big of a rebuild as one would think. I would still take the Cincy job over it tho.

 

[SubInATub]

Not 1 single high school recruit was alive the last time St Johns won a tournament game. Cincinnati is an established mid west program who can pull in recruits. NYC kids get snagged by UConn and the rest of the east coast Blue Bloods. None of them are even thinking about going to St Johns lmao

LMAO !! omg! Looking at recruiting since Mullin has been there, St Johns really doesn't get any recruits!

Just get a better coach. Simple as that.

Recruiting Rankings
2018: SJU 46, Cincy 65
2017: SJU 48, Cincy 58
2016: SJU 24, Cincy 63
2015: SJU 26, Cincy 53

 

[freescooter]

The ceiling at SJU is higher. It's a more desirable location to recruit, the media attention there is huge if you win, and you aren't overshadowed by other in-state schools.

Nonsense. St Johns hasn’t been a relevant job since the 1990s. And while you aren’t overshadowed by other schools you will always be an afterthought behind the Knicks, Nets, Giants, Jets, Yankees, Mets, Redbulls. You are competing with other comparable programs nearby too if they get their acts together. Seton Hall. Fordham (ok A10 but if they start winning they’ll be the local darlings)

NYC might have been the center of college basketball in 1957 but the center has long ago moved to the large state schools.

Cincinatti is in an area where college basketball is actually appreciated and I know it’s hard to believe for Gotham centric folks from this area, but kids play ball in Cincinatti too. Decent sized city with a fair amount of activity going on.

St Johns ceased being relevant about 25 years ago. It isn’t coming back. Cinci might have a ceiling but so do the Johnnies

 

[Dogdeacon]

What did Mullin make last year vs I think Cronin made $2M? The pay is indicative of what's the better job.
And I'd think for a young coach St John's might afford more upside (do well get a better job) whereas Cincy would provide more stability, likelihood of very good but maybe not Nat'l C contender etc..
Also since for some it is such a big difference of living in Cincy vs New York I'm not sure that the comparison matters a lot.
It is close enough that certainly Cronin wouldn't have left Cincy for St John's and Mullin or Carnesecca aren't likely successors to Mick

 

[superjohn]

What did Mullin make last year vs I think Cronin made $2M? The pay is indicative of what's the better job.
And I'd think for a young coach St John's might afford more upside (do well get a better job) whereas Cincy would provide more stability, likelihood of very good but maybe not Nat'l C contender etc..
Also since for some it is such a big difference of living in Cincy vs New York I'm not sure that the comparison matters a lot.
It is close enough that certainly Cronin wouldn't have left Cincy for St John's and Mullin or Carnesecca aren't likely successors to Mick

Mullin made over 2 mil. per year.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Nonsense. St Johns hasn’t been a relevant job since the 1990s. And while you aren’t overshadowed by other schools you will always be an afterthought behind the Knicks, Nets, Giants, Jets, Yankees, Mets, Redbulls. You are competing with other comparable programs nearby too if they get their acts together. Seton Hall. Fordham (ok A10 but if they start winning they’ll be the local darlings)
NYC might have been the center of college basketball in 1957 but the center has long ago moved to the large state schools.
Cincinatti is in an area where college basketball is actually appreciated and I know it’s hard to believe for Gotham centric folks from this area, but kids play ball in Cincinatti too. Decent sized city with a fair amount of activity going on.
St Johns ceased being relevant about 25 years ago. It isn’t coming back. Cinci might have a ceiling but so do the Johnnies

I think some of that is right and harkens back to the apocryphal story of Calhoun being told by Bobby Knight to get a job at a place that starts with "University of _________".
I wonder in this debate of jobs where the BCU job* fits in. They are in THE conference, but a dramatic afterthought. The conference barely acknowledges that BC plays basketball or football in it. Boston produces players like anywhere else, but they don't choose BC. College athletics is a humongous 2nd to pro sports in Boston, 3 sports fans I spoke to yesterday didn't even know the national championship was Monday, others too late to watch. And for BCU the conference affiliation is actually a negative b/c any player that wants to be relevant in the ACC knows that BC is the least likely place for that to happen. So even if we can't decide whether Cincy or St John's is a better job, we can eliminate conference affiliation as a criteria because we conclude that Boston College University is absolutely a worse job than either.

*they are bringing back their coach, Jim Christian. Partially out of recognizing they are what they are and couldn't find a better coach and partially out of not recognizing that & doing bs things to try and improve. the Globe article link inside the link below from the BC interuption fan site just discusses locker rooms, conditioning and a recruiting budget, a small mention of two of the three elephants in the room: (1) low attendance fan apathy (no indication of how they'll address, (2) mention of travel concerns, again no solutions offered (why isn't this a problem for Cuse?) and (3) no mention of their unsolvable fish out of water status as an irrelevant ACC team.
Martin Jarmond Expands on Jim Christian Decision in Boston Globe

 

[freescooter]

Actually the Johnnies and the Besgles have some things in common in terms of fan base. Both have become far less relevant as their “hometowns” have become less Catholic. When I grew up in Boston back in the day rooting for the Eagles was a matter of Faith. Every parish had alumni, and students. Now they’ve become a national school and reportedly have an unofficial limit in the number of kids from both The Boston area and any individual Massachusetts town or city. The folks who were BC supporters then are dying off or moving to Florida. The folks who graduate from BC live in Charlotte or Nutley NJ or Chicago and aren’t going to games. And they’ve lost their local connection

It was similar for the Johnnies in Queens. Loacal kids went to school there and brought St Johns fever to the neighborhoods. And while they are not the national school BC is, The folks going to Our Lady of perpetual Resonsibility on Queens Boulevard today are more likely to be from the Dominican Republic or Puerto Rico or somewhere and their kids will go to a CCNY or a SUNY or somewhere, not St Johns. The folks who supported the Johnnies now live in Jersey or Fairfield County or Miami or StvRose Cemetary now.

 

[Towney007]

I think some of that is right and harkens back to the apocryphal story of Calhoun being told by Bobby Knight to get a job at a place that starts with "University of _________".
I wonder in this debate of jobs where the BCU job* fits in. They are in THE conference, but a dramatic afterthought. The conference barely acknowledges that BC plays basketball or football in it. Boston produces players like anywhere else, but they don't choose BC. College athletics is a humongous 2nd to pro sports in Boston, 3 sports fans I spoke to yesterday didn't even know the national championship was Monday, others too late to watch. And for BCU the conference affiliation is actually a negative b/c any player that wants to be relevant in the ACC knows that BC is the least likely place for that to happen. So even if we can't decide whether Cincy or St John's is a better job, we can eliminate conference affiliation as a criteria because we conclude that Boston College University is absolutely a worse job than either.

*they are bringing back their coach, Jim Christian. Partially out of recognizing they are what they are and couldn't find a better coach and partially out of not recognizing that & doing bs things to try and improve. the Globe article link inside the link below from the BC interuption fan site just discusses locker rooms, conditioning and a recruiting budget, a small mention of two of the three elephants in the room: (1) low attendance fan apathy (no indication of how they'll address, (2) mention of travel concerns, again no solutions offered (why isn't this a problem for Cuse?) and (3) no mention of their unsolvable fish out of water status as an irrelevant ACC team.
Martin Jarmond Expands on Jim Christian Decision in Boston Globe

The BC thing will always kill me - not ONLY that they basically destroyed the greatest thing ever created in college basketball, but when they got to the ACC and loaded up their pockets - that they did nothing. They're just existing, collecting checks.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Actually the Johnnies and the Besgles have some things in common in terms of fan base. Both have become far less relevant as their “hometowns” have become less Catholic. When I grew up in Boston back in the day rooting for the Eagles was a matter of Faith. Every parish had alumni, and students. Now they’ve become a national school and reportedly have an unofficial limit in the number of kids from both The Boston area and any individual Massachusetts town or city. The folks who were BC supporters then are dying off or moving to Florida. The folks who graduate from BC live in Charlotte or Nutley NJ or Chicago and aren’t going to games. And they’ve lost their local connection

It was similar for the Johnnies in Queens. Loacal kids went to school there and brought St Johns fever to the neighborhoods. And while they are not the national school BC is, The folks going to Our Lady of perpetual Resonsibility on Queens Boulevard today are more likely to be from the Dominican Republic or Puerto Rico or somewhere and their kids will go to a CCNY or a SUNY or somewhere, not St Johns. The folks who supported the Johnnies now live in Jersey or Fairfield County or Miami or StvRose Cemetary now.

Again I'd say partially correct in that back then Boston was smaller & though more Catholic I don't think that affiliation prompted people to be fans of BC. Moreso I think the unprecedented success of pro sports teams over the last 20 years has made what was already a pro sports town even more predominately professional sports and college slides evermore into background. Namely the Pats, Celtics & Bruins have all been consistently good and that sucks 95% of oxygen during college hoop season.

 

[don356]

LMAO !! omg! Looking at recruiting since Mullin has been there, St Johns really doesn't get any recruits!

Just get a better coach. Simple as that.

Recruiting Rankings
2018: SJU 46, Cincy 65
2017: SJU 48, Cincy 58
2016: SJU 24, Cincy 63
2015: SJU 26, Cincy 53

Unfortunately, they only count wins.

 

[billybud]

Unfortunately, they only count wins.

Cincinnati....

31 NCAA appearances
6 Final Fours
2 NC's

Have won 11 NCAA tournament games since St. John's won their only one....

 

[freescooter]

The BC thing will always kill me - not ONLY that they basically destroyed the greatest thing ever created in college basketball, but when they got to the ACC and loaded up their pockets - that they did nothing. They're just existing, collecting checks.

The New York Jets of college sports

 

[Dogdeacon]

The BC thing will always kill me - not ONLY that they basically destroyed the greatest thing ever created in college basketball, but when they got to the ACC and loaded up their pockets - that they did nothing. They're just existing, collecting checks.

1000% yes.
One might think this puts us in the world of rooting for BCU to do better to justify how badly they screwed UConn and everyone. Instead I Root for their forever banishment to purgatory for a mortal sin.

 

[SubInATub]

Unfortunately, they only count wins.

Yeah exactly, SJU is the better spot. Just need to hire better.

 

[Fishy]

I think they’re probably similar in stature. I would opt for Cincy, if I were to choose.

I think Cincinnati is easier; not a huge spotlight, good recruits in the area, solid school/financial support.

St. John’s a little trickier. You’re in New York, which is good. You’re competing for attention, which is bad. Your fan base is not huge, not loyal and not particularly bright. Every AAU and high school coach thinks they can tell you how to do your job. You play road games at MSG more often than not.

 

[Dooley]

For the record. St. John's averaged 16,497 fans in their five MSG games this year (including the 10k attended Holiday Festival)... That's pretty solid attendance at the mecca

St John's only plays at MSG when they play against an opponent that draws (i.e. brings a fair amount of their own fans to the game). Princeton, Georgetown, Villanova, Providence and Seton Hall. Princeton barely counts as that was part of a festival/tourney.

They NEVER schedule those new midwest small privates or any of the schools located outside of the northeast at MSG. That's because there is small-to-no interest in St John's basketball and those midwestern schools don't bring their fans to NYC for a regular season game. Basically, St John's draws at MSG only when the opponent is buzz worthy.

 

[UConnJim]

I think Cinci and St. John's have similar potential. People have won at both schools in the past which tells me that with commitment and the right coach, you can win at either school. That said, I think St. John's is the slightly better job at the moment due to being in NYC and playing big games at MSG. I think as AAC basketball develops and UConn and Memphis get better, Cinci will probably become the better job as I am more bullish on the AAC than the Big East in the LT.

 

[kibblesnbits]

SJU by a mile. The people that say Cincinnati are only saying that to bash the Big East.

Or they’ve actually been to Carnesecca “Arena.”

 

[don356]

Let's face it, unless you're a billionaire, living in the city is a pain in the a.s. Coaches work crazy hours, and most have families. It's not worth the hassle, nor the expense. I loved visiting there, but not living there.

 

[freescooter]

Again I'd say partially correct in that back then Boston was smaller & though more Catholic I don't think that affiliation prompted people to be fans of BC. Moreso I think the unprecedented success of pro sports teams over the last 20 years has made what was already a pro sports town even more predominately professional sports and college slides evermore into background. Namely the Pats, Celtics & Bruins have all been consistently good and that sucks 95% of oxygen during college hoop season.

I think that is partly correct. And add the growth of pro sports generally. Before Magic and Larry joined the NBA bankruptcy was being openly discussed for example. But the Bruins and the Red Sox were always dominant in Boston. And while it wasn’t being Catholic alone that drew fans to BC, it was that they were everywhere in every parish. I joke with a friend of mine who is a BC alum “Did you know Tommy O’brien When you were at BC?” And he says”Which Tommy O’brien?” The one from Hyde Park. “ Which one?” Pretty much every Catholic Church and every affiliated organization had a bunch of BC guys or parents of BC students. In my little neighborhood growing up there were 7 college grads among my friends fathers. 5 were BC guys. 1 went to Holy Cross and the other one went to the University of Ohio, where he grew up. And 3 of my friends went there. And they played a form of major college football and basketball so they were the local team. My sister and her family live there now. Way more college grads but no BC grads. Some UMASS and various other public Schools, a UConn guy (we compare notes when I visit). Various other colleges represented based on decals on there cars. They would have to be very good to ever get back the fan base they had in the 80s and before.

 

[superjohn]

Lol at all this parish talk, people don't follow BC because they suck. Same thing our here with DePaul.

 

[Pudge]

I think some of that is right and harkens back to the apocryphal story of Calhoun being told by Bobby Knight to get a job at a place that starts with "University of _________".
I wonder in this debate of jobs where the BCU job* fits in. They are in THE conference, but a dramatic afterthought. The conference barely acknowledges that BC plays basketball or football in it. Boston produces players like anywhere else, but they don't choose BC. College athletics is a humongous 2nd to pro sports in Boston, 3 sports fans I spoke to yesterday didn't even know the national championship was Monday, others too late to watch. And for BCU the conference affiliation is actually a negative b/c any player that wants to be relevant in the ACC knows that BC is the least likely place for that to happen. So even if we can't decide whether Cincy or St John's is a better job, we can eliminate conference affiliation as a criteria because we conclude that Boston College University is absolutely a worse job than either.

*they are bringing back their coach, Jim Christian. Partially out of recognizing they are what they are and couldn't find a better coach and partially out of not recognizing that & doing bs things to try and improve. the Globe article link inside the link below from the BC interuption fan site just discusses locker rooms, conditioning and a recruiting budget, a small mention of two of the three elephants in the room: (1) low attendance fan apathy (no indication of how they'll address, (2) mention of travel concerns, again no solutions offered (why isn't this a problem for Cuse?) and (3) no mention of their unsolvable fish out of water status as an irrelevant ACC team.
Martin Jarmond Expands on Jim Christian Decision in Boston Globe

We whine because we aren’t at the upper tier we are used to. It’s Coaching (we got used to a HoF once in a lifetime) and Talent (we still aren’t that far from recent classes). Strive to play in March in meaningful games.

BC’s solution? Nutrition (meantioned 5 times in the two articles) and Locker rooms. Yup throw 6 figures into FF&E. Virginia is instructive. You can compete. But there’s no reason to think BC will ever be a contender in that conference or nationally.

Then. “We’re about postseason basketball. We want to get there.” Yup.

 

[intlzncster]

They NEVER schedule those new midwest small privates or any of the schools located outside of the northeast at MSG. That's because there is small-to-no interest in St John's basketball and those midwestern schools don't bring their fans to NYC for a regular season game. Basically, St John's draws at MSG only when the opponent is buzz worthy.

So effectively, they don't draw at MSG at all. Their opponent does. Not exactly an advantage.