Better Job: St Johns or UC?

[Mokum]

UC. SJU has some old history and plays in the mecca. The SJU campus is crap and the facilities are not much better.

That’s what I was thinking as well.

 

[Guapo]

Isn't Charlotte the Queen City?

They both are, i guess

 

[Pudge]

Cincinnati

All day long

A major Public Academic Research University. Great basketball history. A fan base that is rabid. New facilities and great recent run of winning season.

Those that say Saint John’s ... this is dependent on LOCAL kids staying home. And that component of City fan rarely exists to support this in the 5 boroughs. The conference has little advantages - except to the BY whiners. Cincinnati is set up for success on a annual basis. The reason good coaches have fizzled out in Queens? Poor connectivity of college student athletes to community and greater relationship with the sport. The Johnnies just aren’t relevant.

Cronin won. A solid coach can win in the AAC with solid recruiting and advance to Sweet Sixteen or better.

 

[BlueMAB]

People continue to say SJU has the better location, better conference, and is a better job. Yet, they have only been to two final fours (none since 1985). They have no national championships. Only have 3 conference tourney championships (none since 2000) and haven't won a conference regular season since 1992. They haven't been to the sweet sixteen since 1999. Apparently playing in NYC isn't that attractive to good recruits or good coaches.

Cinci has 2 national titles, and while Cronin specialized in early exits, they did go to a sweet sixteen in 2012, and they have 9 straight tourney appearances. They have 4 conference tourney titles dating back to 2002, and six regular season titles dating back to 2000.

 

[tykurez]

Does SJU even have a fan base? Does anyone in NY/NJ care about that program at all? If the answer to those are “not really” then it’s Cinci by a mile.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

People continue to say SJU has the better location, better conference, and is a better program.

Nobody in this entire thread has said St. John's is a better program. I went back and read the posts.

They may be a more attractive job due to the location, conference, and arena they play in though.

 

[Guapo]

Nobody in this entire thread has said St. John's is a better program. I went back and read the posts.

They may be a more attractive job due to the location, conference, and arena they play in though.

....The St Johns MSG is not the MSG we know and love.

It empty. It’s like playing in a morgue.

Fifth Third Arena, on the other hand, is brand new, on campus and packed. Great environment.

 

[polycom]

....The St Johns MSG is not the MSG we know and love.

It empty. It’s like playing in a morgue.

Fifth Third Arena, on the other hand, is brand new, on campus and packed. Great environment.

What happens when they aren't winning?

 

[aburks41]

Does St Johns really play in MSG if its always empty? Cincy is by far the better job. UConn is going to steal most great recruits coming out of NYC. None of them want to stick around and go to St Johns lmao

 

[Guapo]

What happens when they aren't winning?

We don’t know because they’ve been consistently winning going back to Bob Huggins; unlike St Johns...

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Wash. Cincinnati has had a better run of things I'd say overall the last few years. St John's to me is a sleeping giant, but I dunno- i've been saying that for 20 years and nothing's changed, so i'm probably just wrong.

This is the correct answer. Everything about SJ logically makes it a job where you should easily be able to win..... but there's something that just keeps that from happening.

 

[Dooley]

C'mon guys. This isn't a poll of what program plays (some of their games) in the better arena. This is a better job (i.e. program) poll. That's Cincinnati and it's nowhere near close. St John's plays the majority of their home slate on campus because they can't sell tickets without the help of a strong fan presence from whoever they're playing against.

Program history/tradition, ability to recruit, more program/conference exposure, more money, bigger fanbase support...all of that points to Cincinnati.

If St John's started funneling cash to recruits through sneaker companies and they somehow assemble a top 10 type recruiting class, it would be a lot of fun to see a Kentucky/Duke esque roster playing games at MSG. No question. But that hasn't happened yet and likely won't happen. The only programs able to pay the top recruits are all in the P5.

 

[uconnphil2016]

I'd say Cincy. I don't think kids think much of St John's anymore. They haven't been relevant in decades

 

[Guapo]

C'mon guys. This isn't a poll of what program plays (some of their games) in the better arena. This is a better job (i.e. program) poll. That's Cincinnati and it's nowhere near close. St John's plays the majority of their home slate on campus because they can't sell tickets without the help of a strong fan presence from whoever they're playing against.

Program history/tradition, ability to recruit, more program/conference exposure, more money, bigger fanbase support...all of that points to Cincinnati.

If St John's started funneling cash to recruits through sneaker companies and they somehow assemble a top 10 type recruiting class, it would be a lot of fun to see a Kentucky/Duke esque roster playing games at MSG. No question. But that hasn't happened yet and likely won't happen. The only programs able to pay the top recruits are all in the P5.

And St. John’s can no longer legally funnel cash to recruits because they were dumb and built dorms.

The day they built on campus housing is the day St. John’s basketball died.

 

[polycom]

We don’t know because they’ve been consistently winning going back to Bob Huggins; unlike St Johns...

You think having success with Bob Huggins, should be something that Cinci fans should keep in their minds when they are thinking about their next coach? Bob Huggins gets city kids to live in West Virginia I'd say he is an anomaly not the average.

 

[Guapo]

You think having success with Bob Huggins, should be something that Cinci fans should keep in their minds when they are thinking about their next coach? Bob Huggins gets city kids to live in West Virginia I'd say he is an anomaly not the average.

As in they should try and hire him?

 

[billybud]

I like the name "Johnnies"....

They should have been brought in to the ACC with Louisville...

The johns and the hookers...a natural ying-yang balance.

 

[polycom]

As in they should try and hire him?

No as in, they shouldn't use Bob Higgins success as the standard to judge their next coach by.

 

[BlueMAB]

Nobody in this entire thread has said St. John's is a better program. I went back and read the posts.

They may be a more attractive job due to the location, conference, and arena they play in though.

Edited to say "Job".

The rest of the post still stands. The better program is the better job.

 

[Lefty2one]

Cinncy.

It's never going to be the 80s or even the 90s again; St. John's isn't coming back. They can't use a loophole to pay players anymore, terrible and small on-campus arena, kids all over the country can play at MSG in various preseason/holiday/postseason tournaments so that isn't a selling point, a blah campus overall. Even the games they play at MSG, outside of Duke, have small crowds. NYC isn't a regional recruiting ground anymore; kids from there go all over the country--both for prep school and college. There's no recruiting advantage via proximity.

 

[Guapo]

No as in, they shouldn't use Bob Higgins success as the standard to judge their next coach by.

I think that’s fair. It’ll honestly be hard enough to find a coach that’ll maintain the regular season success that Cronin has had.

 

[UConnJim]

College basketball has changed. The great/good players are going to leave after 1 or 2 years. Cronin built a successful program at Cinci that was not dependent on the great players. He has only had 1 top 100 recruit in the last 5 years, Cumberland. He developed good and experienced teams that were tough, but they really didn't have star players and it showed in the NCAA tournament early exits. If Cronin's replacement can recruit better than Cronin, he can win at Cinci, but replacing Cronin's success won't be easy.

 

[don356]

Definitely Cincinnati, better facilities, and coaching in New York in anything is a pressure cooker. Not worth the hassle.

 

[A10 fan]

You'd think being in NYC would be a huge advantage, but then again, you'd think being in Chicago would be the same for DePaul. Times have changed. UCLA isn't exactly setting the world on fire, despite being in LA. St. John's is as relevant to an 18 year old today, as ancient powers St. Bonaventure, or Duquesne were 30 years ago, when they were 15 years into their declines. If it didn't happen within the last 5 years, it's as ancient as CCNY to high school kids. Walter Berry means about as much as to an 18 year old as Frank Selvy does.

 

[ecasadoSBU]

....The St Johns MSG is not the MSG we know and love.

It empty. It’s like playing in a morgue.

Fifth Third Arena, on the other hand, is brand new, on campus and packed. Great environment.

For the record. St. John's averaged 16,497 fans in their five MSG games this year (including the 10k attended Holiday Festival)... That's pretty solid attendance at the mecca