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Best program in the NNNBE

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Creighton got a 6 once and did nothing with it. The tourney deck is stacked against the mid majors, but yes Creighton hasn't had the big run.

If you line up their seeds and work under the assumption that higher seeds 'should win' they have outperformed their seed the last 15 years.

If you only think a mid major is good when they pull an upset or two and nothing else matters than Lehigh and Cornell and FGCU are all better. Sure they can't draw what Creighton does in one night for a whole season - but if only the NCAA tourney counts that's how it it.
 
whaler11 said:
Creighton got a 6 once and did nothing with it. The tourney deck is stacked against the mid majors, but yes Creighton hasn't had the big run.

If you line up their seeds and work under the assumption that higher seeds 'should win' they have outperformed their seed the last 15 years.

If you only think a mid major is good when they pull an upset or two and nothing else matters than Lehigh and Cornell and FGCU are all better. Sure they can't draw what Creighton does in one night for a whole season - but if only the NCAA tourney counts that's how it it.
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No need to strawman me here. I said from the beginning that I respect them...they deserve more credit than upstater and others are giving them. I largely agree, which is why I did preface it with that.

But they weren't in the league Lehigh or Florida Gulf Coast are in. They're in a league that, with a good enough regular season, you can get favorable seeding. And their regular season hasn't been enough to justify a Top 5 seed yet.

This year will change that, though, I suspect.
 
whaler11 said:
You really don't get the irony of being a cycling fan and mocking
'Creighton' though do you? It
seems so obvious it would be hard
to miss.
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No I don't. I imagine "Creighton" caddy corner to vacant lot with the broken down tractor and the Omaha Zoo.

Not all of us can achieve the pinnacle of being overweight golfers who like only mainstream sports and obscure schools in Nebraska.
 
ZooCougar said:
No I don't. I imagine "Creighton" caddy corner to vacant lot with the broken down tractor and the Omaha Zoo.

Not all of us can achieve the pinnacle of being overweight golfers who like only mainstream sports and obscure schools in Nebraska.
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I'm starting to suspect that "Creighton" had a threesome with Zoo and upstaters wives.
 
whaler11 said:
I'm starting to suspect that "Creighton" had a threesome with Zoo and upstaters wives.
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Listen up Whaler, racing bikes is awesome. Lacrosse is awesome. Rooting for Creighton is for the dudes who are all worried about the impending Velveeta shortage.

Get with it.
 
ZooCougar said:
Listen up Whaler, racing bikes is awesome. Lacrosse is awesome. Rooting for Creighton is for the dudes who are all worried about the impending Velveeta shortage.

Get with it.
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Lacrosse is terrible. The goals come too cheap and it can't decide if it's physical or not. They could replace the goalies with small amounts of plywood and no one would notice.

I don't know anyone who roots for Creighton but if I meet someone I'll pass along the Velveeta thing.
 
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whaler11 said:
I don't know anyone who roots for Creighton but if I meet someone I'll pass along the Velveeta thing.
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One of my good friends fathers was the team doctor for Creighton for 25 years before retiring recently. I'll ask them if they like velveeta.
 
whaler11 said:
I don't know anyone who roots for Creighton but if I meet someone I'll pass along the Velveeta thing.
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Exactly. Nobody roots Creighton. The picture you posted was from an Amway Convention in their gymnasium.
 
upstater said:
The BE is dying.
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And everyone is going to leave the ACC. This and all other sorts of nonsense every day on the Boneyard.

It's almost impossibly stupid for you to argue about budgets in one thread and call the Big East dying in another, as if the AAC isn't much worse off.
 
itgoeslike said:
Three "warm-up" acts have played in the past four Final Fours whereas only one ACC team has. . .
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Four Final Fours back...Duke won the National Championship.

You have to go back 24 years to find a real Cinderella national Champ (UNLV).

Since 2003, five teams that are now in the ACC have won a basketball NC....

Creighton might be able to make the Sweet 16 (have they done so and when?). Many mid majors can make the Sweet Sixteen and even the Elite Eight. Even a football school like FSU has made the Sweet Sixteen of recent. But that is where the glass ceiling is.

When I was a senior at FSU, the Noles played in the finals against one of John Wooten's legendary teams...30-0 record and Bill Walton at center. Way, way back in anybody's day...but I still remember the season.
 
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UNLV a cinderella? That team was as good as any national title team. The great thing about the tournament is that Butler, VCU, and George Mason, can make legit runs for a national title. They have no ceiling because they are not affected by one and dones.
 
billybud said:
Four Final Fours back...Duke won the National Championship.

You have to go back 24 years to find a real Cinderella national Champ (UNLV).

Since 2003, five teams that are now in the ACC have won a basketball NC....

Creighton might be able to make the Sweet 16 (have they done so and when?). Many mid majors can make the Sweet Sixteen and even the Elite Eight. Even a football school like FSU has made the Sweet Sixteen of recent. But that is where the glass ceiling is.

When I was a senior at FSU, the Noles played in the finals against one of John Wooten's legendary teams...30-0 record and Bill Walton at center. Way, way back in anybody's day...but I still remember the season.
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1972.
 
noeynox said:
UNLV a cinderella? That team was as good as any national title team. The great thing about the tournament is that Butler, VCU, and George Mason, can make legit runs for a national title. They have no ceiling because they are not affected by one and dones.
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No...under Tark and with his recruiting...UNLV was a powerhouse.

Mid majors have a different meaning in basketball then football....Wichita State is a legit BB major and FSU a mid major...UNLV is not a major but Gonzaga may be.

All of this IMHO...
 
billybud said:
Four Final Fours back...Duke won the National Championship.

You have to go back 24 years to find a real Cinderella national Champ (UNLV).

Since 2003, five teams that are now in the ACC have won a basketball NC....

Creighton might be able to make the Sweet 16 (have they done so and when?). Many mid majors can make the Sweet Sixteen and even the Elite Eight. Even a football school like FSU has made the Sweet Sixteen of recent. But that is where the glass ceiling is.

When I was a senior at FSU, the Noles played in the finals against one of John Wooten's legendary teams...30-0 record and Bill Walton at center. Way, way back in anybody's day...but I still remember the season.
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No, three times in the last four Final Fours the mid-majors have broken through the "glass ceiling" as you've defined it. BTW, in that same time period 5 Big East teams made it with multiple championships. And if you go back one more year then you have 7 Big East teams making the Final Four. I love how some ACC fans quickly co-opt Big East Success. . .
 
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Since the Big East is dead I figured I'd check on the corpse.

Conference rankings:
KenPom: 3rd
Sagarin: 4th
RPI: 4th

To contrast to the ACC with Louisville and without two more dregs coming next year:

KenPom: 7th
Sagarins:8th
RPI: 8th

The AAC is behind the A-10 in two of those metrics and the Big East is ahead of the ACC and Pac 12 in the Pomeroys. But the Big East is dying....
 
The ACC has been in a down period the last several years...

Cuse is doing fine...but Duke and UNC don't seem to be quite the heavyweights that they sometimes are.

FSU beat UMass and VCU but can't play with Virginia, Duke, et al.
 
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upstater said:
What? You're one of those BE will be better than AAC people. Clearly, the AAC has it over the BE, in teams and in interest.

The BE's problem is that two of the marquees, Georgetown and Butler, just suck. I never said Creighton would have no fans or that they would suck. I knew Doug McDermott was good. I did say Creighton has choked and sucked in theNCAA tourney for the last 30 years. That's undeniable. I expect next to nothing from Creighton in the post McDermott years. Going into the season, I said the BE would have 2 great teams in Creighton and Georgetown. They're lucky Villanova came jup because they'd be looking awful right now without them.

Not that anyone would have noticed. They are buried in anonymity on FS1.
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All I know is UConn keeps winning and their RPI goes down, PC wins and it goes up. Which conference sucks?
 
FriarJ said:
All I know is UConn keeps winning and their RPI goes down, PC wins and it goes up. Which conference sucks?
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Good point, but at least people watch our games.
 
I watch our games, every damn one of them and every other BE fan, alum, whatever gets to watch each and every game we want as well, which is a friggin godsend after getting 3 games a year on ESPNU or whatever.

Upstater makes a lot of good posts on these boards but his contempt for the BE shows through in the irrationality of his posts on the topic. His continued claim of the dying BE is far from fact, as a matter of fact it's not backed up by any facts, high RPI, attendance is good and top to bottom the league is strong, also recruiting is going fantastic, with many of the programs recruiting at a high level.

It will NEVER be what it was, but you know it's a damn good conference and anybody with an ounce of sense or the ability to think objectively knows this.
 
FriarJ said:
I watch our games, every damn one of them and every other BE fan, alum, whatever gets to watch each and every game we want as well, which is a friggin godsend after getting 3 games a year on ESPNU or whatever.

Upstater makes a lot of good posts on these boards but his contempt for the BE shows through in the irrationality of his posts on the topic. His continued claim of the dying BE is far from fact, as a matter of fact it's not backed up by any facts, high RPI, attendance is good and top to bottom the league is strong, also recruiting is going fantastic, with many of the programs recruiting at a high level.

It will NEVER be what it was, but you know it's a damn good conference and anybody with an ounce of sense or the ability to think objectively knows this.
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Fair.
 
But the ratings are beyond awful. That cannot be disputed. They have to find a way to get people interested. Other content on fs1, is doing much better by comparison. What do you attribute the lack of viwership to?
 
noeynox said:
But the ratings are beyond awful. That cannot be disputed. They have to find a way to get people interested. Other content on fs1, is doing much better by comparison. What do you attribute the lack of viwership to?
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ESPN is the 800 lb gorilla and fans are conditioned to turning their sets to it. As of right now it's not a channel that the average sport fan turns to. It's also six months old. UConn would be experiencing the same thing. UConn vs. UCF will draw better on ESPN2 then on FS1 currently.

I would also add this, I don't think for one second that Fox or the BE considered this a sprint.
 
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whaler11 said:
Since the Big East is dead I figured I'd check on the corpse.

Conference rankings:
KenPom: 3rd
Sagarin: 4th
RPI: 4th

To contrast to the ACC with Louisville and without two more dregs coming next year:

KenPom: 7th
Sagarins:8th
RPI: 8th

The AAC is behind the A-10 in two of those metrics and the Big East is ahead of the ACC and Pac 12 in the Pomeroys. But the Big East is dying....
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As always the true measure will be the NCAA Tourney - how many teams from each of these conferences get in and how will they do.

And just to be clear, with all these programs shifting conferences I don't really care anymore how these teams do.....as long as Uconn maintains what it has been doing
 
one more thing is that FS1 needs more content than UFC. Right now why would the average sports fan turn to programming that in many cases is arguably not even sports related. If they can add content that a casual fan might want to watch outside of CBB then they might be able to improve the ratings.
 
billybud said:
Creighton and Wichita State in the Missouri Valley has been a nice little rivalry in BB and baseball...
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Exactly. The MVC has had some very good teams over the years, and does again right now.
 
FriarJ said:
ESPN is the 800 lb gorilla and fans are conditioned to turning their sets to it. As of right now it's not a channel that the average sport fan turns to. It's also six months old. UConn would be experiencing the same thing. UConn vs. UCF will draw better on ESPN2 then on FS1 currently.

I would also add this, I don't think for one second that Fox or the BE considered this a sprint.
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Your anchor, Georgetown, has a broken hip. I hope you're not counting on the anchor leg.
 
upstater said:
Your anchor, Georgetown, has a broken hip. I hope you're not counting on the anchor leg.
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It's a blip, their recruiting is excellent and you really don't expect them to stay down do you?
 
FriarJ said:
It's a blip, their recruiting is excellent and you really don't expect them to stay down do you?
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Reading Hoyatalk, there's fear that they are down for the count. Their recruiting is tops for this year's team as well. Cameron is a 4star, Smith-Rivera also a 4, the year before that, three 4s. next year they have three 4's coming in as well. But it's not like recruiting is jumping for them. It's a straight line.
 
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