Baylor Recruiting Violations

[justML]

Did I miss something or did this just come out of nowhere?

Rules are rules. We'll never know if breaking those rules helped encourage Griner to attend Baylor.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Did I miss something or did this just come out of nowhere?

Rules are rules. We'll never know if breaking those rules helped encourage Griner to attend Baylor.

Maybe she had a Wendy's hamburger with Sheila Lambert and Danielle Crockrom.

(Apologies to the Yard, but it was a joke begging to be made).

 

[Sonny44]

A think a one year tournament ban is too often not helpful because it punishes players who were not involved in any way with the period of violations or even the violation itself. When possible the penalties must be applied as directly against those involved. Forfeiting championships is one means of doing that. Punishment going forward of limiting scholarships penalizes the school for not controlling the situation without putting the onus on any incoming students, as well.

Forfeiting championships!
You mean LMM may still get her NC?

 

[stamfordhusky]

I think NCAA rules that regulate/limit coaches' contact with recruits are dumb. First, it requires that too much money, time and energy is spent on compliance employees whose job it is to count and monitor phone calls and text messages. Such a waste. Second, although this is a bigger issue in the men's game than the women's, if coaches are prohibited from contacting recruits during certain months, that vacuum will be filled by others whose influence may be far worse. The job of regulating the amount of contact between coaches and recruits belongs with the recruits and their parents/guardians, not the NCAA.

These rules were specifically requested by the schools and the coaches. Without rules, coaches are under an insane amount of pressure to be on the road or contacting recruits every second of every day. There are also a lot of recruits who like having pre-determined limits.

 

[Icebear]

These rules were specifically requested by the schools and the coaches. Without rules, coaches are under an insane amount of pressure to be on the road or contacting recruits every second of every day. There are also a lot of recruits who like having pre-determined limits.

Right on the rules are important because they make it possible for the coaches and families to have something of a private and the recruits to have periods where there is no contact unless they initiate it with questions, etc. All coaches know that if they have a son or daughter playing AAU ball that they as a college coach must be very careful of the circumstances under which they have contact with potential recruits and family members. The rules are very important to keep balance and equity for everyone.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

There was some discussion on Rebkell as to whether any violations would dissuade a recruit from attending Baylor. If the violations are considered secondary, it is doubtful.

As an example, Tennessee reported a secondary violation regarding "a newspaper photo of women's basketball coach Pat Summitt and assistant coach Dean Lockwood with [then-]recruit Meighan Simmons," (quote from the article) who still signed with Tennessee.

Also, UConn reported a secondary violation involving Maya Moore. "The violation occurred in 2005, when the women's basketball office arranged for Moore to tour the studios of ESPN in Bristol." (quote from the article). The violation was reported in mid-March 2008. Kelly Faris committed to UConn one week later (March 26, 2008).

 

[Icebear]

"A" secondary violation is very different from the numbers I have seen tossed around here in the Baylor situation.

Cam, as to the ESPN fiasco, UConn never made any such "arrangements" at ESPN the specifics of what they did was to place the call for the Moore's essentially dialing the phone and the contact before giving it to them.


"Combined, the men's and women's basketball programs sent 738 impermissible text messages and made 528 impermissible calls over a span of nearly two-and-a-half years. "

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Cam, as to the ESPN fiasco, UConn never made any such "arrangements" at ESPN the specifics of what they did was to place the call for the Moore's essentially dialing the phone and the contact before giving it to them.

Ice, if you read my link, the language I used was quoted from the article. It was not my opinion as to the conduct, but rather the quote from the ESPN link. Sorry for the confusion.

As an aside, I did the same thing with my comment about Tennessee (using the direct quote from the article as the description of the violation). Did not want to be accused of bias.

I went back and edited my post to reflect language from the article (and did so for both the Tennessee link and the UConn link).

 

[doggydaddy]

My head is not in the sand and never has been. But thank you for your concern!

Do you ever speed? Yes! Do you stop for a full 2 seconds at every stop sign. No! Only the people that get caught (sometimes) get fined. Meanwhile, tons of others get away with it everyday. But rules are rules!! Everyone breaks a minor rule, every now and then. It happens, we're human. Do you honestly believe Geno, Pat, Kim, Muffet, etc., etc. have never broken a recruiting rule/NCAA violation. If you don't, then please get your head out of the sand. I could give a **** about these minor violations (on the part of the Baylor women) and that's my right. You don't have to agree. That's your right. But please don't tell me that "rules are rules" when they are created and enforced by the NCAA which is a self-governing body that is comprised of hypocritical administrators. The NCAA is not in the business of looking out for the best interest of the "student-athletes" (on some level - yes, but on a major level - no) - they are mostly concerned about maximizing profits for high-profile FBS schools - if they really cared about SA's then Ohio State's FB should have been wiped off the FB map after this last investigation regarding team violations. And as far as UConn MCBB, they are a tiny blip on the major FBS schools' map and therefore aren't connected enough to get special priviledges or win appeals.

You break the rules, you get punished. You don't like the rules, lobby to get them changed.

UConn has had one violation. It was silly, but a violation. Stop crying about it and move on.

Where do you get that I'm concerned? It's annoying to have you clutter the board with your whining.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Cam, would you know if the Wendy's server was a graduate from Duke?

Maybe she had a Wendy's hamburger with Sheila Lambert and Danielle Crockrom.

(Apologies to the Yard, but it was a joke begging to be made).

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Cam, would you know if the Wendy's server was a graduate from Duke?

Come on, you know it wasn't. Didn't Geno say Duke graduates were at the finer restaurants?

 

[ctfjr]

I have been expecting to see reported violations on Baylor as all of the Athletic Programs have shown remarkable improvements and significant upgrade in the quality of athletes that choose Baylor. Lets face facts, Waco and for that matter Baylor is not the most desirable location for an athlete to choose. There has to be reasons, and it usually involves money or under the table benefits provided to athletes.

And this is based on what 'known facts'?

This type of post makes me think I'm on some other 'southern' board. . .

 

[ctfjr]

typical NCAA nonsense, meanwhile "student/athletes" are getting $100 an hour jobs, and several thousand dollars to sign with some schools

Another baseless quote here - Can you name one athlete? Just one

 

[ucdt3]

You break the rules, you get punished. You don't like the rules, lobby to get them changed.

UConn has had one violation. It was silly, but a violation. Stop crying about it and move on.

Where do you get that I'm concerned? It's annoying to have you clutter the board with your whining.

Me whining...yeah that's rich...you should start a comedy tour with all your hilarious comebacks!!!
Are you UConn WBB's version of Judge Judy? Keep 'em coming Tough Guy.

(Oppps, wait...I hope that didn't count as whining or breaking the rules)

I guess UConn is allowed to have silly violations, but not Baylor...I don't like Baylor as much as the next UConn fan...but these supposed violations involving Griner (and phone calls/texts/talking amonst parents) happened almost 4 years ago...maybe they should take away Baylor's Title and award it to ND...no violations have EVER occurred there (Catholics never break rules--myself included)!!!

 

[doggydaddy]

Me whining...yeah that's rich...you should start a comedy tour with all your hilarious comebacks!!!
Are you UConn WBB's version of Judge Judy? Keep 'em coming Tough Guy.

(Oppps, wait...I hope that didn't count as whining or breaking the rules)

I guess UConn is allowed to have silly violations, but not Baylor...I don't like Baylor as much as the next UConn fan...but these supposed violations involving Griner (and phone calls/texts/talking amonst parents) happened almost 4 years ago...maybe they should take away Baylor's Title and award it to ND...no violations have EVER occurred there (Catholics never break rules--myself included)!!!

Sorry, but UConn had what they call a "minor" violation. Baylor has MAJOR violations.

Yes, you are whining. Maybe you need to look up what that means, if you are capable.

Judge Judy? Tough Guy? Did I hit a nerve? You seem a little upset.

Take your midol and a nap. You will feel better.

 

[justML]

Curious to hear from our Baylor posters . . .

 

[Wbbfan1]

Andy Katz on Violations - Video Link

 

[semper]

OK, moving back to the topic at hand (and it is a very interesting one), I wonder if this will hurt Mulkey in the coaches sweepstakes. Or do people think that this will just blow over. It seems the penalties are not going to cause her or the team serious harm, but what about reputation? Some have said that she was moving into the elite coaches realm; will this have an effect?

 

[justML]

OK, moving back to the topic at hand (and it is a very interesting one), I wonder if this will hurt Mulkey in the coaches sweepstakes. Or do people think that this will just blow over. It seems the penalties are not going to cause her or the team serious harm, but what about reputation? Some have said that she was moving into the elite coaches realm; will this have an effect?

Is there another coach in the women's game who has admitted to this level of violations?

Just a thought - With the quick access that social media provides, I think the contact issue may be something that the NCAA has to revisit.

 

[alexrgct]

1. To be clear, limiting contact by college recruiters is something that was generally agreed to be a good idea. The rules are clear and have been clearly promulgated.

2. I've also been under the impression that the rule is enforced more frequently when the NCAA suspects there are more severe violations but can't prove them. Kind of like how Al Capone was ultimately indicted on charges of tax evasion.

3. I hope and want to believe Kim Mulkey runs a generally clean program. I will not afford Scott Drew the same charity.

4. Yes, the rules should be investigated and enforced more uniformly.

5. I want to be careful here from a "glass houses" perspective because some of the UConn girls' majors are of questionable intellectual/academic/professional merit, but it was disturbing to me how many Baylor starters had abolute jokes of majors. Baylor's website states Brittney Griner is a "General studies major with an emphasis on outdoor recreation." What in the blue hell is that??? This is something I want audited more strictly by the NCAA. If student-athletes are sheparded into majors with little value just as a means of keeping them academically eligible, this defeats the purpose of paying for a kid's education. And yes, if my proposal bit UConn, then so be it. It's an epidemic in college sports, and it has to stop.

6. I do hope that if Baylor's WBB program is found in violation, they are punished severely. The last thing we need is any semblance of WCBB heading anywhere in the remote vicinity of MCBB along those lines.

7. Not saying it's going to happen, but in the event that Baylor were stripped of the title, no title will be awarded for 2012. It's not going to go to ND.

 

[alexrgct]

OK, moving back to the topic at hand (and it is a very interesting one), I wonder if this will hurt Mulkey in the coaches sweepstakes. Or do people think that this will just blow over. It seems the penalties are not going to cause her or the team serious harm, but what about reputation? Some have said that she was moving into the elite coaches realm; will this have an effect?

Not sure what you're asking. Mulkey makes $1.2M/year. She already runs a marquee program. Coaches sweepstakes-wise, she is already a winner. Is the question whether this would impact her as far as being inducted into various HOFs and other such honors? Answer: possibly, though that would be amusing given some of the men's coaches who are in the Naismith HOF.

 

[Icebear]

In the report From Andy one realizes the joke the recruiting penalty is. 700+ and 500+ these are not accidental occurrances. Given the publicity surrounding the violations under Calhoun it would be pretty hard to be ignorant of the rules, too.

Alex, it might make it awkward to consider her for the Olympic coach position in the short run, however.

 

[HelloKitty]

I live in TX and my daughter is a high school basketball player. She is not an elite talent, will not play in college, and does not play for an AAU team. But I know parents of girls that are, will, and do. The following is some information you might want to consider in forming your opinions on potential Baylor violations.

-Baylor's recruiting coordinator, Damion McKinney, was hired by Baylor, from the DFW Elite AAU program in 2006. While hiring AAU coaches is a common practice of men's NCAA programs, it seems unusual for a women's team.
-In 2007, Griner attended elite camp at Baylor. The ESPN Reports states that some of the infractions occurred at this camp. Not long after, Griner commits to Baylor.
-Griner played AAU ball for DFW Elite, becoming the first really big name prospect from the Houston area to do so. Bone, the Ogwumikes, Christmas, Gilbert, and others all played for either Houston Elite, or Cy-Fair.
-Mulkey's daughter, who is a talented player, but not considered by most to be an elite prospect, played for DFW elite. Somehow, she made the roster of their highest level team, T-Jack, which is considered to be one of the best teams in the nation. This is the same team that Moriah Jefferson, Jordan Madden, Brooklyn Pope, and Odyssey Sims played for.
-As a parent, Mulkey attends her daughter's games, practices, etc. and has contact with other team parents, including the Griners. At tournaments, she sits with parents, not in the areas designated for college coaches, where their access to players is monitored and restricted. This subject was discussed in a HoopGurlz article while her daughter was still playing for DFW. Mulkey's approach was contrasted with the mother of Theresa Plaisance, who is at LSU. DoBee Plaisance, a coach at Loyola University in New Orleans, chose to sit with other college coaches, and limited contact with her daughter's teammates and parents, to avoid any appearance of impropriety.

Given the above coincidences, and the large number of phone call and text violations reported, do some of you still believe that Baylor's behavior is as innocent as giving Maya an ESPN tour?

I also find it interesting that since Sims signed with Baylor, only one other DFW Elite player, Kristina Higgins, has signed with them. Alexis Jones (who didn't play for DFW the last two summers) went to Duke. Jefferson to UConn. Jordan Jones and Chelsea Jennings to A&M. Empress Davenport to Texas. I do not know any of these girls or their families, but it makes me wonder if something was preventing them from wanting to go to Baylor.

I would hate for these violations to affect Griner's eligibility or career, since from all reports, she is a good kid. I doubt she or her family knowingly participated in activities that were against NCAA rules. But Baylor, as an institution, needs to be held accountable for the actions of their coaches.

Good luck to UConn and their team next year. I have long been a fan of your program, and after watching the McD's game, believe you are putting together something special, yet again.

 

[speedoo]

Thanks HelloKitty for that interesting information.

 

[justML]

I live in TX and my daughter is a high school basketball player. She is not an elite talent, will not play in college, and does not play for an AAU team. But I know parents of girls that are, will, and do. The following is some information you might want to consider in forming your opinions on potential Baylor violations.

-Baylor's recruiting coordinator, Damion McKinney, was hired by Baylor, from the DFW Elite AAU program in 2006. While hiring AAU coaches is a common practice of men's NCAA programs, it seems unusual for a women's team.
-In 2007, Griner attended elite camp at Baylor. The ESPN Reports states that some of the infractions occurred at this camp. Not long after, Griner commits to Baylor.
-Griner played AAU ball for DFW Elite, becoming the first really big name prospect from the Houston area to do so. Bone, the Ogwumikes, Christmas, Gilbert, and others all played for either Houston Elite, or Cy-Fair.
-Mulkey's daughter, who is a talented player, but not considered by most to be an elite prospect, played for DFW elite. Somehow, she made the roster of their highest level team, T-Jack, which is considered to be one of the best teams in the nation. This is the same team that Moriah Jefferson, Jordan Madden, Brooklyn Pope, and Odyssey Sims played for.
-As a parent, Mulkey attends her daughter's games, practices, etc. and has contact with other team parents, including the Griners. At tournaments, she sits with parents, not in the areas designated for college coaches, where their access to players is monitored and restricted. This subject was discussed in a HoopGurlz article while her daughter was still playing for DFW. Mulkey's approach was contrasted with the mother of Theresa Plaisance, who is at LSU. DoBee Plaisance, a coach at Loyola University in New Orleans, chose to sit with other college coaches, and limited contact with her daughter's teammates and parents, to avoid any appearance of impropriety.

Given the above coincidences, and the large number of phone call and text violations reported, do some of you still believe that Baylor's behavior is as innocent as giving Maya an ESPN tour?

I also find it interesting that since Sims signed with Baylor, only one other DFW Elite player, Kristina Higgins, has signed with them. Alexis Jones (who didn't play for DFW the last two summers) went to Duke. Jefferson to UConn. Jordan Jones and Chelsea Jennings to A&M. Empress Davenport to Texas. I do not know any of these girls or their families, but it makes me wonder if something was preventing them from wanting to go to Baylor.

I would hate for these violations to affect Griner's eligibility or career, since from all reports, she is a good kid. I doubt she or her family knowingly participated in activities that were against NCAA rules. But Baylor, as an institution, needs to be held accountable for the actions of their coaches.

Good luck to UConn and their team next year. I have long been a fan of your program, and after watching the McD's game, believe you are putting together something special, yet again.

Wow - great 1st post!

Thank you for giving us not only good information; but a different perspective.

 

[pinotbear]

And, just one minor addition: if I recall correctly, UConn did not ""give" Maya an ESPN tour - the UConn employee merely dialed the phone number for Mrs. Moore, then passed her the phone. That's it.

 

[stamfordhusky]

I guess UConn is allowed to have silly violations, but not Baylor..

UConn had one secondary violation. Baylor has a reported 1266. There is a difference. Also very different in the eyes of the NCAA.

 

[easttexastrash]

UConn had one secondary violation. Baylor has a reported 1266. There is a difference. Also very different in the eyes of the NCAA.

The only Mulkey violation mentioned so far is that she spoke to Griner's father while both of their daughters were playing on the same AAU program. I am not saying that is all that will be revealed, but for now, that is HER only reported violation. Mulkey's violation will probably stand as a "secondary" violation. However, if the picture is bigger for Mulkey, which I doubt, I would fully endorse whatever sanctions the NCAA regulations warrant.

I have no comment on the Maya situation as that is over and done with. Besides, I did hear that someone from Mulkey's staff made arrangements for BG to attend the Texas Armadillo Museum, so I don't want to throw stones.

I suspect that the self-imposed scholarship reduction and the described ban on off-campus recruiting will be about all that the women's program will be subject to. HOWEVER, the men's program may be in a world of hurt.

 

[easttexastrash]

UConn had one secondary violation. Baylor has a reported 1266. There is a difference. Also very different in the eyes of the NCAA.

It is yet to be determined how many violations the women's program committed. I can't imagine Mulkey being in great violation but you never know. Griner is a once in a lifetime recruit.

 

[easttexastrash]

I live in TX and my daughter is a high school basketball player. She is not an elite talent, will not play in college, and does not play for an AAU team. But I know parents of girls that are, will, and do. The following is some information you might want to consider in forming your opinions on potential Baylor violations.

-Baylor's recruiting coordinator, Damion McKinney, was hired by Baylor, from the DFW Elite AAU program in 2006. While hiring AAU coaches is a common practice of men's NCAA programs, it seems unusual for a women's team.
-In 2007, Griner attended elite camp at Baylor. The ESPN Reports states that some of the infractions occurred at this camp. Not long after, Griner commits to Baylor.
-Griner played AAU ball for DFW Elite, becoming the first really big name prospect from the Houston area to do so. Bone, the Ogwumikes, Christmas, Gilbert, and others all played for either Houston Elite, or Cy-Fair.
-Mulkey's daughter, who is a talented player, but not considered by most to be an elite prospect, played for DFW elite. Somehow, she made the roster of their highest level team, T-Jack, which is considered to be one of the best teams in the nation. This is the same team that Moriah Jefferson, Jordan Madden, Brooklyn Pope, and Odyssey Sims played for.
-As a parent, Mulkey attends her daughter's games, practices, etc. and has contact with other team parents, including the Griners. At tournaments, she sits with parents, not in the areas designated for college coaches, where their access to players is monitored and restricted. This subject was discussed in a HoopGurlz article while her daughter was still playing for DFW. Mulkey's approach was contrasted with the mother of Theresa Plaisance, who is at LSU. DoBee Plaisance, a coach at Loyola University in New Orleans, chose to sit with other college coaches, and limited contact with her daughter's teammates and parents, to avoid any appearance of impropriety.

Given the above coincidences, and the large number of phone call and text violations reported, do some of you still believe that Baylor's behavior is as innocent as giving Maya an ESPN tour?

I also find it interesting that since Sims signed with Baylor, only one other DFW Elite player, Kristina Higgins, has signed with them. Alexis Jones (who didn't play for DFW the last two summers) went to Duke. Jefferson to UConn. Jordan Jones and Chelsea Jennings to A&M. Empress Davenport to Texas. I do not know any of these girls or their families, but it makes me wonder if something was preventing them from wanting to go to Baylor.

I would hate for these violations to affect Griner's eligibility or career, since from all reports, she is a good kid. I doubt she or her family knowingly participated in activities that were against NCAA rules. But Baylor, as an institution, needs to be held accountable for the actions of their coaches.

Good luck to UConn and their team next year. I have long been a fan of your program, and after watching the McD's game, believe you are putting together something special, yet again.

Wow...someone has an ax to GrinDer. Zero proof and a lot of innuendo. I think that wHine was made with sour grapes.