Battle in the Bubble - Rothstein

[gampelcrazies]

 

[Jbirdp5]

I think there are better reasons to do limited bubbles than nba career aspirations. If that's your primary goal and best rationale, you need to take the top 100 prospects and put them in a bubble and pay them for it.

Nba aspirations are only one of many reasons to play, without a bubble these kids have no other options for playing. You are cutting off their chance to impress scouts and improve draft stock. If I’m outside the top 100 I would still want a chance to play and Showcase my talent and compete for a conference and national championship with my team.

 

[Chief00]

Mohegan has a leg up on other potential Bubble locations due to the millions they spent upgrading their ventilation system including adding ultraviolet light.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Nba aspirations are only one of many reasons to play, without a bubble these kids have no other options for playing. You are cutting off their chance to impress scouts and improve draft stock. If I’m outside the top 100 I would still want a chance to play and Showcase my talent and compete for a conference and national championship with my team.

You say nba aspirations are only one of many reasons and next sentence you jump right back into NBA impressing scouts and draft stock, um I think those are NBA aspirations? Why this Silverian slip... because it is mostly about the money and about the top 1% of players. I think the NC2A has to be really careful because the reality of it being about the money and the pro farm system further exposes the hypocrisy and fake amateurism of college sport. It is already taking on water and the more we clamor for the games & competition we love the clearer it becomes that this is 90%+ of these guys importance to a school. Players are starting to make demands, form coalitions and frankly should unionize. To be clear I don't want this, but it'd create way more fairness.

 

[Jbirdp5]

You say nba aspirations are only one of many reasons and next sentence you jump right back into NBA impressing scouts and draft stock, um I think those are NBA aspirations? Why this Silverian slip... because it is mostly about the money and about the top 1% of players. I think the NC2A has to be really careful because the reality of it being about the money and the pro farm system further exposes the hypocrisy and fake amateurism of college sport. It is already taking on water and the more we clamor for the games & competition we love the clearer it becomes that this is 90%+ of these guys importance to a school. Players are starting to make demands, form coalitions and frankly should unionize. To be clear I don't want this, but it'd create way more fairness.

If it’s better for the players why don’t you want it? What’s wrong with players getting their fair share of the lie? Nba dreams and overseas backup plans are what Probably 90% of kids who sign A big time college scholarships have on their mind. Ok the other hand Name a role player that is going to be in the corporate world a year from now that wouldn’t want to spend his last year in the bubble as opposed to missing their last year on campus? What percentage of kids such as a brendan Adams A year from now do you think would not be interested?

 

[freescooter]

If you're lying or really just don't know there's kids on campus there's no reason to discuss this further...Just when I think your posts can't get any worse you trash the best player on our team and trash a former player.

Athletic talent does not equate to sound judgement necessarily. The incidents I cited support my position. Or are you saying they did not happen? Or that they were evidence of mature judgement? In either case you would be wrong ...

 

[Hey Adrien!]

More on Mohegan from The Athletic:

"The Gazelle Group, which operates several events scheduled for Madison Square Garden and the Barclays Center, and the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame, which puts on the Hall of Fame Tip-Off and Hall of Fame Invitational, are proposing another bubble model with an intriguing twist.

They are going to invite several teams to come to Mohegan Sun, the casino resort in Uncasville, Conn., during a two-week window in December. Not only would those teams have the chance to play games already scheduled, but they also would be given the opportunity to cross-pollinate with the other events and pick up additional opponents.

Rick Giles, the president of the Gazelle Group, says he is talking to additional schools that have expressed interest in joining up. If the season begins 15 days later than normal, schools around the country will be looking to make up games. Schools also are also anticipating cancellations of nonconference games that are usually held on campus, creating a demand for matchups made on the fly."

Teams from every MSG, Barclays and NBHF event:

Big East: UConn, Villanova, Marquette, St. John's
Big Ten: Michigan, Purdue, Penn State, Minnesota
Big 12: Baylor, Texas Tech, West Virginia
ACC: Syracuse, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, NC State
SEC: Florida, LSU, Vanderbilt
PAC-12: Stanford, Arizona, USC
Others: Rhode Island, Cincy, UCF, Siena, lots more

 

[Dogdeacon]

If it’s better for the players why don’t you want it? What’s wrong with players getting their fair share of the lie? Nba dreams and overseas backup plans are what Probably 90% of kids who sign A big time college scholarships have on their mind. Ok the other hand Name a role player that is going to be in the corporate world a year from now that wouldn’t want to spend his last year in the bubble as opposed to missing their last year on campus? What percentage of kids such as a brendan Adams A year from now do you think would not be interested?

Simple, I'd rather players be given their fair share before they have to unionize.

Your question is rhetorical, nonsensical and a little ridiculous. "Wouldn't want to spend his last year in the bubble as opposed to missing their last year on campus"?! Are they in the bubble or on campus? Both?! How could I possibly name a player that I know will be in the corporate world next year and know their preference regarding bubble or not AND if they are on campus or learning remotely?
Nevertheless, I present every role player in the Ivy league. Name one of them that has come out in favor of the bubble.
Lastly, the percentage of kids such as Brendan Adams a year from now that I think would not be interested is 0%. Brendan Adams a year from now is interested.

 

[Jbirdp5]

Simple, I'd rather players be given their fair share before they have to unionize.

Your question is rhetorical, nonsensical and a little ridiculous. "Wouldn't want to spend his last year in the bubble as opposed to missing their last year on campus"?! Are they in the bubble or on campus? Both?! How could I possibly name a player that I know will be in the corporate world next year and know their preference regarding bubble or not AND if they are on campus or learning remotely?
Nevertheless, I present every role player in the Ivy league. Name one of them that has come out in favor of the bubble.
Lastly, the percentage of kids such as Brendan Adams a year from now that I think would not be interested is 0%. Brendan Adams a year from now is interested.

I am giving you my opinion you can simply give yours back without getting all technical with the way I framed my opinion. I think you understood the message just fine.
Let me make it simple. In my opinion players would be willing to go into the bubble if it meant playing vs not, and that’s if they had pro aspirations or not.
Have a bunch of Ivy League kids trashed the idea of the bubble? Is that your big gotcha moment? Please feel free to let me know because I hadn’t seen it.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I am giving you my opinion you can simply give yours back without getting all technical with the way I framed my opinion. I think you understood the message just fine.
Let me make it simple. In my opinion players would be willing to go into the bubble if it meant playing vs not, and that’s if they had pro aspirations or not.
Have a bunch of Ivy League kids trashed the idea of the bubble? Is that your big gotcha moment? Please feel free to let me know because I hadn’t seen it.

Ok definitely my bad, I was way too snarky. Sorry. Your second sentence/paragraph rings true and I agree with your opinion that more players would go into the bubble regardless of NBA or pro basketball operations. It is just more clear there and stating it as your opinion is better than asking me to name players or guess what % are in favor.

And that's kind of the state of the whole world right now, most of us are fine, would & could go out more yet we aren't doing it in hopes of a greater good and protecting the vulnerable. And most of us aren't living in total isolation or nba style restricted bubbles and likely wouldn't do so if it was optional for our work. So I've got a problem asking others to do it, unpaid, for my entertainment.

 

[Chief00]

Playing is better than not playing. If you have doubts, ask our football players off the record. You will get an ear full.

 

[bmayuc]

Playing is better than not playing. If you have doubts, ask our football players off the record. You will get an ear full.

I say this with respect for the players and the work that they put in, but honestly I could not care less and neither should all of you.

This is societal-wide, systemic public health crisis, and public policy decisions in such a crisis must err on the side of containment, safety, and risk reduction. What an 18-22 year old college football player thinks off the record is truly not relevant.

 

[zls44]

What an 18-22 year old college football player thinks off the record is truly not relevant.

"The customer is always right"-ism is a scourge.

 

[selles]

What an 18-22 year old college football player thinks off the record is truly not relevant.

It's more relevant than what you think.

 

[Dogdeacon]

It's more relevant than what you think.

0 x 0 is the same as 0 + 0. The real question: is national health + individual welfare > $

 

[superjohn]

I say this with respect for the players and the work that they put in, but honestly I could not care less and neither should all of you.

This is societal-wide, systemic public health crisis, and public policy decisions in such a crisis must err on the side of containment, safety, and risk reduction. What an 18-22 year old college football player thinks off the record is truly not relevant.

I don't want to attack your way of thinking but come on. We're a good six months into it, we know what the beast is. The virus sucks, it kills old people and people with comorbidities, it's very much what we thought it was early on, it's killed 300 people 24 and under nationwide. Ask young people if they want to play the sports they love. Ask D1 athletes if they want to play the sports they love. I think we haven't been caring about young people and asking them enough questions nearly enough this entire time. Adults have been letting us down left and right, let's hear from the young people.

 

[jimva]

I'd watch and selfishly I'm in favor of it happening.
But frankly it shouldn't happen with amateur sports. It is one thing for players who are paid, it is quite another and just layers onto the hypocrisy of college sports to play the big time sports for TV in a bubble. I'm actively rooting against college football working (partially out of UConn spite).
If I were a AD or conference head, I'd say no to the big time TV sports and those bubbles. Ok if they want to do fencing, tennis and whatever else is safe and truly is about the athletes and the sport.

For the 50+ or so men's CBB players whose immediate NBA futures are at stake, they should be allowed to make individual decisions to opt in or out of school. I don't see the logic in running a giant bubble organization or a bunch of mini-conference bubbles on the excuse of showcasing such a small amount of possible draft picks, when it is really just about keeping the revenue coming in at the expense & risk of athletes where the risk-reward is out of balance.

while I appreciate your right to an opinion like this. I honestly don’t understand how someone gets to this view - not facts.

As a father of a high school junior daughter who is being required to play soccer at the collegiate level, and a son who plays collegiate hockey, I can assure you that amateur athletes have been severely impacted by COVID. And to tell them to put it off a year is ridiculous. They don’t have a year to lose. It will impact the rest of their lives.

they all want to play. They are in great shape, healthy and working hard to not lose ground.

I don’t know a serious armature athlete who doesn’t want to get back to playing. It is people like you and others on this board thinking you know what’s best for them, and you don’t know better. You are letting fear control your decisions. Ask them what they want. If they don’t want to play they can opt out.

#LetTheKidsPlay

 

[Dogdeacon]

while I appreciate your right to an opinion like this. I honestly don’t understand how someone gets to this view - not facts.

As a father of a high school junior daughter who is being required to play soccer at the collegiate level, and a son who plays collegiate hockey, I can assure you that amateur athletes have been severely impacted by COVID. And to tell them to put it off a year is ridiculous. They don’t have a year to lose. It will impact the rest of their lives.

they all want to play. They are in great shape, healthy and working hard to not lose ground.

I don’t know a serious armature athlete who doesn’t want to get back to playing. It is people like you and others on this board thinking you know what’s best for them, and you don’t know better. You are letting fear control your decisions. Ask them what they want. If they don’t want to play they can opt out.

#LetTheKidsPlay

“People like you“!? Your opinion matters more why exactly? Why can’t I go back to my office, why aren’t bars or restaurants open, why aren’t my kids able to do 90% of the activities they usually do? Your situation is not unique. I’m sorriest for the very young families/kids and the college aged kids but it sucks for all of us and we are all sacrificing, by both mandate and choice. I do care about all of us that are missing out on things, yet I’d like my kids to be able to see my 82yr old Mom and give her a hug. She is scared and wants to be careful. I find that more important than anyone’s freakin soccer season.

 

[UCSouth]

while I appreciate your right to an opinion like this. I honestly don’t understand how someone gets to this view - not facts.

As a father of a high school junior daughter who is being required to play soccer at the collegiate level, and a son who plays collegiate hockey, I can assure you that amateur athletes have been severely impacted by COVID. And to tell them to put it off a year is ridiculous. They don’t have a year to lose. It will impact the rest of their lives.

they all want to play. They are in great shape, healthy and working hard to not lose ground.

I don’t know a serious armature athlete who doesn’t want to get back to playing. It is people like you and others on this board thinking you know what’s best for them, and you don’t know better. You are letting fear control your decisions. Ask them what they want. If they don’t want to play they can opt out.

#LetTheKidsPlay

Couple questions after reading your post. No attack here, just curiosity. First, who is requiring that your daughter play Collegiate Soccer? Secondly, how will losing a year of sports impact them for the rest of their lives? I just figured that the College Degree could potentially outweigh the loss of a season of sports. Like I said, no attack here, just curiosity.

 

[jimva]

Couple questions after reading your post. No attack here, just curiosity. First, who is requiring that your daughter play Collegiate Soccer? Secondly, how will losing a year of sports impact them for the rest of their lives? I just figured that the College Degree could potentially outweigh the loss of a season of sports. Like I said, no attack here, just curiosity.

She is being recruited by Lower- mid d1 and high-academic D3. The loses come from the back to back pile up of recruiting classes that is causing a squeeze on opportunity. She has played with girls that started college last year (D1 scholarships) and there are a lot of stories of people losing scholarships from last year. I could give some specifics but not my position to out any universities.

For the top tier they may not be impacted much, but everyone else is. For anyone that has gone through the process, where your child is good enough to play at the next level, but not going to play at a top school, and especially if they don’t play one of the money sports you know what I am talking about. That athletic opportunity can, and often does tip the scales on acceptance at very competitive academic institutions and or money to help pay for school.

ill provide another example of the craziness. My daughters two club teams have been playing for over a month now (15 games so far), yet her high school is still debating to have a season this fall. But all these girls are already playing each other. All the parents are at the games, albeit abiding by strict guidelines. And while not committing to playing a season, her school is going ahead with a big fund raiser towards the end of September. stupid! And this is more common than one would think.

I appreciate everyone’s concerns, but this is not rocket science. Everyone should be wearing a mask and practicing acceptable social distancing. Outside of this, There are situation specific risks and each of us has the responsibility to understand them and make choices for oruselves and our family. But no one gets to impose their choices, specific to their situation on people in different circumstances.

 

[jimva]

“People like you“!? Your opinion matters more why exactly? Why can’t I go back to my office, why aren’t bars or restaurants open, why aren’t my kids able to do 90% of the activities they usually do? Your situation is not unique. I’m sorriest for the very young families/kids and the college aged kids but it sucks for all of us and we are all sacrificing, by both mandate and choice. I do care about all of us that are missing out on things, yet I’d like my kids to be able to see my 82yr old Mom and give her a hug. She is scared and wants to be careful. I find that more important than anyone’s freakin soccer season.

I am not invaliding your your opinion, just disagree with it strongly. And I am sorry about your 82 yr old mom and know it is tough. My mom is 85 and has health issues. We haven’t seen her since christmas, which is hard.

but the situation you and I share with elderly parents is our situation. We, and others in our situation should act responsibly. But again, that doesn’t mean we impose restrictions on the broader public that don’t have the same situation.

On your point about bars and restaurants, there is a big difference between getting our kids Safely back to a normal life and an adult being able to go out for dinner or go out drinking with friends. But I would have thought this would be obvious to everyone.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I am not invaliding your your opinion, just disagree with it strongly. And I am sorry about your 82 yr old mom and know it is tough. My mom is 85 and has health issues. We haven’t seen her since christmas, which is hard.

but the situation you and I share with elderly parents is our situation. We, and others in our situation should act responsibly. But again, that doesn’t mean we impose restrictions on the broader public that don’t have the same situation.

On your point about bars and restaurants, there is a big difference between getting our kids Safely back to a normal life and an adult being able to go out for dinner or go out drinking with friends. But I would have thought this would be obvious to everyone.

It is obvious, bars & restaurants are relatively easy sacrifices unless it is your livelihood. Spare me the sarcasm. Your original post & opinion Still seems overly determined by and focused on your personal or family situation. No one in this country seems to be willing to deal with the hard individual sacrifices so we are stuck with a group consequence. It could make sense to open lots of stuff if there were widespread responsible behavior and this SHOULD be possible. But we are not there as a country and we’ve all got to deal with big and small losses that are the result.

Personally I’m wearing masks, quarantining or testing (ie went to RI and tested my family immediately upon return) when required to do so and limiting interactions. In other words my part in what could get things back open. I’m not campaigning for closures but I am going to speak up against people advocating for opening $ when we are not ready and doing so is more likely than not (not definitive, nobody knows) to lengthen and worsen the situation.

 

[bmayuc]

"The customer is always right"-ism is a scourge.

Yea my point went way over all your head. I'm not saying I don't care. I'm saying that insofar as our country can still not even get first-order problems - IE, contain a virus that has killed 200k people anywhere near under control - we should not be pretending things are back to normal. And we sure as hell should not be polling a bunch of 18-year-olds that lift weights 10 months a year so they can play 10 games a year whether or not they want to play. We all know the answer. We all also must know its a silly and unnecessary risk - to their lives and to others.

 

[jimva]

It is obvious, bars & restaurants are relatively easy sacrifices unless it is your livelihood. Spare me the sarcasm. Your original post & opinion Still seems overly determined by and focused on your personal or family situation. No one in this country seems to be willing to deal with the hard individual sacrifices so we are stuck with a group consequence. It could make sense to open lots of stuff if there were widespread responsible behavior and this SHOULD be possible. But we are not there as a country and we’ve all got to deal with big and small losses that are the result.

Personally I’m wearing masks, quarantining or testing (ie went to RI and tested my family immediately upon return) when required to do so and limiting interactions. In other words my part in what could get things back open. I’m not campaigning for closures but I am going to speak up against people advocating for opening $ when we are not ready and doing so is more likely than not (not definitive, nobody knows) to lengthen and worsen the situation.

My view is the exact opposite. You are letting your personal family situation determine what you want others to do. I commend you for you diligence, although testing your family after a trip form CT to RI and back seems a little excessive, unless you al knowingly engaged in risky behavior. But good for you.


again, if you feel the safest thing for you is to lock you and your family in the basement until this passes, you should do that. And there is no sarcasm or insincerity here. We all deal with risk and fear differently and you should do what works for you and your family.

but your risk/fear matrix and the decisions you are advocating are inconsistent with what the experts are advocating. So do what you need to do, but don’t try to visit that on the rest of us who are acting in accordance with guidelines and want to do differently from what your position is.

 

[bmayuc]

My view is the exact opposite. You are letting your personal family situation determine what you want others to do. I commend you for you diligence, although testing your family after a trip form CT to RI and back seems a little excessive, unless you al knowingly engaged in risky behavior. But good for you.


again, if you feel the safest thing for you is to lock you and your family in the basement until this passes, you should do that. And there is no sarcasm or insincerity here. We all deal with risk and fear differently and you should do what works for you and your family.

but your risk/fear matrix and the decisions you are advocating are inconsistent with what the experts are advocating. So do what you need to do, but don’t try to visit that on the rest of us who are acting in accordance with guidelines and want to do differently from what your position is.

You keep saying that our "fear/risk Matrix" or we are "letting fear get in the way".

Its not fear. Its a duty to others. A duty that too few in this country share, and why we are trapped in hell.

 

[jimva]

You keep saying that our "fear/risk Matrix" or we are "letting fear get in the way".

Its not fear. Its a duty to others. A duty that too few in this country share, and why we are trapped in hell.

not so. You are advocating above and beyond. Again, if that works for you and you family then you should do it. But to go above and beyond you are, by definition, letting fear guide your decisions.

my only suggestion to you, and this is sincere. Do some research, get some facts, and then come back with an educated position. You don’t have one now.

 

[Dogdeacon]

My view is the exact opposite. You are letting your personal family situation determine what you want others to do. I commend you for you diligence, although testing your family after a trip form CT to RI and back seems a little excessive, unless you al knowingly engaged in risky behavior. But good for you.


again, if you feel the safest thing for you is to lock you and your family in the basement until this passes, you should do that. And there is no sarcasm or insincerity here. We all deal with risk and fear differently and you should do what works for you and your family.

but your risk/fear matrix and the decisions you are advocating are inconsistent with what the experts are advocating. So do what you need to do, but don’t try to visit that on the rest of us who are acting in accordance with guidelines and want to do differently from what your position is.

What the frock do you know about my risk or fear matrix? Nothing as it turns out.

In August when I went to a pre-booked week in Narragansett RI, MA law required either 2 weeks quarantine or a negative test, so in fact the opposite of what you say I was following the experts and adhering to guidelines. The testing was the right thing to do, a couple hours for us, some costs, but 1/10 pain and same day results (pre-researched a good place).

You were half right in that my15yr Old is in the basement on most nights, but it is unlocked and he’s usually with a few friends from town (less than 45 cases in my town since March).

So in these instances bad assumptions on your part in every respect. Unfortunately our country has way more than our share of covid cases and deaths because too many are un-willing to make personal sacrifices when they hurt.

 

[bmayuc]

not so. You are advocating above and beyond. Again, if that works for you and you family then you should do it. But to go above and beyond you are, by definition, letting fear guide your decisions.

my only suggestion to you, and this is sincere. Do some research, get some facts, and then come back with an educated position. You don’t have one now.

I'm getting my MPA right now so I've literally spent the past 4 months comparing US Municipality/State/Fed response to COVID vs other countries to determine why we are the worst in the entire world, but thumbs up bro you obviously the smartest and most knowledgeable dude on the planet.

FWIW one of my key takeaways is that in most other countries there is a much higher cultural cohesion and willingness to "go above and beyond" what the authorities are requiring as bare minimum, and that is one of the key factors to their excellent responses. See especially the APAC countries like japan and South Korea for extreme cultural collective sacrifice.

It is the minimalism - doing only what is absolutely required by state/fed authorities that is allowing the slow burn of the pandemic in the US - which you are the purest self-interested and self-righteous example of.

Actually I'd love to quote this exchange as a case study in my thesis due in November if you'll will allow me permission?

 

[Dogdeacon]

not so. You are advocating above and beyond. Again, if that works for you and you family then you should do it. But to go above and beyond you are, by definition, letting fear guide your decisions.

my only suggestion to you, and this is sincere. Do some research, get some facts, and then come back with an educated position. You don’t have one now.

You’ve already proven yourself a poor researcher so spare me your epidemiology knowledge lest you post a degree for us. To live in this country right now and howl at the moon for people being overly cautious is short-sighted at best. If you really want to open things up for yourself the correct play is fear monger (even if you believe the opposite after obtaining your infectious disease expertise via reading articles that tell you what you want to hear) and get everyone to stay home.

 

[Adios]

It's amusing how empowered some seem to feel when they take a mask off right after they exit a store.