B1G

[nelsonmuntz]

The only state in the Northeast that dwarfs the south is New York (assuming Florida is a non-starter for B10 expansion). Adding NY to New England's population nets you about 34m. Georgia, Virginia, and NC's total population is about 28m. If Delany looks northwards for expansion, it wouldn't be because of the larger markets, simply a difference in strategy and/or inability to crack the ACC code further south than Maryland.

There are 8 major conference programs in Georgia, Virginia and North Carolina. There are BC, UConn and Syracuse in New York/New England. Furthermore, Connecticut and New York both have PCI's that dwarf any state in the south. Does BMW want to advertise in Connecticut or North Carolina?

 

[JeepCSC]

The Big 10's model doesn't seem to need dominance in a marketplace, simply access. Georgia Tech gets them on Atlanta television sets even if the Bulldogs have the hearts and minds of Georgia. And this being college sports, is BMW where the advertising money is coming from? We aren't exactly talking the same demo as Mad Men or something.

Regardless, my point stands, market size won't determine where the Big 10 expands. Mostly because the 3 southern states are almost on par with the untouched corners of the northeast (probably larger if we consider NY as already semi-breeched territory). If Delany turns to the northeast it will be to woo Notre Dame with BC or to simply cement NYC with UConn. Not because northeastern markets are so much larger.

 

[CL82]

So, folks, let's get this straight. In the last decade, only Boston U. and Georgia Tech have been added to the AAUs rank of 60 schools. They don't add schools easily. UConn's total research is well below AAU standards currently. Herbst wants to raise research. That's great. So does everyone else. The idea that she's going to raise it 100% (Boston U. levels) in 2 years is as likely as UConn winning the SEC championship game in 2 years.

Maybe, but I think the fact that UConn is so underperforming for university of our size, that progress will be fairly easy now that we've got a president who is focused upon it. In the end though, I'd suggest that it really doesn't matter whether this research push we gets an us AAU invite. Connecticut's premier (public) university ought to be more productive in terms of research. I see Herbst efforts as entirely laudatory and appropriate, regardless of whether it helps us in conference affiliation. I'm a fan of our sports teams but I see the university continued academic improvement as job 1. That may not be the most popular opinion on this board, but academics is our core mission. Coincidently, universities that committed to excellence can, and often do, do well in both.

 

[upstater]

Maybe, but I think the fact that UConn is so underperforming for university of our size, that progress will be fairly easy now that we've got a president who is focused upon it. In the end though, I'd suggest that it really doesn't matter whether this research push we gets an us AAU invite. Connecticut's premier (public) university ought to be more productive in terms of research. I see Herbst efforts as entirely laudatory and appropriate, regardless of whether it helps us in conference affiliation. I'm a fan of our sports teams but I see the university continued academic improvement as job 1. That may not be the most popular opinion on this board, but academics is our core mission. Coincidently, universities that committed to excellence can, and often do, do well in both.

UConn is among the best state schools of this size. I'm not sure you can call it underperforming. It's mostly a matter of state resources and investment. The state simply hasn't put that much money behind UConn. Only half the AAU schools are public, but many of them come from California (which used to subsidize higher education pretty well).

 

[CL82]

Thanks Upstater. I get the sense that research really hasn't been a a focal point at the university. That makes me believe that there are low hanging fruit opportunities. It sounds like you believe that market for research is well penetrated that there isn't much for Connecticut to go after. I'm not so sure that it is the case, but I defer to your knowledge in the area. It seems to me that there are always emerging areas. Rather than compete with established universities UConn could position itself to be a leader in an emerging area(s). Since it isn't bogged down with existing facilities and researchers, it ought to be more able to extablish itself in new areas. Does that make sense? I think the State would be wise to promote this as it is a job creation engine and the defense industry is likely to be in decline.

 

[upstater]

Thanks Upstater. I get the sense that research really hasn't been a a focal point at the university. That makes me believe that there are low hanging fruit opportunities. It sounds like you believe that market for research is well penetrated that there isn't much for Connecticut to go after. I'm not so sure that it is the case, but I defer to your knowledge in the area. It seems to me that there are always emerging areas. Rather than compete with established universities UConn could position itself to be a leader in an emerging area(s). Since it isn't bogged down with existing facilities and researchers, it ought to be more able to extablish itself in new areas. Does that make sense? I think the State would be wise to promote this as it is a job creation engine and the defense industry is likely to be in decline.

There are definitely emerging areas. Or else Boston U. wouldn't have been added. All I'm saying is that the competition is fierce. Everyone is touting Herbst plans, yet 3 other state schools I know have the exact same blueprint. The state legislature in NY has passed bills on these matters sourcing funding for such expansion. I've been in meetings as recently as a month ago discussing the feasibility of a 40% across the board increase in research in the next 5 years.

The part that gets me is that all these schools talk a big game while their states are cutting funding to them, and the Federal gov't cuts research. As Bob Dylan said, "you don't have to be a weatherman..."

 

[auggie22]

Upstater - we get that all state universities have a goal of increasing their research activity, winning more federally funded grants, etc. I am sure UCONN is not alone in this regard. What sets the UCONN plans apart - and lends greater weight to them IMHO - is that they are backed by approved spend of $1B in taxpayer money to improve research facilities (UHC and Storrs tech park) between now and 2017, as well as a funded plan to hire 500 new professors (~350 tenure track), with a design to lure established research teams from America's top universities. When Herbst says that it is "doable" she does so knowing that she has a stacked deck.

 

[CTMike]

Tweet from our fav MH insider ver3...

"And just like that there's a nugget!
Secret Meeting tonight up north?
4 special unofficial guests?"

I think we are in, guys!!!

 

[Marty Jackson]

The only state in the Northeast that dwarfs the south is New York (assuming Florida is a non-starter for B10 expansion). Adding NY to New England's population nets you about 34m. Georgia, Virginia, and NC's total population is about 28m. If Delany looks northwards for expansion, it wouldn't be because of the larger markets, simply a difference in strategy and/or inability to crack the ACC code further south than Maryland.

I think there is a big issue for a southern school to consider joining a mostly northern league. Culture and weather differences could have an impact on recruiting. many southern kids don't want to be playing football in December in Minnesota or Ohio.
I also don't think UNC or UVA are all that interested in becoming little fish in a big pond, if they can help it. they may not have a choice if everything unravels, but I'm guessing they are not proactively looking to leave the ACC. I also think that UNC would go to the SEC before the Big10. UVA is on the border culturally and geographically.

Partly why I'd be shocked if GT went to the big10. good luck selling georgia recruits on playing games in the cold up north.

 

[CTGoonie]

Tweet from our fav MH insider ver3...

"And just like that there's a nugget!
Secret Meeting tonight up north?
4 special unofficial guests?"

I think we are in, guys!!!

I like how this is a "secret meeting". So when nothing happens he can just say it was a "secret meeting" which is why nobody knows about it.

 

[specialisthusky]

I like how this is a "secret meeting". So when nothing happens he can just say it was a "secret meeting" which is why nobody knows about it.

That is the beauty of mh3 u just never ever know

 

[CL82]

That is the beauty of mh3 u just never ever know

Oh I think we all know. We just keep reading him anyway.

 

[noeynox]

Connect the dots here boys... Warde Manuel will not be at the Big East AD's meeting..... Secret Big 10 meeting up north..... see where this is going......

 

[specialisthusky]

Connect the dots here boys... Warde Manuel will not be at the Big East AD's meeting..... Secret Big 10 meeting up north..... see where this is going......

Too bad that didn't say the secret meetings were in the far east instead of up north. Maybe the china trip is a front...do they even have donuts in china?

 

[CTGoonie]

Connect the dots here boys... Warde Manuel will not be at the Big East AD's meeting..... Secret Big 10 meeting up north..... see where this is going......

Yup. And those 4 teams are VA, Cuse, Uconn and BCU. Lock up the northeast.

 

[CL82]

Connect the dots here boys... Warde Manuel will not be at the Big East AD's meeting..... Secret Big 10 meeting up north..... see where this is going......

Conspiracy Kitty says:
Oh believe me, I am connecting them.

 

[specialisthusky]

Yup. And those 4 teams are VA, Cuse, Uconn and BCU. Lock up the northeast.

I posted my dream b1g conference a while back. It was this then add nd and unc for 20 once you can. 4 pods of 5.
B1g east division Ne pod uconn/cuse/bc/psu/osu se pod rutty/nd/uva/unc/umd
B1g west division great lakes pod mich/msu/indiana/purdue/illinois nw pod wisc/neb/nw/iowa/minny

Pipedream but man it would be sick

 

[upstater]

I think there is a big issue for a southern school to consider joining a mostly northern league. Culture and weather differences could have an impact on recruiting. many southern kids don't want to be playing football in December in Minnesota or Ohio.
I also don't think UNC or UVA are all that interested in becoming little fish in a big pond, if they can help it. they may not have a choice if everything unravels, but I'm guessing they are not proactively looking to leave the ACC. I also think that UNC would go to the SEC before the Big10. UVA is on the border culturally and geographically.

Partly why I'd be shocked if GT went to the big10. good luck selling georgia recruits on playing games in the cold up north.

Since we're talking about weather and cultural migrations to the south here, I guess scientific variables should be mentioned. The south region around Atlanta, E. Tenn., Alabama and Miss. is projected to become a drought region in the next 20-dd years. You will see a big counter migration soon. Lobbyists for these states are looking to sue the midwestern states over the Great Lakes compact because they see those freshwater lakes as federal property.

 

[UConn5]

While MHver3's tweets may serve to provide fantastical hope for many of us, we would be so lucky if we were invited to be at any secret meeting.

 

[noeynox]

While 's tweets may serve to provide fantastical hope for many of us, we would be so lucky if we were invited to be at any secret meeting.

Just have fun with it man. Nobody believes this shi-t

 

[Dann]

While 's tweets may serve to provide fantastical hope for many of us, we would be so lucky if we were invited to be at any secret meeting.

i will be at this meeting 2night so go yourself.

 

[WestHartHusk]

Since we're talking about weather and cultural migrations to the south here, I guess scientific variables should be mentioned. The south region around Atlanta, E. Tenn., Alabama and Miss. is projected to become a drought region in the next 20-dd years. You will see a big counter migration soon. Lobbyists for these states are looking to sue the midwestern states over the Great Lakes compact because they see those freshwater lakes as federal property.

This doesn't get talked about often but the growth in population of the SE/SW combined with 1) increasing temperatures; 2)erratic rainfall (and by erratic I mean months with no rain then a monsoon that does no real good for the water table); and 3)loss of winter snow pack (an especially large problem in the West) will leave those regions in perpetual water shortage.

This problem leaves you with three real solutions: 1)those regions somehow become extremely efficient in their water use (not sure there is the political will for that); 2)they steal water from Mexico and the Great Lakes region (as Upstater pointed out); or 3)people move to wear fresh water is abundant, which will be back to more northern lattitudes in the US / Canada.

I don't rule out #2 just because of the general arrogance I sense in their elected representation, but I think #3 is more likely. At a minimum growth will not continue at the rate it has been going.

 

[RMoore1999]

I posted my dream b1g conference a while back. It was this then add nd and unc for 20 once you can. 4 pods of 5.
B1g east division Ne pod uconn/cuse/bc/psu/osu se pod rutty/nd/uva/unc/umd
B1g west division great lakes pod mich/msu/indiana/purdue/illinois nw pod wisc/neb/nw/iowa/minny

Pipedream but man it would be sick

I dont believe in pipe-dreams.

Substitute Kansas and Mizzu for the dying northeast privates, and you're onto something. Nd, psu, Connecticut, rutty, md, unc and UVA more than lock up the EAST.

As NYCity's team, Connecticut will sponsor a little holiday tourney at MSG for old times sake and to give something back to the less privileged by hosting the likes of Cuse, GT, Vill, Ville, Pitt, SJ and duke.

Bcu gets relegated to "holy cross" status....

 

[businesslawyer]

All the more reason I'd like the football schools to keep the BE name and the MSG rights. Screw the Catholics. So what if Uconn and Cincy had one foot out the door. The Catholics could have bolted after any invite and no one would have a claim against them. They didn't have to do it before the move. If they remained they could have maneuverd a better media contract then they'll get alone and legitimately inherited the name and venue without conflict if UConn and Cinci left. They bolted so they should lose the rights.

The reason I want UConn and the two other football schools to keep the BE name is the above scenario may play out. I want UConn to keep the BE name and MSG playing rights just in the event that the ACC implodes and Cuse and whoever is left in the cold. Then reabsorb them back into the BE conference and play games at MSG. And then renegotiate the media contract.

Could we stop with the MSG rights. The Big East's deal with MSG is that the Big East writes MSG a big check, takes all seating rights for the week (even for luxury boxes that cover "all" Garden events) and then covers the costs by selling tickets. The NNNNN Big East members would bankrupt themselves writing the Garden this check because they will not be able to sell the tickets at the prices that the old conference did.

These posts all act as if there isn't a huge sunk cost to stay in the Garden.

 

[ctchamps]

Could we stop with the MSG rights. The Big East's deal with MSG is that the Big East writes MSG a big check, takes all seating rights for the week (even for luxury boxes that cover "all" Garden events) and then covers the costs by selling tickets. The NNNNN Big East members would bankrupt themselves writing the Garden this check because they will not be able to sell the tickets at the prices that the old conference did.

These posts all act as if there isn't a huge sunk cost to stay in the Garden.

The value is the hype and exposure with the media, nothing more nothing less. There are still four decent teams in the NNNNN Big East and they are in an uphill battle for relevancy. Every little bit helps and for UConn it is a big bump because UConn recruits well in NY. Of course if there is no fight for the BE name or MSG I would consider something is up for UConn and Cincy.

 

[businesslawyer]

The value is the hype and exposure with the media, nothing more nothing less. There are still four decent teams in the NNNNN Big East and they are in an uphill battle for relevancy. Every little bit helps and for UConn it is a big bump because UConn recruits well in NY. Of course if there is no fight for the BE name or MSG I would consider something is up for UConn and Cincy.

It would be great to keep playing in the Garden. If we can afford it. But just because you want to "keep relevancy," does not mean there is a financial plan to cover the costs when the Conference can no longer sell as many tickets at as high a price.

If dreams were horses then beggars could ride.

 

[ctchamps]

It would be great to keep playing in the Garden. If we can afford it. But just because you want to "keep relevancy," does not mean there is a financial plan to cover the costs when the Conference can no longer sell as many tickets at as high a price.

If dreams were horses then beggars could ride.

The argument depends on whether Aresco can get legs on a media contract. And his problem is UConn and Cincy not being firm. Hypothetically if these two schools were committed to the new version of the BE a decent contract could be forthcoming and the bb side of the conference could become decent. The MSG would be a reasonable loss leader to give the conference exposure. If the conference doesn't develop scrap the contract with MSG.

 

[businesslawyer]

The argument depends on whether Aresco can get legs on a media contract. And his problem is UConn and Cincy not being firm. Hypothetically if these two schools were committed to the new version of the BE a decent contract could be forthcoming and the bb side of the conference could become decent. The MSG would be a reasonable loss leader to give the conference exposure. If the conference doesn't develop scrap the contract with MSG.

Wouldn't you have to some some hint of an idea what the net loss would be to call it a "reasonable loss leader?" Or typing the words is enough?

 

[ctchamps]

Wouldn't you have to some some hint of an idea what the net loss would be to call it a "reasonable loss leader?" Or typing the words is enough?

If your supposition is correct, then the C7 would have the same difficulty as the NNNNBE in supporting the payment of MSG. So they aren't going to insist on accessing that venue and all of this is a moot point. But if the C7 argue its value and want to pay the NNNNNBE for the rights to the venue, what would be their rationale?

 

[John Greene]

Since we're talking about weather and cultural migrations to the south here, I guess scientific variables should be mentioned. The south region around Atlanta, E. Tenn., Alabama and Miss. is projected to become a drought region in the next 20-dd years. You will see a big counter migration soon. Lobbyists for these states are looking to sue the midwestern states over the Great Lakes compact because they see those freshwater lakes as federal property.

When I first started to work in Hartford way back in 1969 (I'm sure that is before many of you were born) fresh water was talked about as the factor that would limit migration to the south and west. FL was seen as having the biggest problem with all kinds of doomsday scenarios about needing to desalinate ocean water, and the cost that would put on growth. Agriculture in the area you mentioned is not irigation intensive since over the last 75 years cotton has been replaced with tree farms. As far as water for industrial, commercial and residential use is concerned, the area is dotted with large lakes that are used for hydropower and recreation. Few, with Lanier in GA being the main exception, are currently used to provide water for any other purpose. I would not hold my breath for a reverse migration based on lack of water.