B1G

[NEforceUConn]

+1

Nice job Funster

 

[The Funster]

And to B1GALUM: if the B1G takes UConn...along with Rutgers...the B1G will own NYC for the next century. Take that and pair it with MDs presence in the DC market and you the only conference that is a bi-regional power.

 

[upstater]

Let's dispel some myths.

a) I never once said every CR decision was correct.

b) You're right. I shouldn't have said, "...but each of those schools offered (or at least were perceived to offer) more than UConn does." That was poor wording on my part. I *should* have said that some of those schools offered more than UConn does and that all were perceived by Presidents, Commissioners, and TV execs as offering more than UConn does. The former is subjective, whereas the latter is just logic. Either way, I should've been more careful with my word choice. The point I was making is that some (certainly not all) posters here suggest that UConn is in its current predicament because conferences did favors for all these other crap schools that no one in their right mind would pick over UConn. That's really what I was responding to.

c) I never said Swafford was infallible. In fact, I never once mentioned John Swofford. I happen to think Swofford is a second-rate commish who makes basketball-centric decisions and as such, he's relegated the ACC to a second class status among the Big 5.

d) Re: academics -- It's all relative. But to be very clear, I never once said or suggested that Connecticut was anything close to a bad school academically.

b. Isn't right either. We've had discussions on this board time and again. TV execs? Show me. All presidents? Read Funster's post. We've been going on about this since 2002 when Bob Ryan reported internal stuff about the BE and UConn. We've been reading Blaudschun since he reported that BC blackballed UConn and DeFillippo admitted it. We've had a Trustee from a now ACC school come onto our board and reveal private conversations relating to BC. We've heard UNC and Duke's top people ridicule BC for their position against UConn. This has been going on for ages. Your posts tend to totally ignore this history.

Not to mention the TV market question. Go over to the USA database for Tier 3 rights and licensing/sponsorin (including ad revs for coach's shows) and compare UConn to everyone else in the BE. UConn's rights are at $25m (a full $10m ahead of everyone else's). Then realize that on SNY (a sports channel that charges $2+ per month in Connecticut, New Jersey and New York) bumped Syracuse BE basketball games in favor of UConn women's bball because UConn women get higher ratings, never mind the men. Realize all of that and then come back and tell us what the TV execs advised.

I can't agree with anything in your post. What does D mean?

 

[Duncan Idaho]

b. Isn't right either. We've had discussions on this board time and again. TV execs? Show me. All presidents? Read Funster's post. We've been going on about this since 2002 when Bob Ryan reported internal stuff about the BE and UConn. We've been reading Blaudschun since he reported that BC blackballed UConn and DeFillippo admitted it. We've had a Trustee from a now ACC school come onto our board and reveal private conversations relating to BC. We've heard UNC and Duke's top people ridicule BC for their position against UConn. This has been going on for ages. Your posts tend to totally ignore this history.

Not to mention the TV market question. Go over to the USA database for Tier 3 rights and licensing/sponsorin (including ad revs for coach's shows) and compare UConn to everyone else in the BE. UConn's rights are at $25m (a full $10m ahead of everyone else's). Then realize that on SNY (a sports channel that charges $2+ per month in Connecticut, New Jersey and New York) bumped Syracuse BE basketball games in favor of UConn women's bball because UConn women get higher ratings, never mind the men. Realize all of that and then come back and tell us what the TV execs advised.

I can't agree with anything in your post. What does D mean?

That second paragraph should go to that BTN website that B1GAlum mentioned

 

[itgoeslike]

I'd never known UConn fans never had a reputation for being arrogant before CR, but comments like these made since the most recent round are making me start to put some Huskies fans up there with the Duke, Yankee, and Notre Dame fans. Some of these scenarios are just absurd. "If the SEC invited UConn, then the ACC and Big Ten would be pissed." Tuh! If either the ACC or the Big Ten wanted Connecticut, then Connecticut wouldn't be in a conference called The American.

I'm sure this will ruffle feathers, but please know I'm being as polite (non-trolly) as possible. UConn is a decent (not great, not awful) school academically with two really tremendous basketball programs. But UConn has only won one non-basketball national title in the last 27 years.

I get it. There's a limited number of seats at the table and currently your alma mater doesn't have one. I'd be frustrated as well.

It may be a shocker, but each of those schools offered (or at least were perceived to offer) more than UConn does. Doesn't mean that other schools deserve to be trashed. Just means that for whatever reason, the decision-makers don't believe UConn brings enough to the table. If they thought otherwise, you guys would have a seat. I'm not here to down your brand or your school, but some of your guys are talking like UConn is Texas, Florida, UCLA, and Cal combined.

What readers might find offensive is that you are pretty far off base regarding the accuracy of your comments and don't have a real tight grasp on the dynamics of Conference Realignment.

"But UConn has only won one non-basketball national title in the last 27 years."

You conveniently drew a line to shave off two national championships (which is kind of trolly). Since 1980 UCONN has won 15 National championships in three different sports. In the same time period Michigan has won 11 national championships (1 in football, 1 in basketball). While not Texas, UCONN is competing at an elite level in a number of sports and is laying the groundwork for future success in others. Generally, I think the posters on this site are trying to make a case for being a collectively (academics, athletics, research, prestige) a top 40 institution, and worthy of competing at the highest level.


"UConn is a decent (not great, not awful) school academically"

While not Harvard or Yale, UCONN is better than "not awful" when it comes to academics. There are only 4-5 schools in the Big Ten that have decidedly better academics. The balance of the schools are comparable or slightly worse. They have a similar positioning in the ACC. The school's latest metrics will propel it further up the rankings in the comings months. CR won't change that.


"It may be a shocker, but each of those schools offered (or at least were perceived to offer) more than UConn does."

The ACC offered Pitt and Louisville for strategic reasons, and it had little to do with selecting a superior institution (both schools are good universities). It became clear that the Big 12 was positioned to become the fourth super conference. The ACC had no choice but to take Big 12 expansion options off the table. WVU and Pitt would have been the perfect traveling partners and base for an Eastern expansion. Football success did play a role, but it was secondary to the strategic implications. The B1G, SEC and PAC, in part due to the structure of their media deals, don't have to worry about football credibility.

Over the years, UCONN has earned the right to be proud of its athletices and academics, and they did it the hard way (without leveraging past glory). Most fans want the best for their school. While occasional comments might be somewhat implausible, it's unfair to characterize the fan base as arrogant.

 

[CTMike]

Nice first post.

 

[itgoeslike]

Nice first post.

bingethinker provided the inspiration. . .

 

[FfldCntyFan]

bingethinker provided the inspiration. . .

For the record, unless you view men's and women's hoops as one sport, our national titles cover four sports (only counting those under the NCAA umbrella, we have more if club sports are included). We happen to be able to claim multiple national titles in men's soccer (three), women's field hockey (two), men's basketball (three) and women's basketball (eight). Schools that can claim multiple titles in two sports are rare.

 

[itgoeslike]

For the record, unless you view men's and women's hoops as one sport, our national titles cover four sports (only counting those under the NCAA umbrella, we have more if club sports are included). We happen to be able to claim multiple national titles in men's soccer (three), women's field hockey (two), men's basketball (three) and women's basketball (eight). Schools that can claim multiple titles in two sports are rare.

I originally wrote "four sports" but assumed someone would point out that basketball, as a sport, was counted twice. The next time I'll employ the word "multiple". . .

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

We happen to be able to claim multiple national titles in men's soccer (three), women's field hockey (two), men's basketball (three) and women's basketball (eight). Schools that can claim multiple titles in two sports are rare.

Much less in team sports that lots of schools compete in. We haven't racked up our titles in obscure individual sports like gymnastics, archery, skiing, etc.

 

[Mr Blueskin]

Alright folks. Time to press your case for UConn to the B1G on the BTN website. I led it off for you in the reply section. Tom Dienhart, BTN senior writer, made a number of statements indicative of the B1G's desire to grow into the NYC area. A few passages from his article for your reading pleasure. I would think the last one in which he asks about the basketball presence of the B1G in New York is begging for a UConn perspective.
http://btn.com/2013/06/03/dienhart-pinstripe-bowl-deal-helps-grow-big-ten-brand/#comment-191766

The agreement with the Pinstripe Bowl pushes the Big Ten deeper into the massive New York metropolitan area, the world’s biggest media market. And that’s a big deal in the Big Ten’s quest to grow its brand, revenue and reach across an ever-competitive conference landscape. This toehold in the mega New York area sets the Big Ten apart from every other major conference. And, in the end, that eventually could help the league from a competitive standpoint—particularly in recruiting.

The league took its first step toward penetrating the New York market by adding near-by Rutgers, which will join in 2014. (Maryland also will join that year). The Big Ten also announced earlier that it will open an office in New York to further enhance its presence in Gotham.

Big Ten schools could take turns playing early-season games–maybe even conference games; maybe even a double-header–in Yankee Stadium, as the league takes a metaphorical spot along Madison Avenue and Broadway to become “the” conference of “the greatest city in America.”

Now, what type of basketball presence will the Big Ten have in New York? Just wondering.

This penetration into NYC seems to be getting more and more B1Gers to say "why not UConn to B1G". It makes too much "cents" and people are starting to connect the dots. Check out the comments section...all pro-UConn compared to a year ago when no one was even considering UConn.

 

[Durks07]

Alright folks. Time to press your case for UConn to the B1G on the BTN website. I led it off for you in the reply section. Tom Dienhart, BTN senior writer, made a number of statements indicative of the B1G's desire to grow into the NYC area. A few passages from his article for your reading pleasure. I would think the last one in which he asks about the basketball presence of the B1G in New York is begging for a UConn perspective.

http://btn.com/2013/06/03/dienhart-pinstripe-bowl-deal-helps-grow-big-ten-brand/#comment-191766

The agreement with the Pinstripe Bowl pushes the Big Ten deeper into the massive New York metropolitan area, the world’s biggest media market. And that’s a big deal in the Big Ten’s quest to grow its brand, revenue and reach across an ever-competitive conference landscape. This toehold in the mega New York area sets the Big Ten apart from every other major conference. And, in the end, that eventually could help the league from a competitive standpoint—particularly in recruiting.

The league took its first step toward penetrating the New York market by adding near-by Rutgers, which will join in 2014. (Maryland also will join that year). The Big Ten also announced earlier that it will open an office in New York to further enhance its presence in Gotham.

Big Ten schools could take turns playing early-season games–maybe even conference games; maybe even a double-header–in Yankee Stadium, as the league takes a metaphorical spot along Madison Avenue and Broadway to become “the” conference of “the greatest city in America.”

Now, what type of basketball presence will the Big Ten have in New York? Just wondering.

I did my part. I urge all Boneyarders to say something. Here is an opportunity (the first that I can think of) to voice an opinion on this matter to ears that may listen. I do not want to hear that it is irrelevant. Even if it is, the two minutes it will take you to say something is better than nothing.

 

[UConn Dan]

I did my part. I urge all Boneyarders to say something. Here is an opportunity (the first that I can think of) to voice an opinion on this matter to ears that may listen. I do not want to hear that it is irrelevant. Even if it is, the two minutes it will take you to say something is better than nothing.

http://btn.com/2013/06/03/dienhart-pinstripe-bowl-deal-helps-grow-big-ten-brand/#comment-191766

I did my part as well. But there are still a lot of UConn to B1G haters out there. I tried not to come across as a UConn fan.

Everyone - go post something!

 

[upstater]

http://btn.com/2013/06/03/dienhart-pinstripe-bowl-deal-helps-grow-big-ten-brand/#comment-191766

I did my part as well. But there are still a lot of UConn to B1G haters out there. I tried not to come across as a UConn fan.

Everyone - go post something!

Those are Rutgers fans.

 

[Hoophound]

Those are Rutgers fans.

And Syracuse fans. I personally know several couples that have a serious interest in Michigan (alums and Michigan natives). I never hear anything but positivity about UConn in the B10 when I mention it. This weekend I spoke to a Wisconsin alum and I said UConn wants to be in the B10 and he was said, "I hope they get invited, that would be awesome". His wife then said, UConn is a great school isnt it? I hear about it all the time lately." She is a marketing exec and and went to Illinois for undergrad before getting her master's at Wisconsin.

I don't think B10 fans mind the idea at all. It helps bball, gives them more exposure in the east and doesn't threaten them football wise. Passionate opposition to UConn in the B1G makes no sense. At least the passionate opposition to UConn in the ACC is rooted in hatred. Fans BC and Cuse fear us and that's understandable.

 

[upstater]

And Syracuse fans. I personally know several couples that have a serious interest in Michigan (alums and Michigan natives). I never hear anything but positivity about UConn in the B10 when I mention it. This weekend I spoke to a Wisconsin alum and I said UConn wants to be in the B10 and he was said, "I hope they get invited, that would be awesome". His wife then said, UConn is a great school isnt it? I hear about it all the time lately." She is a marketing exec and and went to Illinois for undergrad before getting her master's at Wisconsin.

I don't think B10 fans mind the idea at all. It helps bball, gives them more exposure in the east and doesn't threaten them football wise. Passionate opposition to UConn in the B1G makes no sense. At least the passionate opposition to UConn in the ACC is rooted in hatred. Fans BC and Cuse fear us and that's understandable.

I'd say B1G fans mind it as much as they mind Maryland and Rutgers' addition, which means they do mind it somewhat, but they are going down a road that the ACC already went down, which is adding schools from outside the traditional area. And this upsets people. We're in an era now of 100% consensus in adding schools (if you look at the ACC's votes) but back in 1992, Michigan and Ohio State actually voted against PSU's inclusion.

 

[frankthetank]

I'd say B1G fans mind it as much as they mind Maryland and Rutgers' addition, which means they do mind it somewhat, but they are going down a road that the ACC already went down, which is adding schools from outside the traditional area. And this upsets people. We're in an era now of 100% consensus in adding schools (if you look at the ACC's votes) but back in 1992, Michigan and Ohio State actually voted against PSU's inclusion.

My observations with Big Ten fans is that Maryland and Rutgers were ultimately acceptable because (a) they also added a school that actually draws football viewers (Nebraska) and (b) there's a greater understanding of how the BTN makes money with cable households compared to when the Big Ten first announced that it was exploring expansion 3 years ago. To be clear, though, (a) is extremely important. For a move to be popular with fans, there HAS to be a school added that such fans will want to sit down and watch their teams play football against. There's already a bit of consternation about how the Big Ten West schools are going to be playing Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State less often, so to the extent anyone else is added, they had better make it worth seeing those 3 schools even less. A pure market grab without a marquee (or at least upper tier) football brand will not pass muster with the fans for future expansions. This also isn't irrelevant to the financially-minded powers that be, either, as a powerful football brand is still the proverbial golden goose that makes the market-based riches from the BTN possible. Believe me - they're not oblivious to this. (Now, I know that the retort to that is that Rutgers and Maryland are historically terrible at football, but as I've pointed out here, New Jersey and Maryland are the two best football recruiting states in the North that aren't already in the Big Ten footprint, so there IS a very direct football-driven reason for those additions.)

The AAU issue is what ultimately matters the most for the Big Ten, though. I'm not saying that is the correct way for the Big Ten to expand (as I've personally argued for them to grab Florida State), but that is certainly how the powers that be in the Big Ten are approaching expansion. Close or "having a plan" isn't good enough - if you're in the AAU, then you have a chance, but if you're not in the AAU, then you don't have a chance. It's as simple as that (unless you're Notre Dame, in which case all expansion qualification rules go out the window if they're dropping football independence).

 

[upstater]

My observations with Big Ten fans is that Maryland and Rutgers were ultimately acceptable because (a) they also added a school that actually draws football viewers (Nebraska) and (b) there's a greater understanding of how the BTN makes money with cable households compared to when the Big Ten first announced that it was exploring expansion 3 years ago. To be clear, though, (a) is extremely important. For a move to be popular with fans, there HAS to be a school added that such fans will want to sit down and watch their teams play football against. There's already a bit of consternation about how the Big Ten West schools are going to be playing Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State less often, so to the extent anyone else is added, they had better make it worth seeing those 3 schools even less. A pure market grab without a marquee (or at least upper tier) football brand will not pass muster with the fans for future expansions. This also isn't irrelevant to the financially-minded powers that be, either, as a powerful football brand is still the proverbial golden goose that makes the market-based riches from the BTN possible. Believe me - they're not oblivious to this. (Now, I know that the retort to that is that Rutgers and Maryland are historically terrible at football, but as I've pointed out here, New Jersey and Maryland are the two best football recruiting states in the North that aren't already in the Big Ten footprint, so there IS a very direct football-driven reason for those additions.)

The AAU issue is what ultimately matters the most for the Big Ten, though. I'm not saying that is the correct way for the Big Ten to expand (as I've personally argued for them to grab Florida State), but that is certainly how the powers that be in the Big Ten are approaching expansion. Close or "having a plan" isn't good enough - if you're in the AAU, then you have a chance, but if you're not in the AAU, then you don't have a chance. It's as simple as that (unless you're Notre Dame, in which case all expansion qualification rules go out the window if they're dropping football independence).

Things change. The BTN is about to lose a lot of bball cred to the ACC. As much as people disparage bball revs, they are still probably 20% of the total. The BTN has an achilles heel there. As for NJ and Maryland football, I'd argue that most of those players already go to the B1G anyway. Look at Nebraska, PSU and the NJ pipeline. Maryland and PSU. I'm not sure how much is going to really change now. Seems like a market grab to me.

Agreed about the AAU, which was also my original point.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Purely hypothetical situation below, but then again what isn't on the CR board?

Five years from now:
UConn football is back on the rise and consistently fighting for the at large 'BCS' bid.
Kevin Ollie keeps UConn elite in hoops.
UConn receives an invitation to the AAU ( the biggest goal).

While this happens, Oklahoma decides to look at the B1G as they realize they may need to find a home if Texas were to bolt. At this point the Big12 GOR is half over and everything is negotiable.

B1G gets another north east presence, AAU member, blue chip hoops program and rising football program.

To go along with taking a new comer in football, they get a top 5 ( right?) national brand in football that should keep the western teams happy. OU isn't AAU, but I think they have enough national cache like Nebraska to get in (as upstater has noted Nebraska was on their way out when they were invited).

Does this make sense at all - assuming what I've wrote were to happen?

 

[upstater]

Purely hypothetical situation below, but then again what isn't on the CR board?

Five years from now:
UConn football is back on the rise and consistently fighting for the at large 'BCS' bid.
Kevin Ollie keeps UConn elite in hoops.
UConn receives an invitation to the AAU ( the biggest goal).

While this happens, Oklahoma decides to look at the B1G as they realize they may need to find a home if Texas were to bolt. At this point the Big12 GOR is half over and everything is negotiable.

B1G gets another north east presence, AAU member, blue chip hoops program and rising football program.

To go along with taking a new comer in football, they get a top 5 ( right?) national brand in football that should keep the western teams happy. OU isn't AAU, but I think they have enough national cache like Nebraska to get in (as upstater has noted Nebraska was on their way out when they were invited).

Does this make sense at all - assuming what I've wrote were to happen?

I think the future is really going to be about new hurdles for determining which schools can remain in D1. The football schools want to break away. If they stay inside the NCAAs umbrella (which allows them to preserve the NCAA bball tourney) then you'll see all sorts of benchmarks in place to weed out as many non-Big 5 schools as possible. When only a few remain, only then might you see additions to the conferences. Once schools can't meet the criteria, only then can the other schools not be sued.

Unless, of course, the Big 5 decide to break from the NCAA and create their own thing. That will be a much cleaner break, with less threat of lawsuit from NCAA members. Of course, they'll lose the NCAA tourney, but they may gain all the proceeds from the new bball tourney instead of turning those over to the NCAA. They will have to pay to run those minor sports themselves however (I'm sure the SEC, which sponsors few such sports, will not want to contribute to that kitty too much).

 

[UPitt]

Purely hypothetical situation below, but then again what isn't on the CR board?

Five years from now:
UConn football is back on the rise and consistently fighting for the at large 'BCS' bid.
Kevin Ollie keeps UConn elite in hoops.
UConn receives an invitation to the AAU ( the biggest goal).

While this happens, Oklahoma decides to look at the B1G as they realize they may need to find a home if Texas were to bolt. At this point the Big12 GOR is half over and everything is negotiable.

B1G gets another north east presence, AAU member, blue chip hoops program and rising football program.

To go along with taking a new comer in football, they get a top 5 ( right?) national brand in football that should keep the western teams happy. OU isn't AAU, but I think they have enough national cache like Nebraska to get in (as upstater has noted Nebraska was on their way out when they were invited).

Does this make sense at all - assuming what I've wrote were to happen?

It does not have to be such a dreamt up story for Uconn to get an invite. It's probably much simplier than that. Uconn needs AAU membership and any partner. A partner with football brand and AAU membership is an easier sell, but Uconn with AAU membership and another AAU member would probably get it done as well or ND/OK/TEXAS. Remember that Delany has said he wants eastern expansion (ie Uconn or ACC teams) and has said expansion is not over for the B1G.

 

[upstater]

northwesten will dop big boy status along wih wake.

mizzu, uconn, kan, ok and texas to the B1G

cincy, temple, usf, ucfand memphis to the acc

texas tech, okst, kst, ist and wvu to the sec

pac adds bsu, byu, sdsu, unv, unr and haw(zaga)

Northwestern doesn't want $40 million a year subsidy from the B1G. It would rather lose $10 million (like the Ivies do now) by dropping to 1AA or II.

That right?

 

[Dann]

Northwestern doesn't want $40 million a year subsidy from the B1G. It would rather lose $10 million (like the Ivies do now) by dropping to 1AA or II.

That right?

they will drop football. so will wake. they wil join the big east together. they will stay in the cic.

 

[B1GALUM]

northwesten will dop big boy status along wih wake.

mizzu, uconn, kan, ok and texas to the B1G

cincy, temple, usf, ucfand memphis to the acc

texas tech, okst, kst, ist and wvu to the sec

pac adds bsu, byu, sdsu, unv, unr and haw(zaga)

Two thoughts regarding KU, OU and Texas to the B1G
One ... the B1G seems to be about eastern expansion at this point, as mentioned above, although would clearly accept Texas if they came calling.
Two ... would a split be feasible, per state legislators, for KSU/KU, OSU/OU and Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor/Texas ?

 

[GopherHawk]

Two thoughts regarding KU, OU and Texas to the B1G
One ... the B1G seems to be about eastern expansion at this point, as mentioned above, although would clearly accept Texas if they came calling.
Two ... would a split be feasible, per state legislators, for KSU/KU, OSU/OU and Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor/Texas ?

If TA&M continues to rise, I don't think Texas will be tied to Tech, Baylor and TCU. They would be cut free to float to the top.

KSU and KU might be different.
OU only gets away from OSU when cutting off an arm is necessary to save a life. Without OU, OSU would be sent to a league with Tulsa. Oops Sorry.