Article on Candace Parker and not playing for USA again

[Rocket009]

Let's also not forget that Pat Summit benched Candace her Junior year because she violated team rules, and Parker then gave up her last year of eligibility and left TN. It took many years for the Summit/Parker relationship to recover from that. I think you could draw some parallels between that event and the USA basketball issue.

At the time, I was really surprised when they announced that she was dropped from the USA basketball roster for the Olympics, but when you look at the players competing for that spot, there is not a drop off in talent - so if there were other behavioral factors at play, then it would have made it fairly easy decision.

 

[wallman]

I wish she would let it go. IMO, The more she talks about it, the more it buys into what is being said. Just focus on the season without distractions.

 

[bballnut90]

Let's also not forget that Pat Summit benched Candace her Junior year because she violated team rules, and Parker then gave up her last year of eligibility and left TN. It took many years for the Summit/Parker relationship to recover from that. I think you could draw some parallels between that event and the USA basketball issue.

Yeah....this is a very inaccurate picture you painted. Yes, she stayed out past curfew the night before a game so she was benched for half of it. It was well known that Candace was leaving with her graduating class to turn pro, where she became the first overall pick, an Olympian, and was the WNBA MVP as a rookie. Her relationship with Pat was always fantastic. No parallels there.

 

[bballnut90]

This is absolute hogwash. Yes, EDD is injury prone. I've also watched her play through a back injury that was so bad she had to lay down when she wasn't in the game. I've watched her try to play with Lyme symptoms when it was obvious she should be nowhere near a basketball court. She plays with as much passion as anyone does. I had Sky season tickets when she was there. I watched her go out there with a mediocre supporting cast and basically be expected to be the whole offense every night. And more often that not she came through. You can't do that if you are going through the motions.

I'm sorry she doesn't constantly argue with referees like Parker. Maybe if she did, then you would think she has "passion".

Just 2 months ago EDD publicly stated she didn't have passion to play when she was with the Sky:


Article link: Elena Delle Donne says in new book she 'wasn’t fully committed' to the Sky

Quote: "2. Delle Donne herself draws comparisons between the Connecticut situation and her decision to leave the Sky. When the Sky hired Amber Stocks, the new coach called for a championship culture. “They’re looking for players who are truly passionate about this team, I realized. Yet there’s a little voice in my head saying that that’s not me. ... “I knew I wasn’t fully committed. It reminded me of my one day at UConn, when the Huskies captain had told us to play with passion, and I realized I’d had none of it.”

 

[CocoHusky]

I'm confused. There was no crime, and no cover up. The explanation offered was for Parker's benefit, not USA BB's. USA BB has never fully explained its decision and never will. After the decision was announced, you had a couple of people suggesting that the full story would likely never be told. Doug Feinberg of the AP said "sometimes you can't write what goes on because it's off the record conversation and won't see the light of day." I don't think Geno was hung out to dry really. He's a big boy and he also doesn't care. Honestly, other than on a few message boards, relatively very few people care that a privileged athlete was left off an Olympic team. There are more important things in life.

I was speaking allegorically not literally as it relates to crime and I agree that there are much more serious things in life. USA basketball lack of full explanation (notice I'm using your words) made the decision, controversial as it were even more controversial is what I was trying to say. Absent a full explanation by USA basketball people that were not part of the decision like Geno and now Dawn (if you read a few post back) were tainted is what I meant by hung out to dry.

 

[CocoHusky]

Let's also not forget that Pat Summit benched Candace her Junior year because she violated team rules, and Parker then gave up her last year of eligibility and left TN. It took many years for the Summit/Parker relationship to recover from that. I think you could draw some parallels between that event and the USA basketball issue.
At the time, I was really surprised when they announced that she was dropped from the USA basketball roster for the Olympics, but when you look at the players competing for that spot, there is not a drop off in talent - so if there were other behavioral factors at play, then it would have made it fairly easy decision.

It kind of hard to argue EDD's commitment to the game when there is an article (which I believe you posted) with EDD questioning her commitment to the Sky in the same year she was playing on the Olympic team.
Elena Delle Donne says in new book she 'wasn’t fully committed' to the Sky

 

[Orangutan]

Just 2 months ago EDD publicly stated she didn't have passion to play when she was with the Sky:


Article link: Elena Delle Donne says in new book she 'wasn’t fully committed' to the Sky

Quote: "2. Delle Donne herself draws comparisons between the Connecticut situation and her decision to leave the Sky. When the Sky hired Amber Stocks, the new coach called for a championship culture. “They’re looking for players who are truly passionate about this team, I realized. Yet there’s a little voice in my head saying that that’s not me. ... “I knew I wasn’t fully committed. It reminded me of my one day at UConn, when the Huskies captain had told us to play with passion, and I realized I’d had none of it.”

I know she wasn't passionate about the Sky but that's different from not playing with passion. Obviously, I can't speak to how she felt about her time in Chicago. But I know what I saw and what I saw was Elena playing incredibly hard.

If getting a Sky team that had been a lottery team before her arrival to the WNBA finals and following that up with an MVP season was how she plays when she is not passionate, I don't really care if she has passion or not, you know? I saw her out there carrying the offense and then getting back to block shots on defense. I saw her get fired up after making big plays. I don't know about how she felt deep down but does it really matter?

 

[UConnCat]

I was speaking allegorically not literally as it relates to crime and I agree that there are much more serious things in life. USA basketball lack of full explanation (notice I'm using your words) made the decision, controversial as it were even more controversial is what I was trying to say. Absent a full explanation by USA basketball people that were not part of the decision like Geno and now Dawn (if you read a few post back) were tainted is what I meant by hung out to dry.

Understood and I agree with you. By not revealing what transpired behind the scenes and the reasons why the committee members voted as they did surely made it mostly about Geno. To a certain fanbase he's always been the villain and this added to that narrative. USA BB and Geno surely knew that would be the case but weren't concerned about it. All in all, I think USA BB believes it was a positive for the team and program.

 

[CocoHusky]

I know she wasn't passionate about the Sky but that's different from not playing with passion. Obviously, I can't speak to how she felt about her time in Chicago. But I know what I saw and what I saw was Elena playing incredibly hard.
If getting a Sky team that had been a lottery team before her arrival to the WNBA finals and following that up with an MVP season was how she plays when she is not passionate, I don't really care if she has passion or not, you know? I saw her out there carrying the offense and then getting back to block shots on defense. I saw her get fired up after making big plays. I don't know about how she felt deep down but does it really matter?

Well what you saw was distinctly different from what EDD felt and I tend to trust her feeling in this case.
“They’re looking for players who are truly passionate about this team, I realized. Yet there’s a little voice in my head saying that that’s not me. ...UConn, when the Huskies captain had told us to play with passion, and I realized I’d had none of it.”

 

[CocoHusky]

I just finished reading the article and found it to be the exact Candace article I expected, she's perfect and everyone is against her!
“She’s been doing this so good for so long, people kind of underestimate her,” says Seimone Augustus of the rival Minnesota Lynx. “They don’t look at what she’s doing as amazing. We may not see another player like this at her position for another 10 or 20 years.”
We already see another player like this at her position, in fact we have 2 players that are better in all facets of the game than Candace and that's Breanna Stewart as #1 and Elena Della Donne as 1a! And they do all that without being a diva! EDD has her diva moments but 98% of the time she's all in for her team.
Candace has never met a TV camera she didn't know where it was located and liked! Watch her dunk or block a shot or do something on court and she'll find the TV camera and mug it up for the viewers. "watch me I'm the greatest!" You'll never see Stewie mug it up for the TV cameras!
She'll chose when and where she'll give 100% effort, taking sections of or whole games off physically and mentally! If Candace had Nneka O's style and heart she'd be going 100% effort all the time as Nneka does game in and game out!
A couple years ago, Candace head-butted Nneka after Nneka scored a basket opening a 6" gash over Nneka's left eye! Just Candace being Candace I guess!

As far as I'm concerned the more camera time for Candace the better. She is and has been a verified Diva. Notice we have NOT talked basketball skill set yet, which should be primary in picking an Olympic team.

 

[Orangutan]

Well what you saw was distinctly different from what EDD felt and I tend to trust her feeling in this case.
“They’re looking for players who are truly passionate about this team, I realized. Yet there’s a little voice in my head saying that that’s not me. ...UConn, when the Huskies captain had told us to play with passion, and I realized I’d had none of it.”

Big fan of how instead of engaging with what I wrote, you just quoted the same lines that bballnut90 did.

She said she wasn't passionate about the Sky. That's different from bballnut90's statement that she "never played with much passion". The second part of that quote is her realizing she had no passion when she was at UConn.

And anyway someone needs to tell me how it matters whether she has passion or not. If you think she has no passion, well, she won an MVP playing with no passion so what does it matter. And if you want to talk about "fully committed," we've already discussed how Parker has not always made herself available to USAB. To my knowledge, EDD has.

 

[CocoHusky]

Big fan of how instead of engaging with what I wrote, you just quoted the same lines that bballnut90 did.

She said she wasn't passionate about the Sky. That's different from bballnut90's statement that she "never played with much passion". The second part of that quote is her realizing she had no passion when she was at UConn.

And anyway someone needs to tell me how it matters whether she has passion or not. If you think she has no passion, well, she won an MVP playing with no passion so what does it matter. And if you want to talk about "fully committed," we've already discussed how Parker has not always made herself available to USAB. To my knowledge, EDD has.

Uhm.. EDD reference her time at UCONN and not having any passion then either.

 

[Orangutan]

Uhm.. EDD reference her time at UCONN and not having any passion then either.

Ok, your not even reading my posts before hitting the reply button now because I mention that in my post. Like, read just one sentence more before following your natural instinct to be contradictory.

 

[bballnut90]

I know she wasn't passionate about the Sky but that's different from not playing with passion. Obviously, I can't speak to how she felt about her time in Chicago. But I know what I saw and what I saw was Elena playing incredibly hard.

If getting a Sky team that had been a lottery team before her arrival to the WNBA finals and following that up with an MVP season was how she plays when she is not passionate, I don't really care if she has passion or not, you know? I saw her out there carrying the offense and then getting back to block shots on defense. I saw her get fired up after making big plays. I don't know about how she felt deep down but does it really matter?

She's a great player, no question about that. But when you're building a team, I'd rather bring someone on who has a lot of passion for the game and has shown commitment and dedication rather than a player with a history of getting burnt out and who hasn't always prioritized basketball. EDD only plays in the summers and recently threatened to sit out an entire season (which would mean she'd have a full year and a half off from competitive basketball) if she wasn't traded to 1 specific team. In college she elected to play for a small mid major to stay close to home rather than attend a high profile school with better resources and coaching. I'm not criticizing her for her decisions, I genuinely think it's great that she has a full life outside of basketball and does seem to have a great head on shoulders, but if I'm building the Olympic team and trying to put together the best team in the world and maximize their potential, I'd rather pick someone whose heart bleeds basketball and who is 100% dedicated to the sport and becoming the best player they can be.

 

[CocoHusky]

She's a great player, no question about that. But when you're building a team, I'd rather bring someone on who has a lot of passion for the game and has shown commitment and dedication rather than a player with a history of getting burnt out and who hasn't always prioritized basketball. EDD only plays in the summers and recently threatened to sit out an entire season (which would mean she'd have a full year and a half off from competitive basketball) if she wasn't traded to 1 specific team. In college she elected to play for a small mid major to stay close to home rather than attend a high profile school with better resources at coaching. I'm not criticizing her for her decisions, I genuinely think it's great that she has a full life outside of basketball and does seem to have a great head on shoulders, but if I'm building the Olympic team and trying to put together the best team in the world and maximize their potential, I'm not sure a player like that makes the cut if I'm coaching.

Yet another example of lack of full commitment to basketball (passion?) is EDD not playing basketball overseas during the WNBA off season prior to the 2016 Olympics.

 

[EricSD]

Not trying to get in the middle of an EDD vs. Parker discussion but a few things to point out...

Lyme disease is caused by the bacterium Borrelia burgdorferi and is transmitted to humans through the bite of infected blacklegged ticks. Typical symptoms include fever, headache, fatigue, and a characteristic skin rash called erythema migrans. If left untreated, infection can spread to joints, the heart, and the nervous system.

I am not trying to discuss the minutia of Elena's disease, or the lack of passion she has had for basketball at different times in her life, but in comparing EDD to Parker, it should be limited to talk of USA Basketball (in fairness to both players). EDD felt lack of passion for hoops during her last years of HS and it carried over to UCONN. She came one day, quit, enrolled in Delaware, and did not play hoops for over a year - played volleyball instead.

Fast forward to the WNBA. No idea how much EDD's disease has impacted her career in the W. They don't pay well, and even all time greats like Dee have taken an entire year off to rest up and be healthy for other obligations (Dee was famously paid at least her WNBA salary by her Russian team to sit out a season and rest up). But neither Dee nor EDD have ever been questioned when it came to their loyalty, love for, and dedication to, USA Basketball.

Dee's decision to sit out a season had zero impact on her "passion, loyalty, and dedication" to Team USA. Neither does EDD's relationship with Chicago, or any other WNBA team (or college team for that matter) impact her relationship with Team USA. The issue is not whether Parker lacks passion for the game, or is capable of playing with passion, but whether she's been unselfish and dedicated to USA Basketball. The answer seems pretty much to be a resounding "NO", and she just made it worse since 2016... That seems to be untrue when applied to Delle Donne.

I hope people aren't really suggesting that Elena Delle Donne is unworthy to be a part of USA Basketball. If they are, I'd love to see some substantiation regarding Team USA...

 

[bballnut90]

Not trying to get in the middle of an EDD vs. Parker discussion but a few things to point out...

Lyme disease is caused by the bacterium Borrelia burgdorferi and is transmitted to humans through the bite of infected blacklegged ticks. Typical symptoms include fever, headache, fatigue, and a characteristic skin rash called erythema migrans. If left untreated, infection can spread to joints, the heart, and the nervous system.

I am not trying to discuss the minutia of Elena's disease, or the lack of passion she has had for basketball at different times in her life, but in comparing EDD to Parker, it should be limited to talk of USA Basketball (in fairness to both players). EDD felt lack of passion for hoops during her last years of HS and it carried over to UCONN. She came one day, quit, enrolled in Delaware, and did not play hoops for over a year - played volleyball instead.

Fast forward to the WNBA. No idea how much EDD's disease has impacted her career in the W. They don't pay well, and even all time greats like Dee have taken an entire year off to rest up and be healthy for other obligations (Dee was famously paid at least her WNBA salary by her Russian team to sit out a season and rest up). But neither Dee nor EDD have ever been questioned when it came to their loyalty, love for, and dedication to, USA Basketball.

Dee's decision to sit out a season had zero impact on her "passion, loyalty, and dedication" to Team USA. Neither does EDD's relationship with Chicago, or any other WNBA team (or college team for that matter) impact her relationship with Team USA. The issue is not whether Parker lacks passion for the game, or is capable of playing with passion, but whether she's been unselfish and dedicated to USA Basketball. The answer seems pretty much to be a resounding "NO", and she just made it worse since 2016... That seems to be untrue when applied to Delle Donne.

I hope people aren't really suggesting that Elena Delle Donne is unworthy to be a part of USA Basketball.

Here's a summary of Parker's experience with USA basketball:
2003 Youth Development Festival Team
2004 USA Junior World Championship Qualifying Team
2006 Opals World Challenge
2006 FIBA World Championships
2007 FIBA Americas Championships
2008 FIBA Diamond Ball Tournament
2008 Olympics
2012 Olympics
2013 USA National Team Training Camp

Here's EDD's summary:
2011 World University Games
2013 National Team Training Camp
2015 European Tour
2016 Olympics

You make the call for who has been more dedicated.

FWIW, back in 2007 EDD was withdrew from U18 trials due to personal reasons. If Parker missing one tournament in 2014 to have surgery means she's selfish and not dedicated to USA basketball after being an active member for 13 years, then I'm not sure how you can say EDD has shown more dedication when she has such a limited history on the roster.

And in regards to players like Angel/Parker/DT sitting out for stretches in the WNBA season...all of those players play overseas and make big money over there. They sat out to rest after playing year round basketball for years and years. EDD was planning to sit out a full year and a half from any competitive basketball if she wasn't traded. That to me shows a different level of dedication from the players listed above. I know you're mainly concerned about dedication to USA basketball, but I do think that's worth noting.

 

[StephStorrs]

Not to pop in on the ongoing EDD discussion, but on another thing I've noticed throughout many sports: There's a lot of people out there that think when it comes to the Olympics - though this can be said about any major competition, like the World Cup for football fans and the IIHF World Championships for hockey fans - that the BEST players should be assembled and be FORCED to play together to form a cohesive team. It's all about finding the best players who fit the system, who can play together to form a cohesive team. Parker clearly wasn't a right fit for the system. The committee could see that. The vast majority of us can see that.

It pains me to be frank here, because I am a fan of Candace and I always have been... but the fact that we're still having this conversation two years later feels pretty indicative of why she didn't make the team to begin with.

 

[EricSD]

You make the call for who has been more dedicated.

FWIW, back in 2007 EDD was withdrew from U18 trials due to personal reasons. If Parker missing one tournament in 2014 to have surgery means she's selfish and not dedicated to USA basketball after being an active member for 13 years, then I'm not sure how you can say EDD has shown more dedication when she has such a limited history on the roster.

And in regards to players like Angel/Parker/DT sitting out for stretches in the WNBA season...all of those players play overseas and make big money over there. They sat out to rest after playing year round basketball for years and years. EDD was planning to sit out a full year and a half from any competitive basketball if she wasn't traded. That to me shows a different level of dedication from the players listed above. I know you're mainly concerned about dedication to USA basketball, but I do think that's worth noting.

It seems like you are arguing Parker is somehow "owed" something. I don't recall EDD ever NOT making a USA National Team she tried out for, nor did she post petty tweets after not making a team, nor did she avoid taking any personal responsibility for her actions, nor did she permanently remove herself from Team USA. EDD came back when she was ready, earned her spot, and did it all without whining or making a big fuss. By all accounts she has a great relationship with US Basketball and all her USA teammates.

Parker's issues are all self inflicted, and her attitude subsequently has removed her from Team USA forever. No one else in the history of Team USA has had the same problems as Parker has had, but yeah, none of it is her fault. Because, you know, she's the first talented player ever to be cut from Team USA...

 

[Orangutan]

EDD was planning to sit out a full year and a half from any competitive basketball if she wasn't traded. That to me shows a different level of dedication from the players listed above.

It's the exact same move that Charles and Fowles did and that had no bearing on their USAB status either, nor should it.

 

[bballnut90]

It's the exact same move that Charles and Fowles did and that had no bearing on their USAB status either, nor should it.

Both of those players play every year overseas. EDD doesn't.

 

[Orangutan]

Yet another example of lack of full commitment to basketball (passion?) is EDD not playing basketball overseas during the WNBA off season prior to the 2016 Olympics.

Sue Bird doesn't play overseas either. Is she not fully committed to basketball?

 

[bballnut90]

Sue Bird doesn't play overseas either. Is she not fully committed to basketball?

Bird has played overseas almost her entire pro career and is 37 years old. She's also never threatened to sit out and take a full year and a half off of basketball if she wasn't traded to 1 specific team.

 

[Orangutan]

Bird has played overseas almost her entire pro career and is 37 years old. She's also never threatened to sit out and take a full year and a half off of basketball if she wasn't traded to 1 specific team.

She hasn't played overseas since 2014. What does her age have to do with anything? Is there a minimum number of overseas seasons one must play to be considered "committed to basketball". If so, why do they bother having Skylar Diggins try out? Maybe it's because playing overseas is not a prerequisite for selection on the team?

EDD threatening to sit out happened after the 2016 Olympics so it has nothing to with her being picked over Parker.

 

[bballnut90]

She hasn't played overseas since 2014. What does her age have to do with anything? Is there a minimum number of overseas seasons one must play to be considered "committed to basketball". If so, why do they bother having Skylar Diggins try out? Maybe it's because playing overseas is not a prerequisite for selection on the team?

EDD threatening to sit out happened after the 2016 Olympics so it has nothing to with her being picked over Parker.

It's the accumulation of everything. To me, she's always given off a vibe that she's wants to make basketball more of a hobby and fit it in her life rather than making her life about basketball like we see with most pros. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. I commend her for knowing where her priorities are. I probably wouldn't want someone like that on my Olympic roster though. That's my point.

Even if you take out the threatening to sit out, when you look at her getting burnt out, switching to volleyball for a year, then playing at a comfy mid major rather than a more challenging school with better coaching, reports of a loss of passion again in the pros, never opting to play overseas to improve her game, etc, it gives off the impression that the prioritization and passion just isn't there compared to pretty much everyone else on who was in contention for the Olympic team.

Other players have skipped playing overseas, threatened to sit out, etc. but when you look at all of these different instances over her career, I think it shows that her desire and drive as a basketball player isn't as high as other players.

 

[Shorty Dee]

It was quote on quote Coach Geno Auriemma fault Candace Parker didn't make the last 2 teams, so I guess it's quote on quote Coach Dawn Staley fault this time. I do not know what happen, and why Candace Parker isn't chosen to play for USA, but what I do know, it has to be higher than the Coach of the team. It may even be higher than the Committee.

 

[Orangutan]

It's the accumulation of everything. To me, she's always given off a vibe that she's wants to make basketball more of a hobby and fit it in her life rather than making her life about basketball like we see with most pros. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. I commend her for knowing where her priorities are. I probably wouldn't want someone like that on my Olympic roster though. That's my point.

Even if you take out the threatening to sit out, when you look at her getting burnt out, switching to volleyball for a year, then playing at a comfy mid major rather than a more challenging school with better coaching, reports of a loss of passion again in the pros, never opting to play overseas to improve her game, etc, it gives off the impression that the prioritization and passion just isn't there compared to pretty much everyone else on who was in contention for the Olympic team.

Other players have skipped playing overseas, threatened to sit out, etc. but when you look at all of these different instances over her career, I think it shows that her desire and drive as a basketball player isn't as high as other players.

She's finished inside of the top 3 in PER in each of the last 5 years and is currently #1 among active players in career PER. Going into the 2016 Olympics, she was the reigning MVP.

But let's not take her to the Olympics because she went to a mid-major and spent freshman year playing volleyball.

Let's not take her because she demanded a trade once.

Let's not take her because she doesn't go to China or Russia or Turkey and beat up on inferior competition every winter.

Let's not take her because she has a wife and two dogs and a family that she would like to see every once in a while and she's fortunate enough to have other revenue streams so she doesn't have to wreck her body playing year round.

Yes indeed, I sure am glad it's not *your Olympic roster*.

 

[CocoHusky]

It's all about finding the best players who fit the system, who can play together to form a cohesive team. Parker clearly wasn't a right fit for the system. The committee could see that. The vast majority of us can see that.

You are being way too logical.
The head coach (Geno) and one assistant coach ( Doug Bruno) and 9 of the 12 players ( DT, Sylvia, Maya, Sue, Catch, Tina, Angel, Seimone, & Lindsay) remained the same between the 2012 and 2016 olympics.
The entire coaching staff and 9 of the 12 players ( DT, Maya, Sue, Tina, Angel, Brittney, Stewie, Seimone, & Lindsay) remained the same between the 2014 world Championship and 2016 olympics.
Between 2012 and 2016 better fits (than Parker) for the system emerged such as Britney, EDD, and Stewie.

 

[Goodgood]

You are being way too logical.
The head coach (Geno) and one assistant coach ( Doug Bruno) and 9 of the 12 players ( DT, Sylvia, Maya, Sue, Catch, Tina, Angel, Seimone, & Lindsay) remained the same between the 2012 and 2016 olympics.
The entire coaching staff and 9 of the 12 players ( DT, Maya, Sue, Tina, Angel, Brittney, Stewie, Seimone, & Lindsay) remained the same between the 2014 world Championship and 2016 olympics.
Between 2012 and 2016 better fits (than Parker) for the system emerged such as Britney, EDD, and Stewie.

Yes. it is simple. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me"

 

[Uhuru]

Catchings has always been a favorite of mine. Parker is the anti-Catchings.