Are we still an elite program? | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Are we still an elite program?

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The whole question is pointless and ill-timed. We are going through a tough next few years. Tourney ban and changeover from the coach who brought us to the top of the mountain. We've been a top 10 program for many years. Is that "elite"? I don't know if we're "blue blood" just yet. But we're not far from it. Like it or not, the success of the women helps...it cements the image of "Basketball U".

The more interesting question is how well the program weathers the coming changes. I have no crystal ball. I am hopeful that we'll be just fine, but there will be rough patches I'm sure.
 
CL82 said:
This post pushed me over the edge to my first ignore on the new board. Clueless, negative, and wordy it's like an amalgamation of the worst traits or the board's worst posters. Congratulations Greg, you are the Tolstoy of suckiness.
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Dude is incredibly arrogant and immature. His grasp of the "big picture" non-existant.

About the original poster, I doubt he is even a UConn fan. He is more likely a umess (or Syracuse or PC or...) fan using an alias that makes him look like a UConn fan. Sorry spanky, we are elite and will be for a while longer. UNC survived its dark years while retaining its elite status and so will UConn.
 
A pretty fair question met by a pack of angry dogs. Maybe it was the wording? Lets face it, you've all been thinking it but this poor guy said it out loud
 
Clothy said:
A pretty fair question met by a pack of angry dogs. Maybe it was the wording? Lets face it, you've all been thinking it but this poor guy said it out loud
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What do you think, Clothy? Is UConn still an elite?
 
Clothy said:
A pretty fair question met by a pack of angry dogs. Maybe it was the wording? Lets face it, you've all been thinking it but this poor guy said it out loud
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Yeah, it's a totally fair question. How can Uconn possibly be considered Elite when we've only made the Final Four twice in the last four years?
 
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I think the question is more about Uconn's future. They have proved they are an elite program with accomplishments. However, when the dust clears from the recruiting scandal, coaching change and tourney ban we will all have a clearer picture of whether they'll remain elite. Your name or any feelings of entitlement won't keep you elite. '13s success or lack of will be a good barometer to the teams character. I personally think that a seamless transition to the new era is highly unlikely.
 
Clothy said:
I think the question is more about Uconn's future. They have proved they are an elite program with accomplishments. However, when the dust clears from the recruiting scandal, coaching change and tourney ban we will all have a clearer picture of whether they'll remain elite. Your name or any feelings of entitlement won't keep you elite. '13s success or lack of will be a good barometer to the teams character. I personally think that a seamless transition to the new era is highly unlikely.
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What about UMass's future? It has been 14 years since your team made the NCAA tournament.
 
Clothy said:
I think the question is more about Uconn's future. They have proved they are an elite program with accomplishments. However, when the dust clears from the recruiting scandal, coaching change and tourney ban we will all have a clearer picture of whether they'll remain elite. Your name or any feelings of entitlement won't keep you elite. '13s success or lack of will be a good barometer to the teams character. I personally think that a seamless transition to the new era is highly unlikely.
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I agree with you. UConn is still an elite program.
 
Gregory Koch said:
I base "Elite" on recent performance. Not 10 years ago's performance. So I don't think we're Elite anymore. In the last 3 years, we didn't make the tournament 1 year, happened to have a miraculous run the second year after doing mediocre for most of the season, and then lost in the first round the third year. And I really don't care about 1999 or 2004 in my definition of "elite". They were 13 and 8 years ago. I don't consider Maryland "Elite" and they won in 2002. That was 8 years ago. They were "Elite" then, but they're not now. Plain and simple.

Let's take a look at another team in the 2011 Tournament and who they beat

R64: Georgetown
R32: Purdue
Sweet 16: Florida State
Elite 8: Kansas
Final Four: Lost

So, they made it to the final four, defeating at least two premier opponents in Georgetown and Kansas. Purdue was a great team that year too. Florida State was a decent team as well.

That team is VCU. Are they Elite? Clearly not. And also, they did better than we did in the NCAA Tournament in 2012.

In 2010, neither of us made the tournament.

In 2009, we beat Chattanooga, Texas A&M, Purdue, and Missouri (hardly elite teams), before losing to Michigan State. VCU lost in the First Round, narrowly, to an excellent UCLA team. Nevertheless, we have an advantage there.

2008, we lost in the first round to a mediocre San Diego team and VCU failed to qualify.

2007, we didn't make the tournament, and VCU shocked Duke before narrowly losing to Pitt in Overtime.

2012, of course, they made the second round and we lost in the first round.

Therefore, from 2007-2012, excluding VCU's "First Four" win in 2011, the Rams have 6 wins in 4 appearances in the tournament. 2 of those came against teams seeded 3 or higher. They also beat a Duke team seeded 6th, an unusually low seed for Duke, and lost to #3 seed Pitt in OT, a game they played very well. They have 1 Final Four appearance

From 2007-2012, we have 10 wins in 4 appearances, 2 against seeds 3 or higher, and lost to San Diego, a #13 seed, in the first round. We have 2 final fours, but on the way to them, have beaten Bucknell, Cincinnati, San Diego State, Arizona, Chatanooga, Texas A&M, Purdue, and Missouri.
In 2009, we lost once we were in the Final Four, to Michigan State. In 2011, we won after beating Kentucky and Butler in the Final Four.

Obviously, VCU is not an "Elite" team. Anyone who thinks they are is an idiot.

Our Tournament performance is only slightly better than VCU over the last 6 years. They have made one Final Four, we have made 2. Butler has also made 2, and has two semifinal wins. Obviously, Butler is not elite.
We had a miracle run in 2011, so did VCU. So did Butler, for that matter. Nobody would argue that VCU was good enough to beat Georgetown, Purdue, Florida State, or Kansas on a regular basis. Perhaps FSU, but even then I don't think so.
Butler may have been on par with Old Dominion, who they beat in the first round, but nobody would argue they could beat Pitt, Wisconsin, or Florida on a regular basis. They both got lucky. So did we. The only reason we were a 3 was because we won 5 games in 5 days in the Big East Tournament. Prior to that, we were 21-9. You figure DePaul was an easy win, that gets us to 22-9, even without miracle run. If things had gone by seed, we'd have been 22-10. Big East teams with similar records were Villanova at 21-11 who got a #9 seed, Georgetown, 21-10, who got a #6 seed, and St. John's, 21-11, who also got a #6 seed. With our SOS, we'd have probably gotten a 6. Considering there was also a #8 and a #11 in the Final Four, we might have made it, but it would have been a surprise. Without the 5 games in 5 days at the BET, we would never have gotten the #3 that you guys claim made our Championship not unlikely. That was probably the best conferene-NCAA Tournament run in the history of the NCAA, but without it, it would have been another mediocre season. And not only was there one other team with a miracle tournament run that year, but there were TWO. Nobody is claiming they're Elite teams.

Yes, we were once an Elite team. But those times have gone. And this NCAA ban will hurt us even more. Maybe in 5-10 years, we will be Elite again. I hope so. But we're not now.

Edit to respond to the cross-posted post above: Do you really think Miami U football is "elite" right now? I don't. Oh, by the way, they had a recent scandal too. They'll recover. So will we. But not right now.
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Going undefeated out of conference certainly qualifies as doing mediocre for most of the year. The only thing I'll point out is there's a big difference between our recent NCAA tournament performance and VCU's. Next time you see Calhoun, look at his ring finger, and you'll notice what I'm talking about. So who are the elite teams now? By your definition, Duke must not be either, right? How about UNC? How about Kentucky? All have lost in the first round of the NCAA and/or missed the tournament. Ironically, these are the four most recent NCAA champions. So if they're not elite, who is?

I'm sorry, I know you're young, but what you just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.
 
Robertelamin said:
The only reason they were a 3 seed was because they won 5 games in 5 days? Well they did right? That has to count for something. That's why they play the games on the court and not Gregory Koch's head.
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Well, if my grandmother had a beard, she'd be my grandfather. If LeBron James decided to be a football player, the Heat wouldn't have won the title this year. If the Russians weren't lazy, Eruzione and the Americans wouldn't have defeated them in '80. We can play this game into the ground, but the fact remains, it happened.
 
need to look at the level of kids we are recruiting and has shown an interest in us for 2013 and beyond. Going by Scout as Rivals is incomplete for positional rankings, that the answer is yes.
 
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"If it wasn't for that miraculous 11 game run, 2011 would have been a mediocre year."

And if it wasn't for those 9 games we lost in the Big East regular season, we would have gone undefeated and been considered the greatest college basketball team in the history of the world!
 
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Odd that after 2011 the question was: "Is UConn a blueblood?"

The answer to the above and the OP is no.

UConn is not and won't be a blueblood for a long time (a lot of that status, IMO, relates to longevity) but they are elite. How long does it take for the status of "elite" to dissipate?

UConn is literally the only non-blue blood school to have 3+ national championships. Below are the schools with as many or more than UConn:

  • UCLA has not won a NCAAT since 1995.
  • UK (prior to this year) hadn't won one is 1998.
  • Indiana hasn't won one since 1987.
  • UNC has two since 2000.
  • Duke has two since 2000.
  • Kansas went 20 years between their championships.
Others with more than one championship:

  • Cincy: not since 1962
  • Florida: two back to backs, nothing before and not a ton after
  • UL: not since 1986
  • MSU: 12 years no NCAAT Championship
  • NCST: not since 1983
  • Oklahoma A&M: not since 1946
  • San Francisco: not since 1956
That's it. There are those 14 schools with more than one national championship.
That leaves the 6 bluebloods, UConn and seven teams with two a piece. I think you can put the seven with two a piece into 3 categories: not relevant, not elite but good solid schools, and elite.
Not relevant:
  • Oklahoma A&M: not since 1946
  • San Francisco: not since 1956
Not elite but good solid program/school:
  • Cincy: not since 1962
  • NCST: not since 1983
Elite:
  • Florida: two back to backs, nothing before and not a ton after
  • UL: not since 1986.
  • MSU: 12 years no NCAAT Championship
UConn may never enter the realm of blueblood but they can definitely be classified as being in the Elite group with Florida/UL/MSU. It will take more than a few bad years (with a final four and a NC included in those years) to drop UConn off that level.


What programs (outside the bluebloods) are more elite than UConn?


I think only UL and MSU have an argument.


It's not just UConn having to fall off, but another programming actually stepping up. I would say UConn is a top 10 program and it isn't #9 or #10. Is that elite? Who can catch UConn? Call me when some team actually supplants UConn, not just when UConn has a down year.
 
Clothy said:
jeopardy- Is Huskymaniac still and idiot?
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What are you saying Douchy? That anyone who thinks UConn is an elite program is an idiot? One would have to assume this is your implication since this was your lame ass response to me answering "yes" to the question "Are we still an elite program". I find it hilarious that you misspell "an" in an attempt to call someone an idiot. If I am an idiot your are almost dumb enough to not be able to breathe on your own.
 
Huskymaniac said:
If I am an idiot your are almost dumb enough to not be able to breathe on your own.
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This is what I love about message boards. Someone calls someone else dumb for a typo and in the process of calling that person "dumb" trots out an incoherent sentence of their own.
 
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Please stop using the word "". Among those involved with those with Special Needs that word is equivalent to the N word. I don't see that word used here. And 3 National championships in 12 years not only makes us an elite program, but it may make us the MOST elite. I thought winning championships is what really counts.
 
caw said:
Odd that after 2011 the question was: "Is UConn a blueblood?"

The answer to the above and the OP is no.

UConn is not and won't be a blueblood for a long time (a lot of that status, IMO, relates to longevity) but they are elite. How long does it take for the status of "elite" to dissipate?

UConn is literally the only non-blue blood school to have 3+ national championships. Below are the schools with as many or more than UConn:

  • UCLA has not won a NCAAT since 1995.
  • UK (prior to this year) hadn't won one is 1998.
  • Indiana hasn't won one since 1987.
  • UNC has two since 2000.
  • Duke has two since 2000.
  • Kansas went 20 years between their championships.
Others with more than one championship:

  • Cincy: not since 1962
  • Florida: two back to backs, nothing before and not a ton after
  • UL: not since 1986
  • MSU: 12 years no NCAAT Championship
  • NCST: not since 1983
  • Oklahoma A&M: not since 1946
  • San Francisco: not since 1956
That's it. There are those 14 schools with more than one national championship.
That leaves the 6 bluebloods, UConn and seven teams with two a piece. I think you can put the seven with two a piece into 3 categories: not relevant, not elite but good solid schools, and elite.
Not relevant:
  • Oklahoma A&M: not since 1946
  • San Francisco: not since 1956
Not elite but good solid program/school:
  • Cincy: not since 1962
  • NCST: not since 1983
Elite:
  • Florida: two back to backs, nothing before and not a ton after
  • UL: not since 1986.
  • MSU: 12 years no NCAAT Championship
UConn may never enter the realm of blueblood but they can definitely be classified as being in the Elite group with Florida/UL/MSU. It will take more than a few bad years (with a final four and a NC included in those years) to drop UConn off that level.


What programs (outside the bluebloods) are more elite than UConn?


I think only UL and MSU have an argument.


It's not just UConn having to fall off, but another programming actually stepping up. I would say UConn is a top 10 program and it isn't #9 or #10. Is that elite? Who can catch UConn? Call me when some team actually supplants UConn, not just when UConn has a down year.
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I would have to say the success of the women's program cements our place overall as a blue blood basketball school. We will remain a destination school for the northeast as long as facilities are state-of-the-art. People will look back and acknowledge. We have a reputation now as an elite school with the international academic community. Who'd have imagined that would happen in 1990?
 
Butchy said:
I would have to say the success of the women's program cements our place overall as a blue blood basketball school. We will remain a destination school for the northeast as long as facilities are state-of-the-art. People will look back and acknowledge. We have a reputation now as an elite school with the international academic community. Who'd have imagined that would happen in 1990?
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I just don't see UConn as blueblood because of the relative lack of history. Blueblood implies length of greatness not just greatness, IMO. If UConn sustains this level for another 25 years then you can start discussing UConn being a Blueblood. Or if UConn wins a bunch of championships or something unique.
 
caw said:
I just don't see UConn as blueblood because of the relative lack of history. Blueblood implies length of greatness not just greatness, IMO. If UConn sustains this level for another 25 years then you can start discussing UConn being a Blueblood. Or if UConn wins a bunch of championships or something unique.
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I can understand your perspective. But from the way things seem, this is just the beginning for UConn. The school has been skyrocketing in just about all aspects since joining the Big East.
 
UCONNFAN179 said:
Everyone is wondering what will become of UConn hoops post Jim Calhoun. Articles are being written, threads are being posted, etc., wondering if we will be able to maintain elite status. But are we really elite anymore?

As much as I want to say yes, if Kemba's team doesn't have that miraculous post season run in 2011, and even the most optimistic UConn fan must admit we caught lightning in a bottle then, I'm not sure. Our last 7 years have been very mediocre and our post season record has been awful. The numbers below don't look like that of an elite program.

The 2011 title allowed us to maintain the elite perception, but the recent underlying numbers don't support it. I can't help but wonder if Arizona hits that 3 in the 2011 tourney if UConn would still be perceived as a top hoop school.

Anyway, I'm not looking to get slammed here. I'd love JC to stay 10 more years. But I'm just taking an honest look at recent history and really, it's not 'all that.'

With new facilities, etal, a new coach can likely at least maintain our recent records and hopefully even improve.

Honest thoughts?

YEAR RECORD BE RECORD BE SEED BE TRN WINS NCAA TRN SEED NCAA TRN WINS
2007 17-14 6-10 12 0 x 0
2008 25-8 13-5 4 0 4 0
2009 27-4 15-3 3 0 1 4
2010 18-16 7-11 12 0 x 0
2011 32-9 9-9 9 5 3 6
2012 20-14 8-10 9 2 9 0
2013 x 0 x 0

Total 139-65 58-48 7 10
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Wait a second, wait a second. You mean to tell me we play basketball at the University of Connecticut?
 
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