Andra Espinoza-Hunter considering six schools for transfer

[CocoHusky]

I could care less what Dan Olsen labels them as. I guarantee I have watched more tape on all of them!

You probably have watched more tape of them than Dan. Dan only evaluates players he's seen play IN PERSON.

 

[eebmg]

You said: "Chong (in my eyes) never got her just reward (more and early playing time)" Some think Chong did get an early just reward. If you remember, she was promoted to the starting lineup at the beginning of her sophomore year. Most would consider that a just reward. She played and started the first game of the season on the road in California against UC Davis. She scored 12 points in 22 minutes of play. Three days later, she started the next game against Stanford, a game that UConn lost in overtime. She scored a team high 20 points in 35 minutes. During the post game presser, Geno said that while Chong scored 20 points, her man scored 30 (it was actually only 24 = Lili Thompson 8/13 - 7/12). Clearly, Geno was not happy. In that game, Nurse and Tuck fouled out.

Chong and Kiah Stokes, who had also been promoted to a starter were removed from the starting lineup, and replaced by Kia Nurse and Morgan Tuck. Chong nor Stokes were able to regain their starting positions because of the success of their replacements. Geno said many times that Chong did not get a lot of playing time because of her poor defensive skills, and that he was not going to play her until she did. Basically, she could not keep her man in front of her the way Kia did and does. Over the summer heading into her senior year, Chong finally mastered the technique of keeping her man in front of her to Geno's satisfaction. Thus she was once again promoted to a starter. Any long time casual observer of the UConn women's team could tell the difference. The same way Dangerfield has mastered that technique. The difference between Crystal's defense last year and this year is huge.

Chong's junior year was fraught with injury (I-Band). She was (according to reports) physically unable to play on many occasions during the season. During this time, she still had not mastered the art of playing defense to Geno's satisfaction, so that coupled with her injury, she sat. Chong was a fan favorite. Of course fans wanted to see her play. There were reasons why she did not. If it's your opinion those reasons were unjust or unfair, so be it.

Beside some skill limitations (and injury implications for Saniya) early in their respective careers, both also had issues in confidence / attitude:

1) Kiah Stokes never really wanted to become a dominant offensive figure imho. More than most, she seemed happy filling the defensive niche that was definitely valuable but kept her from being the dominant alpha inside on the offensive end.

2) Saniya had issues with confidence and consistency that she herself would state in interviews. She just kept having self doubts all the time. Finally, by senior year, she got over the hurdle and the rest is history.

Bottom line. You show you can handle it, you will find the opportunities.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

True, but she most likely would have been if she had played her Sr year. She was still ranked in the top 20 even without playing.

How she got rated top 20 is one of the mysteries of the universe.

 

[TitleTown]

You probably have watched more tape of them than Dan. Dan only evaluates players he's seen play IN PERSON.

Yeah and since he has so many evaluations to do he can't spend a ton of time on each player. Since I mostly only watch tape of recruits that UConn has interest in, I can spend a lot more time on each player than he can. Also watching tape, IMHO, is more valuable than watching in person in evaluating players because you get a much better view of the entire court and can rewind and isolate plays.

 

[CocoHusky]

Yeah and since he has so many evaluations to do he can't spend a ton of time on each player. Since I mostly only watch tape of recruits that UConn has interest in, I can spend a lot more time on each player than he can. Also watching tape, IMHO, is more valuable than watching in person in evaluating players because you get a much better view of the entire court and can rewind and isolate plays.

No matter how much work you've put in to say "you don't care what Dan Olson thinks" because "you know better" is kind of frankly irrational. I can't any more with you, there are way too many other conversations on this board I want to participate in.

 

[Centerstream]

No matter how much work you've put in to say "you don't care what Dan Olson thinks" because "you know better" is kind of frankly irrational. I can't any more with you, there are way too many other conversations on this board I want to participate in.

I love it when we posters know more than any other poster and will stick to our opinions no matter what (sarcasm here....and I am not directing this at CocoHusky any more than I am directing it to all others that read this)

 

[HuskyNan]

How she got rated top 20 is one of the mysteries of the universe.

It’s The UConn Effect. Some kids rise in the ranking when it’s known they’re going to UConn.

Jessica Moore was unranked before she committed to UConn and top 30 after.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

It’s The UConn Effect. Some kids rise in the ranking when it’s known they’re going to UConn.

I guess that has something to with it but I wonder if the fact that she was a coach's daughter and her team was a national powerhouse didn't help as well. She was rated much higher than her teammate Osahor who turned out pretty darn good.

 

[UConnCat]

I guess that has something to with it but I wonder if the fact that she was a coach's daughter and her team was a national powerhouse didn't help as well. She was rated much higher than her teammate Osahor who turned out pretty darn good.

There was a certain poster here, @wallman , who predicted Ekmark would struggle at UConn and that Osahor was the best player on her high school team.

 

[DefenseBB]

How she got rated top 20 is one of the mysteries of the universe.

Ok, I looked up both HoopGurlz and Prospect Nation 2014 Rankings
HG-31 PN-26 Courtney
HG-17 PN-8 Sadie (that's right freakin' 8! WTF???)
HG-14 PN-18 Gabby
HG-33 PN-NR Kia (I don't PN rated "foreign players")

This either tells us the Rating groups are dart board throwers or Geno/CD really develop their players. Here's the full list.

HG- 2014 HoopGurlz Recruiting Rankings - espnW 100 - ESPN
PN- 2014 Players | Prospects Nation

 

[CocoHusky]

Ok, I looked up both HoopGurlz and Prospect Nation 2014 Rankings
HG-31 PN-26 Courtney
HG-17 PN-8 Sadie (that's right freakin' 8! WTF???)
HG-14 PN-18 Gabby
HG-33 PN-NR Kia (I don't PN rated "foreign players")

This either tells us the Rating groups are dart board throwers or Geno/CD really develop their players. Here's the full list.

HG- 2014 HoopGurlz Recruiting Rankings - espnW 100 - ESPN
PN- 2014 Players | Prospects Nation

The latter part is definitely true but the dart throwing part is not. There have always been descrepancies among the rating services for some of the worst reasons but also some very valid reasons. Among the worst reasons is AAU affiliation. Some of the rating services will boost your ratings if you play in thier tournament or play for AAU teams. This also includes ESPN. ESPN runs a post season tournament used to be called ESPN Rise now called Dick's HS Tournament. Being on television the game features and higlights ESPN ranked players. ESPN also broadcast both the Jordan Classic and the McD's AA games. The people that run these rating services are also some very knowlegable people and if you take the time to write to them they will actually write back and you can have a better understanding of thier rating philosophies. Chris Hansen at Prospectsnation used to be at ESPN and that guy is a great human being as is Brett Mccormack who runs All Star Girls Report & Mark Lewis over at Blue Star Media.

 

[TitleTown]

No matter how much work you've put in to say "you don't care what Dan Olson thinks" because "you know better" is kind of frankly irrational. I can't any more with you, there are way too many other conversations on this board I want to participate in.

Nobody begged you to respond.

 

[Charliebball]

Yeah and since he has so many evaluations to do he can't spend a ton of time on each player. Since I mostly only watch tape of recruits that UConn has interest in, I can spend a lot more time on each player than he can. Also watching tape, IMHO, is more valuable than watching in person in evaluating players because you get a much better view of the entire court and can rewind and isolate plays.

watching video is helpful if you are watching a game in it's entirety but clips really don't tell the story................I've been to nine games in the past four days and there's nothing like watching these players live to really figure them out..............

 

[HuskyNan]

The latter part is definitely true but the dart throwing part is not. There have always been descrepancies among the rating services for some of the worst reasons but also some very valid reasons. Among the worst reasons is AAU affiliation. Some of the rating services will boost your ratings if you play in thier tournament or play for AAU teams. This also includes ESPN. ESPN runs a post season tournament used to be called ESPN Rise now called Dick's HS Tournament. Being on television the game features and higlights ESPN ranked players. ESPN also broadcast both the Jordan Classic and the McD's AA games. The people that run these rating services are also some very knowlegable people and if you take the time to write to them they will actually write back and you can have a better understanding of thier rating philosophies. Chris Hansen at Prospectsnation used to be at ESPN and that guy is a great human being as is Brett Mccormack who runs All Star Girls Report & Mark Lewis over at Blue Star Media.

I used to work with Chris, Clay Kallam , and Glenn Nelson scouting recruits for Scout. We talked about the criteria for ratings and decided we would rank based on potential rather than the product that we currently saw on the court. FWIW, I argued that it was meaningless to have rankings that included all five positions, preferring one for guards and one for forward/centers, but that’s not what people want to see so I lost that argument.

A scout’s personal preferences come into play in rankings. I was never won over by chuckers that would score 40 points while forcing shots and ignoring her teammates, no matter how talented. I’d take a Kelly Faris over a Kelly Mazzante every day and twice on Sunday. We had some interesting, and friendly, arguments and some of the rankings were compromises to accommodate everyone’s opinions. I actually think rankings composed by a group is better than rankings done by an individual as it helps to eliminate some biases.

 

[TitleTown]

watching video is helpful if you are watching a game in it's entirety but clips really don't tell the story......I've been to nine games in the past four days and there's nothing like watching these players live to really figure them out....

I agree that "highlight" tapes are pretty much useless when it comes to player evaluation.

 

[nwhoopfan]

her teammate Osahor who turned out pretty darn good.

I can confirm that.

 

[CocoHusky]

I used to work with Chris, Clay Kallam , and Glenn Nelson scouting recruits for Scout. We talked about the criteria for ratings and decided we would rank based on potential rather than the product that we currently saw on the court. FWIW, I argued that it was meaningless to have ranking that included all five positions, preferring one for guards and one for forward/centers, but that’s not what people want to see so I lost that argument.
A scout’s personal preferences come into play in rankings. I was never won over by chuckers that would score 40 points while forcing shots and ignoring her teammates, no matter how talented. I’d take a Kelly Faris over a Kelly Mazzante every day and twice on Sunday. We had some interesting, and friendly, arguments and some of the rankings were compromises to accommodate everyone’s opinions. I actually think rankings composed by a group is better than rankings done by an individual as it helps to eliminate some biases.

Oh my goodness you just don't know how much energy (well maybe you do) has been spent on that highlighted sentence trying to get parents to understand that simple concept. Mike Flynn was the first to successfully explain it to me. I never met Clay but I bought several pictures of my daughter from Glen he was handy with the camera and always seemed to have one with him. I had many disagreements with Chris mostly over my daughters ranking, we eventually compromised and she was included Chris' tip sheet more than any other player-says the proud dad who was probably the only person counting.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Wow. That Hoopgurlz 2014 rankings list is pretty bad in retrospect. A few vastly underrated players, but more players that were overrated and didn't amount to much. Some superstars sprinkled in there, but not much depth.

I won't bore everybody w/ what I found w/ some researching, but overall that was a horrible class for the Pac 12! Many top 20 players that didn't develop much, some ended up transferring out. A few lower down the list medically retired or also transferred out, without accomplishing much before they left. Pretty much only Canada, Billings, McPhee and Simon panned out with the team they originally signed w/. A couple others stuck around and ended up being role players, didn't come anywhere close to living up to their ranking. The conference did get a bit of a bonus w/ several players that transferred in and became contributors. Still, overall the class of '14 was mostly a bust for the conference.


edited--of course Marie Gulich, coming from Germany, is not on this list. Not sure she would've been considered top 100 even if she was in the US in HS, but she has developed into a tremendous post player

 

[BroadwayVa]

Prospect Nation had them as
Coombs and AEH - Guard
Walker and Gordan - Wing

In reality we know

Walker is a 3. Possibly able to play the 4 at UCONN (don't think she will at the next level though) Also might be able to play some 2. But mainly she's a 3
Coombs is a 2/1 and will probably play quite a bit of 1 here
AEH is a 2, pretty much through and through. Might have filled in some at the 3 for UCONN.
Gordon is a 3/2.

Not completely different, but somewhat different. Definitely wasn't 4 of the same.

Back a couple of years, coming in anyway... Nurse, Williams, Edwards, Ekmark were probably closer to being the same than the Walker/Coombs/AEH/Gordon class. And Nurse/Williams vastly diverged.

I agree with this but diverge a bit---Edwards good at most all she did--had parents who apparently thought she had more game, as a frosh, than she had---not a good match for Geno. Ekmark, had a lot of pre Uconn press and whether it was injury or abilities she never lived up to expectations and transferred when she saw the new guys were coming in--like AEH I had great expectation for Courtney EK. From what I think I remember--Courtney Ek worked hard to give Geno what he asked of her.
However if we get a NURSE or GABBY out of the Walker/Coombs/AEH/Gordon class--I'll be thrilled.
One more divergence--in terms of "position", as we have seen Geno will use them where he needs them . Also, I believe just an observation, that Geno expects his players ALL to have guard skills and be good to better to great shooters--in any given game it's hard at times to put a stamp on KLS, GABBY, Nurse--or Z at times..

 

[HuskyNan]

Oh my goodness you just don't know how much energy (well maybe you do) has been spent on that highlighted sentence trying to get parents to understand that simple concept. Mike Flynn was the first to successfully explain it to me. I never met Clay but I bought several pictures of my daughter from Glen he was handy with the camera and always seemed to have one with him. I had many disagreements with Chris mostly over my daughters ranking, we eventually compromised and she was included Chris' tip sheet more than any other player-says the proud dad who was probably the only person counting.

Well, Scout ranked based on how we thought a player would do in college. We kicked around ranking on full potential - WNBA and the Olympic team, for example, but decided our crystal balls weren’t quite that good. It was hard enough projecting how we thought they’d do in college.

 

[Bigboote]

Ok, I looked up both HoopGurlz and Prospect Nation 2014 Rankings
HG-31 PN-26 Courtney
HG-17 PN-8 Sadie (that's right freakin' 8! WTF???)
HG-14 PN-18 Gabby
HG-33 PN-NR Kia (I don't PN rated "foreign players")

This either tells us the Rating groups are dart board throwers or Geno/CD really develop their players. Here's the full list.

HG- 2014 HoopGurlz Recruiting Rankings - espnW 100 - ESPN
PN- 2014 Players | Prospects Nation

And Saniya Chong was the Parade (and IIRC WBCA) national player of the year and was ranked 75th by Hoopgurlz.

 

[Woof 101]

It’s The UConn Effect. Some kids rise in the ranking when it’s known they’re going to UConn.

Jessica Moore was unranked before she committed to UConn and top 30 after.

BINGO .....For those that do not believe what is stated here simply check out football recruits for a bit and it is rampant. Not as noticeable in basketball because of the lower number involved. But a two / three star recruit going to an average school immediately gains a star by signing with a higher profile school.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

It should be noted that Molly Bent only got on one top-100 list, ASGR, and Kyla Irwin only got on one, Blue Star. I think Ekmark had a reputation that went beyond UConn. Coach's daughter and at a top-10 school that won all the time plus could make threes.

 

[CocoHusky]

Wow. That Hoopgurlz 2014 rankings list is pretty bad in retrospect. A few vastly underrated players, but more players that were overrated and didn't amount to much. Some superstars sprinkled in there, but not much depth.
I won't bore everybody w/ what I found w/ some researching, but overall that was a horrible class for the Pac 12!

Maybe there is something wrong with the Pac 10 then, because each of the other P5 seem to be doing just fine with the 2014 class.
Conference POY from the 2014 class.
A'Ja Wilson-SEC
Hines-Allen-ACC
Brooke McCarthy- Big 12
Kelsey Mitchell-Big 10.

 

[Dillon77]

Maybe there is something wrong with the Pac 10 then, because each of the other P5 seem to be doing just fine with the 2014 class.
Conference POY from the 2014 class.
A'Ja Wilson-SEC
Hines-Allen-ACC
Brooke McCarthy- Big 12
Kelsey Mitchell-Big 10.

Brianna Turner (#2 in Hoopgurlz, #5 in Prospects Nation) hasn't had too shabby a career either, including two-time ACC Defensive Player of the Year, ACC Rookie of the Year (2015) and 2016 ACC Player of the Year (Coaches) .

And while Kathryn Westbeld has not won the kind of accolades her classmate, she's been a starter for most of the last three years and been the Irish "glue player" according to her head coach, Muffet McGraw. In fact, she just came off a career high 21 points and 12 rebounds at FSU.

So the Irish have done pretty well with their 2014 class, as well.

Brianna Turner Bio :: Notre Dame Women's Basketball :: UND.COM :: The Official Site of ND Athletics