Analyzing Which Schools Could End Up Joining the ACC?

[Zissou]

So whats our problem? Our revenue is 48th in the whole country.

As an outsider I'll probably get blasted for this, but my honest view is:

New Money. In my opinion UConn is a new Blue Blood in Basketball, emerging only 10 years behind Duke and equally dominant in modern history. During that time UConn's academics have also gained in perception. I think UConn is 60 in the latest US News ranking. Regardless of facts, UConn is probably viewed unfairly by some as an average state school without a long prestigious history. No memorable football history (FCS). Even with UConn's positive actual academic standing, it's not AAU accredited, a factor (but not an absolute) for the B1G.

Location. While there are some pluses to UConn's location (overlap with NYC market and New England in general), it is also an outlier for the P5 footprints. But wait, BC is even further isolated! Yes, they are an exception, but also a not very successful example.

Rivalries. This is too often overlooked. Rivalries are huge for a program's exposure and fan base interest, but always take a back seat in CR. I would guess Cincy is your best in-conference rival, and that is a stretch. You should be able to hop in a car and show up at an away game. This is a big disadvantage in the AAC.

Politics. Ugh, politics. When UConn took the high road and backed the Big East, BC split. UConn fought the move and bad blood at BC remained. When UConn was working through strengthening the Big East in CR, Pitt was recommending that the conference reject a $1.4B ESPN contract, reject Nova's move up in football, all while negotiating entrance to the ACC. With friends like that... Anyway, treachery is unfortunately rewarded and loyalty not valued. Politics is related to the rivalries for sure. BC without UConn as a rival is a lesser program, and vice versa. The Yankees and Red Sox are hated rivals, but both are better for it. UNC and Duke are hated rivals, but both are better for it. UConn not only lost BC, but it lost Cuse, Georgetown, Nova, St John's, and Providence. Even if some of those teams have not been good every year, rivalries extend past that with their history (and generally some shared regional footprint). BC punished UConn, but BC has also withered as an ACC island without UConn. Who is BC's big rival?

Imo, UConn should be P5. But since you are not, I'd rather see UConn join the Big East. It is better to have some regional rivals and be in a basketball-first conference. Keep FBS football in the AAC or in another alignment (even independent), and if the P5 opportunity comes in 5 or 10 years you are no worse off. Football in the AAC is not going to be the difference maker in CR. 2011 showed that football and basketball results take a back seat.

 

[Kemba429]

As an outsider I'll probably get blasted for this, but my honest view is:

New Money. In my opinion UConn is a new Blue Blood in Basketball, emerging only 10 years behind Duke and equally dominant in modern history. During that time UConn's academics have also gained in perception. I think UConn is 60 in the latest US News ranking. Regardless of facts, UConn is probably viewed unfairly by some as an average state school without a long prestigious history. No memorable football history (FCS). Even with UConn's positive actual academic standing, it's not AAU accredited, a factor (but not an absolute) for the B1G.

Location. While there are some pluses to UConn's location (overlap with NYC market and New England in general), it is also an outlier for the P5 footprints. But wait, BC is even further isolated! Yes, they are an exception, but also a not very successful example.

Rivalries. This is too often overlooked. Rivalries are huge for a program's exposure and fan base interest, but always take a back seat in CR. I would guess Cincy is your best in-conference rival, and that is a stretch. You should be able to hop in a car and show up at an away game. This is a big disadvantage in the AAC.

Politics. Ugh, politics. When UConn took the high road and backed the Big East, BC split. UConn fought the move and bad blood at BC remained. When UConn was working through strengthening the Big East in CR, Pitt was recommending that the conference reject a $1.4B ESPN contract, reject Nova's move up in football, all while negotiating entrance to the ACC. With friends like that... Anyway, treachery is unfortunately rewarded and loyalty not valued. Politics is related to the rivalries for sure. BC without UConn as a rival is a lesser program, and vice versa. The Yankees and Red Sox are hated rivals, but both are better for it. UNC and Duke are hated rivals, but both are better for it. UConn not only lost BC, but it lost Cuse, Georgetown, Nova, St John's, and Providence. Even if some of those teams have not been good every year, rivalries extend past that with their history (and generally some shared regional footprint). BC punished UConn, but BC has also withered as an ACC island without UConn. Who is BC's big rival?

Imo, UConn should be P5. But since you are not, I'd rather see UConn join the Big East. It is better to have some regional rivals and be in a basketball-first conference. Keep FBS football in the AAC or in another alignment (even independent), and if the P5 opportunity comes in 5 or 10 years you are no worse off. Football in the AAC is not going to be the difference maker in CR. 2011 showed that football and basketball results take a back seat.

I dont really want to give up football to join the Big East. The ACC imo fits us perfectly with BC, Cuse, L'ville, Pitt. all being the old big east teams, so rivalries certainly wouldnt be a problem. Our revenue is 72 mil. Location, oh location... Sense the tournament will be back in Carolina, no they dont need the Barclays center to be a home for the ACC tournament... BUT, the ACC has been trying to get the New York market, which UConn generates more than Syracuse in the NY City area (Upstate is obviously all Syracuse) which would give them even more of that TV market. With the politics, I would hope that the new governor would back UConn on getting into a better conference to get more cash into Hartford. With all of this maybe the ACC, B10, Big East, whoever... might see this as a good decision. Hopefully.

 

[Zissou]

I dont really want to give up football to join the Big East.

And you shouldn't. A P5 invite is of course more valuable than the Big East. But sans a P5 invite, I think the Big East is a better home for UConn than the AAC. As a Big East fan, "we would welcome UConn with open arms". It maybe a better short term spot than the AAC. (and keep your football FBS).

 

[huskeynut]

As an outsider I'll probably get blasted for this, but my honest view is:

New Money. In my opinion UConn is a new Blue Blood in Basketball, emerging only 10 years behind Duke and equally dominant in modern history. During that time UConn's academics have also gained in perception. I think UConn is 60 in the latest US News ranking. Regardless of facts, UConn is probably viewed unfairly by some as an average state school without a long prestigious history. No memorable football history (FCS). Even with UConn's positive actual academic standing, it's not AAU accredited, a factor (but not an absolute) for the B1G.

Location. While there are some pluses to UConn's location (overlap with NYC market and New England in general), it is also an outlier for the P5 footprints. But wait, BC is even further isolated! Yes, they are an exception, but also a not very successful example.

Rivalries. This is too often overlooked. Rivalries are huge for a program's exposure and fan base interest, but always take a back seat in CR. I would guess Cincy is your best in-conference rival, and that is a stretch. You should be able to hop in a car and show up at an away game. This is a big disadvantage in the AAC.

Politics. Ugh, politics. When UConn took the high road and backed the Big East, BC split. UConn fought the move and bad blood at BC remained. When UConn was working through strengthening the Big East in CR, Pitt was recommending that the conference reject a $1.4B ESPN contract, reject Nova's move up in football, all while negotiating entrance to the ACC. With friends like that... Anyway, treachery is unfortunately rewarded and loyalty not valued. Politics is related to the rivalries for sure. BC without UConn as a rival is a lesser program, and vice versa. The Yankees and Red Sox are hated rivals, but both are better for it. UNC and Duke are hated rivals, but both are better for it. UConn not only lost BC, but it lost Cuse, Georgetown, Nova, St John's, and Providence. Even if some of those teams have not been good every year, rivalries extend past that with their history (and generally some shared regional footprint). BC punished UConn, but BC has also withered as an ACC island without UConn. Who is BC's big rival?

Imo, UConn should be P5. But since you are not, I'd rather see UConn join the Big East. It is better to have some regional rivals and be in a basketball-first conference. Keep FBS football in the AAC or in another alignment (even independent), and if the P5 opportunity comes in 5 or 10 years you are no worse off. Football in the AAC is not going to be the difference maker in CR. 2011 showed that football and basketball results take a back seat.

Agree with everything except the football paragragh. With the money and time invested, UConn has proven it can compete in P5 football. Te last 6 years have hurt us perception wise but their is a reasonable chance to bounce back. "Our friends" from the old Big East didn't want any part of UConn getting into the P5 crowd.

The New Big Est would be a definite step down. Its a no brainer. We stay in the AAC.

 

[don356]

Hypothetical:

UConn football over the next four years goes:
17: 5-7
18: 7-6
19: 8-5
20: 9-4

UConn basketball over the next four years goes:
17: 20-10
18: 23-7
19: 22-8
20: 23-7

Football ticket sales boost up after Edsall's first season, and still bringing in more revenue than any other GO5 school by a mile.

At this point, when our football team is consistent four a long stretch, and basketball turns around back to usual, would this almost guarantee to be out of the American?

The competition, interesting piece.

Who has the best football-basketball combination school in college sports?

 

[SpartyCyclone]

The competition, interesting piece.

Who has the best football-basketball combination school in college sports?

FWIW, to my knowledge, only Michigan State and Florida have multiple national championships in both football and basketball.

 

[Kemba429]

And you shouldn't. A P5 invite is of course more valuable than the Big East. But sans a P5 invite, I think the Big East is a better home for UConn than the AAC. As a Big East fan, "we would welcome UConn with open arms". It maybe a better short term spot than the AAC. (and keep your football FBS).

Where would our football land, independent? I wouldnt mind that.

 

[uconnell]

FWIW, to my knowledge, only Michigan State and Florida have multiple national championships in both football and basketball.

I thought that MSU only won 1NC, although played 11 or more times in the tourney, for basketball.

 

[don356]

FWIW, to my knowledge, only Michigan State and Florida have multiple national championships in both football and basketball.

It's interesting 2 of the top 15 are non P5.

 

[Kemba429]

I thought that MSU only won 1NC, although played 11 or more times in the tourney, for basketball.

1979 and 2000

 

[uconnell]

1979 and 2000

Thanks for the information.

 

[Zissou]

Where would our football land, independent? I wouldnt mind that.

It's in the other CR thread, but basically should UConn join the Big East, their best first option is to keep football in the AAC as football-only. If that could not be successfully negotiated, then go independent. An Alliance of Eastern Independents would not be a conference (so there could be no conference title game), but would be a scheduling alliance and a TV rights alliance.

I think it would be possible for the Alliance to get $5 to $10M per school from a TV deal that might include FS1, SNY, YES, or other regional sports networks. If FS1 took the lead on such a deal, I think you pull in Cincy and Temple, and maybe Navy too. If Aresco didn't keep UConn in the fold, maybe he risks starting competition in the mid Altlantic - North East footprint.

Right now UConn gets maybe $2.2M for TV rights for all sports. The alternative could be $4M to $5M for Men's basketball with the Big East, plus $5M to $10M for football only, plus maybe keeping its own rights for women's basketball.

 

[huskymedic]

I think it would be possible for the Alliance to get $5 to $10M per school from a TV deal that might include FS1, SNY, YES, or other regional sports networks. If FS1 took the lead on such a deal, I think you pull in Cincy and Temple, and maybe Navy too. If Aresco didn't keep UConn in the fold, maybe he risks starting competition in the mid Altlantic - North East footprint.

Right now UConn gets maybe $2.2M for TV rights for all sports. The alternative could be $4M to $5M for Men's basketball with the Big East, plus $5M to $10M for football only, plus maybe keeping its own rights for women's basketball.

 

[Zissou]

View attachment 21981

Your current contract has certainly set low expectations. While there are opinions of future value, what is fact is that Big East Basketball currently is valued more than AAC Football and Basketball combined.

 

[Zissou]

For those that think about academic fit in CR:

The Alliance
Navy #12 National LA
Army #19 National LA
Nova #50 National University
UConn #60 National University
Delaware #79 National University
JMU #8 Regional University
Temple #118 National University
Cincinnati #135 National University

For Comparison
USF #159 National University
Louisville #171 National University
UCF #176 National University
WVU #183 National University
Houston #194 National University
E Carolina #210 National University
Memphis Not Ranked

 

[don356]

Your current contract has certainly set low expectations. While there are opinions of future value, what is fact is that Big East Basketball currently is valued more than AAC Football and Basketball combined.

Those days are numbered. Trust me.

 

[UConnDan97]

I love any thread that advocates the idea that James Madison and Delaware are the keys to getting more tv money...

 

[whaler11]

I love any thread that advocates the idea that James Madison and Delaware are the keys to getting more tv money...

I like that UMass isn't invited.

 

[Zissou]

I love any thread that advocates the idea that James Madison and Delaware are the keys to getting more tv money...

If your current playmates are EC and Memphis, you're not too good for UD and JMU.

 

[don356]

Please, with the exception of Xavier and a great draw, all of those Big East teams were out in weekend 1 of the tourney this year. Let's quit trying to portray all these new big east schools like they are world beaters. Providence, Seton Hall, Gtown etc. are no different than they were in the old Big East. Memphis has had more success the past 1o years.

 

[Zissou]

Please, with the exception of Xavier and a great draw, all of those Big East teams were out in weekend 1 of the tourney this year. Let's quit trying to portray all these new big east schools like they are world beaters. Providence, Seton Hall, Gtown etc. are no different than they were in the old Big East. Memphis has had more success the past 1o years.

No one is portraying any of these programs as world beaters, but I'll play along. Prov, SH, and GTown all were rated higher (KenPom) than Memphis last year. And let's throw in St John's for good measure. They are all better rivalries for UConn than Memphis, considering history and location.

Also Memphis pretty much sets the min academic standard for the AAC - very low.

 

[Zissou]

1979 and 2000

1979: Magic over Bird
2000: Izzo's only title

 

[Zissou]

No one is portraying any of these programs as world beaters, but I'll play along. Prov, SH, and GTown all were rated higher (KenPom) than Memphis last year. And let's throw in St John's for good measure. They are all better rivalries for UConn than Memphis, considering history and location.

Also Memphis pretty much sets the min academic standard for the AAC - very low.

Better than holding up Memphis as the conference Gold Standard, I'd note UConn has a title for the conference, Larry Brown put SMU basketball back on the map and they continued to be strong last year without him, Cincy is generally good in both hoops and football, and while Houston has been very good in football, they have also surged in hoops.

 

[UConnDan97]

If your current playmates are EC and Memphis, you're not too good for UD and JMU.

I didn't say we were too good for JMU and UD. I said to think that they were the key to more tv money is pretty dumb.

But you're a 'Nova fan. What on earth did I expect...

 

[Zissou]

I didn't say we were too good for JMU and UD. I said to think that they were the key to more tv money is pretty dumb.

"Key" to the Alliance? I would not say they are "Key" - more like part of the solution. Just like Tulsa is not "Key" to the AAC. There are back-ups / options, like ODU in place of JMU. Having 8 programs facilitates scheduling and a TV package. More important is the small footprint / independent approach.