Am I a hall of famer? (Active players only) | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Am I a hall of famer? (Active players only)

Gerrit Cole?

Very Good Regular Season Stats. +9k per 9 innings. 3.17 era, whip slightly higher than 1, 2100+ K’s, 145 wins but does this metric still matter, only one cy young.

Great postseason stats with every team Pirates, Astros and Yankees.

IMO two more very good years after this year, if he comes back this year and pitches to the back of his baseball card maybe only more very good year and 2 or 3 average years, I think he is in. Right now he still has some work to do but he is close.

Will the sticky stuff, spin-rate issue impact his chances? I really don’t know their whole team was doing it and Verlander, I think is a shoe in HOFamer.

Will this be treated like Steroids. Because it had to be more widespread than just the guys that were caught. Would anyone of suspected Andy Petite was juicing.

Baseball because of the history seems more of these preclusion issues than the rest of the team sports.

Is sticky stuff worse than deflated balls or filming opponent practice pre Super Bowl. Sorry Pats fans but the only way that Patriot team was going to beat the “Greatest Show on Turf” was to cheat and they did.
 
Connecticut13 said:
If Stanton gets to 500 hrs, he has a very real shot at getting in. Only player who has hit 500 hr and not made it is Sheffield - but he had steroid suspicion clouding his candidacy - among other character issues. Only question here is whether Stanton will stay healthy enough to get to 500. He's at 416 currently.
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There are at least two more players that hit more than 600 HR’s not in the HOF. Until those two are addressed Sheffield has no chance.

Stanton still hits the ball harder than any other current player when he hits it. I could see him hitting 30-40 HR in one or two more seasons after this year so I can see him getting to 500. He will have trouble when he moves on from Yankees as right know with that line up I would think the pitcher is ok getting to Stanton. But he still absolutely mashes the ball. Hardest hit ball in majors this year, hardest ball ever hit per stat cast. He is still kind of a freak in this area.
 
nomar said:
He's been to 9 Pro Bowls, too. I was surprised by how good his resume is.
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I feel like we need to move quickly past mentioning any all star type appearance in any sport at this point. Especially football.

On Wilson? Geez. That's a tough one. His passing stats aren't elite or top tier in the booming era of passing stats. Great game manager, limited mistakes, made tough plays. Don't get me wrong. I'd have taken him on the Jets all day. But I think he'll go down as a middle of the road guy in time.
 
Deepster said:
I feel like we need to move quickly past mentioning any all star type appearance in any sport at this point. Especially football.

On Wilson? Geez. That's a tough one. His passing stats aren't elite or top tier in the booming era of passing stats. Great game manager, limited mistakes, made tough plays. Don't get me wrong. I'd have taken him on the Jets all day. But I think he'll go down as a middle of the road guy in time.
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That stuff counts, whether you like it or not. (I do agree Pro Bowls are inflated, because half the guys are injured and then they add replacements.)

These stats don't seem middle of the road. He's 4th all-time in passer rating. 19th in yards. 13th in TDs. 14th in Y/PA. 20th in completion %. 8th in INT %. 10th in game-winning drives. 134th in rushing yards (including RBs, obviously).

Passing attempts:5,665
Passing completions:3,668
Completion percentage:64.7%
TD–INT:334–106
Passing yards:43,653
Passer rating:100.0
Rushing yards:5,307
Rushing touchdowns:29
 
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nomar said:
Check out Pedro’s stats from 1999-2000, in the heart of the steroids era, and tell me if you think you can still say “perhaps.”

Just a couple nuggets to whet your appetite: 1.39 FIP (!!!) and 13.2 K/9 in 1999 and a 0.737 WHIP (!!!) in 2000. Against guys with heads the size of planets.
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Also check out Maddux from 93-96.
 
nomar said:
The line has to be drawn somewhere. For a long time, I think Koufax has set the mark for a guy with a short career. The line's been blurred a bit (e.g., Kirby Puckett), but there's still a minimum amount of production that's required in my view.
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Gave you a like just for that unintentionally correct and inappropriate comment.

Kirby had 2300 hits, won a batting title, an RBI title and was a leader on two separate championship teams. A bunch of gold gloves too. There's a bunch of other players who represent the HoF Mendoza line.
 
nomar said:
That stuff counts, whether you like it or not. (I do agree Pro Bowls are inflated, because half the guys are injured and then they add replacements.)

These stats don't seem middle of the road. He's 4th all-time in passer rating. 19th in yards. 13th in TDs. 14th in Y/PA. 20th in completion %. 8th in INT %. 10th in game-winning drives. 134th in rushing yards (including RBs, obviously).

Passing attempts:5,665
Passing completions:3,668
Completion percentage:64.7%
TD–INT:334–106
Passing yards:43,653
Passer rating:100.0
Rushing yards:5,307
Rushing touchdowns:29
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Duly noted.....but 15 years from now, he'll be surpassed easily by Justin Herbert, Trevor Lawrence and a bunch of pretty average QB's that simply played in an inflated passing era. Wilson got there passing guys like John Elway and Jim Kelly on the "all time charts" even though I'm not sure he was even close to either of them on the field.
 
Deepster said:
Duly noted.....but 15 years from now, he'll be surpassed easily by Justin Herbert, Trevor Lawrence and a bunch of pretty average QB's that simply played in an inflated passing era. Wilson got there passing guys like John Elway and Jim Kelly on the "all time charts" even though I'm not sure he was even close to either of them on the field.
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I mean, statistically he’s better than Kelly in pretty much every way.
 
Chin Diesel said:
Gave you a like just for that unintentionally correct and inappropriate comment.

Kirby had 2300 hits, won a batting title, an RBI title and was a leader on two separate championship teams. A bunch of gold gloves too. There's a bunch of other players who represent the HoF Mendoza line.
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Not saying he didn't deserve to get in. My point was that 3,000 hits used to be the marker and that Puckett's unfortunate deterioration helped usher in a new era of people looking at things qualitatively as well as quantitatively. I wasn't suggesting he's the least deserving member. He's no Harold Baines.

(It also helped that Puckett was regarded as a good guy. When in fact he may well not have been so swell of a guy.)
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
I mean, statistically he’s better than Kelly in pretty much every way.
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It's a fair point, for sure. But Joe Montana's numbers are pedestrian. Is he not one of the greatest QBs ever? Football changed. QB stats are totally different from how they used to be. Maybe that means players are more talented now. It's hard to compare guys from different eras. With the game on the line, I think I'd still want Joe Montana with the ball in his hands over some of these guys throwing 40 TDs a year.
 
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nomar said:
It's a fair point, for sure. But Joe Montana's numbers are pedestrian. Is he not one of the greatest QBs ever? Football changed. QB stats are totally different from how they used to be. Maybe that means players are more talented now. It's hard to compare guys from different eras. With the game on the line, I think I'd still want Joe Montana with the ball in his hands over some of these guys throwing 40 TDs a year.
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Montana won 4 Super Bowls and 2 MVPs. Kelly won a lot of games but couldn’t get the big one.
 
nomar said:
It's a fair point, for sure. But Joe Montana's numbers are pedestrian. Is he not one of the greatest QBs ever? Football changed. QB stats are totally different from how they used to be. Maybe that means players are more talented now. It's hard to compare guys from different eras. With the game on the line, I think I'd still want Joe Montana with the ball in his hands over some of these guys throwing 40 TDs a year.
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Wilson's numbers are pedestrian but has a chance based on his reputation as a "winner." Only 1 SB, but Seattle was one of the teams that defined the sport in the 2010s and won a lot of games and he was the QB.

I would not have him in though. If they ran Marshawn Lynch at the goal line, probably.
 
The 1 player who has been benefitted the most from the recent NFL rule changes to help QBs/Offenses is Russell Wilson. So, if you look at his relative stats, he should get in. Top 5 all-time passer rating - c'mon. But, that stat has become meaningless.

But, if you think about his career without studying his stats, he's borderline at best. When I think about him, the first thing that pops in my head is - "All you had to do was run the ball!!!"
 
Tenspro2002 said:
Wilson's numbers are pedestrian but has a chance based on his reputation as a "winner." Only 1 SB, but Seattle was one of the teams that defined the sport in the 2010s and won a lot of games and he was the QB.

I would not have him in though. If they ran Marshawn Lynch at the goal line, probably.
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I listed his numbers above. They're better than you think. 4th all-time in passer rating.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
Montana won 4 Super Bowls and 2 MVPs. Kelly won a lot of games but couldn’t get the big one.
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Well yeah. My point was that you can't just go on stats.
 
nomar said:
Well yeah. My point was that you can't just go on stats.
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I wasn’t just going off stats to begin with, just in that scenario comparing Kelly and Wilson. Take away the modernization of the passing game, Russ was way better taking care of the ball, and as we’ve said, 4th in passer rating all time is quite impressive.

Similar to Paul George, 9 all stars (pro bowls) is a big number. Herbert and possibly Lawrence will pass hum eventually, but I don’t think that means much. Herbert imo is a generational talent, and Lawrence isn’t too far off either.
 
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nomar said:
Not saying he didn't deserve to get in. My point was that 3,000 hits used to be the marker and that Puckett's unfortunate deterioration helped usher in a new era of people looking at things qualitatively as well as quantitatively. I wasn't suggesting he's the least deserving member. He's no Harold Baines.

(It also helped that Puckett was regarded as a good guy. When in fact he may well not have been so swell of a guy.)
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I look at as 3000 was the marker for guaranteed to get in. Not getting 3000 hits wasn't a criteria for entry- Ruth, Gehrig, Williams are good arguments for not needing 3k hits to get in.
 
Teddie1056 said:
This is the tier list for baseball

Tier 1: First Ballot Locks
1. Mike Trout
2. Justin Verlander
3. Clayton Kershaw
4. Max Scherzer

Tier 2: Probably 1st Ballot
1. Mookie Betts
2. Freddie Freeman
3. Aaron Judge
4. Shohei Ohtani
5. Bryce Harper
6. Gerrit Cole
7. Juan Soto
8. Ronald Acuna Jr.

Tier 3: Probably HoF
1. Joey Votto
2. Paul Goldschmidt
3. Nolan Arenado
4. Manny Machado
5. Jose Altuve
6. Jose Ramirez
7. Cory Seager
8. Jose Ramirez

Tier 4: Borderline HoF/Has work to do
1. Jacob deGrom
2. Andrew McCutchen
3. Chris Sale
4. Giancarlo Stanton
5. Marcus Semien
6. Francisco Lindor
7. Christian Yelich
8. Alex Bregman
9. J.T. Realmuto
10. Trea Turner
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Slow your role on acuna, he is more likely to be out of game than hof. He is rumored to have a right elbow issue that could end his career. Although the most talented guy in majors, he has a horrendous attitude and refuses to hustle on a daily basis. Now out 2 out of 3 years, hof not in his future. He is not a winner. Hurley would bench him.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
Montana won 4 Super Bowls and 2 MVPs. Kelly won a lot of games but couldn’t get the big one.
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He brought his team to four straight super bowls on a high powered offense (at the time). He was better in his time than Wilson was in his. For sure.
 
Deepster said:
He brought his team to four straight super bowls on a high powered offense (at the time). He was better in his time than Wilson was in his. For sure.
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Wilson’s Passer Rating is miles better and went to 2 Super Bowls himself, winning 1. Way less turnovers.
 
Jaydumo20 said:
After the passing of a legit hall of famer (RIP Larry Allen)
I got to thinking about current players, across the major sports, who are as "on the fence" as you can get.

Here are my 3 (I don't really know hockey)
1. Giancarlo Stanton
2. Russell Wilson
3. Al Horford

Are these guys hall of famers???
(In my opinion, only Russ will make it)

You can respond to mine, or post some "on the fencers" of your own. Try to keep it to active players, just for ease of process.
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Russ Wilson might not be.

Some of the mentions of Chris Sale are hilarious, he’ll be off the first ballot faster than Giancarlo. Some other good, debatable ones are:

  • Rafael Devers, needs some accolades + better stats. But he is young, currently a 21 WAR.
  • Frank Gore, might be in more comfortably than others, but who knows.
  • Draymond Green, that’s an interesting one.
 
Deepster said:
He brought his team to four straight super bowls on a high powered offense (at the time). He was better in his time than Wilson was in his. For sure.
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He had one of the most loaded offenses with which to work. Kelly is a bit over-hyped in my book. I have no problem with him being in the Hall, but Russell has been just as good. He'll, McNabb's numbers are similar to Kelly"s.
 
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MilliniumPrince said:
He had one of the most loaded offenses with which to work. Kelly is a bit over-hyped in my book. I have no problem with him being in the Hall, but Russell has been just as good. He'll, McNabb's numbers are similar to Kelly"s.
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I think you made my point.

In 15 years, no one will talk about McNabb, Kelly.....or Wilson.
 
WNBA - Diana Taurasi
No longer active, but Huskies Sue Bird and Maya Moore will be in Naismith sooner than later.
 
Deepster said:
Well, I'm old and a huge football fan. Ask a typical 20 yr old today who Jim Kelly was.
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Those would be casual fans :cool:

I’m 28 and I know who Jim Kelly is. Never saw him play obviously. I just think Russ is in a higher tier.
 
Andre Drummond (not a joke)

Obviously not near the fence if he retired today, but if he plays another 6-7 years he will have some really good stats (besides points) comparable to top hall of fame centers.
 
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