Am I a hall of famer? (Active players only)

[boog204]

when did a little above average qualify for HOF. The names ur throwing out are for the most part meh!! Only one is Trout who is a great player. Comparing DeGrom to Koufax is laughable at best. Sandy was one of top 5 EVER. Please do not denigrate him. I’ve been around too long. HOF should be WAY ABOVE AVERAGE.

deGrom has the second lowest whip in the history of baseball. Granted, he has thrown less innings than many on the list. But in the history of baseball. And WAR is not everyone's thing, but his WAR is already higher than Koufax's with 1000 IPs less. I am not saying he is better than Koufax but the comp is there.

 

[Jaydumo20]

Mookie Betts - already in.

Rafael Devers - has a good path to 500 HRs. Has a Ring. Clutch in playoffs. Will eventually get in.

Xander Boegarts - No.

Wes Welker - Deserves to be in. Invented the slot receiver. Gave up his body. 1 ill-timed dropped ball should not keep him out.

Julien Edelman - super clutch with Brady. Yes.

I agree with most of this. I'm not sure about the Devers thing though. Unless he hits 30 or more Homer's in each of the next 10 seasons he doesn't come close to 500 HR. He needs to have 3 or 4 more all- star caliber years to come close to 300 and he's already in his 8th season.
I think his value is a bit inflated because he's been the only Red Sox star since Betts left.
He is a great player, and killing it this year, but I think he needs to do a lot more.

 

[Deepster]

deGrom is not a HOFer right now and that's coming from someone who's seen probably 90%+ of his innings pitched.

He wasn't durable enough.
He couldn't be counted on to carry a team through a season.
He doesn't have a memorable postseason run.
He really doesn't even have a keynote "major league" moment (Kerry Wood's 20k's, Pedro's 19k, 1 hit game at Yankee Stadium, etc).

The Mets clearly made the right move not signing him to a long term deal (one of their only good moves) and I just cannot see him coming back to have a special ending to his career like a Verlander. For his frame and the torque he generates, the human arm cannot withstand what he does to it.

To be honest? I'd almost like to see him try to come back like Eckersley and close.

 

[dennismenace]

Stanton won't sniff the HOF, probably drops off first ballot. Agree on Horford being a lock since it's not just NBA

Off the top of my head:

MLB - Chris Sale
NHL - Erik Karlsson
NBA - John Wall
NFL - Mike Evans

Stanton career stats:

SUMMARY
2024
Career
WAR
0.3
44.2
AB
199
5807
H
46
1500
HR
14
416
BA
.231
.258
R
24
882
RBI
32
1063
SB
0
42

He still has time and finally took some training hints and lost maybe 15 lbs (?) to help him from getting injured so much. I think it was all muscle but he had really become a strikeout machine. Major leaguers are permitted by contract to have their own personal trainer vs team trainer. That can really work to one's detriment
if they are not attuned to the nuances of the sport they are playing. Ironically, he has a reputation of being the hardest worker in the weight room. No one hits the ball harder per stat cast so if he can adapt like say Yaz as the years go by he still has a chance imo.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Trout is a no-brainer. Trout's injuries have tainted a potentially legendary career. But even as is, he'll be around 500hrs and 7 top two finishes in the MVP when he retires.

Freeman won't be a first ballot guy. But I think the numbers, all-around play, and the fact that he is such a good guy will get him in.

deGrom has two cy youngs and as mentioned was Koufax esque for a 3-4 year period of time. Wins for SP have become highly devalued so his "counting" numbers will be based on a sub 1 whip which is historically incredible --just looked it up, literally 2nd best in the history of baseball--.

Greinke should get in eventually

Giancarlo will be interesting. 500hrs was always the benchmark and we'll most likely get there. He could be the first to get to that number and have a tough time getting in.

There's a few likely/no doubt other HOFs still active I think... Verlander, Scherzer, Kershaw

It will actually be interesting how baseball HOF cases are presented, especially for pitchers with counting numbers like wins being devalued.

The case is less straightforward than "300 wins, 3000 strikeouts."

Rate stats matter more -- ERA, WHIP, FIP, K/9 -- but then you have to make an argument about "an impressive rate, for a sufficiently long time" in a way that was easier when you could just use counting stats. How do you quantify "hits/runs denied"? I suppose pitching WAR is supposed to do that, but that's also harder to argue about than counting stats.

 

[nomar]

It will actually be interesting how baseball HOF cases are presented, especially for pitchers with counting numbers like wins being devalued.

The case is less straightforward than "300 wins, 3000 strikeouts."

Rate stats matter more -- ERA, WHIP, FIP, K/9 -- but then you have to make an argument about "an impressive rate, for a sufficiently long time" in a way that was easier when you could just use counting stats. How do you quantify "hits/runs denied"? I suppose pitching WAR is supposed to do that, but that's also harder to argue about than counting stats.

IMO, if a guy comes in and pitches like Steve Nebraska for a season and then his arm falls off, he's not a Hall of Famer even if he was the best pitcher of all time in that one season.

The line has to be drawn somewhere. For a long time, I think Koufax has set the mark for a guy with a short career. The line's been blurred a bit (e.g., Kirby Puckett), but there's still a minimum amount of production that's required in my view.

Boog's arguing that DeGrom's WHIP should get him in. His WHIP is that great because he got hurt (repeatedly) before he could decline. (Pedro's WHIP over 7 years in Boston, in more IP than DeGrom's career IP -- again, in the heart of the steroid era -- is better than DeGrom's career WHIP.) Every time DeGrom came out he threw gas, but he just didn't come out enough. Maybe he'll add a coda to his career -- maybe, as Deep suggests, he could be a closer for a few years a la Smoltz. Still not sure that would be enough but it would help.

This all leads to a bigger discussion about guys throwing too hard and what it's doing to their careers. Certainly, because of injuries, the standard for how long a career needs to be will go down. But 1325 IP for a starter is way too low.

 

[mauconnfan]

Jacob deGrom is an interesting one. Perhaps the best pitcher ever over a two season span and had a good first several years but since his second cy young injuries derailed his career. I dont think he gets in.

No shot. I would compare him somewhat to Mattingly in the fact Donnie was the best hitter in baseball for 5 years and pretty good for a few others but it’s a no for him. So DeGromm has zero chance.

 

[Deepster]

deGrom's average fastball by year (with IP in parentheses). The jump in velo and the dip in innings is so apparent, even a Dove could figure that out.

2014: 94.2 MPH (140.1)
2015: 95.7 MPH (191.0)
2016: 94.0 MPH (148.0)
2017: 95.2 MPH (201.1)
2018: 96.0 MPH (217.0)
2019: 96.9 MPH (204.0)
-------------------------
2020: 98.6 MPH (68.0)
2021: 99.2 MPH (92.0)
2022: 98.9 MPH (64.1)
2023: 98.7 MPH (30.1)
2024: (0)

 

[Edward Sargent]

After the passing of a legit hall of famer (RIP Larry Allen)
I got to thinking about current players, across the major sports, who are as "on the fence" as you can get.

Here are my 3 (I don't really know hockey)
1. Giancarlo Stanton
2. Russell Wilson
3. Al Horford

Are these guys hall of famers???
(In my opinion, only Russ will make it)

You can respond to mine, or post some "on the fencers" of your own. Try to keep it to active players, just for ease of process.

Of those 3 I would say Horford

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Of those 3 I would say Horford

Wilson will get in. Before 2022 his stats were immense. 4th in career passer rating as well.

 

[nomar]

Wilson will get in. Before 2022 his stats were immense. 4th in career passer rating as well.

He's been to 9 Pro Bowls, too. I was surprised by how good his resume is.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

He's been to 9 Pro Bowls, too. I was surprised by how good his resume is.

Yeah, I think he gets overlooked because of their defense in the mid 2010’s. He was Rodgers-esque in terms of efficiency.

 

[Hunt for 7]

Gerrit Cole?

Very Good Regular Season Stats. +9k per 9 innings. 3.17 era, whip slightly higher than 1, 2100+ K’s, 145 wins but does this metric still matter, only one cy young.

Great postseason stats with every team Pirates, Astros and Yankees.

IMO two more very good years after this year, if he comes back this year and pitches to the back of his baseball card maybe only more very good year and 2 or 3 average years, I think he is in. Right now he still has some work to do but he is close.

Will the sticky stuff, spin-rate issue impact his chances? I really don’t know their whole team was doing it and Verlander, I think is a shoe in HOFamer.

Will this be treated like Steroids. Because it had to be more widespread than just the guys that were caught. Would anyone of suspected Andy Petite was juicing.

Baseball because of the history seems more of these preclusion issues than the rest of the team sports.

Is sticky stuff worse than deflated balls or filming opponent practice pre Super Bowl. Sorry Pats fans but the only way that Patriot team was going to beat the “Greatest Show on Turf” was to cheat and they did.

 

[Hunt for 7]

If Stanton gets to 500 hrs, he has a very real shot at getting in. Only player who has hit 500 hr and not made it is Sheffield - but he had steroid suspicion clouding his candidacy - among other character issues. Only question here is whether Stanton will stay healthy enough to get to 500. He's at 416 currently.

There are at least two more players that hit more than 600 HR’s not in the HOF. Until those two are addressed Sheffield has no chance.

Stanton still hits the ball harder than any other current player when he hits it. I could see him hitting 30-40 HR in one or two more seasons after this year so I can see him getting to 500. He will have trouble when he moves on from Yankees as right know with that line up I would think the pitcher is ok getting to Stanton. But he still absolutely mashes the ball. Hardest hit ball in majors this year, hardest ball ever hit per stat cast. He is still kind of a freak in this area.

 

[Deepster]

He's been to 9 Pro Bowls, too. I was surprised by how good his resume is.

I feel like we need to move quickly past mentioning any all star type appearance in any sport at this point. Especially football.

On Wilson? Geez. That's a tough one. His passing stats aren't elite or top tier in the booming era of passing stats. Great game manager, limited mistakes, made tough plays. Don't get me wrong. I'd have taken him on the Jets all day. But I think he'll go down as a middle of the road guy in time.

 

[nomar]

I feel like we need to move quickly past mentioning any all star type appearance in any sport at this point. Especially football.

On Wilson? Geez. That's a tough one. His passing stats aren't elite or top tier in the booming era of passing stats. Great game manager, limited mistakes, made tough plays. Don't get me wrong. I'd have taken him on the Jets all day. But I think he'll go down as a middle of the road guy in time.

That stuff counts, whether you like it or not. (I do agree Pro Bowls are inflated, because half the guys are injured and then they add replacements.)

These stats don't seem middle of the road. He's 4th all-time in passer rating. 19th in yards. 13th in TDs. 14th in Y/PA. 20th in completion %. 8th in INT %. 10th in game-winning drives. 134th in rushing yards (including RBs, obviously).

Passing attempts:	5,665
Passing completions:	3,668
Completion percentage:	64.7%
TD–INT:	334–106
Passing yards:	43,653
Passer rating:	100.0
Rushing yards:	5,307
Rushing touchdowns:	29

 

[Mr. French]

Check out Pedro’s stats from 1999-2000, in the heart of the steroids era, and tell me if you think you can still say “perhaps.”

Just a couple nuggets to whet your appetite: 1.39 FIP (!!!) and 13.2 K/9 in 1999 and a 0.737 WHIP (!!!) in 2000. Against guys with heads the size of planets.

Also check out Maddux from 93-96.

 

[Chin Diesel]

The line has to be drawn somewhere. For a long time, I think Koufax has set the mark for a guy with a short career. The line's been blurred a bit (e.g., Kirby Puckett), but there's still a minimum amount of production that's required in my view.

Gave you a like just for that unintentionally correct and inappropriate comment.

Kirby had 2300 hits, won a batting title, an RBI title and was a leader on two separate championship teams. A bunch of gold gloves too. There's a bunch of other players who represent the HoF Mendoza line.

 

[Deepster]

That stuff counts, whether you like it or not. (I do agree Pro Bowls are inflated, because half the guys are injured and then they add replacements.)

These stats don't seem middle of the road. He's 4th all-time in passer rating. 19th in yards. 13th in TDs. 14th in Y/PA. 20th in completion %. 8th in INT %. 10th in game-winning drives. 134th in rushing yards (including RBs, obviously).

Passing attempts:	5,665
Passing completions:	3,668
Completion percentage:	64.7%
TD–INT:	334–106
Passing yards:	43,653
Passer rating:	100.0
Rushing yards:	5,307
Rushing touchdowns:	29

Duly noted.....but 15 years from now, he'll be surpassed easily by Justin Herbert, Trevor Lawrence and a bunch of pretty average QB's that simply played in an inflated passing era. Wilson got there passing guys like John Elway and Jim Kelly on the "all time charts" even though I'm not sure he was even close to either of them on the field.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Duly noted.....but 15 years from now, he'll be surpassed easily by Justin Herbert, Trevor Lawrence and a bunch of pretty average QB's that simply played in an inflated passing era. Wilson got there passing guys like John Elway and Jim Kelly on the "all time charts" even though I'm not sure he was even close to either of them on the field.

I mean, statistically he’s better than Kelly in pretty much every way.

 

[nomar]

Gave you a like just for that unintentionally correct and inappropriate comment.

Kirby had 2300 hits, won a batting title, an RBI title and was a leader on two separate championship teams. A bunch of gold gloves too. There's a bunch of other players who represent the HoF Mendoza line.

Not saying he didn't deserve to get in. My point was that 3,000 hits used to be the marker and that Puckett's unfortunate deterioration helped usher in a new era of people looking at things qualitatively as well as quantitatively. I wasn't suggesting he's the least deserving member. He's no Harold Baines.

(It also helped that Puckett was regarded as a good guy. When in fact he may well not have been so swell of a guy.)

 

[nomar]

I mean, statistically he’s better than Kelly in pretty much every way.

It's a fair point, for sure. But Joe Montana's numbers are pedestrian. Is he not one of the greatest QBs ever? Football changed. QB stats are totally different from how they used to be. Maybe that means players are more talented now. It's hard to compare guys from different eras. With the game on the line, I think I'd still want Joe Montana with the ball in his hands over some of these guys throwing 40 TDs a year.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

It's a fair point, for sure. But Joe Montana's numbers are pedestrian. Is he not one of the greatest QBs ever? Football changed. QB stats are totally different from how they used to be. Maybe that means players are more talented now. It's hard to compare guys from different eras. With the game on the line, I think I'd still want Joe Montana with the ball in his hands over some of these guys throwing 40 TDs a year.

Montana won 4 Super Bowls and 2 MVPs. Kelly won a lot of games but couldn’t get the big one.

 

[Tenspro2002]

It's a fair point, for sure. But Joe Montana's numbers are pedestrian. Is he not one of the greatest QBs ever? Football changed. QB stats are totally different from how they used to be. Maybe that means players are more talented now. It's hard to compare guys from different eras. With the game on the line, I think I'd still want Joe Montana with the ball in his hands over some of these guys throwing 40 TDs a year.

Wilson's numbers are pedestrian but has a chance based on his reputation as a "winner." Only 1 SB, but Seattle was one of the teams that defined the sport in the 2010s and won a lot of games and he was the QB.

I would not have him in though. If they ran Marshawn Lynch at the goal line, probably.

 

[IndyLives]

The 1 player who has been benefitted the most from the recent NFL rule changes to help QBs/Offenses is Russell Wilson. So, if you look at his relative stats, he should get in. Top 5 all-time passer rating - c'mon. But, that stat has become meaningless.

But, if you think about his career without studying his stats, he's borderline at best. When I think about him, the first thing that pops in my head is - "All you had to do was run the ball!!!"