Am I a hall of famer? (Active players only) | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Am I a hall of famer? (Active players only)

CTBasketball said:
Russ Wilson might not be.

Some of the mentions of Chris Sale are hilarious, he’ll be off the first ballot faster than Giancarlo. Some other good, debatable ones are:

  • Rafael Devers, needs some accolades + better stats. But he is young, currently a 21 WAR.
  • Frank Gore, might be in more comfortably than others, but who knows.
  • Draymond Green, that’s an interesting one.
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Frank Gore should be in, but will annoy people who complain about "compilers." Still, longevity and being the #3 rusher all time counts for something, even if he didn't dominate his era.
 
Poe said:
Andre Drummond (not a joke)

Obviously not near the fence if he retired today, but if he plays another 6-7 years he will have some really good stats (besides points) comparable to top hall of fame centers.
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Drummond will be a trivia question, not a Hall of Famer. He's been completely irrelevant in the league other than his All-Universe rebounding (an increasingly irrelevant skill given that teams are playing 4-out, i.e. no teammates competing for boards, and often not even contesting offensive rebounds as a matter of strategy). He's won 2 playoff games ever, and no series.

A good litmus test is "can you tell the story of the NBA (or whatever league) without this guy?" and in Drummond's case the answer is clearly "yes."
 
Tenspro2002 said:
Drummond will be a trivia question, not a Hall of Famer. He's been completely irrelevant in the league other than his All-Universe rebounding (an increasingly irrelevant skill given that teams are playing 4-out, i.e. no teammates competing for boards, and often not even contesting offensive rebounds as a matter of strategy). He's won 2 playoff games ever, and no series.

A good litmus test is "can you tell the story of the NBA (or whatever league) without this guy?" and in Drummond's case the answer is clearly "yes."
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Yeah, as one of the biggest Andre fans, unfortunately he has no shot. Unless he somehow reinvents his career a la Brook Lopez and contributes to a winning team. It’s crazy that he is only 30.
 
Tenspro2002 said:
Drummond will be a trivia question, not a Hall of Famer. He's been completely irrelevant in the league other than his All-Universe rebounding (an increasingly irrelevant skill given that teams are playing 4-out, i.e. no teammates competing for boards, and often not even contesting offensive rebounds as a matter of strategy). He's won 2 playoff games ever, and no series.

A good litmus test is "can you tell the story of the NBA (or whatever league) without this guy?" and in Drummond's case the answer is clearly "yes."
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I completely agree with you on Drummond.

I'm not a fan of that litmus test though because there are tons of guys that are HoFer's where I can skip over them in telling the story of the league. Likewise there are guys that are very noteworthy but aren't good enough for the HoF. Frank Gore from your previous post is someone that doesn't need to be mentioned when discussing the NFL. For baseball, Adrian Beltre is a no doubt HoFer but do you really need to include him if you are going through 150 years of the MLB?
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
Wilson’s Passer Rating is miles better and went to 2 Super Bowls himself, winning 1. Way less turnovers.
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That doesn't take into account the era. Turnovers weren't something that were as big of a no-no as they are now. There are tons of guys now who have better passer ratings compared to all time greats. Dan Marino finished his career with an 86.4 passer rating. Matt Ryan is at 93.6. Marino had a 3% interception rate and Ryan had a 2.2% rate.
 
lavuuk153 said:
That doesn't take into account the era. Turnovers weren't something that were as big of a no-no as they are now. There are tons of guys now who have better passer ratings compared to all time greats. Dan Marino finished his career with an 86.4 passer rating. Matt Ryan is at 93.6. Marino had a 3% interception rate and Ryan had a 2.2% rate.
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I mean, inherently turnovers have kinda always been a big no-no. Guys are just more skilled now IMO. And technology and efficiency and all that is stressed.
 
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Chin Diesel said:
I look at as 3000 was the marker for guaranteed to get in. Not getting 3000 hits wasn't a criteria for entry- Ruth, Gehrig, Williams are good arguments for not needing 3k hits to get in.
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Yeah, although you didn't need 3,000 hits if you had 500 homers, another magic number. Ruth had 714, Williams had 521 (and missed time due to his service), and Gehrig had 493 and was Gehrig. But in any event, I think we're all in agreement that using counting stats and magic numbers like that are dumb. It should be qualitative. Which it certainly was with Puckett. I was trying to use him as a positive example but my language was clumsy.
 
boog204 said:
Trout is a no-brainer. Trout's injuries have tainted a potentially legendary career. But even as is, he'll be around 500hrs and 7 top two finishes in the MVP when he retires.

Freeman won't be a first ballot guy. But I think the numbers, all-around play, and the fact that he is such a good guy will get him in.

deGrom has two cy youngs and as mentioned was Koufax esque for a 3-4 year period of time. Wins for SP have become highly devalued so his "counting" numbers will be based on a sub 1 whip which is historically incredible --just looked it up, literally 2nd best in the history of baseball--.

Greinke should get in eventually

Giancarlo will be interesting. 500hrs was always the benchmark and we'll most likely get there. He could be the first to get to that number and have a tough time getting in.

There's a few likely/no doubt other HOFs still active I think... Verlander, Scherzer, Kershaw
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Zach Greinke should get in - not only for his career stats but for also being Zach - he’s a really interesting guy!
 
lavuuk153 said:
That doesn't take into account the era. Turnovers weren't something that were as big of a no-no as they are now.
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In my day, guys would turn it over three, four times a half and no one minded. Different era. Real men.
 
lavuuk153 said:
That doesn't take into account the era. Turnovers weren't something that were as big of a no-no as they are now. There are tons of guys now who have better passer ratings compared to all time greats. Dan Marino finished his career with an 86.4 passer rating. Matt Ryan is at 93.6. Marino had a 3% interception rate and Ryan had a 2.2% rate.
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It's a consequence of the scoring environment.

In a low-scoring era, taking risks to score points is worthwhile, and turnovers not as big a deal because so many more possessions ended in punts.

In a high-scoring era, you want to dink and dunk down the field (the Brady offense) and minimize turnovers.

Think about the difference between MLB baseball and slow-pitch softball. In MLB, you take more risks to score. In softball, avoiding outs is more important.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
Those would be casual fans :cool:

I’m 28 and I know who Jim Kelly is. Never saw him play obviously. I just think Russ is in a higher tier.
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If you never saw a guy play then how are you able to have an opinion on him and compare him to another player unless your just using stats?
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
Yeah, as one of the biggest Andre fans, unfortunately he has no shot. Unless he somehow reinvents his career a la Brook Lopez and contributes to a winning team. It’s crazy that he is only 30.
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I thought for sure you were out of mind and googled it, and holy crap, he's only 30. I feel like he's been in the league for like 15-16 years.
 
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Taco said:
Zach Greinke should get in - not only for his career stats but for also being Zach - he’s a really interesting guy!
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I'm assuming he's done. So 225 wins, 3.49 era, 6 all stars, cy young, 2 era titles, 6 gold gloves. I would think he'd be a guy who gets in on like the 6th or 7th ballot.
 
Jbirdp5 said:
If you never saw a guy play then how are you able to have an opinion on him and compare him to another player unless your just using stats?
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Stats and accomplishments*. Not seeing someone play doesn’t exempt them from a comparison. That would be a ridiculous sentiment
 
Fan1978 said:
Slow your role on acuna, he is more likely to be out of game than hof. He is rumored to have a right elbow issue that could end his career. Although the most talented guy in majors, he has a horrendous attitude and refuses to hustle on a daily basis. Now out 2 out of 3 years, hof not in his future. He is not a winner. Hurley would bench him.
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love a "doesn't hustle" a year after stealing 70+ bases. horrendous attitude but teammates love him. out 2 of 4 years* (that first year he was on a 9 fwar/162 pace). Not a winner but they've literally never not won the division in his career. no "rumor" of his "career threatening" elbow injury listed anywhere. not on google, not on a twitter search, not on reddit, etc.

but yeah i'm probably not putting a 26 year old that high in my future HOF tier no matter what. No matter how wrong you are about everything else
 
Tenspro2002 said:
It's a consequence of the scoring environment.

In a low-scoring era, taking risks to score points is worthwhile, and turnovers not as big a deal because so many more possessions ended in punts.

In a high-scoring era, you want to dink and dunk down the field (the Brady offense) and minimize turnovers.

Think about the difference between MLB baseball and slow-pitch softball. In MLB, you take more risks to score. In softball, avoiding outs is more important.
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Yea I was only bringing those guys up as an example you can't just look at numbers. Even within the history of MLB, strikeouts and caught stealing are obviously bad, but strikeouts are "less" bad whereas being caught stealing is "more" bad now compared to 70 years ago. Guys would sit out to avoid that 100th strikeout on the season but going 70/100 on steals was just the cost of doing business in an agressive running era.
 
boog204 said:
I'm assuming he's done. So 225 wins, 3.49 era, 6 all stars, cy young, 2 era titles, 6 gold gloves. I would think he'd be a guy who gets in on like the 6th or 7th ballot.
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Honestly the HoF voters are going to have a tough time with starters in the near future. If Greinke isn't in within the few few ballots, how many starters under 30 will actually make it? Below is a link of all active pitchers. The highest guy on the list is Sandy Alcantara who is 28 and has 20.3 career WAR. I don't want this to turn into a conversation about WAR vs traditional stats. I'm just using this as a reference point. Who under 30 as a starter would anyone feel reasonably confident on making it? Actually looking at this list makes me feel like guys like Sale/deGrom/Cole have much better chances at making it than I previously thought.

Active WAR leaders
 
Jbirdp5 said:
If you never saw a guy play then how are you able to have an opinion on him and compare him to another player unless your just using stats?
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You can't have an opinion on Babe Ruth. Sorry.
 
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uconngb said:
.258 batting average for career and what will end up being well north of 2,000 k’s, I don’t see how Stanton is even close
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I don’t think he’ll make it but not because of those numbers. Reggie Jackson hit .262 and struck out 2,597. Now he’s obviously a HoF but if Stanton was healthier during his prime or didn’t fall off as much as he did and could string together a few decent seasons he’d be right a good candidate despite the average and Ks.
 
Beowulf said:
love a "doesn't hustle" a year after stealing 70+ bases. horrendous attitude but teammates love him. out 2 of 4 years* (that first year he was on a 9 fwar/162 pace). Not a winner but they've literally never not won the division in his career. no "rumor" of his "career threatening" elbow injury listed anywhere. not on google, not on a twitter search, not on reddit, etc.

but yeah i'm probably not putting a 26 year old that high in my future HOF tier no matter what. No matter how wrong you are about everything else
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Watch a game before you comment on hustle. Never runs out grounders, never. Was benched several times for not hustling early in career. You won’t find the elbow issue online. That tidbit was learned from people i know that manage money for a multitude of professional athletes. His contact was always below market and that is the reason. Freddie freeman tried to mentor him and acuna would have no part of it. Since then he has regressed. Could bat 30 points higher if he ran out grounders. He is a cancer.
 
boog204 said:
I'm assuming he's done. So 225 wins, 3.49 era, 6 all stars, cy young, 2 era titles, 6 gold gloves. I would think he'd be a guy who gets in on like the 6th or 7th ballot.
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He’s really close to 3K Ks so he might not be done. Don’t forget 2 silver sluggers. His quirkiness is what will put him over the top.
 
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Fan1978 said:
Watch a game before you comment on hustle. Never runs out grounders, never. Was benched several times for not hustling early in career. You won’t find the elbow issue online. That tidbit was learned from people i know that manage money for a multitude of professional athletes. His contact was always below market and that is the reason. Freddie freeman tried to mentor him and acuna would have no part of it. Since then he has regressed. Could bat 30 points higher if he ran out grounders. He is a cancer.
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This is by far the dumbest post in the thread, which is a tough feat in a thread where someone claimed Mike Trout isn't a Hall of Famer
 
navery12 said:
This is by far the dumbest post in the thread, which is a tough feat in a thread where someone claimed Mike Trout isn't a Hall of Famer
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I watched 120 games last year and own over a million in team stock. Your post is the dumbest post of the year.
 
Fan1978 said:
Watch a game before you comment on hustle. Never runs out grounders, never. Was benched several times for not hustling early in career. You won’t find the elbow issue online. That tidbit was learned from people i know that manage money for a multitude of professional athletes. His contact was always below market and that is the reason. Freddie freeman tried to mentor him and acuna would have no part of it. Since then he has regressed. Could bat 30 points higher if he ran out grounders. He is a cancer.
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He literally just hit .337 last year and had a lower strikeout rate than freddie. His contract was a record when he signed it for his service time. He regressed…..he’s the reigning MVP coming off the first ever 40/70 season

What are you talking about hahaha just say you don’t like him bc he likes to celebrate
 
Beowulf said:
He literally just hit .337 last year and had a lower strikeout rate than freddie. His contract was a record when he signed it for his service time. He regressed…..he’s the reigning MVP coming off the first ever 40/70 season

What are you talking about hahaha just say you don’t like him bc he likes to celebrate
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Watch a game, he is the most talented but does not hustle. I live in Atlanta. Watch some tape instead of quoting stats. He would have hit .370 is he ran out grounders. Watch some tape
 
Fan1978 said:
Watch a game, he is the most talented but does not hustle. I live in Atlanta. Watch some tape instead of quoting stats. He would have hit .370 is he ran out grounders. Watch some tape
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You think he'd get another 21 hits by running a little harder on routine ground balls? That's asinine. There's a reason coaches don't want guys running out routine ground balls, there's zero upside
 
navery12 said:
You think he'd get another 21 hits by running a little harder on routine ground balls? That's asinine. There's a reason coaches don't want guys running out routine ground balls, there's zero upside
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100 percent wrong, puts pressure on defense and causes pressure and errors. How many games did you watch last year. Zero!

By the way, since he is a perceived leader nobody runs out grounders now. In freeman era everyone did. Watch a few games. They won championship without him. Does not even hustle in playoffs. I live in Atlanta, watch a few games. Stats tell only part of story.
 
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