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Insider,

What is your opinion on UConn joining Hockey East? Also can we ever hope to become a participant in the Beanpot Tournament?

How much value does ECU have?
 
ZooCougar said:
Insider,

What is your opinion on UConn joining Hockey East? Also can we ever hope to become a participant in the Beanpot Tournament?

How much value does ECU have?
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How would he know the answer to the former question?
 
Inside - Thanks for your insights.

But I think you are putting way too much value on thinking NDs series influenced the ACC's decision on who to invite. The ACC took two schools to invoke their renegotiation clause with ESPN and to strengthen ACC BB. They were conscious of giving the illusion to their football schools (FSU, Clemson, NC State) that the new schools also were members of the old boy football club - ie the glowing past tradition at Pitt and Cuse. Playing ND had very little to do with it. The ACC probably liked the idea of UConn BB but noone thinks that UConn football compares to Pitt/Cuse's tradition.

ACC bb has declined huge in just 4 years (save UNC/Duke). The ACC needed immediate action to address this and the thinking is Cuse and Pitt will help stop the fall. The FB element (who engineered the Miami/BCU/VT coup) had to eat a bit of crow and accept a BB infusion, but accepting two former national champion FB schools named Pitt/Cuse was the pill. Your belief that UConn would have gotten the nod if the ND series was signed is totally wrong.

Last thought, maybe UConn bb does not draw nationally but when I wear a UConn hat or T shirt every US resident in ANY state knows of UConn's BB tradition.

But thanks for the tv points of view - they are informative, but rethink your ND envy.
 
uconnric said:
I thought turning down the ND series was a dumb move, but I didn't realize how dumb it would turn out to be.
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What amazes me is that from what I remember, Business Lawyer and I were the only posters who were in favor of the ND series with our home games at NFL stadiums in the northeast instead of the Rent. Today none of the posters who jumped all over the two of us are thumping their chest in this thread.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
What amazes me is that from what I remember, Business Lawyer and I were the only posters who were in favor of the ND series with our home games at NFL stadiums in the northeast instead of the Rent. Today none of the posters who jumped all over the two of us are thumping their chest in this thread.
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There were quite a few more.
 
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He is dreaming sweet dreams of the 1945 New England Conference championship team coached by J.O. Christian. That team went 7-1 and undefeated (2-0) in conference play, you know.

Here is a picture of the 100th UConn football game Carl attended:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/UConnDowField.jpg/350px-UConnDowField.jpg

And here is the band coming to the field pregame, led by Mr. Spackler:
http://advance.uconn.edu/images/parade22.jpg

And this is a picture of Mr. Spackler discussing UConn's conference affiliation with an unknown athletics administrator:
http://advance.uconn.edu/images/dow04092703.jpg
 
MattMang23 said:
He is dreaming sweet dreams of the 1945 New England Conference championship team coached by J.O. Christian. That team went 7-1 and undefeated (2-0) in conference play, you know.

Here is a picture of the 100th UConn football game Carl attended:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/UConnDowField.jpg/350px-UConnDowField.jpg

And here is the band coming to the field pregame, led by Mr. Spackler:
http://advance.uconn.edu/images/parade22.jpg

And this is a picture of Mr. Spackler discussing UConn's conference affiliation with an unknown athletics administrator:
http://advance.uconn.edu/images/dow04092703.jpg
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Those are some sweet rides parked around the field.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
What amazes me is that from what I remember, Business Lawyer and I were the only posters who were in favor of the ND series with our home games at NFL stadiums in the northeast instead of the Rent. Today none of the posters who jumped all over the two of us are thumping their chest in this thread.
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You guys are like moths to a flame. A new poster who has some serious credibility issues claims to be an insider, and then tells us what a huge mistake UConn made by turning down the ND series and that the ND series, or lack of it, is what cost UConn an ACC bid. Does any of that make sense to you? Conferences are going to make affiliation decisions based on an OOC series with Notre Dame? Come on, I thought you guys were smarter than that.
 
The comment was not whether the new poster's assertion on the value of ND as a football opponent is or is not correct. it was on the number of posts regretting the decision to not sign the proposed ND contract when it we had the opportunity. My apologies to Upstater for not including him in my initial post (in retrospect I do remember him being open minded and reasonable in those discussions) but the truth is that there were very few on the old Boneyard who favored that series and and overwhelming majority voicing their objections (many at a near psychotic level) to the idea that ND had earned more national recognition in college football and warranted an advantageous position over us in negotiating that deal.

As far as the new poster's claim; I don't know if I agree with the logic but there have been many decisions made in the television industry based on flawed logic. I will state without question however that if he is faking his knowledge of the subject matter and his profession he is doing a far better job of it than you had in your many claims over the years.
 
I believe the argument that a relationship with Notre Dame could (emphasis on the could) make a team more attractive to the ACC is two-fold:

1) that would give the ACC TV deal control over the road games in that series, a guaranteed money/prime time game for the league.

2) the existing relationship with Notre Dame may make it easier to lure the Irish for all sports down the road (a tenuous argument, but semi-plausible).

I was never strongly for or against the argument, but I did say (and feel) that depending on the specifics even a NFL-site game could have made sense from a financial and exposure perspective.

Ultimately this whole thing has gone down a road, that I don't think any UConn fan is happy with. Frankly, if the team has to be in a league that might as well be called C-USA+ (I think it's available better register the trademark) I'd've preferred that the football schools had split and formed their own conference where the membership decisions were not beholdent to the non-1A institutions. Of course, I've felt that way since the first ACC raid.

Best thing we, as fans, can do is to continue to support the team the best we can and let things sort themselves out.
 
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I was okay w/ the original ND deal of 10 games, but I don't believe for a second that is the reason UConn isn't in the ACC today as opposed to SU.
 
going back to when the deal was being considered I heard that Notre Dame didn't want to come to the Rent and Uconn was willing to play at Gillette and the meadowlands but the deal breaker for Uconn was Notre Dame wanted to be the home team at those sites too, putting them in control of TV rights I guess. Given that the ACC wouldnt have any TV rights that included Notre Dame by adding us, why would playing Notre Dame make a difference in the conference realignment?
 
FfldCntyFan said:
What amazes me is that from what I remember, Business Lawyer and I were the only posters who were in favor of the ND series with our home games at NFL stadiums in the northeast instead of the Rent. Today none of the posters who jumped all over the two of us are thumping their chest in this thread.
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As a Boston-area husky fan, I had no issues with playing games in Foxboro and I said as much. 15 miles versus 100 miles would be a welcome change for me. What we didn't know then and (as far as I can recollect) we still don't know is what was the ticket and revenue distribution for those games, and were they going to be neutral site games or home games. If they were home games where we controlled revenue, I was all for it. If they were neutral site games with split revenue plus Kraft gets his cut on top of that, then it becomes a tougher sell.

And why can't UConn still negotiate a football contract with ND?
 
husky10 said:
going back to when the deal was being considered I heard that Notre Dame didn't want to come to the Rent and Uconn was willing to play at Gillette and the meadowlands but the deal breaker for Uconn was Notre Dame wanted to be the home team at those sites too, putting them in control of TV rights I guess. Given that the ACC wouldnt have any TV rights that included Notre Dame by adding us, why would playing Notre Dame make a difference in the conference realignment?
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You almost have it right. For the games in either Foxboro or West Rutherford, ND wanted control of 50% of the tickets & the ability to sell their own souveniers. This would render this a neutral site game. UConn wanted control of the gate as a true home game.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
You guys are like moths to a flame. A new poster who has some serious credibility issues claims to be an insider, and then tells us what a huge mistake UConn made by turning down the ND series and that the ND series, or lack of it, is what cost UConn an ACC bid. Does any of that make sense to you? Conferences are going to make affiliation decisions based on an OOC series with Notre Dame? Come on, I thought you guys were smarter than that.
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Dig in your heals Nelly. I'm surprised it DOESN'T make sense to you. The ACC is absolutely recruiting Notre Dame. If you were trying to get a team to leave it's comfort zone, the best recruiting tools are $$$ and friendships. It's the reason the Big XII tried to secure Pitt before the ACC did. Had the OU President not screwed up the deal & the SEC start nosing around TCU (when they were still a BE commit), Pitt would probably be heading to the Big XII with WVU. But, that's neither here nor there.

Listen, Syracuse's TV numbers are virtually identical to UConn's. They both draw almost identically in NYC. Academics are identical......enrollment is identical. Fan support is comparable across the big 2 sports. They're comparable ON the basketball court. And, UConn actually has a moderate edge on the football field the last decade. The ACC has done feasibility studies on both schools. They were neck & neck. So then, why are is Syracuse in the ACC and UConn isn't? Relationships.

I'm not sure what has and hasn't been discussed on this board, but Notre Dame has been adamant about strengthening their profile in NYC. That's why they've hit up everybody in the region with a pulse to play games in the NYC market. Had UConn scheduled a 10-game contract w/ ND, they'd have been in the ACC. My firm worked with ESPN on the ACC expansion. ESPN directed the ACC on whom to target, based on a joint desire to reel in Notre Dame (that info has been made public). If the Domers go to the Big Ten, then ESPN loses the opportunity to control a huge chunk ND's athletic events. If they go to the ACC, ESPN owns the Tier 1, 2, and 3 TV contracts for the entire conference. They'd own ND top to bottom. So, the decision to take Syracuse absolutely was strategic. They're building a resume for ND; nothing more, nothing less. They currently have two of ND's annual rivals in the fold (Pitt & BC), an old rival (GA Tech), an old rival who just signed a contract to renew the rivalry (Miami), and a new TV partner (Syracuse), whom they're currently negotiating with for an extended series.
 
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I'm with Nelson. The BCU AD already inserted foot and mouth and admitted that the invites were set to go out to SU, and UConn, but BCU lobbied to keep UConn out and to invite Pitt instead, to remain the lone New England ACC member. No one can dispute this, Defilipo came out and apologized for "misspeaking" for crying out loud. That holds more weight in my eyes than some random poster speculating that it was some missed opportunity at scheduling a series with ND, since to date, ND hasn't signed with the ACC.

This guy had some interesting stuff, but since no one on the board knows this stuff to any great degree, he could be feeding us all a line of BS, and we wouldn't know any better.

My question to FROMTHEINSIDE, would be if the Big 12, numbers stand to go up by such significant amounts with Clemson, and FSU, why hasn't that moved happened already? Would Clemson or FSU EVER stand to make as much money in the ACC? What exactly is the hold up?
 
Carl Spackler said:
,

That's what the backbone of Catholic schools, and their basketball conference, has been able to do with "mid-major" football programs that were formerly long term independant 1-A programs. .
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The Catholic thing is a nuisance. The ND and Catholic Schools haters are incessant and blinded by their 'parochial' obsession. This extends to the legislature and the state.

They are loud and obnoxious enough you'd have to have a public meeting where Disney CEO Bob Iger held out an ACC contract (and a 10-game ND series) in one hand and an NBE contract in the other hand and when Iger said "choose" you'd duck your head knowing we'd still be in the NBE when done

I agree with every said. Insider or not I could have written the same thing.

The only thing I've seen (and not discussed) is the boosters letter that was sent floating around by the FSU President extolling the virtues of the ACC as a great, loyal partner and discussing the benefits of the research dollars and academic opportunities of the ACC and stability of some of these relationships. The other coaches didn't want a move to either the SEC or B12 and academia didn't. In other words the deal and the lock up better be darn good if they are burning bridges.

Then there are those thinking further consolidatuon is coming in football next decade. Still too many weak TV partners in the 5 majors.
 
FromTheInside said:
Dig in your heals Nelly. I'm surprised it DOESN'T make sense to you. The ACC is absolutely recruiting Notre Dame. If you were trying to get a team to leave it's comfort zone, the best recruiting tools are $$$ and friendships. It's the reason the Big XII tried to secure Pitt before the ACC did. Had the OU President not screwed up the deal & the SEC start nosing around TCU (when they were still a BE commit), Pitt would probably be heading to the Big XII with WVU. But, that's neither here nor there.

Listen, Syracuse's TV numbers are virtually identical to UConn's. They both draw almost identically in NYC. Academics are identical......enrollment is identical. Fan support is comparable across the big 2 sports. They're comparable ON the basketball court. And, UConn actually has a moderate edge on the football field the last decade. The ACC has done feasibility studies on both schools. They were neck & neck. So then, why are is Syracuse in the ACC and UConn isn't? Relationships.

I'm not sure what has and hasn't been discussed on this board, but Notre Dame has been adamant about strengthening their profile in NYC. That's why they've hit up everybody in the region with a pulse to play games in the NYC market. Had UConn scheduled a 10-game contract w/ ND, they'd have been in the ACC. My firm worked with ESPN on the ACC expansion. ESPN directed the ACC on whom to target, based on a joint desire to reel in Notre Dame (that info has been made public). If the Domers go to the Big Ten, then ESPN loses the opportunity to control a huge chunk ND's athletic events. If they go to the ACC, ESPN owns the Tier 1, 2, and 3 TV contracts for the entire conference. They'd own ND top to bottom. So, the decision to take Syracuse absolutely was strategic. They're building a resume for ND; nothing more, nothing less. They currently have two of ND's annual rivals in the fold (Pitt & BC), an old rival (GA Tech), an old rival who just signed a contract to renew the rivalry (Miami), and a new TV partner (Syracuse), whom they're currently negotiating with for an extended series.
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FWIW, the total enrollment at uconn is slightly more than 30,000, ~33% greater than cuse.
 
MattMang23 said:
Any time I see his name at the top of the post I just keep scrolling until I've passed the post. I can't be bothered to read the whole thing just to find the one compelling sentence hidden somewhere within. It's to the point where the lengths of these missives are just ludicrous.
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glad to see I'm not the only one
 
Let me say this very clearly.

Notre Dame is NEVER going to give up their football independance willingly. Got it? They will NEVER turn over the right to keep 100% of their football revenue from gate receipts and broadcasting. Got it? Notre Dame is highy invested in the survival of the Big East conference, as a full division 1-A conference, because it's the best way for the to easily maintain football independance. Notre Dame, has infinitely more in common with the Big East schools, than any other schools in the country. Notre Dame, will NEVER turn over all tiers of their media rights to a single broadcasting company.

The only way, ONLY way, that Notre Dame ever goes to a conference, is if finally after 130+ years, when this BCS cycle is up, the conferences - all of them in 1-A, line up a playoff system that involves all 11 conference winners to determine a championship. You're talking a 16 team playoff in 4 weeks. It can be done.

In that case, Notre Dame would be forced to join a conference, or never be able to win a national title. And the Big East....... well they're already here for everything else....and if all these teams are so bad anyway.....it sure would be an easy way to the playoff right?

Some people make snarky remarks about how I bring up history and recap it. I promise you that when the Big East goes to the negotiations in September, and our leadership, is not fully aware of everythign that's happened in both college football and professional footbal broadcasting, since Fordham v. Waynesburg at the Polo Grounds was broadcast from the tower at the top of the Empire State building in 1939, AND we are not at that table with Notre Dame sitting right beside us, what this conference needs in a media deal, will not happen. If we go to that table, and go in there, like we did with football in the past, the conference will fall apart by 2014.

We need to be at that table, and understand fully what important time slots for games are all about, and how a 3:30pm EST game, that has post season implications for a PST zone team, is most definitely going to draw new viewers on the west coast, tuning in at 12:30PST local for them, in anticipation of their own 3:30 game.

The events of the past 6 months around the Big East, are earth shattering shocking. I've followed thsi conference since day 1. Things most definitely have changed.

The last piece of the puzzle, for the Big East, is to sit down at the negotiation table, with a complete understanding of football broadcasting, and with Notre Dame, and their independance - on the our side.

Just under six months now until the Big East, football and basketball, is up for sale.

and once more for the record, Notre Dame is not going to the ACC.
 
ZooCougar said:
Insider,

What is your opinion on UConn joining Hockey East? Also can we ever hope to become a participant in the Beanpot Tournament?
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I'll take this one. Hockey East is very openly looking for team #12 after taking ND. It would make sense for them to take UConn since they have every other flagship state university in New England that plays hockey. The problem is, UConn does not have the facilities to join right now, specifically since HE has a 5,000 seat requirement for all new members that was instituted after UVM joined in 2005. I doubt HE would like the idea of playing at XL since the facility would be wayyyy too big and there is no precedent in college hockey for having your home rink be that far from campus, there isn't one D1 school that does it. The other candidates would seem to be Holy Cross, RPI, and QU, but they all don't have the funds or brand name that UConn has, or the general fanbase for the program. RPI does have a good history, and has relationships with a few current HE programs when they were a part of the ECAC way back when. BU plays RPI virtually every season as an example. The problem with them is they are a relatively small school, haven't been too good of late, and certainly wouldn't be the TV draw for NESN/NBC Sports Network that UConn could be. If UConn commits money to the program now, puts in a plan for a new facility, hires a new coach, increases recruiting budgets and scholarships, I think they have a leg up on the competition. Most in the know HE people expect a decision to be made within a calendar year since ND isn't joining until '13-'14.

As for the Beanpot, UConn has a better chance of joining the NFL. No way, no how will anyone but the current four schools be a part of it. And trust me, everyone else wants Harvard thrown out since they don't bring any fans and their team blows. But it ain't changing, that's just how it is.
 
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Carl Spackler said:
Let me say this very clearly.

Notre Dame is NEVER going to give up their football independance willingly. Got it? They will NEVER turn over the right to keep 100% of their football revenue from gate receipts and broadcasting. Got it? Notre Dame is highy invested in the survival of the Big East conference, as a full division 1-A conference, because it's the best way for the to easily maintain football independance. Notre Dame, has infinitely more in common with the Big East schools, than any other schools in the country. Notre Dame, will NEVER turn over all tiers of their media rights to a single broadcasting company.
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You know this, right? Are you connected to them in some way? A close friend of mine is actually connected to ND, as multiple family members played football for them and some went on to the NFL. According to him and his connections, it is not at all a foregone conclusion that ND will remain independent until they are forced out. And he says the ACC is an acceptable option to them, more so than the B1G, and more so than the Big 12. Just one person's connections, so take it as you will, but he's actually connected to ND, unlike (I would guess) you are. And joining a conference doesn't mean you give up your income from home game ticket sales. Where did you get that idea?
 
Mike Tranghese made it possible for Notre Dame to maintain their independance a long time ago, with a great deal of stability, and with a core of colleges that all are of the same values.

I look forward, to seeing the favor returned.
 
brasssbonanzaa said:
You know this, right? Are you connected to them in some way? A close friend of mine is actually connected to ND, as multiple family members played football for them and some went on to the NFL. According to him and his connections, it is not at all a foregone conclusion that ND will remain independent until they are forced out. And he says the ACC is an acceptable option to them, more so than the B1G, and more so than the Big 12. Just one person's connections, so take it as you will, but he's actually connected to ND, unlike (I would guess) you are. And joining a conference doesn't mean you give up your income from home game ticket sales. Where did you get that idea?
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I'm a poster on internet board. That's all I am. A voice in the wind.
 
Carl Spackler said:
Let me say this very clearly.

Notre Dame is NEVER going to give up their football independance willingly. Got it? They will NEVER turn over the right to keep 100% of their football revenue from gate receipts and broadcasting. Got it? Notre Dame is highy invested in the survival of the Big East conference, as a full division 1-A conference, because it's the best way for the to easily maintain football independance. Notre Dame, has infinitely more in common with the Big East schools, than any other schools in the country. Notre Dame, will NEVER turn over all tiers of their media rights to a single broadcasting company.
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I know Carl has taken some flack about the size of his posts (and rightfully so, I might add), but this paragraph is "spot on". The evidence to defend this in my eyes is the fact that Notre Dame has had multiple chances to join the Big10 (or any other of the big conferences for that matter) and has not done so. The money is certainly there, as they would have greatly increased their tv revenue (the Big 10 payout is much larger than the NBC contract for ND). But they didn't join, and they still continue to stay independent. Carl hit the nail on the head, in my opinion...
 
Oh, by the way, if anyone thinks that I am a Notre Dame apologista, look at my avatar. One of the happiest moments of my UConn football rooting career...
 
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