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It's not that big of a feather in their cap. For starters, in every market, there are more favorable match ups they'll be going up against. Sure, it's nice that there are fewer scheduling conflicts for the Big East. But, any network that would bid on the Big East already has better conferences, with better match ups, locked up. In the EST, they battle the SEC, Big Ten, and ACC. In the CST, they battle the Big XII, SEC, and Big Ten. In the PST, they battle the Pac-12.

Beyond that, b/c the BE is so spread out now, they miss out on one of the most important components of any TV contract (w/ regards to college sports)...........regional dominance. In the SEC, Big Ten, and Big XII, fans watch the other teams in their conference. Georgia fans watch Florida games, Michigan fans watch tOSU, Texas fans watch OU games, and on and on. There is a collective interest in the conference b/c of shared commonality AND regional rivalry. One of the reasons the SEC got such a landmark deal years ago is b/c almost every team in the conference (save for Vandy, Kentucky, Ole Miss, and Miss State) turn on TVs in states other than their home state & their opponent's home state. The Big XII and Big Ten also have a lot of that (though not as strongly). The Big East may have teams in markets across all 4 time zones, but does anybody in Philadelphia care one iota about San Diego State or Memphis or Central Florida (and vice versa)? Nope. It was a mistake for the BE to spread out. A conference's TV revenue generating power is partly in their national appeal, and partly in their regional dominance.

Unfortunately, the Big East doesn't have a single football school that generates virtually any TV draw outside their home state or their opponent's home state other than Boise State. And, Boise State's draw is based more on novelty than genuine fandom. As soon as they have an off season, their additional viewership is gone. So, "spanning the country" has almost no value to a TV contract unless the teams involved generate interest outside their region.

Do you have numbers to back up what you're talking about? Just curious.

I completely agree with what your saying BTW about fans watching other games than their own team. It's not going to be normal for UConn football fan to tune into a San Diego State vs. Houston game.

At first. I think it will probably catch on quicker than you might think though, as long as it's marketed and broadcasted well.

I think that if there would be a poll here among UConn football fans you'd find that the majority of them had zero interest in watching say, a Rutgers vs. Louisville football game 5 years ago. Or espcially a South Florida v. Cincinatti game. I'd bet you'd find a lot of UConn fans around here, and out there, that have tuned into those games on a college football saturday or evening and watched as well as many say Louisivlle football fans, who have never turned into a UConn game prior to 2006, have watched say a UConn v. Rutgers game.

What you're talkign about takes time there, and I don't think is that big of a deal.

I also understand the big east is going to be going head to head with marquee matchups in other time zones. But that's no different than those current programs across the zones are already doing. A San Diego State or SMU football game scheduled at the same time as a USC or Texas game is going to draw less, irrespective of conference affiliation.

But there's the flexibility I'm talking about. If San Diego State is scheduled to play a home game, or Boise has a home game.....that west coast start time can be put anywhere between 12-6pm PST, so as not to conflict with the USC or UCLA or Arizona or Oregon games being played that day......and still be in Prime Time on the east coast and not affect the Big East matchups being broadcast on the east coast earlier in the day...

and I guarantee you that if Boise is playing a home game in November, at 3:30pm PST, and there's a UConn v. Temple game being played at 3:30pm EST that has implications on the post season......people on the west coast are watching that UConn v. Temple game at 12:30 local time for them. Just an example......

Conversely, a primetime 3:30pm EST or 8:00 EST game on the east coast, can be broadcast on the west coast.

So I disagree that it's a minor thing, and I think it provides the Big EAst with flexibility in scheduling kickoff times that can't be matched by any other conference out there when it comes to avoiding exactly what you're talking about - conflicts in head to head competition for viewership.

The NFL has capitalized on being able to schedule football games and avoid the kind of thing you're talking about through all four time zones for many years.

The key will be in being able to follow the NFL model, and be able to work with the broadcasting companies to decide what game would be a national broadcast, while the other games are carried regionally. I don't know if Taglibue is still involved with the Big East, but he would be very helpful in negotiations when it comes to that.

I posted an article around here somewhere about the cartel behavior of college football broadcasting over the years. That model of creating false demand by restricting access, needs to be broken. Take a look at it.
 
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Memphis and Louisville in their time zone.....

Their kickoff times can be scheduled around say a Tennessee game, either forward or back and still be able to reach somewhere in the country in primetime.....

What it all really means negatively for the Big East is that home fans, like me, that actually go to the games rather than watch on TV, would have to really get used to not knowing when football games are going to kick, up to a few days prior to game day, and that would probably extend to the entire season, rather than just to what we already experience with conference game kickoff times being held until the week before game day.
 
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The other model - the one that I hope shows up - that the ACC....oops...that ESPN really wants....... involves scheduling around Notre Dame.

Notre Dame

Notre Dame schedule's their kickoff times whenever they want. The Big East, for all the reasons you state, will need to be in constant motion around scheduling for football to get the best time slots and viewership reaches.

But if you can put Notre Dame into the scheduling mix? Now you've got your scheduling focal point. Much like the Dallas Cowboys in the NFL, and a handful of other franchises regularly get the national timeslot, and the rest of the league games are sent out regionally and scheduled around them...

the big east, if a deal could somehow be reached that involves Notre Dame scheduling, could do the exact same thing. Just like on NFL game day, you see the next week's broadcasts listed and advertised, with the national games, and then regional ones listed....

The big east could be doing the same thing. Notre Dame is going to get the national broadcast, two other big east games (four other big east teams, can potentially have national broadcasts on any saturday and then the remaining games would go out regionally coast to coast. With 14 teams in the league, that means that every single program would get several....SEVERAL....national broadcasts each season.

You think the ACC....oops, excuse....me ESPN.....doesn't want that? Or any other conference?

Notre Dame has been an albatross to the Big East conference, even though the conference has provided them the exact kind of shelter they need for their athletic department. It's long overdue, that the conference and Notre Dame starts to do what's right.

Notre Dame is now the lead player in Big East expansion decisions - I believe ND has sat at the head of the expansion committee all along.

I hope I've got my finger on the pulse of all of this, and if not, God willing, somehow somebody in Providence will get this thought process going.
 
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I agree, I think the Big 12 is fine. I believe the Big 10 will look to add a southern school or two because of demographic and population trends. I think FSU and Clemson will receive offers they can't refuse from someone outside the ACC at some point.

I've never understood this whole idea about demographic trends.

Schools are not increasing admission spots, but the demographic #s are increasing nationwide
 

Fishy

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Florida State & Clemson are far more realistic than you realize. I'm a valuations analyst....

I am not a valuations analyst and will take you at your word that you are...and will therefore defer to your experience.

Thanks for the knowledge.
 

CTMike

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And boom goes Carl's "4 timezones to dominance" theory.

FTI (If I may call you that... haha)... any insights in to ND's TV deal, and whether or not they stand to make or lose more money by (for example) joining the ACC? To me, perfect world, ND and UConn go to ACC and lock up the whole East Coast.
 
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Notre Dame is now the lead player in Big East expansion decisions - I believe ND has sat at the head of the expansion committee all along.
.

Notre Dame is driving the ship and NBC is the navigator. Hopefully not the same crew that crashed and abandoned the ship in Italy.
 
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And boom goes Carl's "4 timezones to dominance" theory.

FTI (If I may call you that... haha)... any insights in to ND's TV deal, and whether or not they stand to make or lose more money by (for example) joining the ACC? To me, perfect world, ND and UConn go to ACC and lock up the whole East Coast.
Well, there's no question ND would receive a significant increase in TV revenue if they went to the ACC. The issue with the Domers is they value their independence over money. However, as college athletics evolves, and assuming their program doesn't take giant steps forward in the next 2-3 seasons (as in multiple top 15 finishes), their next contract with NBC will lock them into an annual payout that will put them at a competitive disadvantage with respect to the rest of the major players in BCS conferences. They can't expect donors to annually cover a $10M - $15M shortfall compared to the Big Ten, SEC, Pac-12, and Big XII. It's the tortoise & the hare argument. It doesn't matter that ND is the fast rabbit. If they get locked into a TV contract that puts them too far behind, the tortoises of college football will pass them.

Here's the issue with the ACC though...............the ACC's contract w/ ESPN is for all TV rights: Tier 1, 2, 3. If ND joins, they have to cede control of all of their TV rights to the ACC. So, there is no opportunity to have a national ND Network, which they've been looking into. Other than that, the ACC has all of the pieces. They stretch nearly 2,000 miles across the eastern seaboard. They have a number of current and former Domer rivals: Pitt, GA Tech, Miami, Boston College. And, they are one of, if not the most prestigious conference academically in D1. But, the ACC isn't going to go back on their Tier 3 stance. They already turned down Texas for that very reason.

If ND joins a conference in full, the ACC is the leader in the club house...............and by a lot. The dark horse would be the Big XII, simply b/c Swarbrick & Dodds (the ADs) have a very strong relationship, and in terms of national drawing power, they are #1 (Texas) and #2 (Notre Dame). The Big XII is attractive for that reason and their willingness to allow Tier 3 TV rights ownership by their members (the SEC is the only other that allows it as well). But, the Big XII will never be a serious contender to land ND as a full member unless they land 3-4 east coast members.

The Big Ten is a complete non-starter. Domers hate the Big Ten........with a passion. H-A-T-E!!! Fans get caught up on the fact that ND plays 3 Big Ten teams annually. But, they're marriages of convenience. Nearly everyone of their fans would love to see Purdue disappear from their schedule forever. And, despite perceptions to the contrary, just barely over half actually care about playing Michigan State or Michigan annually. At an administration (and booster) level, no one's forgotten that the Big Ten rejected ND's attempt to join multiple times due to their Catholic roots. So, in the eyes of the people that matter, the Big Ten would be a last resort.

I have zero doubt that w/in 10 years, you'll see ND in a conference. Money, competitive balance, scheduling difficulties (w/ everyone going to 9 conference games per year), recruiting, and competing for NCs are all going to push them that direction. And, since you're probably curious, ND & UConn in the ACC would probably bring in $21M - $26M per year per team (based on today's TV payout market). The one thing that hurts the ACC is their teams don't draw well outside their respective regions. The only exceptions are Florida State, Miami, Clemson, and VA Tech. FSU & Miami are national draws, and Clemson & VA Tech are regional draws (meaning, fans of other teams regularly watch their games). Clemson also has a strong following in the eastern part of the SEC.
 

UConnDan97

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But, the ACC isn't going to go back on their Tier 3 stance. They already turned down Texas for that very reason.

Is this for real? I missed any ACC-Texas talk in the media. Do you have a link?
 

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For real. They flirted in the fall
 

UConnDan97

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Any link from anyone on that? Or is this one of those Ferris Beuller Twitter moments where it is "my cousin's sister's brother's nephew's boyfriend's...."?
 
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Is this for real? I missed any ACC-Texas talk in the media. Do you have a link?
Are you serious? 99% of what goes on in college football happens behind closed doors and never sees the light of day. I could talk for a week straight about all of the things that have never seen the light of day in the press; conversations, arrests, under-the-table deals, etc. How do I know what went on? B/c I worked on the valuation for ESPN. Anytime ESPN or CBS are going to make a contract offer to a conference, league, sport, etc......my team is hired to do the valuation. Intermittently I'll work with NBC, and I've never worked with Fox.

When "Texas to the Pac-10" rumors started swirling in 2010, it's b/c Texas was seriously at the precipice of jumping to the Pac-10. When "Texas to the Pac-12" rumors ramped up again in 2011, it was ESPN trying to drum up pressure to get the ACC to accept Texas and the LHN. But, if you really must see a "link" to believe it..............

On talks with the Atlantic Coast Conference (after the Texas committed to staying in the Big XII): “We had good conversations with [commissioner] John Swofford. We were very interested in that if things imploded. They were very interested in us. But it’s not going to happen.” ~ Deloss Dodds 9/22/11
 

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Taking everything at face value, is there any difference in valuation of a ND-UConn package to the ACC as opposed to ND-Rutgers? I would hope so, but at this point we are watching half-ass athletic programs like Pitt chosen ahead of us.
 
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How did you miss Texas to the ACC? That was all over the place. The common thought was Texas was using them as a pawn to get the Pac 12 to move, knowing full well the ACC would never allow the LHN, and I believe the Pac 12 didn't have Tier 1-3 rights signed away at that point.
 
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You sound like you know what you are talking about, but could you please explain to me how it is exactly that adding a portion of the Florida market and the relatively inconsequential South Carolina market is going to somehow increase revenueby 20 million per team?

I really like your gazelle analogy by the way.

Presently, the Big XII's Fox Sports contract is undervalued. If they add any teams, they can open up that contract as well. Now, take all of that and imagine adding the Florida and South Carolina markets to their contracts. I can tell you, based on both team's valuation, it will put the conference in the $28M - $34.5M per team per year range. So, tell me again how crazy the FSU and Clemson Presidents would be to listen to the Big XII.......

quote]
 
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My concern is that we may have missed our window. Five to seven years from now will Temple, Houston,USF or other NBE teams be more attractive pick ups?
 

huskypantz

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You sound like you know what you are talking about, but could you please explain to me how it is exactly that adding a portion of the Florida market and the relatively inconsequential South Carolina market is going to somehow increase revenueby 20 million per team?
You beat me to it, Wisky. I am struggling with this one as well. SC has 4.6 million residents and Clemson has SCe to compete with, so you're likely talking less than half of the collegesports-watching public. Connecticut has 3.6 million residents and UConn is the only game in town. Maybe I am missing something, but who exactly cares about Clemson outside of SC? I can see FSU, Miami and even VT as teams with some national football interest. No doubt they love their football and fill 80k seats, but if they have a measurable impact on a contract, why wouldn't UConn?
 
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You beat me to it, Wisky. I am struggling with this one as well. SC has 4.6 million residents and Clemson has SCe to compete with, so you're likely talking less than half of the collegesports-watching public. Connecticut has 3.6 million residents and UConn is the only game in town. Maybe I am missing something, but who exactly cares about Clemson outside of SC? I can see FSU, Miami and even VT as teams with some national football interest. No doubt they love their football and fill 80k seats, but if they have a measurable impact on a contract, why wouldn't UConn?

This doesn't compute to me simply because Clemson and FSU would theoritically add nearly TWICE as much value per team as each Big 12 school is already getting.

Perhaps it was written weirdly. Of course, if this is what he really means, then we would really love to hear why.
 

huskypantz

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Beyond that, b/c the BE is so spread out now, they miss out on one of the most important components of any TV contract (w/ regards to college sports)...........regional dominance. In the SEC, Big Ten, and Big XII, fans watch the other teams in their conference. Georgia fans watch Florida games, Michigan fans watch tOSU, Texas fans watch OU games, and on and on. There is a collective interest in the conference b/c of shared commonality AND regional rivalry. One of the reasons the SEC got such a landmark deal years ago is b/c almost every team in the conference (save for Vandy, Kentucky, Ole Miss, and Miss State) turn on TVs in states other than their home state & their opponent's home state. The Big XII and Big Ten also have a lot of that (though not as strongly).
This makes me wonder about the future of the ACC and regional dominance. What would the addition of UConn and Rutgers to the ACC do in regards to control of the TV market in New England/New York/New Jersey? Is there enough value for the B1G to scoop some northeast teams up and make a play for the market?

Thanks for the posts, interesting stuff.
 

CTMike

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Is the ACC off their rocker for controlling Tier 3 rights, or is there benefit to the schools for this? I could see it making sense if you are talking putting an ACC Network in every cable system up and down the east coast.
 
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Well, there's no question ND would receive a significant increase in TV revenue if they went to the ACC. The issue with the Domers is they value their independence over money. However, as college athletics evolves, and assuming their program doesn't take giant steps forward in the next 2-3 seasons (as in multiple top 15 finishes), their next contract with NBC will lock them into an annual payout that will put them at a competitive disadvantage with respect to the rest of the major players in BCS conferences. They can't expect donors to annually cover a $10M - $15M shortfall compared to the Big Ten, SEC, Pac-12, and Big XII. It's the tortoise & the hare argument. It doesn't matter that ND is the fast rabbit. If they get locked into a TV contract that puts them too far behind, the tortoises of college football will pass them.

Here's the issue with the ACC though...............the ACC's contract w/ ESPN is for all TV rights: Tier 1, 2, 3. If ND joins, they have to cede control of all of their TV rights to the ACC. So, there is no opportunity to have a national ND Network, which they've been looking into. Other than that, the ACC has all of the pieces. They stretch nearly 2,000 miles across the eastern seaboard. They have a number of current and former Domer rivals: Pitt, GA Tech, Miami, Boston College. And, they are one of, if not the most prestigious conference academically in D1. But, the ACC isn't going to go back on their Tier 3 stance. They already turned down Texas for that very reason.

If ND joins a conference in full, the ACC is the leader in the club house...............and by a lot. The dark horse would be the Big XII, simply b/c Swarbrick & Dodds (the ADs) have a very strong relationship, and in terms of national drawing power, they are #1 (Texas) and #2 (Notre Dame). The Big XII is attractive for that reason and their willingness to allow Tier 3 TV rights ownership by their members (the SEC is the only other that allows it as well). But, the Big XII will never be a serious contender to land ND as a full member unless they land 3-4 east coast members.

The Big Ten is a complete non-starter. Domers hate the Big Ten........with a passion. H-A-T-E!!! Fans get caught up on the fact that ND plays 3 Big Ten teams annually. But, they're marriages of convenience. Nearly everyone of their fans would love to see Purdue disappear from their schedule forever. And, despite perceptions to the contrary, just barely over half actually care about playing Michigan State or Michigan annually. At an administration (and booster) level, no one's forgotten that the Big Ten rejected ND's attempt to join multiple times due to their Catholic roots. So, in the eyes of the people that matter, the Big Ten would be a last resort.

I have zero doubt that w/in 10 years, you'll see ND in a conference. Money, competitive balance, scheduling difficulties (w/ everyone going to 9 conference games per year), recruiting, and competing for NCs are all going to push them that direction. And, since you're probably curious, ND & UConn in the ACC would probably bring in $21M - $26M per year per team (based on today's TV payout market). The one thing that hurts the ACC is their teams don't draw well outside their respective regions. The only exceptions are Florida State, Miami, Clemson, and VA Tech. FSU & Miami are national draws, and Clemson & VA Tech are regional draws (meaning, fans of other teams regularly watch their games). Clemson also has a strong following in the eastern part of the SEC.

I would love to see some kind of references behind what you're saying, as to viewership, media payouts, etc... because it's interesting, and I'd like to see the actual numbers, well because I don't trust you. Nothing personal.

As for the rest of it, I'm not agreeing with most of it. Not at all. The leadership at Notre Dame, has much, much, much, much more in common with leadership of the traditional basketball power schools in the Big East that have provided the backbone for the league to become a springboard for so many other football programs in division 1-A, than they have in common with the leadership in the ACC. It's called the Catholic priesthood. That same priesthood that has mishandled all other football playing 1-A college in the Big East footprint - not named Notre Dame for far too long, and have finally realized that if they continue, their basketball baby dies as an adult.

I believe, that it's finally come to the point, that all those men of the cloth, that value their institutions so highly, have sat down and realized that they really need to make this thing work in the future, otherwise that group of catholic basketball colleges, is going to fall behind.

Notre Dame is going nowhere but remaining independant in football, until there is a national playoff system for a national championship in college football that is a true system based on competition and involves all, and only, all conference 1-A champions. They are intimately involved in the survival of the Big East conference, because the Big East, is there only ticket to remaining independant in football, and they'll reamin independant as long as that playoff system doesn't exist, and when it does - they're much more likely to join the Big East than any other conference.

I can't prove what I will write now, but I believe that the ACC, working with knowledge about how their ESPN broadcasting contracts would be changed, has had the intention of breaking the Big East conference down for many years now, such that Notre Dame reaches a point where they cannot house their basketball and olympics sports in the Big East. I trully believe, that had Syracuse and UConn gone to the ACC in Sep 2011. The league would have split by now, and Notre Dame would be actively searchign for a home for all their sports, and running into walls with anyone that offered them competition but was willing to leave them independant in football. It would have been complete chaos in the landscape beyond anythign that we've seen in the past several months. It didn't happen, and ACC/ESPN people have Boston College leadership to thank for it. BC is really going to feel the love from Tobacco Road and further south now. Anyway....

What's finally become clear to all those other Catholic schools that have been the backbone, is that they need to build a powerful football conference, to maintain the basketball league, rather than do just enough to keep a football conference. You may not believe me, but 15 years, ago, the commissioner of the SEC, was very, very concerned about the Big East conference, because he knew that if the leadership got their priorities in order, the Big East could become by far the most powerful athletic conference in the country. Notre Dame, football and basketball, and ownership of the most powerful media forces in the country. That same commissioner scrambled to be instrumental in the creation of the BCS system to determine a national champion out of the infant bowl coalition contract system with the 6 major conferences at the time.

So - thanks for interest in UConn athletics. We will continue to recruit, compete at the highest levels, and work like hell to win games against whomever we are lining up against. As long as we remain tied to Notre Dame through athletics however convoluted it may be until there is a true national championship playoff system, and as long as we maintain relationship with the athletic conference that has ownership of our broadcasting reach in the NYC to Boston corridor, we are going to be just fine.

What that means, is the Big East. And I think that ability to broadcast football games over 4 time zones is a big deal. We actually won't be the only conference that's able to do it. It's all going to be about following the NFL model of national broadcasts with marquee matchups and regionalizing the other ones so that there is minimal overlap, and marketing the hell out of it.
 
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I think Carl is a bit upset that you poked holes in his ridiculous claim that the NNBE would benefit from being in 4 time zones.
 
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Before Neinas took over the Big 12 as interim commissioner in the fall, nd quickly stabilized the television deals - the guy's life long career, has been involved in negotiation of deals that involve college football broadcasting.....the Big XII conference was closer to failure and disbanding than the Big East has ever been. The Big XII conference, becuase of Neinas right now, is solid media wise, but it's not ideal moving forward. They have a much different issue in that conference with Texas, than what we've got with Notre Dame. Texas doesn't need the Big XII, it's just convenient. Notre Dame needs the Big East to remain independant.

BUt anyway - every single big XII athletic department was scrambling for emergency evacuation routes less than a year ago. Several of them approached the Big East for membership.

Neinas came in and stabilized it, for now, and he'll be out the door soon. I don't particularly like how Neinas does business, too much Gordon Gekko corporate raider for my taste, but he's effective. I couldn't believe that the position he squeezed West Virginia into by playing Oliver Luck like a fiddle, but he got the job that needed to get done for the Big XII - done.

Marinatto can learn alot from Chuck Neinas, because the Big East needs to quickly become very skilled in both college football broadcasting and scheduling on top of the experience and skill we've already got managing a large basketball league.

Neinas, and Taglibue both working with the big east at the negotiating tables in a
 
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