ACC

[whaler11]

Please note you've only decided that the ACC is dying. Until you know their deal you don't know the prognosis.

 

[FAIRTIDES]

Let me say this very clearly.

Notre Dame is NEVER going to give up their football independance willingly. Got it? They will NEVER turn over the right to keep 100% of their football revenue from gate receipts and broadcasting. Got it? Notre Dame is highy invested in the survival of the Big East conference, as a full division 1-A conference, because it's the best way for the to easily maintain football independance. Notre Dame, has infinitely more in common with the Big East schools, than any other schools in the country. Notre Dame, will NEVER turn over all tiers of their media rights to a single broadcasting company.

The only way, ONLY way, that Notre Dame ever goes to a conference, is if finally after 130+ years, when this BCS cycle is up, the conferences - all of them in 1-A, line up a playoff system that involves all 11 conference winners to determine a championship. You're talking a 16 team playoff in 4 weeks. It can be done.

In that case, Notre Dame would be forced to join a conference, or never be able to win a national title. And the Big East....... well they're already here for everything else....and if all these teams are so bad anyway.....it sure would be an easy way to the playoff right?

Some people make snarky remarks about how I bring up history and recap it. I promise you that when the Big East goes to the negotiations in September, and our leadership, is not fully aware of everythign that's happened in both college football and professional footbal broadcasting, since Fordham v. Waynesburg at the Polo Grounds was broadcast from the tower at the top of the Empire State building in 1939, AND we are not at that table with Notre Dame sitting right beside us, what this conference needs in a media deal, will not happen. If we go to that table, and go in there, like we did with football in the past, the conference will fall apart by 2014.

We need to be at that table, and understand fully what important time slots for games are all about, and how a 3:30pm EST game, that has post season implications for a PST zone team, is most definitely going to draw new viewers on the west coast, tuning in at 12:30PST local for them, in anticipation of their own 3:30 game.

The events of the past 6 months around the Big East, are earth shattering shocking. I've followed thsi conference since day 1. Things most definitely have changed.

The last piece of the puzzle, for the Big East, is to sit down at the negotiation table, with a complete understanding of football broadcasting, and with Notre Dame, and their independance - on the our side.

Just under six months now until the Big East, football and basketball, is up for sale.

and once more for the record, Notre Dame is not going to the ACC.

One, but not the only, question for ND, as an indy, is schedule. As the conferences get larger and require more conference games, ND might find itself "frozen-out" from what used to be traditional games. Swooford seems well-aware since he mentions the possible impact of "eventualities" on indy status.

 

[Dann]

Please note you've only decided that the ACC is dying. Until you know their deal you don't know the prognosis.

ok. and thats my stance while yours isn't that. thats fine. its all just enjoyable banter on what might happen. am i so wrong to think the acc is dying right now?
-there contract is by far the worst of the top 5 and its a huge gap between 1-5 and then the acc
-they have wake/duke/miami/gt/bc/cuse/pitt all in ther league, what have those schools done lately in fball? not alot. wake had a good year a couple ago and what else? gt had a good run in what 09?
-some of there big publics that are worth alot $$/tv wise like md/unc/ncst/uva are grat schools but what have they done lately on the field?
-schools like fsu/clem are big time no doubt but they haven't exactly lit the field on fire latley either?
-half the league has had ncaa issue the last 3 years.

some of the acc schools are gems that just need a boost in a new conf money/recruit and competition wise to get back to life. but when you put them all together they can't help each other becuase none of them right now are at the top of things. vt is trying to be that top gun and they are a great program but there bcs record shows the beans...

the big east dies becuase of its stupid set up with bball schools and its dumb commish. as result tv $$ wasn't good among other things so schools left over the years. but knock it all you want teams like wvu held it way higher then what the acc has done on the field latley. whats the be's record vs the acc's in bcs games? just imagine now

wvu/cuse/pitt/bc/miami/vt/cincy/lville/uconn/ruty/temple/usf as a 12 team big east. then what does the acc hang its hat on?

with a new tv deal coming now wouldn't this league be ready to rip the acc apart then? and laso be right in the running for nd?
this league could be looking at going after nd/md/uva/unc/fsu/clem and who ever else for 16 and a monster tv deal.

 

[mattp]

I just don't see how the B12 is more attractive to an east coast team than the ACC. if anything the B12 has been much sicker than the ACC over the last few years. plus they have the inherent instability that goes along with Texas trying to run the conference as their lackeys. they've has almost as many issues as the BE. i think the last few years have shown us that the B12 is really the #5 conference, not the ACC. current TV deals are not the end all, they're always subject to change down the road

 

[The Funster]

reading this now. interesting.

I'm not buying this. Why would the other conferences capitulate and just allow the SEC to earn twice as much money as the next most successful conference? Because that is what's going to happen. No one can compete with the SEC on the field so everyone else will wrangle to stop the gap from widening even further.

 

[Dann]

I'm not buying this. Why would the other conferences capitulate and just allow the SEC to earn twice as much money as the next most successful conference? Because that is what's going to happen. No one can compete with the SEC on the field so everyone else will wrangle to stop the gap from widening even further.

or it causes a arms race to 16 so the b10/b12/sec/pac all goto 16 and that forces nd to be apart of one of those and the bcs goes to 4 auto bids for the playoff and everyone else gets shut out until next go around when it becomes a 8 team playoff with 4 autos and 4 open slots. the 8 team playoff will never happen until nd ends up in a conf becuase the big 4 want to force nd to play ball and not give them a indy chance at a spot. the $$ is crazy if a indy makes the playoff, the big 4 won't let that happen.

 

[CTMike]

Big 12 : 10
Big 10 : 12
Pac 12 : 12
SEC : 14
ACC : 14

I'm not convinced that 16 is going to be the magic number going forward... conferences seem to be at a point where adding more teams dilute the payout per team. That's not to say that there's zero room left for movement, just that there's very few pieces left that would make a conference greater than the sum of its parts. That leaves conference stability as a determining factor... though, of course, that's also intertwined with the cash. Basically - a conference may want to add a team for even money if it can appreciably stabilize things.

 

[Dann]

at 12 the sec was stable as can be. why did they goto 14? money? then why not 16 if the money is there?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Big 12 : 10
Big 10 : 12
Pac 12 : 12
SEC : 14
ACC : 14

I'm not convinced that 16 is going to be the magic number going forward... conferences seem to be at a point where adding more teams dilute the payout per team. That's not to say that there's zero room left for movement, just that there's very few pieces left that would make a conference greater than the sum of its parts. That leaves conference stability as a determining factor... though, of course, that's also intertwined with the cash. Basically - a conference may want to add a team for even money if it can appreciably stabilize things.

If college football goes to a playoff, the incentive to expand will go down, because the playoff money will be jaw dropping so why split it more ways.

Otherwise, more teams in a conference means more inventory and more home markets. I don't think conference size is infinite, but bigger seems to be better. I can see why the SEC expanded, but I am still surprised they added those two schools. Neither has won anything in any sport. Missouri has St. Louis and splits KC with Kansas, but Texas A&M doesn't even own a market. UNC and either VTech or UVa would have made a lot more sense for the SEC, and still do.

 

[whaler11]

ok. and thats my stance while yours isn't that. thats fine. its all just enjoyable banter on what might happen. am i so wrong to think the acc is dying right now?
-there contract is by far the worst of the top 5 and its a huge gap between 1-5 and then the acc
-they have wake/duke/miami/gt/bc/cuse/pitt all in ther league, what have those schools done lately in fball? not alot. wake had a good year a couple ago and what else? gt had a good run in what 09?
-some of there big publics that are worth alot $$/tv wise like md/unc/ncst/uva are grat schools but what have they done lately on the field?
-schools like fsu/clem are big time no doubt but they haven't exactly lit the field on fire latley either?
-half the league has had ncaa issue the last 3 years.

some of the acc schools are gems that just need a boost in a new conf money/recruit and competition wise to get back to life. but when you put them all together they can't help each other becuase none of them right now are at the top of things. vt is trying to be that top gun and they are a great program but there bcs record shows the beans...

the big east dies becuase of its stupid set up with bball schools and its dumb commish. as result tv $$ wasn't good among other things so schools left over the years. but knock it all you want teams like wvu held it way higher then what the acc has done on the field latley. whats the be's record vs the acc's in bcs games? just imagine now

wvu/cuse/pitt/bc/miami/vt/cincy/lville/uconn/ruty/temple/usf as a 12 team big east. then what does the acc hang its hat on?

with a new tv deal coming now wouldn't this league be ready to rip the acc apart then? and laso be right in the running for nd?
this league could be looking at going after nd/md/uva/unc/fsu/clem and who ever else for 16 and a monster tv deal.

Why do you hate capital letters?

The ACC may end up being weaker in football. That is different than dying.

 

[Marty Jackson]

I'm not buying this. Why would the other conferences capitulate and just allow the SEC to earn twice as much money as the next most successful conference? Because that is what's going to happen. No one can compete with the SEC on the field so everyone else will wrangle to stop the gap from widening even further.

by what argument does the Big10 and SEC demand that they should get 80% of the total pie for themselves? How does everyone else capitulate?
If the TV revenue is free market, shouldn't the NCAA dole out the money based on field achievements.
This is the most lopsided, unethical, corrupt system I've seen. I don't understand why it's allowed to continue. There is no possible way anyone can compete if 20% of the schools are getting 80% of the revenue.
With states budgets getting smaller, and the gap getting wider, it would seem only a matter of time before state legislatures realize that their funds are getting fast-tracked to the back pockets of Big10 and SEC schools...

 

[nelsonmuntz]

by what argument does the Big10 and SEC demand that they should get 80% of the total pie for themselves? How does everyone else capitulate?
If the TV revenue is free market, shouldn't the NCAA dole out the money based on field achievements.
This is the most lopsided, unethical, corrupt system I've seen. I don't understand why it's allowed to continue. There is no possible way anyone can compete if 20% of the schools are getting 80% of the revenue.
With states budgets getting smaller, and the gap getting wider, it would seem only a matter of time before state legislatures realize that their funds are getting fast-tracked to the back pockets of Big10 and SEC schools...

Because I don't think that is how it will work out. My thoughts on this:

1) I don't see this being 3 games for long, and it may start at 7 games. If you are a network, and there is a playoff of some form out there, every other bowl game's value drops dramatically. Who wants to watch the Capital One Bowl when there is a playoff? Everything else just became the NIT. The interest in bowls was dropping already, it will crater now. Sponsors will evaporate, the whole gig is up if there is a playoff. I bet many of the mid-range bowls fold up shop over night. Why bother?

And as ESPN is cutting rights fees to bowl games, they will say "but if you wanted to add another round of playoff games, we would pay $30MM a piece for those.".

2) Access will be based on quality, not popularity. Access to BCS bowls and top non-BCS bowls is 50% or more based on the size of a team's fan base. A playoff changes that, balanced the playing field for non-SEC teams. Two SEC teams in the Championship will have to earn it next time.

 

[CTMike]

I don't think the remaining bowl ratings will crater only because they are fairly low as is. But, it's cheap live-game inventory to throw on TV, and fans still like the idea of their team earning that one last game. I do agree that a number of crappy bowls should fold up shop though. And the bowl model in general for these other bowl games needs to be tweaked in the favor of schoools and fans so that they don't feel they are getting bent over for what should be a positive.

 

[Marty Jackson]

Because I don't think that is how it will work out. My thoughts on this:

1) I don't see this being 3 games for long, and it may start at 7 games. If you are a network, and there is a playoff of some form out there, every other bowl game's value drops dramatically. Who wants to watch the Capital One Bowl when there is a playoff? Everything else just became the NIT. The interest in bowls was dropping already, it will crater now. Sponsors will evaporate, the whole gig is up if there is a playoff. I bet many of the mid-range bowls fold up shop over night. Why bother?

And as ESPN is cutting rights fees to bowl games, they will say "but if you wanted to add another round of playoff games, we would pay $30MM a piece for those.".

2) Access will be based on quality, not popularity. Access to BCS bowls and top non-BCS bowls is 50% or more based on the size of a team's fan base. A playoff changes that, balanced the playing field for non-SEC teams. Two SEC teams in the Championship will have to earn it next time.

It may not be three games, but the writing is on the wall that the Big 3 (or 4) will do everything to ensure they keep 80-90% of the pot, whether it's from bowl revenue or a playoff. So, in the same manner they used the last BCS agreement to seperate the haves from have-not via the AQ status, they'll do something similar to essentially secure their position and widen the gap, especially if that pot is now split 4 ways and not 6.
a 3 game playoff this time, may become 8 games down the road. By then, if all goes to their plan, the BE and ACC would be reduced to bystanders along witht the other conferences not named SEC, Big10, big12, and Pac12.
As for the impact to other bowls, I'm not sure they die. it depends on how the playoff system is pushed. If it's in line with the current bowl structure then nothing really changes except that the 4 BCS bowls would rotate and be part of the playoffs, similar to today with the NC game. In that case the other bowls still mean nothing except additional fb coverage for TV and money for schools. If the playoffs are presented as that, then that would mean the death of the Rose Bowl et al and I could see bowls as we know them ending. Or maybe the Rose Bowl and others become like the NIT and lose some of their prestige. At one time the NIT was the tourney of choice so it could happen... But I doubt the Rose Bowl would do that willingly.
Either way, the pot is going to be squeezed so that more money goes to the Big 4 conferences. The debate is really how to get this done. I just don't get why the other 6-7 conferences allow this to happen, or why th e state legislatures don't get more involved, especially given the amount of money being pilfer'd in the name of BCS.

 

[uconnfan68]

It may not be three games, but the writing is on the wall that the Big 3 (or 4) will do everything to ensure they keep 80-90% of the pot, whether it's from bowl revenue or a playoff. So, in the same manner they used the last BCS agreement to seperate the haves from have-not via the AQ status, they'll do something similar to essentially secure their position and widen the gap, especially if that pot is now split 4 ways and not 6.
a 3 game playoff this time, may become 8 games down the road. By then, if all goes to their plan, the BE and ACC would be reduced to bystanders along witht the other conferences not named SEC, Big10, big12, and Pac12.
As for the impact to other bowls, I'm not sure they die. it depends on how the playoff system is pushed. If it's in line with the current bowl structure then nothing really changes except that the 4 BCS bowls would rotate and be part of the playoffs, similar to today with the NC game. In that case the other bowls still mean nothing except additional fb coverage for TV and money for schools. If the playoffs are presented as that, then that would mean the death of the Rose Bowl et al and I could see bowls as we know them ending. Or maybe the Rose Bowl and others become like the NIT and lose some of their prestige. At one time the NIT was the tourney of choice so it could happen... But I doubt the Rose Bowl would do that willingly.
Either way, the pot is going to be squeezed so that more money goes to the Big 4 conferences. The debate is really how to get this done. I just don't get why the other 6-7 conferences allow this to happen, or why th e state legislatures don't get more involved, especially given the amount of money being pilfer'd in the name of BCS.

Time to start a new game. Let the other teams have a tournament, and crown a national champion.

 

[Dann]

ok new game

i think the b12 will blow up....

 

[baggerbob]

For all you people who keep saying the Big 12 is going to take from the acc Florida st is not going somewhere to be Texas and Oklahoma's lackey. The big 12 after the 6 years runs out will implode, the only reason it hasn't already, is because the idiot in providence wasn't smart enough last summer to split the football and basketball. He should have invited Kansas,Kansas St, Iowa st,Baylor,Missouri, they all wanted a spot away from texas. Those 5 plus TCU, West Virginia,UCONN, Rutgers,Syracuse,Pitt,USF, Louisville,Cincinnati would have made a good football, and great basketball conference.

 

[Waquoit]

ok new game

.

You think this is a game, son?

 

[Dann]

You think this is a game, son?

yes
yes i do dad

 

[Marty Jackson]

do you honestly think Kansas, Baylor, K-State, Iowa, and Missouri were going to come to the BE without a complete death of the B12? I am pretty certain that any chance to remain affiliated with Texas and Oklahoma was a better choice than coming to the BE. Once the Pac12 fell through, the Big12 survived, and those schools took a big collective sigh. Missouri wound up in the SEC for pete's sake! They weren't coming to the BE unless as a last resort..

Blame Providence for many things, but let's be somewhat realistic. The guy can't force schools to join.

 

[CL82]

do you honestly think Kansas, Baylor, K-State, Iowa, and Missouri were going to come to the BE without a complete death of the B12? I am pretty certain that any chance to remain affiliated with Texas and Oklahoma was a better choice than coming to the BE. Once the Pac12 fell through, the Big12 survived, and those schools took a big collective sigh. Missouri wound up in the SEC for pete's sake! They weren't coming to the BE unless as a last resort..

Blame Providence for many things, but let's be somewhat realistic. The guy can't force schools to join.

I think it was an opportunity. At that point the Big 12 shithouse was going up in flames. I suspect that if the BE had made the same offer to say Kansas and K-State that the ACC made to Syracuse and Pitt (we've got a list of X (unnammed) schools who are interested in joining the BE, we'd like to give you the chance to join first, you have 48 hours to decide, then we'll move onto the next on the list) it might well have been successful - at that particular point it time. Instead, the meatball was gentleman, assuring them we'd be a safety net for them. He must have made quite an imression on them as they repaid his kindness by raiding his conference, and completely disregarding the conference exit provisions. It's not even like Marianetto blinks in these staring contests, it's that he has his eyes closed during them,

 

[Dann]

a man spoke to me and told me this, everyone should drop everything as of 2moro, and make this:

bca=8 team playoff with 5 auto bids to the 5 big boy conf's. other confs can earn there way to a bid kind of like old bcs.

pac(ab) + bsu/unlv/sdsu/byu
wac = idaho/cst//wy/ust/unr/sj/fresno/hawaii/nm/nmst/utep/rice/nt/tulsa/mont or mont st
big(ab) + ist/kan/kst/mizzu
sec(ab) + fsu/miami/clem/gt
acc(ab) = unc/dook/wake/ncst/vt/uva/wvu/md/temple/pitt/cuse/uconn/ruty/bc/navy/amry
eastern ath conf = fiu/fau/ecu/appst/gst/gs/fur/mt/arkst/ast/w&m/rich/ulm/ull/latech/smiss
mac +umass/mar/maine/unh
southern ath conf(ab) = tex/tt/atm/bay/tcu/smu/uh/ok/okst/usf/ucf/cincy/lville/mem/tul/uab

 

[Fishy]

I'll send $5 to the first person who can actually make sense out of whatever the duck* Dan is talking about now. I'll throw in an additional $5 if Dan agrees to undergo a lobotomy or shock therapy or both.

 

[CTMike]

Come on... it's not a HFD post unless it's a) no caps, and b) tossing out insane realignment combos.

 

[huskypantz]

This thread needs an enema.