ACC

[Carl Spackler]

Eerily reminds me of Peter Sellers/Chauncey the Gardener from the movie "Being There".

You know, that's really funny.

The thing though about NYC, is that good or bad, there are more people than seems possible, that grow up and never leave their own neighborhood of the city, and even more that have never been outside the city at all, and even more, who's only experience outside NYC is a short drive up the merritt to see "the country" or through the tunnels across the river and up the palisades for the same thing. The country to hundreds of thousands of people, means 2 story houses back to back suburbia and golf courses.

Me, I love the city, but I'm much happier seeing plenty of trees and grass everywhere on a daily basis w/o having to go running in central park.

THere really is no other place like New York, that I've ever been. Amsterdam comes close, as far as insanity, but the actual environment of people on top of each other in a concrete world is different.

 

[Carl Spackler]

THere are so many experiences in NYC, but one of my favorites, is the quiet that exists on a Sunday morning walk up 5th avenue to St. Patrick's for early morning mass.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

NYC is a huge market that people felt even the Olympics might get lost in.
I don't think the BE needs to garner a huge piece of the pie to be successful simply because of the large numbers.
But BE BB definitely resonates with the city. And it's not just St. John's that's doing it. It's the closeness of all the schools and the ability for most of the schools fans to visit during the BE tourney that makes it an event.

Right, I think we all understand that. However, when you replace 3 of the top 5 fan bases in terms of traveling to MSG (UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, Ville, WVU) with 2 schools in Texas, 1 in Florida, 1 in Tennessee and then Temple the only way to go is down.

 

[UConnDan97]

This thread....this freakin' thread....
Alright. After seemingly 8 months of reading this thread, here is what I have learned:

1) The NBE new tv contract will be in between $1 and $100,000,000 per team (mostly dependent on how desperate NBCSports is for replacing BassMasters).
2) Northeastern college football teams have the capability of delivering between 0.01% and 99.99% of the New York market.
3) UConn will either be in the ACC, Big10, Big12, nothern wing of the SEC, NBE, or the new Yankee Conference next year. And it is all going to be determined by Clemson.
4) Our biggest rival is either BCU, Rutgers, UMass, New Hampshire, or Norwich Free Academy.
5) Notre Dame will either be forced to join the Big10, Big12, ACC, or NBE next year...or they will stay independent for the next 30 years...one or the other.

Did I miss anything? It's hard to sum up a thread that has surpassed "The Sound and the Fury" by Faulkner in both word count and difficulty of reading.

 

[omniorange]

So, the New York City market in terms of sheer numbers might be home to more BCS graduates than any other market simply because it's the largest market overall. However, it doesn't have (and it's fair to say that it won't ever have) the concentration of alums from any one particular conference that you see in effectively every major market outside of the Northeast. That's a demographic issue that all of the marketing and TV exposure in the world can't change.

The flaw in this theory is that despite the above, no one doubts what college basketball conference is New York City's basketball conference, do they?

Of course not. The difference is simple. The Big East has the majority of the programs that NYC fans care about (minus Duke) , has a local team as part of the conference, plays its conference tournament at MSG, and wins.

NYC hasn't had those elements present in any single conference so it defaults to the all-over-the-map mentality you site above as being inherit and I assume unchangeable. When in fact, if a conference ever had in football those same factors the Big East has in basketball you'd see how wrong your theory is.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[omniorange]

My final point: if the old Big East that aggregated Miami, Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt, Virginia Tech and West Virginia all together couldn't deliver the NYC market, why is there faith that UConn and Rutgers alone would be able to do it? What makes that smaller combo more likely to raise that 14% NYC number than what was by all measures a stronger league with bigger brand names with more NYC-based alums before?

Now this is a valid point. It can't.

But if any conference can pull together enough of the football programs that NYC cares about (which means ND would have to be a part of it), plays its conference championship in NYC, and wins, that conference will claim NYC. For now that is an unattainable goal for any conference since ND will likely remain indy for the foreseeable future.

However, if ND does join either the BiG or the ACC, Rutgers and/or UConn will be a part of that equation as well.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Adios]

We need to market ourselves to Greenwich donors, if possible.

http://higley1000.com/archives/44

 

[auggie22]

I noticed that in terms of cities/towns with the largest number of households in the highly 1000 neighborhoods, 5 of the top 25 are in CT: Greenwhich, Westport, New Canaan, Wilton and Darien. That my friends is why Herbst needs to beat the drum in Fairfield county.

 

[RS9999X]

Did I miss anything? It's hard to sum up a thread that has surpassed "The Sound and the Fury" by Faulkner in both word count and difficulty of reading.

Perhaps the inspiring quote of The Sound and The Fury:

It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing

 

[BarkingDog]

Perhaps the inspiring quote of The Sound and The Fury:

It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing

That's a line from William Shakespeare's "Macbeth."
I knew that English degree would come in handy some day.

 

[UConnDan97]

That's a line from William Shakespeare's "Macbeth."
I knew that English degree would come in handy some day.

I gave RS9999X full credit for that because he led into it by saying "the inspiring quote of". I think that's also why he kept certain letters capitalized in his presentation, as if he was still writing Shakespeare's prose. Kudos to you both, fine sirs!

By the way, this is my feeble attempt to at least morph this thread into something poetic...

 

[Dann]

poets dont increase tv $$ value, just ask the acc.

 

[tzznandrew]

I gave RS9999X full credit for that because he led into it by saying "the inspiring quote of". I think that's also why he kept certain letters capitalized in his presentation, as if he was still writing Shakespeare's prose. Kudos to you both, fine sirs!

By the way, this is my feeble attempt to at least morph this thread into something poetic...

Come on. Shakespeare rarely writes prose (though his plays generally gain more prose as he progressed as a writer).

This is from Macbeth, Act 5, Scene 5. Macbeth is speaking in verse after the death of his wife. I thought, perhaps, that his capital letters matched the opening words of his lines, but Macbeth's lines, and that's more or less what he did.

Yes, I went there....

 

[Marty Jackson]

Right, I think we all understand that. However, when you replace 3 of the top 5 fan bases in terms of traveling to MSG (UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, Ville, WVU) with 2 schools in Texas, 1 in Florida, 1 in Tennessee and then Temple the only way to go is down.

I have zero concerns that Temple or Memphis will represent at MSG. Both are solid basketball programs with solid followings. Will Houston or SMU come to MSG? Who knows. UCF? maybe.
Any tourney in NYC with Uconn, UofL, Cincy, G'Town, Villanova, Temple, Memphis, and Marquette will be fine. NYC isn't going to miss the Clampets any time soon.
We may be the 6th best league for FB, but in BB, the BE is what schools, coaches, and recruits aspire to.

 

[UConnDan97]

Come on. Shakespeare rarely writes prose (though his plays generally gain more prose as he progressed as a writer).

This is from Macbeth, Act 5, Scene 5. Macbeth is speaking in verse after the death of his wife. I thought, perhaps, that his capital letters matched the opening words of his lines, but Macbeth's lines, and that's more or less what he did.

Yes, I went there....

Well played, sir. I was classifying it with an unreasonably loose definition by calling it prose, since it lacked the typical tempo or meter (i.e., iambic pentameter) of poetry, but you have bested me with your correction:

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

For fun, try substituting the word "life" above with the words "ACC realignment thread." I'm liking where this is going!

 

[RioDog]

Well played, sir. I was classifying it with an unreasonably loose definition by calling it prose, since it lacked the typical tempo or meter (i.e., iambic pentameter) of poetry, but you have bested me with your correction:

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

For fun, try substituting the word "life" above with the words "ACC realignment thread." I'm liking where this is going!

Actually for me its even better if you replace `life` with just ACC.

Edit: Wow, never thougth I´d be part of this epic thread!

 

[CTMike]

Well played, sir. I was classifying it with an unreasonably loose definition by calling it prose, since it lacked the typical tempo or meter (i.e., iambic pentameter) of poetry, but you have bested me with your correction:

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

For fun, try substituting the word "life" above with the words "ACC realignment thread." I'm liking where this is going!

I'd also say that replacing "life" with "Rutgers" works pretty well too.

 

[jrazz12]

This thread....this freakin' thread....
Alright. After seemingly 8 months of reading this thread, here is what I have learned:

1) The NBE new tv contract will be in between $1 and $100,000,000 per team (mostly dependent on how desperate NBCSports is for replacing BassMasters).
2) Northeastern college football teams have the capability of delivering between 0.01% and 99.99% of the New York market.
3) UConn will either be in the ACC, Big10, Big12, nothern wing of the SEC, NBE, or the new Yankee Conference next year. And it is all going to be determined by Clemson.
4) Our biggest rival is either BCU, Rutgers, UMass, New Hampshire, or Norwich Free Academy.
5) Notre Dame will either be forced to join the Big10, Big12, ACC, or NBE next year...or they will stay independent for the next 30 years...one or the other.

Did I miss anything? It's hard to sum up a thread that has surpassed "The Sound and the Fury" by Faulkner in both word count and difficulty of reading.

A well done synopsis. Love the NFA shout out too

 

[MilliniumPrince]

This thread....this freakin' thread....
Alright. After seemingly 8 months of reading this thread, here is what I have learned:

1) The NBE new tv contract will bbe in between $1 and $100,000,000 per team (mostly dependent on how desperate NBCSports is for replacing BassMasters).
2) Northeastern college football teams have the capability of delivering between 0.01% and 99.99% of the New York market.
3) UConn will either be in the ACC, Big10, Big12, nothern wing of the SEC, NBE, or the new Yankee Conference next year. And it is all going to be determined by Clemson.
4) Our biggest rival is either BCU, Rutgers, UMass, New Hampshire, or Norwich Free Academy.
5) Notre Dame will either be forced to join the Big10, Big12, ACC, or NBE next year...or they will stay independent for the next 30 years...one or the other.

Did I miss anything? It's hard to sum up a thread that has surpassed "The Sound and the Fury" by Faulkner in both word count and difficulty of reading.

Apparently you are slow on the uptake...there is only one truth to be learned from this or any other thread: everything ill in the world can be blames on FHCRE or The Commissioner of the Big East.

 

[Rondogg]

Hello there! I have nothing to add to this thread but I don't want to be left out.

 

[frankthetank]

The flaw in this theory is that despite the above, no one doubts what college basketball conference is New York City's basketball conference, do they?

Of course not. The difference is simple. The Big East has the majority of the programs that NYC fans care about (minus Duke) , has a local team as part of the conference, plays its conference tournament at MSG, and wins.

NYC hasn't had those elements present in any single conference so it defaults to the all-over-the-map mentality you site above as being inherit and I assume unchangeable. When in fact, if a conference ever had in football those same factors the Big East has in basketball you'd see how wrong your theory is.

Cheers,
Neil

Good to see you here, Neil!

Yes, I would say that the Big East delivers the NYC market with respect to basketball for the reason that you stated. The combo of UConn and St. John's (and to a lesser extent, Seton Hall and Rutgers) will still give the Big East a real presence in the NYC market for basketball purposes. That being said, that current advantage is going to be chipped away with Syracuse leaving for the ACC. It's kind of like the effect of Texas A&M leaving for the SEC - that doesn't take away the fact that the Big 12 still owns the Texas market overall, but an important contingent just walked out the door that turns that market from a Big 12 monopoly to a Big 12/SEC duopoly. Similarly, NYC will still be a Big East basketball market, but Syracuse combined with Duke and other ACC bandwagon basketball fans is going to take a chunk of eyeballs.

Now, someone said above that "winners" are what deliver the NYC market, which I agree is really what it comes down to. When you have such a large population base with scattered college loyalties, then you need bandwagon fans to get market penetration (and bandwagon fans don't bother watching losers or even mediocrity). UConn and Syracuse are elite winners in basketball, so that's why they draw interest in the NYC market. None of the Tri-State teams are elite winners in football, so the NYC bandwagoners have gravitated toward Notre Dame and Penn State, and the issue is that this has been the case for so long that it would take a generation to undo (and that's assuming that one of the Tri-State teams starts winning big *immediately*).

So, sure, if Rutgers or UConn can win national championships in football, then you can see them get real traction in the NYC market. Casual fans will watch winners. (Of course, there's an intimation that "all you have to do is win" as if that's an easy thing to do in big-time college football. That's obviously not true at all.) The argument that I'm often seeing, though, is that proximity in and of itself gives them traction in the NYC market for football, which I don't believe to be the case (whereas proximity of schools in and of itself DOES give the Pac-12 traction in LA, the Big Ten traction in Chicago, the Big 12 traction in Dallas, etc.). There are already 9 pro sports teams constantly fighting for attention in the NYC market, so if you want to get onto the viewing plate of casual sports fans there, you need to win big early and win big often. So, on top of competing with other college conferences, the Big East is also competing with the most crowded pro sports market in the country that sucks up all of the media and fan attention.

Once again, I think the Big East can get a good TV contract simply because of overall sports TV rights market inflation. However, the Big East can't bank on the NYC market. The way that Louisville consistently draws people in its own smaller market is frankly more important to the Big East right now than trying to argue that it owns NYC in any shape or form.

 

[epark88]

I noticed that in terms of cities/towns with the largest number of households in the highly 1000 neighborhoods, 5 of the top 25 are in CT: Greenwhich, Westport, New Canaan, Wilton and Darien. That my friends is why Herbst needs to beat the drum in Fairfield county.

I'm sure Bob Burton's got a couple of friends down there he can talk to, right?

(Uh-oh, don't answer that)...

 

[Marty Jackson]

the end...

 

[Dann]

nope!

the acc is going to get $16mil a team from espn with cuse and pitt on board. they can get $18mil if they give away the 3rd tier/land or w/e grants.

the b12 right now with 10 teams is getting $22mil per team. if they add fsu/clem it goes up to $24 and then $26 for the ship game at 12 teams. its also been said that any of miami/gt/unc/ncst/vt/uva/md each also bring a $2mil bump.

those southern acc school are fball first and are not friends with tobacco road. at some point academic rankings go out the window and that time would be about now (this summer) when the $$ is so much better elsewhere. how can acc schools like fsu/clem live with themselves wtching sec school and b12 school rake in the cash while there conf is talking about bball. they won't, its happening. this is why susan and the rutgers media head both said "our schools are not desperate and have options" w/e it was quote wise....

we saw the mess coming and decided not to be a apart of it. the b12 will get there commish soon and then add 6. the question is what 6.
lville/byu/fsu/clem/miami/gt/vt/md/ncst seem to be the possible ones. unc/uva know the Big10 or SEC would grab them easy so they don't need the travel of the B12.

What ever the outcome is, the ACC will be duke/wake/cuse/pitt/bc and thats it. The SEC and B10 will each goto 16 with there picks and those schools won't be any of them. Its also possible that MD gets left out but the others will get scopped up quick. If uconn ruty aren't picked up by the Big10 then...... those 5 are a ok bball league and horrible fball league. do ruty, uconn, navy, temple join that hot mess or do we say welp told u so and now u die because of it and stick it to them by staying with the new bloods. from a history/rivals point of view you join and try to rebuild that ACC. but from a $$ view you stick with the nnbe. thats a crazy choice to make now...

b12-clem/fsu/miami/gt/lville/byu
sec-ncst/vt
b10-md/uva/unc/nd or if not they pick between kansas/ruty/uconn

acc is now-duke/wake/bc/cuse/pitt

now what?

do you like the potential of cincy/usf/ucf/uh/bsu etc or do u like a group of dying fball schools with good bball? i would like to think we go where the $$ is and where fball is growing not dying no matter the bball.

this summer is going to get ugly....

 

[whaler11]

nope!

the acc is going to get $16mil a team from espn with cuse and pitt on board. they can get $18mil if they give away the 3rd tier/land or w/e grants.

the b12 right now with 10 teams is getting $22mil per team. if they add fsu/clem it goes up to $24 and then $26 for the ship game at 12 teams. its also been said that any of miami/gt/unc/ncst/vt/uva/md each also bring a $2mil bump.

those southern acc school are fball first and are not friends with tobacco road. at some point academic rankings go out the window and that time would be about now (this summer) when the $$ is so much better elsewhere. how can acc schools like fsu/clem live with themselves wtching sec school and b12 school rake in the cash while there conf is talking about bball. they won't, its happening. this is why susan and the rutgers media head both said "our schools are not desperate and have options" w/e it was quote wise....

we saw the mess coming and decided not to be a apart of it. the b12 will get there commish soon and then add 6. the question is what 6.
lville/byu/fsu/clem/miami/gt/vt/md/ncst seem to be the possible ones. unc/uva know the Big10 or SEC would grab them easy so they don't need the travel of the B12.

What ever the outcome is, the ACC will be duke/wake/cuse/pitt/bc and thats it. The SEC and B10 will each goto 16 with there picks and those schools won't be any of them. Its also possible that MD gets left out but the others will get scopped up quick. If uconn ruty aren't picked up by the Big10 then...... those 5 are a ok bball league and horrible fball league. do ruty, uconn, navy, temple join that hot mess or do we say welp told u so and now u die because of it and stick it to them by staying with the new bloods. from a history/rivals point of view you join and try to rebuild that ACC. but from a $$ view you stick with the nnbe. thats a crazy choice to make now...

b12-clem/fsu/miami/gt/lville/byu
sec-ncst/vt
b10-md/uva/unc/nd or if not they pick between kansas/ruty/uconn

acc is now-duke/wake/bc/cuse/pitt

now what?

do you like the potential of cincy/usf/ucf/uh/bsu etc or do u like a group of dying fball schools with good bball? i would like to think we go where the $$ is and where fball is growing not dying no matter the bball.

this summer is going to get ugly....

The ACC is never going to be Duke/Wake/Cuse/Pitt/BC. This isn't kids playing around in North Carolina and Virginia. The state legislatures are going to keep VPI and Virginia as well as NCSU and UNC in the same leagues. Virginia just put in a ton of effort to get VPI into the ACC.

Schools like North Carolina aren't abandoning the ACC over 4-6 million dollars. Florida State might... but Carolina and Virginia aren't going anywhere.