ACC

[Dann]

Isn't Swaim universally acknowledged as a poorly informed asshat on expansion? Even if ACC loses 2, why not just stay at 12?

was just posting it to add to the thread. you don't stay at 12 becuase you need more tv markets for more $$. losing a fsu/clem to the b12 would make the acc contract like $13mil a year per team. you then add ruty/uconn or whoever your picks are to get that # back up to $15mil a year.

The last thing the acc wants is for the b12 to take only 2 schools(2 of the best acc schools) and then for the BIG to make a move east. When southern schools leave the acc, all that league can hand its hat on would be being the east coast nyc/dc conf. the minute the BIG comes it thats gone.

I know its just my wild opinion but the $$ difference and the new playoff coming will just be to much for some acc schools to pass up. that will lead to big changes and as result uconn is a hope and prayer that the BIG is interested otherwise were in a acc thats left out most years of a bcs playoff. that waterdowned acc is still better than the new big east though becuase of rivals and name schools and the other sports being good. the issue is $$ at that point.

 

[TRest]

Not the iceman!

You made me go over and see that orangebloods is a premium site for the iceman's dropping of knowledge. Go ahead and cut and paste it here, he isn't a publisher for scout or rivals, his postings aren't premium material. Or just summarize please.

 

[Dann]

If that's at all correct, it makes me want to puke. The rich get richer and everyone else fights for scraps.

i know its hard to swallow. under that, if notre dame or byu ever puts it together and wins a ship they would take home the full 90mil for themselves having no conf to split it with. crazy. it makes me think that if that did ever happen, maybe uconn football would atleast explore going indy instead of the new big east. then ppl will say how do you fill a schedule? well its possible. if uconn kept its other sports in the big east we could(becuase we know the BE commish is a rtard) form a way that we play a couple new big east schools a year in fball for the return of keeping our high profile bball and other sports in the league. we can stay competitive and have a good deal with sny for most games and a couple a year make espn and maybe abc. that one year we have a 12-0 run and beat a couple good teams we get a bid to the playoff and make a ton of $$ and wala....

 

[Dann]

You made me go over and see that orangebloods is a premium site for the iceman's dropping of knowledge. Go ahead and cut and paste it here, he isn't a publisher for scout or rivals, his postings aren't premium material. Or just summarize please.

Originally posted by = Ice Man =:
I don't know anything about the Big XII officially reaching out to Georgia Tech, but I know a lot of unofficial communication has taken place with a number of schools (tire kicking if you will), and Georgia Tech has indicated they're not interested in leaving the ACC. But, I'm not aware of anything formal being discussed or offered.

Georgia Tech is an interesting school, b/c though they're located in a talent rich state full of football tradition, they're more interested in being an academic elite than an athletic elite. They really truly love that they rub elbows with Duke, UNC, Wake, and UVA. Being a power program just isn't that important to them. If it was, they wouldn't have the highest student-athlete entrance requirements of any public university in the country, and likely higher than most of the AQ private schools as well.

The internal consensus is even if Florida State & Clemson left, they'd stay in the ACC, b/c they'd prefer to play a lower brand of sports against like-minded institutions than to play at the highest levels of collegiate sports in an academically inferior conference. I don't think they or the Big Ten have any interest in each other, but that's the only conference I could see them leaving for, and even then, I think it would take a package that included UVA and UNC for them to leave.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over GA Tech not being interested. I think most of us love the idea of them b/c they're in an SEC state. But, the reality is, they're a horrible basketball school, have lukewarm fan support, and their football success has largely come from running gimmick offenses. In a weak ACC, they look pretty decent, but in a quality conference, they'd be a 5-7 win team.


In your opinion what schools will be added to the Big 12? FSU? Clemson? Louisville? Miami? BYU? And, order and time? THANKS!
There's no way to know for sure. I really think Louisville is a shoo-in unless someone huge pops up to take their place. But, by shoo-in, I'm talking about ONLY if the Big XII expands. And, the Big XII will not expand if there isn't a power program added. Nobody wants another situation where all the talent is in one division, ala the old Big XII. Right now, Louisville is the only program that the Big XII likes that they know they can get.

BYU is a backup to the backup to the backup plan. They missed their shot, and will only get another one if all 4 wheels fall off the cart. As for FSU, Clemson, Miami, and anyone else from the ACC, it's all going to come down to money and what kind of package the Big XII can offer......and none of that will be known until the Big XII and ACC TV contracts are finalized AND the Big XII hires a new commissioner.

There are simply too many variables up in the air to know whether the Big XII expands or not, and who they expand with if they do. If they do expand, you can count Louisville in. But, if I were Louisville, I'd be rooting hard for Florida State & Clemson to jump in, b/c the Big XII isn't expanding with Louisville and come combination of BYU, Rutgers, and Cincinnati. The North/East Division would be horrendous, and would create another lopsided Big XII.

 

[TRest]

Thanks. The iceman actually makes sense. I will never doubt him again.

 

[whaler11]

This Iceman makes Waylon seem rational.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

This Iceman makes Waylon seem rational.

Funny. So what started on this board with me making an observation that if the Big 12 was at $20+ per school per year, and they had an auto-escalator in their new TV deal, then they were probably aiming higher than Rutgers and Louisville, is now getting validated by by several "insiders" at other boards.

The really funny part is that you refuse to acknowledge any realignment rumors that don't put UConn and the Big East in a worse light.

 

[Hoophound]

Funny. So what started on this board with me making an observation that if the Big 12 was at $20+ per school per year, and they had an auto-escalator in their new TV deal, then they were probably aiming higher than Rutgers and Louisville, is now getting validated by by several "insiders" at other boards.

The really funny part is that you refuse to acknowledge any realignment rumors that don't put UConn and the Big East in a worse light.

"the northern division would be horrendous". That's a little ignorant. All of those schools can compete in the B12 along with WVU. Well, not Rutgers, but you know what I mean.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

reading this now. interesting.

Clemson's board has picked up something similar. Interestingly, Florida State's rivals board had an expansion thread with similar info and then the whole thing was deleted.

If you were FSU and Clemson, why would you stay? The money is better, and the Big 12 is the ONLY league that would take you. The SEC will never take either, and the Big 10 has several schools higher on their radar. There is also a realistic chance that either or both of the SEC or Big 10 eventually come for a North Carolina or Virginia schools.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

"the northern division would be horrendous". That's a little ignorant. All of those schools can compete in the B12 along with WVU. Well, not Rutgers, but you know what I mean.

I don't think that is exactly the case being made. FSU draws 70k+ to games and is a major state school. Clemson is the same. Both are in states that are growing rapidly. This is all about TV. Louisville is a very good athletic program, but Kentucky is a small, poor state and UK is clearly the #1 program in the state. I don't think BYU wants to join the Big 12, because if they did they would have gone instead of WVU.

 

[CTMike]

The thing that's really annoying the hell out of me is that it's shaping up to be nearly impossible for UConn to be one of the "haves" instead of one of the "have nots".

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The thing that's really annoying the hell out of me is that it's shaping up to be nearly impossible for UConn to be one of the "haves" instead of one of the "have nots".

Unfortunately, I think you are correct.

I haven't figured out what the best play for UConn is if all this happens as it seems to be. Obviously, if just Clemson and FSU leave, we would want to be scooped up by the ACC, probably with Rutgers. My suspicion though, is if FSU and Clemson leave, the ACC comes unraveled, losing Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina and someone else, let's assume NC State for now to some combination of the Big 12, ACC and Big 10.

I am not sure that leaving the Big East to join a league of Miami, Wake Forest, Duke, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Pitt, Syracuse and BC is such a good idea.

 

[Hoophound]

Unfortunately, I think you are correct.

I haven't figured out what the best play for UConn is if all this happens as it seems to be. Obviously, if just Clemson and FSU leave, we would want to be scooped up by the ACC, probably with Rutgers. My suspicion though, is if FSU and Clemson leave, the ACC comes unraveled, losing Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina and someone else, let's assume NC State for now to some combination of the Big 12, ACC and Big 10.

I am not sure that leaving the Big East to join a league of Miami, Wake Forest, Duke, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Pitt, Syracuse and BC is such a good idea.

No, but that group combined with UConn, Rutgers, Cincy, and maybe Louisville isn't bad. You put the bball tourney in New York and you've got a pretty decent conference. I suspect Maryland would get an invite somewhere else though.

 

[CTMike]

Well... it's an idea, anyway. I've been in favor of ACC and BegHarder for a while. And even in the scenario you mention above... I'd probably be happier with that lineup of teams. But it's no panacea. At best... it's only somewhat better than the NNBE.

Is there any way at this point to stop the SEC/Big 10/Big 12/Pac 12 from taking all the money and running?

Winning, theoretically, is an answer... but the game is clearly rigged in the SEC's favor in terms of getting paid. So while there was some historical ebb and flow in the power of different conferences, that goes away with the way money is proposed to be divvied up. I guess we'll see.

 

[whaler11]

Don't you get that every rumor puts the Big East in a worse light? Every move ends with a Big East team going out the door. Unless you haven't noticed that the league has 2 football members left from the period of the original raid.

Unless you'd like to count the team that already got kicked out for ineptness.

 

[whaler11]

Well... it's an idea, anyway. I've been in favor of ACC and BegHarder for a while. And even in the scenario you mention above... I'd probably be happier with that lineup of teams. But it's no panacea. At best... it's only somewhat better than the NNBE.

Is there any way at this point to stop the SEC/Big 10/Big 12/Pac 12 from taking all the money and running?

Winning, theoretically, is an answer... but the game is clearly rigged in the SEC's favor in terms of getting paid. So while there was some historical ebb and flow in the power of different conferences, that goes away with the way money is proposed to be divvied up. I guess we'll see.

Yes there is ESPN. If they decide they desire to keep the ACC in its current form they can certainly make that happen.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Don't you get that every rumor puts the Big East in a worse light? Every move ends with a Big East team going out the door. Unless you haven't noticed that the league has 2 football members left from the period of the original raid.

Unless you'd like to count the team that already got kicked out for ineptness.

I simply think the Big East is not relevant to the ACC's problem at all. They are only related in terms of "what comes next" after the ACC is raided.

Swofford will have to pull one hell of a rabbit out of a hat to save the ACC. In one of the threads about this, one "insider" said Swofford and ESPN are deadlocked on the new TV deal. It says to me that Swofford is going for more than just the $1-2MM per team more that was reported several months ago, probably because he realizes that if he ends up at $15MM per team, the ACC is dead. It is hard to negotiate though when you can't walk away from the table, and that is where he is with ESPN. He can't talk to anyone else.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

No, but that group combined with UConn, Rutgers, Cincy, and maybe Louisville isn't bad. You put the bball tourney in New York and you've got a pretty decent conference. I suspect Maryland would get an invite somewhere else though.

You may be right. It also may make sense to just take the rest of the ACC schools into a Super Duper Conference that would be more scheduling alliance and TV Co-op than conference, just to give NBC something more sizable to bid on.

 

[whaler11]

I simply think the Big East is not relevant to the ACC's problem at all. They are only related in terms of "what comes next" after the ACC is raided.

Swofford will have to pull one hell of a rabbit out of a hat to save the ACC. In one of the threads about this, one "insider" said Swofford and ESPN are deadlocked on the new TV deal. It says to me that Swofford is going for more than just the $1-2MM per team more that was reported several months ago, probably because he realizes that if he ends up at $15MM per team, the ACC is dead. It is hard to negotiate though when you can't walk away from the table, and that is where he is with ESPN. He can't talk to anyone else.

Its certainly not a great spot to be in. It's impossible to tell what's real and what isn't. FSU and Clemson rumors may be created by the ACC themselves to pressure ESPN into keeping the current membership together.

I really can't see anyone but those two teams moving to the Big 12 from the ACC.

I guess it depends on your definition of dead. I dont see the ACC as dead without those two schools. It certainly becomes a distant 5th in quality, but does it change much for anyone but VPI? Its not like any of the other schools are going to challenge for football National Championships anyway.

 

[Dann]

acc of miami/duke/wake/cuse/pitt/bc and miami is questionable going to the b12

vs

bosie/cincy/uh/ucf/usf/ruty among others

i would argue that a bunh of historic teams rival wise for us are in the acc. but how many rivals/how much history do we have really? we have played fball for 10 years and to be real besides cuse i don't give a shit about those bball schools. we can find games elsewhere in that sport. in other sports thats a ok at best conf. the acc before the raid had schools like uva/unc who are school we want to be with other sports wise.

bosie is probally the best team on the field then follow that by cincy. the nnbe has up and coming teams, a visit to fl every year built in and a local rival in ruty/temple. the nnbe most likely would have the same tv contract if not better if miami is gone. its a tough call.

i could see the acc gutted and do this:
bc/uconn/cuse/ruty/temple/pitt/duke/wake/usf/ucf/miami or if not ecu or del /cincy/army/navy

 

[Fishy]

The twisted reality of the realignment board - the ACC is dead because of a raid that hasn't happened anywhere but here, but the Big East is looking peachy despite actually having been picked almost entirely clean.

 

[Hoophound]

The twisted reality of the realignment board - the ACC is dead because of a raid that hasn't happened anywhere but here, but the Big East is looking peachy despite actually having been picked almost entirely clean.

Nobody thinks the Big East is peachy. Sorry, go back to page 1 and start all over again. That will teach you!

 

[Fishy]

Nobody thinks the Big East is peachy. Sorry, go back to page 1 and start all over again. That will teach you!

You go back to page one - you'll find that some of these lunatics think the Big East is in the driver's seat.

 

[mattp]

Agree 100%. The time to work cooperatively was before they took Pitt and Syracuse. Now there is no point. Unfortunately, the outcome will be much, much worse for both leagues than if they had worked cooperatively.

FSU to the Big 12 is getting a lot of traction with analysts and "insiders", at a level of Texas A&M to the SEC in the weeks leading up to that announcement. I think it is going to happen.

TXA&M got traction from actual news sources. i haven't seen any credible sources mention FSU to the B12. has anyone seen mention of FSU or Clemson from anyone worthwhile? until i do i'll file it next to my "rutgers to the Big10" file

 

[mattp]

To add to the above, as I understand it, the B12 schools committed all their tv rights for like 10 years. If anyone leaves the conference, they won't be allowed on tv. Basically, the B12 is rock solid. Chuck Neinas is a genius.

i'm sure that's about as solid as the Big East's two year waiting period to leave the conference.

 

[Hoophound]

You go back to page one - you'll find that some of these lunatics think the Big East is in the driver's seat.

Really? No f'in way am I going through that jungle again. I'll just take your word for it. I was kind of hoping this thread would get locked.

 

[Dann]

TXA&M got traction from actual news sources. i haven't seen any credible sources mention FSU to the B12. has anyone seen mention of FSU or Clemson from anyone worthwhile? until i do i'll file it next to my "rutgers to the Big10" file

i don't think there is anything from a actual news sorce saying those 2 etc...

but news sorces have said the following
-fsu was one of the teams to keep the acc buyout down at 20 and not 35
-clemson has formed a expansion committie

no why would either of those 2 schools do that stuff for any reason if the acc was all safe and good?

 

[Dann]

You go back to page one - you'll find that some of these lunatics think the Big East is in the driver's seat.

oh come on. carl is pro nbe and he got ripped for it as he should have. but no one else here is actually saying that uconn in the nnbe is better than being #16 for the acc or b16.

 

[mattp]

i figure they were probably hoping to join the SEC. what interest would they have in the B12? i can't see either of them moving their other sports to a conference in the midwest.

 

[Dann]

i figure they were probably hoping to join the SEC. what interest would they have in the B12? i can't see either of them moving their other sports to a conference in the midwest.

well thats the thing, they wouldn't be moving there sports to the midwest if both of them went with others. the b12 would turn into a east west divisions setup.

west- tex/tt/bay/ok/okst/kan/kst and 1 of tcu/ist. most likely ist becuase the eact coast team would want a texas school so that they can goto and recruit texas. maybe even a 2-2 split among tex schools. the east could be wvu/fsu/clem/miami/lville etc... they would have a eastern division that was ok travel wise, no worse of better than the acc now. when atm left the b12 for the sec the b12 took it on the chin becuase they held 100% recruit advantage over the sec, now atm has opened up the texas recruting to all of the sec. the b12 is now looking to do the same by getting into fl as the tradeoff.

the question becomes if the b12 really goes after fsu and crew(why wouldn't they atleast try?) then at what point does the sec have enough of it? the sec was able to gain texas, a deep blow to the b12. but the sec doesn't want teams like fsu/clem becuase those markets are already covered. but would the sec be better off taking fsu/clem as 15/16 and just breaking even tv $$ wise(they add $$ no doubt but the markets don't bring alot being covered already to a degree) in order to block the b12 from getting on the secs level.

this could all be a strategy by clem/fsu to get into the sec. but the b12 is a nice backup for them compared to the dying acc. if fsu/clem did get into the sec becuase that league values protecting its land then the acc would be in ok shape, but miami/gt wouldn't be able to handle the sec in all aspects down there if so. in that case the acc would prob respond by matching the sec's 16 by going for 4 of these 5 (lville/ucf/usf/ruty/uconn. at that point in things i think the acc would finally throw academics out the window just to fight another day. my guess then is lville/usf/uconn/ruty to the acc for 16 as the acc would look for a 2nd fl market with usf being the better of the 2 and a 2nd sec market in lville. and at that point you will realize the acc really screwed up by not taking wvu and pitt instead of cuse and pitt.