ACC wants UConn if ND comes too

[ctchamps]

toppencil:

If you read my post closely I make the claim that I'm a Uconn fan with a bb lean. But I'm advocating against my personal preference.

I give the odds of getting into the B!G as less than 1%. Maybe that is delusional in your book but until events play out anything is possible even if unlikely. Look at that run this past season for the men's bb team. It shouldn't have happened and not in the way it happened. But it did and I'm still pinching myself.

As far as the ACC I give it a better than even odds UConn lands there. In another thread I stated 80.23% but I was just being cute.

If you are correct and the invites don't appear, then UConn should and will work hard to make the best of a bad situation. I feel your pain. It took me two days to recover after hearing Pitt and Cuse, two of the most relevant men's bb teams were heading to the ACC. But I'm not going to let my own personal emotions dictate outcomes.

You might be aware of Pavlovs conditioning. The BE has suffered not one but two major defections in a short time frame. The remaining members are gun shy. I can't blame them.

So time will tell who is right and who is wrong. But that wouldn't make the person amongst us who guessed wrong delusional, nor would it make the people who guessed correctly prophetic. It would makes events confluent with our predictions or contrary to our predictions.

 

[gars44]

Sorry to burst all your bubbles but UConn football is a tiny tiny little minnow in the college football world. Nobody will be asking them to join their conference anytime soon. The Big 10(12)?! you are delusional. They have a slim chance at the ACC if the SEC raids the ACC first. Right now, that looks unlikely.

UConn should come down from delusional mountain and show some loyalty to the Big East. Help rebuild it, increase its fan base and make it a stronger football conference. For the foreseable future Big East football will struggle to maintain its AQ status.

And no, basketball, soccer and all the other quality sports teams UConn fields don't matter; it's all about football. Basketball is huge in the northeast but relatively unimportant in the rest of the country.

Yeah, I agree, but how do you do that? How do you keep this league together? RU wants out, has been working behind the scenes just as hard as Pitt and Syracuse have been for the past few years. CT now wants out. Not before this latest debacle. Louisville, WVA, Cincy, literally everyone is taking the line "we'll monitor the landscape and do what's best for our student athletes." This means everyone is out of here at the first opportunity. I agree that we have to patch something together, but no one is making any promises. Not even your school.

 

[toppencil]

toppencil:

If you read my post closely I make the claim that I'm a Uconn fan with a bb lean. But I'm advocating against my personal preference.

I give the odds of getting into the B!G as less than 1%. Maybe that is delusional in your book but until events play out anything is possible even if unlikely. Look at that run this past season for the men's bb team. It shouldn't have happened and not in the way it happened. But it did and I'm still pinching myself.

As far as the ACC I give it a better than even odds UConn lands there. In another thread I stated 80.23% but I was just being cute.

If you are correct and the invites don't appear, then UConn should and will work hard to make the best of a bad situation. I feel your pain. It took me two days to recover after hearing Pitt and Cuse, two of the most relevant men's bb teams were heading to the ACC. But I'm not going to let my own personal emotions dictate outcomes.

You might be aware of Pavlovs conditioning. The BE has suffered not one but two major defections in a short time frame. The remaining members are gun shy. I can't blame them.

So time will tell who is right and who is wrong. But that wouldn't make the person amongst us who guessed wrong delusional, nor would it make the people who guessed correctly prophetic. It would makes events confluent with our predictions or contrary to our predictions.

I suggest the following article to anyone who thinks UConn football is valuable to another conference. Adding UConn won't bring enough incremental TV money to warrant an invite. It's all a numbers game.
http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/

 

[gars44]

bl corrected me as I showed one post before you wrote this. Didn't know about the top 8 ranking or improved bowl get. All this points to ND staying independent.

ND stays independent only if they have CONFERENCE for the rest of their athletic program. ND football will always be fine as an independent. It's the rest of the sports.

 

[toppencil]

Yeah, I agree, but how do you do that? How do you keep this league together? RU wants out, has been working behind the scenes just as hard as Pitt and Syracuse have been for the past few years. CT now wants out. Not before this latest debacle. Louisville, WVA, Cincy, literally everyone is taking the line "we'll monitor the landscape and do what's best for our student athletes." This means everyone is out of here at the first opportunity. I agree that we have to patch something together, but no one is making any promises. Not even your school.

Others on this site have noted various schools that will have to be added. You really can't replace Syracuse and Pitt. So you have to look for programs with long term potential. Army and Navy as football only members makes sense to me, you need bodies right now and Navy isn't bad. I would strongly consider UCF even though USF is 90 miles away. Both of these Florida programs will be monsters in the future. Villanova needs to move up. And while it will surely ruffle some UConn feathers I would try to add UMass, they actually have a good football team and it would piss off BC. Another possible option is Memphis.

While there is a lot of fear that more schools are moving, I don't agree. The Big 10 is done, the Pac 12 is done, and the SEC might add one more school. If someone from the ACC jumps to the SEC they will probably look to the Big 12 for a replacement. The wild cards in all this is Notre Dame and Texas, all conferences will seriously consider them because of their huge fan bases.

As for the Big East, get to 12 football schools, make it hard to leave (see ACC $20 million buy out clause) and slowly build your brand with quality victories. Here's hoping West Virginia beats LSU tonight. Syracuse and Pitt were doing nothing in that department. TCU should help there soon.

 

[tzznandrew]

If someone from the ACC jumps to the SEC they will probably look to the Big 12 for a replacement.

In my opinion, you lost what little shreds of credibility you had with this statement. If the SEC poaches FSU or VT, you think the ACC will take who, Mizzou? Kansas?

If the BXII is sticking together, Kansas won't be able to get away from KState. The only way that was happening is if Conference Armageddon happened.

Missouri is, slightly, possible, but they are so far away from everybody in the ACC they would be more isolated that BC was. They're roughly 800 miles away from their closest competitors (Pitt/VT). We saw how well that worked out for BC--and BC was only 400 miles from their closest competitors. And that's a nightmare for their non-revenue sports. Plus, Missouri will only go to the B1G, or, if that doesn't work, the SEC if it has to.

If an ACC school leaves, and neither Texas or ND jumps to the ACC (and they won't), the ACC will turn to UConn, or, perhaps, Rutgers. You might even be able to have an argument for WVU (better football), but their Academics aren't strong enough.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Basketball is huge in the northeast but relatively unimportant in the rest of the country.

Exactly how much is Kentucky paying John Calipari?
What is Texas paying Rick Barnes?
How about Kansas and Bill Self?
How large is Billy Donovan's contract at Florida?
What about Sean Miller at Arizona, what are they paying him?

If you believe those schools are in the northeast you need to work on your understanding of geography. If not, your above statement is dead wrong.

 

[tzznandrew]

Exactly how much is Kentucky paying John Calipari?
What is Texas paying Rick Barnes?
How about Kansas and Bill Self?
How large is Billy Donovan's contract at Florida?
What about Sean Miller at Arizona, what are they paying him?

If you believe those schools are in the northeast you need to work on your understanding of geography. If not, your above statement is dead wrong.

What about Indiana? I'm pretty sure Hoosiers wasn't filmed in Springfield, MA.

 

[toppencil]

In my opinion, you lost what little shreds of credibility you had with this statement. If the SEC poaches FSU or VT, you think the ACC will take who, Mizzou? Kansas?

If the BXII is sticking together, Kansas won't be able to get away from KState. The only way that was happening is if Conference Armageddon happened.

Missouri is, slightly, possible, but they are so far away from everybody in the ACC they would be more isolated that BC was. They're roughly 800 miles away from their closest competitors (Pitt/VT). We saw how well that worked out for BC--and BC was only 400 miles from their closest competitors. And that's a nightmare for their non-revenue sports. Plus, Missouri will only go to the B1G, or, if that doesn't work, the SEC if it has to.

If an ACC school leaves, and neither Texas or ND jumps to the ACC (and they won't), the ACC will turn to UConn, or, perhaps, Rutgers. You might even be able to have an argument for WVU (better football), but their Academics aren't strong enough.

Keep dreaming.

 

[toppencil]

Exactly how much is Kentucky paying John Calipari?
What is Texas paying Rick Barnes?
How about Kansas and Bill Self?
How large is Billy Donovan's contract at Florida?
What about Sean Miller at Arizona, what are they paying him?

If you believe those schools are in the northeast you need to work on your understanding of geography. If not, your above statement is dead wrong.

Nope just that football drives all the other conferences including the ACC, the only exception is the Big East. That may change if the league splits up into basketball only schools and the football schools.

 

[tzznandrew]

Keep dreaming.

Wow, are you 12?

You didn't respond to any of my points.

If they lose a team to the SEC, which "Big XII" team will they select and why? I told you why Kansas and Missouri are highly unlikely additions. Is the ACC going to take Baylor?

 

[toppencil]

The Huskies are just getting started in big time football. Give it some more time. Ten years from now the Huskies may have the leverage to make a move to a stronger conference. Or maybe by then the Big East will be a stronger football conference, maybe strong enough to get Notre Dame to join. A lot changes with time, when I went to UConn we were IAA and sucked. We also couldn't beat anybody in basketball. Look how far we have come.

When BC, Miami and VT left the ACC was predicted to be a super conference in football. It didn't happen. The ACC is a good conference but far from the promised land of athletic conferences. The Big East will overcome.

 

[tzznandrew]

I suggest the following article to anyone who thinks UConn football is valuable to another conference. Adding UConn won't bring enough incremental TV money to warrant an invite. It's all a numbers game.
http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/

The actual stats suggests that the ACC should take Rutgers. While I like Nate Silver, there have been numerous debunkings of his methodology on this. But say take this to be true--it certainly doesn't argue you shouldn't take UConn. The Hartford/New Haven market is a top 35 market, and add in the gains the ACC can get in the NYC market with Rutgers and UConn (1 and 4 in that market) and you're looking good.

 

[intlzncster]

The Huskies are just getting started in big time football. Give it some more time. Ten years from now the Huskies may have the leverage to make a move to a stronger conference. Or maybe by then the Big East will be a stronger football conference, maybe strong enough to get Notre Dame to join. A lot changes with time, when I went to UConn we were IAA and sucked. We also couldn't beat anybody in basketball. Look how far we have come.

When BC, Miami and VT left the ACC was predicted to be a super conference in football. It didn't happen. The ACC is a good conference but far from the promised land of athletic conferences. The Big East will overcome.

The Big East is dead imo. Whenever any school gets a sniff of another conference, they will be gone, TV contracts or no. It's the first one out the door at this point.

 

[toppencil]

Wow, are you 12?

You didn't respond to any of my points.

If they lose a team to the SEC, which "Big XII" team will they select and why? I told you why they wouldn't pick Kansas and Missouri. Is the ACC going to take Baylor?

They'll try to get the school with the largest football fan base they can get, Missouri is a good choice, Baylor not so much. The key factor is TV money which is driven by fans watching their team on TV. If they could, they would take Texas. Why, because they have a huge fan base.

Baylor has a small fan base, thus they cling to the Big 12 and are trying to keep Texas A&M in the Big 12. TCU has a small fan base thus they can not get in the Big 12 despite the recent defections of Nebraska and Colorado. TCU has a great program but that doesn't matter in the TV money equation. Haven't you wondered why TCU is coming to the Big East instead of joining the Big 12 or the ACC? They are still coming even after what happened with Pitt and Syracuse.

 

[toppencil]

The Big East is dead imo. Whenever any school gets a sniff of another conference, they will be gone, TV contracts or no. It's the first one out the door at this point.

If the Big East dies as a football conference, there are not enough places for everyone to go. So there will be a replacement conference consisting of what is left of the Big East football schools and some others, possibly Big 12 schools if that conference folds.

But I really don't see the 16 school conference scenarios playing out. There is no incremental money to be gained for the Big 10, SEC and the Pac 12. Plus 16 team leagues are unwieldy, just ask the Big East basketball coaches.

 

[tzznandrew]

They'll try to get the school with the largest football fan base they can get, Missouri is a good choice, Baylor not so much. The key factor is TV money which is driven by fans watching their team on TV. If they could, they would take Texas. Why, because they have a huge fan base.

Baylor has a small fan base, thus they cling to the Big 12 and are trying to keep Texas A&M in the Big 12. TCU has a small fan base thus they can not get in the Big 12 despite the recent defections of Nebraska and Colorado. TCU has a great program but that doesn't matter in the TV money equation. Haven't you wondered why TCU is coming to the Big East instead of joining the Big 12 or the ACC? They are still coming even after what happened with Pitt and Syracuse.

I get what you're saying, in part. But Texas isn't going to the ACC. Why? Money. LHN money.

TCUs small fan base has little to do with why they aren't in--Texas is blocking them.

My problem is that, in your scenario--the scenario that almost certainly guarantees UConn entrance into the ACC--your point makes no sense.

The ACC may want Missouri, but if the BXII doesn't break up (i.e. Missouri rejects the SEC), Missouri certainly wouldn't want the ACC. And Texas, if it can keep this together, isn't leaving the BXII--too much money with the LHN.

So, in your scenario, the ACC loses a school because Missouri rejects the SEC, and the ACC takes who?

 

[Murph]

I'd say our fastest track to the ACC is if the SEC does indeed take an ACC school. The, we wouldn't have to wait and be "paired" with ND or Snooki.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[toppencil]

I get what you're saying, in part. But Texas isn't going to the ACC. Why? Money. LHN money.

TCUs small fan base has little to do with why they aren't in--Texas is blocking them.

My problem is that, in your scenario--the scenario that almost certainly guarantees UConn entrance into the ACC--your point makes no sense.

The ACC may want Missouri, but if the BXII doesn't break up (i.e. Missouri rejects the SEC), Missouri certainly wouldn't want the ACC. And Texas, if it can keep this together, isn't leaving the BXII--too much money with the LHN.

So, in your scenario, the ACC loses a school because Missouri rejects the SEC, and the ACC takes who?

I never said Missouri rejects the SEC, obviously they would go to the SEC over the ACC if money is the determing factor. For argument sake let's say once Texas A&M is a sure thing the SEC gets Clemson to commit. Now the ACC has 13 teams so they want to add a team to get to 14. Who do they invite?

The best school they can get, right? Is UConn that school? They could probably have their pick of Big East schools given the current panic mode. But, there are better options available in the Big 12, in my opinion.

 

[tzznandrew]

I never said Missouri rejects the SEC, obviously they would go to the SEC over the ACC if money is the determing factor. For argument sake let's say once Texas A&M is a sure thing the SEC gets Clemson to commit. Now the ACC has 13 teams so they want to add a team to get to 14. Who do they invite?

The best school they can get, right? Is UConn that school? They could probably have their pick of Big East schools given the current panic mode. But, there are better options available in the Big 12, in my opinion.

I'd say that some of the B12 schools are theoretically better options (i.e. have better football programs and markets--Texas, OU, Mizzou), but they either aren't likely to go due to money (Texas/OU) or geographic (Texas/OU/Mizzou) reasons.

The word is that Mizzou has an offer right now from the B12. That's what I'm basing my comments on. If they have rejected the SEC, they aren't going to the ACC. I they aren't going, none of the others are (barring B12's collapse--which is still possible). Once none of the B12 schools aren't going to the ACC, you don't really have a better option Athletically, Geographically, or Academically than UConn.

Also, thank you for responding to the points more clearly.

 

[gars44]

Wow, are you 12?

You didn't respond to any of my points.

If they lose a team to the SEC, which "Big XII" team will they select and why? I told you why Kansas and Missouri are highly unlikely additions. Is the ACC going to take Baylor?

Cut the guy some slack. He made a mistake on the big 12 thing, but his other points are very good.

 

[gars44]

I never said Missouri rejects the SEC, obviously they would go to the SEC over the ACC if money is the determing factor. For argument sake let's say once Texas A&M is a sure thing the SEC gets Clemson to commit. Now the ACC has 13 teams so they want to add a team to get to 14. Who do they invite?

The best school they can get, right? Is UConn that school? They could probably have their pick of Big East schools given the current panic mode. But, there are better options available in the Big 12, in my opinion.

Texas. Only Texas. That's your salvation.

 

[tzznandrew]

Cut the guy some slack. He made a mistake on the big 12 thing, but his other points are very good.

"Keep dreaming" was his response. He's since been more cogent, but if you don't think that's annoyingly dismissive, given that I had responded to most of his points fairly, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[toppencil]

I'd say that some of the B12 schools are theoretically better options (i.e. have better football programs and markets--Texas, OU, Mizzou), but they either aren't likely to go due to money (Texas/OU) or geographic (Texas/OU/Mizzou) reasons.

The word is that Mizzou has an offer right now from the B12. That's what I'm basing my comments on. If they have rejected the SEC, they aren't going to the ACC. I they aren't going, none of the others are (barring B12's collapse--which is still possible). Once none of the B12 schools aren't going to the ACC, you don't really have a better option Athletically, Geographically, or Academically than UConn.

Also, thank you for responding to the points more clearly.

Don't get me wrong, UConn in the ACC would be great for UConn but not for the rest of the conference. Leaving doesn't sit well with my ideas of loyalty and trust. A strong conference can be built from the remaining Big East schools with the right leadership. I hope the conference gets its act together and finds a way to survive. If anyone else leaves, say West Virginia (IMO the best football program left in the league), the Big East will probably go back to its roots as a basketball conference.

The remaining Big East football schools will have to cobble together a conference - The Island of Misfit Toys. What if UConn ends up in that group? Will this new conference be part of the BCS? What kind of TV money will it get? To me it seems better to band together and try to move forward as a group rather than hope you win the lottery.

The Big East should be giving the finger to the ACC not all begging to be part of it. But that's just one man's opinion.

 

[gars44]

"Keep dreaming" was his response. He's since been more cogent, but if you don't think that's annoyingly dismissive, given that I had responded to most of his points fairly, I don't know what to tell you.

I hear you. We are all sensitive. I thought he was being animated, not trying to insult you.