ACC wants UConn if ND comes too

[UConnNick]

If TCU wasn't invited earlier, I don't see what has changed.

More importantly, unless the Big XII consists of idiots the last thing they want to do is destablize the Big EAst. That leads to the ACC moving to 16, which will lead to the Pac Ten following suit. If I'm the Big XII, I'm leaving the Big East alone. The XII already concluded they don't care about a championship game. So first choice is BYU, and second is probably Houston or Air Force.

Texas will never allow Houston to be admitted to the Big 12. They've been paranoid about legitimizing Houston's football program ever since the old days of the SWC. Houston dismantled Texas a few times during the Run-and-Shoot era of the late 80's/early 90's. The Longwhores are only up about +4 in the win column vs. the Cougars, and a couple of those wins came after Houston joined C-USA.

 

[auggie22]

There is no doubt ESPN has their hands all over the ACC offering Cuse and Pitt. I think Marinatto did no one any favors screaming out loud about taking the Big East TV contract out into the open market.

If the BE is assured its BCS bid, I agree that is our BEST option. I just don't see it. I also see the BBall schools saying, the heck with this, were only going to be left picking up the pieces again in a few years when a couple of other schools leave.

It is really sad, that the BE presidents could not look each other in the eye and swear solidarity to each other. They stood to cash in collectively. Short of that, the FB schools should have moved out as one unit and added teams as THEY saw fit, without the BBall schools influence.

i was thinking about this last night - if espn is influencing the expansion plans of the acc and other conferences, then wouldn't it be in their best interests for the big east to stay together in some weakened form? if the acc pulls rutgers and uconn in as 15,16 they are going to expect that this addition is not dilutive, so they need to be compensated well for them. if uconn/ru stay in the big east, and the big east is forced to negotiate in a weakend form, then the acc gets uconn and ru content for a fraction of what they would pay in the acc. the screw would be if uconn sets up OOC rivalry games with bc and syracuse - presumably to curry favor with the conference they covet - then espn gets the more marketable content without paying for it.

 

[gars44]

That's exactly why Marinatto needs to be fired. The minute we turned down the TV deal, he should have got all the FB schools together and ask for total commitment in the form of higher exit fees etc. Had BE raised the fee to $25M or more, CUSE and Pitt might have thought twice before they are leaving. At minimal, we would have got $40M+ out of them.

BE was in line to get a higher TV deal than the ACC. If we get something much less, someone better get sued to make up the difference.

I'm no fan of Marinatto, but this isn't his fault. He wanted to take the deal. It was Pitt leading the way to reject it. Very much sounds like double dealing on the part of Pitt. Pitt with one foot out the door leads the conference to reject a secure, stable arrangement that Marinatto wanted to accept.

 

[intlzncster]

I'm no fan of Marinatto, but this isn't his fault. He wanted to take the deal. It was Pitt leading the way to reject it. Very much sounds like double dealing on the part of Pitt. Pitt with one foot out the door leads the conference to reject a secure, stable arrangement that Marinatto wanted to accept.

Never had a problem with Pitt's choice to leave. But the way they went about it was poor. Zero transparency, duplicity, shank in the bank, double dealing/speak, zero integrity/character, unethical, etc, etc...

EDIT: should have said 'shank in the back' up there....but I like the sound and implication of 'shank in the bank'....

 

[ctchamps]

I'm not a fan of assigning blame (although I'm sometimes guilty of this transgression. darn emotions). I'm more open to listing as many of the factors surrounding an issue to better identify how things evolved.

IIRC the vote for the new contract took place when all the conferences appeared relatively calm. The primary focus at that time was to secure all the members of the BE the best possible $$ that they could arrange. The disagreement between members regarding acceptance or non acceptance of the ESPN's new offer probably had a lot of different reasons.

Reasons schools voted for the contract:

1) Comfort with the relationship with ESPN.
2) Immediate needs for monies that were more important than any future increases
3) Uncertainty a better deal could come along; the conference was at a peak with its athletics and if they went through a period of bad teams they would have less leverage to negotiate as good a package as ESPN offered.
4) The relative uncertainty amongst major conferences made for a ticking time bomb. Take the contract and make it harder for schools to decide to leave if heck breaks loose.

Reasons schools voted against the contract:

1) Universities felt the contract greatly undervalued their worth
2) The conference just had delivered a coup when they got TCU who almost played for an NC. They were extending their reach into the Texas market. These factors deserved a bigger bump.
3) They thought they were in the drivers seat being the last conference to make an extended deal and they assessed the media landscape and believed the various needs of the networks would work in the BE's favor.

What events took place beyond anyone's control or anticipation.

1) None of the major cable companies ran to subscribe to the LHN network.
2) Texas decided to show HS games to increase its content. Whether they did this to increase their recruiting efforts or to make the LHN more marketable or both we'll never know. But it started the ball rolling.
3) TA&M made an earth jarring decision to separate from the B12 and anything to do with Texas.
4) The B12 was unable to smooth relationships with TAM. Furthermore additional members including Texas and Oklahoma were exploring exit strategies.
5) Three ACC schools were found to have NCAA violations. I believe GT preceded these events but NC and Miami came to light around these events. More than likely FSU was contemplating an exit strategy.
6) WV went through its own set of turmoil with its football coach and its AD. Oliver Luck is hired just before the TA&M explosion, an AD without relationships to other BE AD's.
7) UConn makes an agreement with its long term AD Jeff Hathaway to end the relationship and hires interim AD Paul Pendergast.
8) Oliver Luck expresses WV's best interests are aligned with conferences other than the BE. Was this the consensus of the University, was he trying to make a name for himself and shooting from the hip, or was he a new guy who didn't have much time to get to know other AD's and that led him to express this viewpoint publicly, we'll never know. But that was the final catalyst for:

University of Pittsburgh and Syracuse University to make their decision to exit the BE.

In sum a lot of plausible and rational difference existed which prevented the new contract to be signed with ESPN, a contract that if signed could have reduced risks for BE football members wanting to move on. Furthermore a lot of sudden unexpected and jarring events took place that are hard to predict and prepare for. And they all aligned to create the perfect storm to end the BE conference alliance. More events will happen. Now that everyone is hyper alert we have accounted for the most likely scenarios. But there will most likely be a few unexpected twists that develop which very few of us are predicting. I'm hoping it is UConn to the B!G.

 

[gabect]

But that was the final catalyst for:

University of Pittsburgh and Syracuse University to make their decision to exit the BE.

In sum a lot of plausible and rational difference existed which prevented the new contract to be signed with ESPN, a contract that if signed could have reduced risks for BE football members wanting to move on. Furthermore a lot of sudden unexpected and jarring events took place that are hard to predict and prepare for. And they all aligned to create the perfect storm to end the BE conference alliance. More events will happen. Now that everyone is hyper alert we have accounted for the most likely scenarios. But there will most likely be a few unexpected twists that develop which very few of us are predicting. I'm hoping it is UConn to the B!G.

Nice analysis. There is no doubt this wasn't an overnight decision - it was a variety of factors building up over time, the ones you mentioned plus the Villanova mess, I think that created a rift as well. I also hope we go to the B1G when the dust settles. The ACC is great for rivalries/re-uniting the old BigEast and for travel but the B1G would benefit our football program more. We'll always be competitive in basketball.

 

[ctchamps]

Nice analysis. There is no doubt this wasn't an overnight decision - it was a variety of factors building up over time, the ones you mentioned plus the Villanova mess, I think that created a rift as well. I also hope we go to the B1G when the dust settles. The ACC is great for rivalries/re-uniting the old BigEast and for travel but the B1G would benefit our football program more. We'll always be competitive in basketball.

I've always been a UConn fan. I'm a nut men's bb fan. I went to more MM than I should admit. Not cool to be a middle aged gray haired and wrinkled person amongst so many physically and attractive youngsters. But I didn't care. I live in ACC territory now. I could get to games if UConn joins the ACC. So if I look at this thing from a personal perspective, I want UConn to be in the ACC. But I don't think would be the best outcome for UConn, not only for football, but the University as a whole. I think the ACC will be BE II down the road. So I'm hoping for the B!G in spite of the loss of BB prestige. No matter which way this thing heads, I want to be wrong about any of my premises that think UConn could have trouble. I've enjoyed eating crow on enough things to know my opinions have limitations.

 

[gabect]

Thanks for sharing, I bet you'd be one of the younger guys with the WBB crowd. If we join the B1G they might actually live up to their expectations in basketball one day. Other than Ohio St. and Oden that one year I always consistently bet against them in my brackets as they'd be some of the most overrated teams.

 

[ctchamps]

Thanks for sharing, I bet you'd be one of the younger guys with the WBB crowd. If we join the B1G they might actually live up to their expectations in basketball one day. Other than Ohio St. and Oden that one year I always consistently bet against them in my brackets as they'd be some of the most overrated teams.

Lol. I've enjoyed some of their games as well.

 

[toppencil]

Sorry to burst all your bubbles but UConn football is a tiny tiny little minnow in the college football world. Nobody will be asking them to join their conference anytime soon. The Big 10(12)?! you are delusional. They have a slim chance at the ACC if the SEC raids the ACC first. Right now, that looks unlikely.

UConn should come down from delusional mountain and show some loyalty to the Big East. Help rebuild it, increase its fan base and make it a stronger football conference. For the foreseable future Big East football will struggle to maintain its AQ status.

And no, basketball, soccer and all the other quality sports teams UConn fields don't matter; it's all about football. Basketball is huge in the northeast but relatively unimportant in the rest of the country.

 

[ctchamps]

toppencil:

If you read my post closely I make the claim that I'm a Uconn fan with a bb lean. But I'm advocating against my personal preference.

I give the odds of getting into the B!G as less than 1%. Maybe that is delusional in your book but until events play out anything is possible even if unlikely. Look at that run this past season for the men's bb team. It shouldn't have happened and not in the way it happened. But it did and I'm still pinching myself.

As far as the ACC I give it a better than even odds UConn lands there. In another thread I stated 80.23% but I was just being cute.

If you are correct and the invites don't appear, then UConn should and will work hard to make the best of a bad situation. I feel your pain. It took me two days to recover after hearing Pitt and Cuse, two of the most relevant men's bb teams were heading to the ACC. But I'm not going to let my own personal emotions dictate outcomes.

You might be aware of Pavlovs conditioning. The BE has suffered not one but two major defections in a short time frame. The remaining members are gun shy. I can't blame them.

So time will tell who is right and who is wrong. But that wouldn't make the person amongst us who guessed wrong delusional, nor would it make the people who guessed correctly prophetic. It would makes events confluent with our predictions or contrary to our predictions.

 

[gars44]

Sorry to burst all your bubbles but UConn football is a tiny tiny little minnow in the college football world. Nobody will be asking them to join their conference anytime soon. The Big 10(12)?! you are delusional. They have a slim chance at the ACC if the SEC raids the ACC first. Right now, that looks unlikely.

UConn should come down from delusional mountain and show some loyalty to the Big East. Help rebuild it, increase its fan base and make it a stronger football conference. For the foreseable future Big East football will struggle to maintain its AQ status.

And no, basketball, soccer and all the other quality sports teams UConn fields don't matter; it's all about football. Basketball is huge in the northeast but relatively unimportant in the rest of the country.

Yeah, I agree, but how do you do that? How do you keep this league together? RU wants out, has been working behind the scenes just as hard as Pitt and Syracuse have been for the past few years. CT now wants out. Not before this latest debacle. Louisville, WVA, Cincy, literally everyone is taking the line "we'll monitor the landscape and do what's best for our student athletes." This means everyone is out of here at the first opportunity. I agree that we have to patch something together, but no one is making any promises. Not even your school.

 

[toppencil]

toppencil:

If you read my post closely I make the claim that I'm a Uconn fan with a bb lean. But I'm advocating against my personal preference.

I give the odds of getting into the B!G as less than 1%. Maybe that is delusional in your book but until events play out anything is possible even if unlikely. Look at that run this past season for the men's bb team. It shouldn't have happened and not in the way it happened. But it did and I'm still pinching myself.

As far as the ACC I give it a better than even odds UConn lands there. In another thread I stated 80.23% but I was just being cute.

If you are correct and the invites don't appear, then UConn should and will work hard to make the best of a bad situation. I feel your pain. It took me two days to recover after hearing Pitt and Cuse, two of the most relevant men's bb teams were heading to the ACC. But I'm not going to let my own personal emotions dictate outcomes.

You might be aware of Pavlovs conditioning. The BE has suffered not one but two major defections in a short time frame. The remaining members are gun shy. I can't blame them.

So time will tell who is right and who is wrong. But that wouldn't make the person amongst us who guessed wrong delusional, nor would it make the people who guessed correctly prophetic. It would makes events confluent with our predictions or contrary to our predictions.

I suggest the following article to anyone who thinks UConn football is valuable to another conference. Adding UConn won't bring enough incremental TV money to warrant an invite. It's all a numbers game.
http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/

 

[gars44]

bl corrected me as I showed one post before you wrote this. Didn't know about the top 8 ranking or improved bowl get. All this points to ND staying independent.

ND stays independent only if they have CONFERENCE for the rest of their athletic program. ND football will always be fine as an independent. It's the rest of the sports.

 

[toppencil]

Yeah, I agree, but how do you do that? How do you keep this league together? RU wants out, has been working behind the scenes just as hard as Pitt and Syracuse have been for the past few years. CT now wants out. Not before this latest debacle. Louisville, WVA, Cincy, literally everyone is taking the line "we'll monitor the landscape and do what's best for our student athletes." This means everyone is out of here at the first opportunity. I agree that we have to patch something together, but no one is making any promises. Not even your school.

Others on this site have noted various schools that will have to be added. You really can't replace Syracuse and Pitt. So you have to look for programs with long term potential. Army and Navy as football only members makes sense to me, you need bodies right now and Navy isn't bad. I would strongly consider UCF even though USF is 90 miles away. Both of these Florida programs will be monsters in the future. Villanova needs to move up. And while it will surely ruffle some UConn feathers I would try to add UMass, they actually have a good football team and it would piss off BC. Another possible option is Memphis.

While there is a lot of fear that more schools are moving, I don't agree. The Big 10 is done, the Pac 12 is done, and the SEC might add one more school. If someone from the ACC jumps to the SEC they will probably look to the Big 12 for a replacement. The wild cards in all this is Notre Dame and Texas, all conferences will seriously consider them because of their huge fan bases.

As for the Big East, get to 12 football schools, make it hard to leave (see ACC $20 million buy out clause) and slowly build your brand with quality victories. Here's hoping West Virginia beats LSU tonight. Syracuse and Pitt were doing nothing in that department. TCU should help there soon.

 

[tzznandrew]

If someone from the ACC jumps to the SEC they will probably look to the Big 12 for a replacement.

In my opinion, you lost what little shreds of credibility you had with this statement. If the SEC poaches FSU or VT, you think the ACC will take who, Mizzou? Kansas?

If the BXII is sticking together, Kansas won't be able to get away from KState. The only way that was happening is if Conference Armageddon happened.

Missouri is, slightly, possible, but they are so far away from everybody in the ACC they would be more isolated that BC was. They're roughly 800 miles away from their closest competitors (Pitt/VT). We saw how well that worked out for BC--and BC was only 400 miles from their closest competitors. And that's a nightmare for their non-revenue sports. Plus, Missouri will only go to the B1G, or, if that doesn't work, the SEC if it has to.

If an ACC school leaves, and neither Texas or ND jumps to the ACC (and they won't), the ACC will turn to UConn, or, perhaps, Rutgers. You might even be able to have an argument for WVU (better football), but their Academics aren't strong enough.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Basketball is huge in the northeast but relatively unimportant in the rest of the country.

Exactly how much is Kentucky paying John Calipari?
What is Texas paying Rick Barnes?
How about Kansas and Bill Self?
How large is Billy Donovan's contract at Florida?
What about Sean Miller at Arizona, what are they paying him?

If you believe those schools are in the northeast you need to work on your understanding of geography. If not, your above statement is dead wrong.

 

[tzznandrew]

Exactly how much is Kentucky paying John Calipari?
What is Texas paying Rick Barnes?
How about Kansas and Bill Self?
How large is Billy Donovan's contract at Florida?
What about Sean Miller at Arizona, what are they paying him?

If you believe those schools are in the northeast you need to work on your understanding of geography. If not, your above statement is dead wrong.

What about Indiana? I'm pretty sure Hoosiers wasn't filmed in Springfield, MA.

 

[toppencil]

In my opinion, you lost what little shreds of credibility you had with this statement. If the SEC poaches FSU or VT, you think the ACC will take who, Mizzou? Kansas?

If the BXII is sticking together, Kansas won't be able to get away from KState. The only way that was happening is if Conference Armageddon happened.

Missouri is, slightly, possible, but they are so far away from everybody in the ACC they would be more isolated that BC was. They're roughly 800 miles away from their closest competitors (Pitt/VT). We saw how well that worked out for BC--and BC was only 400 miles from their closest competitors. And that's a nightmare for their non-revenue sports. Plus, Missouri will only go to the B1G, or, if that doesn't work, the SEC if it has to.

If an ACC school leaves, and neither Texas or ND jumps to the ACC (and they won't), the ACC will turn to UConn, or, perhaps, Rutgers. You might even be able to have an argument for WVU (better football), but their Academics aren't strong enough.

Keep dreaming.

 

[toppencil]

Exactly how much is Kentucky paying John Calipari?
What is Texas paying Rick Barnes?
How about Kansas and Bill Self?
How large is Billy Donovan's contract at Florida?
What about Sean Miller at Arizona, what are they paying him?

If you believe those schools are in the northeast you need to work on your understanding of geography. If not, your above statement is dead wrong.

Nope just that football drives all the other conferences including the ACC, the only exception is the Big East. That may change if the league splits up into basketball only schools and the football schools.

 

[tzznandrew]

Keep dreaming.

Wow, are you 12?

You didn't respond to any of my points.

If they lose a team to the SEC, which "Big XII" team will they select and why? I told you why Kansas and Missouri are highly unlikely additions. Is the ACC going to take Baylor?

 

[toppencil]

The Huskies are just getting started in big time football. Give it some more time. Ten years from now the Huskies may have the leverage to make a move to a stronger conference. Or maybe by then the Big East will be a stronger football conference, maybe strong enough to get Notre Dame to join. A lot changes with time, when I went to UConn we were IAA and sucked. We also couldn't beat anybody in basketball. Look how far we have come.

When BC, Miami and VT left the ACC was predicted to be a super conference in football. It didn't happen. The ACC is a good conference but far from the promised land of athletic conferences. The Big East will overcome.

 

[tzznandrew]

I suggest the following article to anyone who thinks UConn football is valuable to another conference. Adding UConn won't bring enough incremental TV money to warrant an invite. It's all a numbers game.
http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/

The actual stats suggests that the ACC should take Rutgers. While I like Nate Silver, there have been numerous debunkings of his methodology on this. But say take this to be true--it certainly doesn't argue you shouldn't take UConn. The Hartford/New Haven market is a top 35 market, and add in the gains the ACC can get in the NYC market with Rutgers and UConn (1 and 4 in that market) and you're looking good.

 

[intlzncster]

The Huskies are just getting started in big time football. Give it some more time. Ten years from now the Huskies may have the leverage to make a move to a stronger conference. Or maybe by then the Big East will be a stronger football conference, maybe strong enough to get Notre Dame to join. A lot changes with time, when I went to UConn we were IAA and sucked. We also couldn't beat anybody in basketball. Look how far we have come.

When BC, Miami and VT left the ACC was predicted to be a super conference in football. It didn't happen. The ACC is a good conference but far from the promised land of athletic conferences. The Big East will overcome.

The Big East is dead imo. Whenever any school gets a sniff of another conference, they will be gone, TV contracts or no. It's the first one out the door at this point.

 

[toppencil]

Wow, are you 12?

You didn't respond to any of my points.

If they lose a team to the SEC, which "Big XII" team will they select and why? I told you why they wouldn't pick Kansas and Missouri. Is the ACC going to take Baylor?

They'll try to get the school with the largest football fan base they can get, Missouri is a good choice, Baylor not so much. The key factor is TV money which is driven by fans watching their team on TV. If they could, they would take Texas. Why, because they have a huge fan base.

Baylor has a small fan base, thus they cling to the Big 12 and are trying to keep Texas A&M in the Big 12. TCU has a small fan base thus they can not get in the Big 12 despite the recent defections of Nebraska and Colorado. TCU has a great program but that doesn't matter in the TV money equation. Haven't you wondered why TCU is coming to the Big East instead of joining the Big 12 or the ACC? They are still coming even after what happened with Pitt and Syracuse.

 

[toppencil]

The Big East is dead imo. Whenever any school gets a sniff of another conference, they will be gone, TV contracts or no. It's the first one out the door at this point.

If the Big East dies as a football conference, there are not enough places for everyone to go. So there will be a replacement conference consisting of what is left of the Big East football schools and some others, possibly Big 12 schools if that conference folds.

But I really don't see the 16 school conference scenarios playing out. There is no incremental money to be gained for the Big 10, SEC and the Pac 12. Plus 16 team leagues are unwieldy, just ask the Big East basketball coaches.

 

[tzznandrew]

They'll try to get the school with the largest football fan base they can get, Missouri is a good choice, Baylor not so much. The key factor is TV money which is driven by fans watching their team on TV. If they could, they would take Texas. Why, because they have a huge fan base.

Baylor has a small fan base, thus they cling to the Big 12 and are trying to keep Texas A&M in the Big 12. TCU has a small fan base thus they can not get in the Big 12 despite the recent defections of Nebraska and Colorado. TCU has a great program but that doesn't matter in the TV money equation. Haven't you wondered why TCU is coming to the Big East instead of joining the Big 12 or the ACC? They are still coming even after what happened with Pitt and Syracuse.

I get what you're saying, in part. But Texas isn't going to the ACC. Why? Money. LHN money.

TCUs small fan base has little to do with why they aren't in--Texas is blocking them.

My problem is that, in your scenario--the scenario that almost certainly guarantees UConn entrance into the ACC--your point makes no sense.

The ACC may want Missouri, but if the BXII doesn't break up (i.e. Missouri rejects the SEC), Missouri certainly wouldn't want the ACC. And Texas, if it can keep this together, isn't leaving the BXII--too much money with the LHN.

So, in your scenario, the ACC loses a school because Missouri rejects the SEC, and the ACC takes who?

 

[Murph]

I'd say our fastest track to the ACC is if the SEC does indeed take an ACC school. The, we wouldn't have to wait and be "paired" with ND or Snooki.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[toppencil]

I get what you're saying, in part. But Texas isn't going to the ACC. Why? Money. LHN money.

TCUs small fan base has little to do with why they aren't in--Texas is blocking them.

My problem is that, in your scenario--the scenario that almost certainly guarantees UConn entrance into the ACC--your point makes no sense.

The ACC may want Missouri, but if the BXII doesn't break up (i.e. Missouri rejects the SEC), Missouri certainly wouldn't want the ACC. And Texas, if it can keep this together, isn't leaving the BXII--too much money with the LHN.

So, in your scenario, the ACC loses a school because Missouri rejects the SEC, and the ACC takes who?

I never said Missouri rejects the SEC, obviously they would go to the SEC over the ACC if money is the determing factor. For argument sake let's say once Texas A&M is a sure thing the SEC gets Clemson to commit. Now the ACC has 13 teams so they want to add a team to get to 14. Who do they invite?

The best school they can get, right? Is UConn that school? They could probably have their pick of Big East schools given the current panic mode. But, there are better options available in the Big 12, in my opinion.

 

[tzznandrew]

I never said Missouri rejects the SEC, obviously they would go to the SEC over the ACC if money is the determing factor. For argument sake let's say once Texas A&M is a sure thing the SEC gets Clemson to commit. Now the ACC has 13 teams so they want to add a team to get to 14. Who do they invite?

The best school they can get, right? Is UConn that school? They could probably have their pick of Big East schools given the current panic mode. But, there are better options available in the Big 12, in my opinion.

I'd say that some of the B12 schools are theoretically better options (i.e. have better football programs and markets--Texas, OU, Mizzou), but they either aren't likely to go due to money (Texas/OU) or geographic (Texas/OU/Mizzou) reasons.

The word is that Mizzou has an offer right now from the B12. That's what I'm basing my comments on. If they have rejected the SEC, they aren't going to the ACC. I they aren't going, none of the others are (barring B12's collapse--which is still possible). Once none of the B12 schools aren't going to the ACC, you don't really have a better option Athletically, Geographically, or Academically than UConn.

Also, thank you for responding to the points more clearly.