ACC Regular season, 2023 | Page 4 | The Boneyard

ACC Regular season, 2023

Holy smokes. Back in December when Louisville lost to Middle Tennessee State and folks were wondering if it was time to panic about Louisville and their program. I was like, "Nah. They will be fine. They will run off 10 wins in a row and nobody will say anything" Well. Louisville managed to win six or seven in a row and then dropped a few and then won a few. After today's loss (NC State) Louisville looking at seven losses and possibly a few more. They have UNC and two games against Notre Dame. Then the ACC tournament. Yikes!
 
I really hate that Saniya Rivers transferred.

She's such a Dawn Staley type player on the floor. Not sure the issue that lead to her heading out.

I'm glad to see she is coming on in Raleigh very nicely.
 
JellyBean said:
Holy smokes. Back in December when Louisville lost to Middle Tennessee State and folks were wondering if it was time to panic about Louisville and their program. I was like, "Nah. They will be fine. They will run off 10 wins in a row and nobody will say anything" Well. Louisville managed to win six or seven in a row and then dropped a few and then won a few. After today's loss (NC State) Louisville looking at seven losses and possibly a few more. They have UNC and two games against Notre Dame. Then the ACC tournament. Yikes!
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ACC is pretty balanced with dangerous players.

Reminds me of the men's side in the mid 90s .
 
nwhoopfan said:
I'll give NC State some credit for the D in Q4, but that was mostly on Louisville. One of the worst quarters I've ever seen. Just atrocious. Hailey Van Lith just couldn't find the bottom of the net all game. Carr started hot but faded.
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Hailey Van Lith was not feeling well. She came out for pre-game warmups, took a few shots and then sat on the bench by herself for about five minutes. Didn't have her usual bounce. She and her teammates missed a conservatively-estimated 10 layups, several of them wide-open and uncontested.

If you told me beforehand that Louisville would hold NC State to 63 points I'd say we get the win. Not today.
 
LETTERL said:
Outstanding defensive effort from NC State today in their 63-51 win at Louisville. The Wolfpack Women held Louisville without a FG for a 12-minute stretch from the 3rd quarter through most of the 4th quarter, and extended a 1-point 4th quarter lead.

For the game, Louisville shot 30.6% on 20 of 66 from the field. NC State was 23 of 50.

So proud of the Wolfpack Women! Now, they get a week off to prepare for Notre Dame.
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Rivers is gonna be a star. If she ever improves her deep shot and FT's, it won't be fair.

I assume Baldwin is gone for the season?
 
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triaddukefan said:
I assume Baldwin is gone for the season?
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Nope. MRI showed no structural damage. She'll be back, maybe not for Notre Dame next Sunday but the absence won't be as long as we all feared.

I was amazed at that because when she emerged from the locker room after the injury, her whole leg was heavily bandaged.
 
KY Card Fan said:
Hailey Van Lith and her teammates missed a conservatively-estimated 10 layups, several of them wide-open and uncontested.
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That would definitely be a conservative estimate. It was way more than that. Shots that rolled around the rim before falling off, going over the basket, nicking the rim. Just a tremendous number of missed bunnies.

Might have been a different outcome if Hailey Van Lith saw limited minutes or didn't play at all, if she was sick. I didn't know she was sick as the game unfolded but watching it live, I did get the impression that she just wasn't her usual self.
 
I watched a replay of the UVa-FSU game and was stunned by one particular intentional foul call toward the end. This was Men’s-Soccer level theater: an FSU player manufactures a foul, falls to the floor, feigns injury, grabs the Virginia player’s foot and tries to trip her, and when the Virginia player pulls her leg free she’s called for a “fighting foul.”

We’ve seen this sort of behavior more than a few times from FSU, which suggests they’re being coached to behave like this. But the icing on the cake comes a few minutes later, after the refs confer and announce their call leading to an ejection, the FSU player then taunts the Virginia player.

I hope such incidents are reviewed at some point and a rule change is made to allow the refs to penalize this sort of theater. In this case, I’d think the FSU player should have been ejected, as well as the FSU coach.
 
Bone Dog said:
I watched a replay of the UVa-FSU game and was stunned by one particular intentional foul call toward the end. This was Men’s-Soccer level theater: an FSU player manufactures a foul, falls to the floor, feigns injury, grabs the Virginia player’s foot and tries to trip her, and when the Virginia player pulls her leg free she’s called for a “fighting foul.”

We’ve seen this sort of behavior more than a few times from FSU, which suggests they’re being coached to behave like this. But the icing on the cake comes a few minutes later, after the refs confer and announce their call leading to an ejection, the FSU player then taunts the Virginia player.

I hope such incidents are reviewed at some point and a rule change is made to allow the refs to penalize this sort of theater. In this case, I’d think the FSU player should have been ejected, as well as the FSU coach.
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"Pulled her leg free"? Disagree with the interpretation however Brunelle being suspended for one game was a surprise to me for that. Personally, had a foul been called on the initial contact, and there was a lot, I don't think it would have gotten to that point.
 
cancontent said:
"Pulled her leg free"? Disagree with the interpretation however Brunelle being suspended for one game was a surprise to me for that. Personally, had a foul been called on the initial contact, and there was a lot, I don't think it would have gotten to that point.
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There’s plenty of room for alternative interpretations. Mine is in part shaped by the taunting after the ejection is announced. The refs couldn’t have taken that into account since it’s after the fact they were focused on. But it seems to me to reveal the true character of the entire episode. In effect. The mask slipped.

Flop, then hold onto the leg so she must yank it away — behold, how to manufacture the illusion of a “fighting foul.” Given the success of this one, I expect we’ll see more episodes just like it.
 
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Bone Dog said:
There’s plenty of room for alternative interpretations. Mine is in part shaped by the taunting after the ejection is announced. The refs couldn’t have taken that into account since it’s after the fact they were focused on. But it seems to me to reveal the true character of the entire episode. In effect. The mask slipped.

Flop, then hold onto the leg so she must yank it away — behold, how to manufacture the illusion of a “fighting foul.” Given the success of this one, I expect we’ll see more episodes just like it.
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I've only seen the clip of the action, not the players reaction to the ejection. Unfortunately, the clip provided doesn't offer enough to provide better context. It still looks a kick to me because her leg was free before it extended again and hit the player.

My concern was the fracas that occurred could have been avoided had the ref called a foul when the contact between Brunelle and the other player happened. It could have been a foul either way. I don't see it as a flop however.
 
cancontent said:
I've only seen the clip of the action, not the players reaction to the ejection. Unfortunately, the clip provided doesn't offer enough to provide better context. It still looks a kick to me because her leg was free before it extended again and hit the player.

My concern was the fracas that occurred could have been avoided had the ref called a foul when the contact between Brunelle and the other player happened. It could have been a foul either way. I don't see it as a flop however.
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I discount the kick because it seemed feeble for something intentional. It wasn’t a moving screen, so no foul there. And I see the initial contact as less than solid. That’s why I compared it to Men’s Soccer “injuries.” She curls up on the floor wailing as if an internal organ had been ruptured, and pops up a moment later only to mock her victim when the decision is rendered. This player has a history of this sort of thing, and I wish refs were allowed to take this into account.
 
Bone Dog said:
I discount the kick because it seemed feeble for something intentional. It wasn’t a moving screen, so no foul there. And I see the initial contact as less than solid. That’s why I compared it to Men’s Soccer “injuries.” She curls up on the floor wailing as if an internal organ had been ruptured, and pops up a moment later only to mock her victim when the decision is rendered. This player has a history of this sort of thing, and I wish refs were allowed to take this into account.
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The intentional foul rule has a broad description, which includes unnecessary contact/action. That's the category I think it falls under. Again, the clip doesn't show the review or how how the players react after the call, so I can't speculate whether she was acting or not. The kick looks like it made contact with her between the legs and it doesn't matter if it's a woman or man, that can be painful.
 
cancontent said:
The intentional foul rule has a broad description, which includes unnecessary contact/action. That's the category I think it falls under. Again, the clip doesn't show the review or how how the players react after the call, so I can't speculate whether she was acting or not. The kick looks like it made contact with her between the legs and it doesn't matter if it's a woman or man, that can be painful.
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I didn’t see a clip. I watched the game. That’s what I saw.
 
Bone Dog said:
I didn’t see a clip. I watched the game. That’s what I saw.
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Understood and unfortunately I wasn't able to watch it. What's been posted on social media and this thread is what I'm basing my responses on. We disagree on whether the kick should have been deemed an intentional foul, however I believe we both agree that Brunelle shouldn't have been ejected or suspended for it.

There have been at least 3 examples this past week where intentional fouls were called that I recall.

1) Iowa-Michigan State: Clark was assessed with an intentional for an elbow. Most believe it was inadvertent. She wasn't ejected or suspended for the action.

2) UNC-Duke: Taylor and Todd-Williams got tangled up and kicked each other. Their actions looked intentional and both were assessed with intentional fouls. Neither player was ejected or suspended.

3) FSU-Virgina: This situation should have been handled like the other two games. Where we disagree on is the kick, however there was a lot more contact that could have prompted a foul call. For example, when the FSU player was on the ground and their legs were tied you, that could have been called a trip.

The suspension doesn't make sense and was over the top. Regardless of how one believes the FSU player reacted or acted, that should not have happened.
 
cancontent said:
Understood and unfortunately I wasn't able to watch it. What's been posted on social media and this thread is what I'm basing my responses on. We disagree on whether the kick should have been deemed an intentional foul, however I believe we both agree that Brunelle shouldn't have been ejected or suspended for it.

There have been at least 3 examples this past week where intentional fouls were called that I recall.

1) Iowa-Michigan State: Clark was assessed with an intentional for an elbow. Most believe it was inadvertent. She wasn't ejected or suspended for the action.

2) UNC-Duke: Taylor and Todd-Williams got tangled up and kicked each other. Their actions looked intentional and both were assessed with intentional fouls. Neither player was ejected or suspended.

3) FSU-Virgina: This situation should have been handled like the other two games. Where we disagree on is the kick, however there was a lot more contact that could have prompted a foul call. For example, when the FSU player was on the ground and their legs were tied you, that could have been called a trip.

The suspension doesn't make sense and was over the top. Regardless of how one believes the FSU player reacted or acted, that should not have happened.
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I may also be reading too much into this one incident. But here's why: this same FSU player attempted something similar when we played them, trying to "entrap" Nika in an intentional foul. At least, that's how I saw it. The video from that game seemed pretty clear to me -- a fake head-snap after the two of them were already separated. And in two other games, similar hijinks occurred involving this player, and finally the UVa game, which seemed both the most extreme incident, and one in which the refs reacted in the most extreme way -- and I think got the call exactly backwards. It looks like some sort of escalation, as the profilers on police shows like to say about serial offenders.
 
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Bone Dog said:
I may also be reading too much into this one incident. But here's why: this same FSU player attempted something similar when we played them, trying to "entrap" Nika in an intentional foul. At least, that's how I saw it. The video from that game seemed pretty clear to me -- a fake head-snap after the two of them were already separated. And in two other games, similar hijinks occurred involving this player, and finally the UVa game, which seemed both the most extreme incident, and one in which the refs reacted in the most extreme way -- and I think got the call exactly backwards. It looks like some sort of escalation, as the profilers on police shows like to say about serial offenders.
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Totally understand that perspective. I'm not of a fan of it either. Not sure how to fix the problem either. The women's game doesn't have the flopping rule in place which doesn't make sense. Would these examples you noted fall into this category if the rule existed? Just a random musing as we'll never know until it is up for discussion at the NCAA.
 
Notre Dame, Duke, UNC, Miami, Syracuse, Georgia Tech and...drum roll please...Wake Forest were winners in the ACC contests tonight. Wake's 68-57 win over Louisville marked the first time the Demon Deacons had ever beaten Louisville in 10 tries. NC State was idle.

Teams have either 8 or 9 games left in the conference season. Duke, Notre Dame, Florida State and Miami now own the top 4 positions in the conference standings, with UNC, Louisville, Virginia Tech and NC State within a game of that 4th-place position and more importantly, the precious double-bye in the ACCT, which should be outstanding this year.
 
Well, at the midway point Notre Dame and Duke look to have established themselves as the clear favorites in the league. Their upcoming duel may well decide the regular-season title. I predict each will lose one more game beyond the outcome of that one so it’ll probably be a matter of who has 2 losses vs. 3.

Other teams aren’t out of it yet but these two just look like they’re on a different level. ’The SEC and Big East have both been much maligned but IMO the ACC has disappointed this year. NC State, North Carolina, Virginia Tech, and Louisville (especially Louisville!) have played below their talent level and seem to lack the intensity to compete. I thought this conference would be a race to the end but I’d be surprised if one or both of ND and Duke aren’t the winner(s).
 
GoChips20 said:
Other teams aren’t out of it yet but these two just look like they’re on a different level. ’The SEC and Big East have both been much maligned but IMO the ACC has disappointed this year. NC State, North Carolina, Virginia Tech, and Louisville (especially Louisville!) have played below their talent level and seem to lack the intensity to compete. I thought this conference would be a race to the end but I’d be surprised if one or both of ND and Duke aren’t the winner(s).
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For NC State, it has taken a while for the ladies to get the message about defense. During their swoon, they were giving up 73 points a game, 79 in their loss to Boston College (which has since lost 5 straight) and 91 to Florida State.

In the last three games, NC State has given up 56 (in a loss to UNC), 61 (win over Miami) and 51 (win at Louisville). If the defensive effort had been there when the Pack was losing 4 of 6, the standings may be different right now. That, however, can't be undone.

It's too early to say the race is over. NC State still has games left against every team ahead of them except Miami and FSU...so they will get a chance to get back into the mix, although it would require a total meltdown from Duke and Notre Dame for either of those teams to fall out of the top positions. UNC still has a rematches with VaTech and Duke. Duke has a tough finish, facing UNC, VaTech and NC State in 3 of its final four games.
 
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Ladeeeeda said:
I wont be surprised if Duke drops 3-4 more before tourney time. The schedule is just really tough!
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My money is on ND to win the regular season, regardless of if they defeat Duke or not. Our schedule is brutal, while their toughest games after Sunday are two vs Louisville and I guess at Boston College.
 
Not WBB related, but a Wake Forest and ACC legend passed away yesterday. Amazing fact that he was on the national broadcast for every Final Four from 1975-2008. Old school ACC fans know him more for the Sail with the Pilot days. To me, he was the best cbb analyst of all time. R.I.P.

 
Hats off to Notre Dame, they absolutely dominated the Seminoles in the second half yesterday. Lowest point total of the year and maybe years for the Noles.
 
triaddukefan said:
My money is on ND to win the regular season, regardless of if they defeat Duke or not. Our schedule is brutal, while their toughest games after Sunday are two vs Louisville and I guess at Boston College.
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I think one of 4 teams could win the ACC tourney.
 
triaddukefan said:
Not WBB related, but a Wake Forest and ACC legend passed away yesterday. Amazing fact that he was on the national broadcast for every Final Four from 1975-2008. Old school ACC fans know him more for the Sail with the Pilot days. To me, he was the best cbb analyst of all time. R.I.P.

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Jim Thacker and Billy Packer. Back in the very early days of televised ACC games, first with C.D. Chesley and then Raycom, before Packer went national. When Packer and Thacker showed up to call your games, you knew it was a big deal!
 
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