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Not really. The Big XII would need to worry more about that.
ACC Basketball a Dud
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Not really. The Big XII would need to worry more about that.
While yes, the Big XII would have to worry, at the end of the day, if those two schools are willing to move conferences, any conference that doesn't get them is the loser in this situation.
Good schools, flagship level schools, with top flight basketball. Concentrating that many basketball powers and giving them access to NYC that no other conference would have would effectively drown out any hope for the ACC to penetrate that market.
Good schools, flagship level schools, with top flight basketball. Concentrating that many basketball powers and giving them access to NYC that no other conference would have would effectively drown out any hope for the ACC to penetrate that market.
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Calling UCONN and Kentucky Cinderellas is just laughable. Next you gonna tell us with a straight face that Duke deserves a #2 seed while UCONN deserves a #7 seed. Last I checked, we are still UCONN and they are still Kentucky.
BTW, UVA is the weakest #1 seed and no one would have a problem putting NOVA there and you guys as a #2. If not for the committee filled with ACCholes, the bracket might make a little more sense. ACC got WAY over seeded this tournament and they still sucked.
For the record, I got nothing against UVA, Duke, UNC and Wake. I appreciate the fact those schools have the foresight to want UCONN in the ACC over UL. However, it does not change the reality where ACC get over hyped yearly and have not produced anything on the court in the while outside UNC.
Stimp,
You refer to UConn and Kentucky as "Cinderellas". Between them they have won 2 of the last 3 titles. Since 1998 they have appeared in 9 final fours and won 5 championships. Not exactly the M.O. of a "Cinderella". Maybe in this year's tournament, not much was expected. But in UConn's and Kentucky's case they have been there before and it showed. I don't know if they will go a step further, but UConn is a team that can play "money ball". Love him or hate him, Calhoun developed a program with a little edge and Ollie has followed up nicely. You folks in the ACC would have been well served if you took UConn when you could have. Now, while we would do anything to get out of the AAC, most of us hope we go to the B1G. The B1G taking Rutgers was only based on the perceived benefit in the NYC metro area and their AAU status. Maybe it was bad decision making, but the ACC leaving UConn behind and taking the 4 BE teams it did was worse.
Well in the ACC's defense, adding Syracuse did give them the Toronto market.
But on a more serious note, I'm thinking part of this may be due to UCONN being a public flagship school. Maybe the smaller school's that have disproportionate amounts of power to what they probably should have thought that adding a school like UCONN would shake up the balance of power too much.
But on a more serious note, I'm thinking part of this may be due to UCONN being a public flagship school. Maybe the smaller school's that have disproportionate amounts of power to what they probably should have thought that adding a school like UCONN would shake up the balance of power too much.
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You're whistling past the graveyard.
UConn, Kansas, Michigan, Michigan St., Maryland, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Indiana would bury you guys. Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Louisville would be your 4 going against those 8. NC State, and then I'll be generous and include Pitt and even Virginia against Illinois, Purdue, Iowa, Minnesota.
Seriously, it boggles my mind that you don't see this.
As usual, the ACC receives easy seeding and doesn't live up to it. You guys also chose to invite the two most underachieving basketball teams relative to talent that the BE had to offer. Syracuse and Pitt make a habit of bowing out during the first weekend.
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The Big12 would still be sending out Texas and Oklahoma to win football games. And that's really all they care about.
It's the ACC with its perennial horrid football (until this year) that has to worry about its #1 one claim to fame (best basketball conference ever) being ripped to shreds by the B1G.
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Baloney, esp on the TV ratings side - E-ACC/SEC-SPN depends greatly on BIG games now, and KU and UConn are big draws.
UConn has been a Duke killer the past 15 years - 2 of the Huskies NC's have been clearly at Duke's expense (pretty sure Duke was favored in those games, esp 1999).
KU has knocked UNC out of three recent tourneys (08, 12, 13), and in butt-whooping fashion, those games were all over by the 10min mark of the second half - UNC closed the scores in trash time, & KU won a NC in one of those campaigns (2008).
The biggest problem facing the ACC's top programs are the inevitable retirements of Williams, K, Boeheim, & Pitino within at most, decade. Those are massive, massive shoes to fill.
Bottom line: ACC basketball powers need to recruit nationally, often at the expense of BIG and once mighty Big East's footprints. Basketball talent is not mostly stuck down south like football, not even close - ask the SEC's Ky, no way the win their past 3 NCs without Illinois players, especially, and other non-southern recruits. Same goes for UNC & Duke - various star players, too many to count, plucked north of the Mason-Dixon line, Florida as well (Noah and Horford).
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Stimpy,
Dayton was a "Cinderella", Uconn and Kentucky not so much. Uconn should have been a 5 seed, and no one is suprised with the run they made. Pre-season #1 Kentucky may have more raw talent than anyone in the country and has been playing as good as anyone for a few weeks, losing only to Florida by 1. Teams like Uconn and Kentucky scheduled tougher OOC opponents and may have endured a few extra losses for it, but that doesn't make them "Cinderellas" because the NCAA seeds them poorly. Teams like them play the season to prepare for the tournys and it has shown this year. Look at the schedules for Uconn, Kentucky, Florida, and Wisky and you will see something in common.
Dayton was a "Cinderella", Uconn and Kentucky not so much. Uconn should have been a 5 seed, and no one is suprised with the run they made. Pre-season #1 Kentucky may have more raw talent than anyone in the country and has been playing as good as anyone for a few weeks, losing only to Florida by 1. Teams like Uconn and Kentucky scheduled tougher OOC opponents and may have endured a few extra losses for it, but that doesn't make them "Cinderellas" because the NCAA seeds them poorly. Teams like them play the season to prepare for the tournys and it has shown this year. Look at the schedules for Uconn, Kentucky, Florida, and Wisky and you will see something in common.
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The ACC is 9-3-3 against the Big Ten in an ESPN orchestrated head to head event in the past 15 years. The ACC just traded Maryland for Louisville, and the Big Ten added Rutgers. While Virginia lost to Wisconsin this season while sorting out the point guard position, Virginia did win on the home court of Wisconsin last season in Madison. That's not being buried by anyone. And Virginia has beaten Maryland 6 out of the past 7 meetings. Michigan and Michigan State both lost this year in the Big Ten-ACC challenge to other ACC schools.
UConn and Kansas would both help the Big Ten in basketball, no doubt. But I do doubt that Nebraska, Michigan, or Ohio State are itching to bring Charlie Weiss and Kansas fooball onto their football strength of schedule anytime soon particularly after adding Rutgers and Maryland. I could be wrong because this AAU fetish is driving the bus, but I wouldn't think that the Big Ten would want to dilute its football even more to add basketball strength. The Big Ten already has 7 or 8 good basketball programs. They had 5 Big Ten teams in the top 10 at some point this year, but I'm not predicting a Big Ten team to win the NCAA tournament. Wisconsin is all that remains.
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There is a saying, that lot's of lawyers like to use, that goes something like: "When you're in a hole and trying to get out - stop digging." I don't remember exactly how it goes, but I'm sure it applies to you Virginia guy.
NCAA Tournament Credits is a good way, I think to measure wehre a conference is at comparably to others. NCAA sports is all about the Benjamins anyway these days no? It seems that the minimum number of credits earned is equivalent to the number of bids a conference gets (which immediately, in my non-basketball / football mind - screams - BIAS.!!! - and that we better get serious about how the selections are made in the future and our involvement as a conference......would be different if an NCAA tournament credit were earned by actually having to win a tournament game.....and has to be the reason as to why Kryzywieski had a tantrum when only 6 ACC teams were selected......and those 6 was a reach as it is anyway......but I digress)
When you look at the number of bids out of conferences to the tournament in 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011....as well as the credits earned........it seems that the ACC has no track record of ever being at the top of heap in either bids or credits earned at least in the current century as far back as I went, and that has continued right up through the creation of the American Athletic Conference.
oh and btw: 45-10, and the 17-16 was some real home cooking BS.
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LOL, and what did Rutgers give to the Big Ten's basketball schedule and February BTN ratings?
While you see the Hype as the ACC, this year the Hype was the Big 10 at the beginning. At one point I think they had 3 of the Top 5 in December while Arizona was No. 1. Then the Hype went to the Big XII who folded worse than the ACC at the end. And it wasn't because some Oklahoma State player punched a fan. The ACC was not the hyped league this season. Maybe next season.
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Stimpy, never stop being Stimpy. You are just too much entertainment on this board. I have "Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy" running through my head when I read some of your more outlandish posts. Kudos to you.
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First off, no real Tobacco Road fan who seriously follows college basketball thinks that Syracuse is a better program than UConn. They're out of their freaking minds if they do.
The reason UConn gets the hatred it gets down here...and its JMHO...is that the ill-informed media made it sound as if UConn was the lone BE school responsible for the lawsuit. And, CT's former AG Blumenthal always being seen on TV during this time did nothing to change that narrative.
It almost NEVER got reported that VPI was in on it, too. At least until former VA Gov Mark Warner intervened on their behalf. Pitt's name was never mentioned, that I remember.
The NC schools were for UConn, as were UVA, and Maryland, if memory serves.
Right now, football is clearly driving the bus for conference media contracts. But, sports networks need content, and, basketball is the absolute best thing, content-wise, for them. I honestly believe Swofford knew this, which is why he pushed for UConn. But, the blowback from the other ACC schools forced him to compromise, and, not just on which school was eventually picked. Now, I have absolutely nothing against Louisville. But, I feel the ACC missed the boat by passing you all over.
Of course, you all already knew I thought this.
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No, ACC is hyped every season because they are ESPiN's sole property and their little darling. As a former BE fan, I got news for you regarding some of the teams you guys added. Fruits, Pitt, and ND will choke regularly in the NCAA and exit early, most likely to higher seeds. UL is the only team that has some life recently.
UCONN has the best NCAA tournament performance record of any team for the last 25 years. I am pretty confident Ollie will keep that trend going. UCONN has carried the BE banner in the NCAA for many years. This won't change regardless which conference we are in.
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This was not the ACC's year this year. At one point in January only Syracuse was in the Top 10, and Duke was 16 with no one else from the ACC in the Top 25. Virginia did well for us winning the ACC regular season and the ACC tournament against the prediction of every media talking head, and then barely losing to America's team in the NCAA by 2 points. Every talking head and the President of the US picked that team. UVA was never given a chance to accomplish anything they accomplished all season. It was the unbalanced schedule that enabled UVA to have an unfair advantage we have been told.
I have no doubt that brighter days are ahead in the ACC configuration starting next season with Louisville replacing Maryland. Hopefully UVA can keep up the momentum we have.
As for football, if UConn returns to Charlottesville, tell the long snapper to watch where he's snapping.
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I'd like to see a UNC-UConn comparison for the past 25 years. That would be an interesting read. So would Duke-UConn.
Fishy
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If you haven't noticed, it's what this discussion has been about.
But if you want to concentrate on football, the story isn't much better. Syracuse dusted Minnesota in it's bowl game this season. Perhaps people were watching in Toronto. I'll let you inform the board of Minnesota's conference affiliation. You can also let everyone know how Rutgers made out in the Pinstripe Bowl.
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The Big East decided to run off and hide on FS1. I would submit that ESPN spent the whole season hyping the Big XII in basketball this season. Brent Musburger hasn't spent that much time in Oklahoma in his life.
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You're a swell guy, Fishy. But, I was hoping for just a little more than that. Thanks, anyway.
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Here you go:
http://m.ctpost.com/uconn/article/D...UConn-has-long-been-5360287.php?cmpid=twitter
I updated the tournament win record % based on recent results:
Since 98-99
1.) Michigan State -- 40-15, six Final Fours, one national championship;
2.) UConn -- 36-8 , five Final Fours, three national championships;
3.) Duke -- 39-13, four Final Fours, two national championships;
4.) Kansas -- 39-15, four Final Fours, one national championship;
5.) Florida -- 33-10, three Final Fours, two national championships;
6.) North Carolina -- 34-11, four Final Fours, two national championships;
7.) Kentucky -- 34-12, three Final Fours, one national championship;
8.) Lousville -- 24-12, three Final Fours, one national championship.
BTW, it was a crime UCONN did not get into the NCAA last year despite being qualified. Current kids had nothing to do with the APR stuff and they all got great APR scores. It is a crime NCAA did that against UCONN last year but that's another post.
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Thank you, sir. Much obliged.
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Between UCONN men and women since 1999, UCONN has been to 17 final fours. UCONN has 10 35+ win seasons. Rest of the country combined only achieved that 12 times. There are no two dominate basketball programs than UCONN for the last 25 years.
http://the-boneyard.com/threads/rea...-womens-success-since-1999.56922/#post-913325
We haven't always taken the easy road either (*cough* Duke *cough*). In 2011 when we won the last title, UCONN has to play both Arizon and SDSU in Anaheim, CA. Those were virtual home games for SDSU and Arizona. UCONN won them both before going on to win the title. In fact, we lost number of Elite 8 games at the other team's home state. One against UCLA in CA and the other against UNC in Greensboro.
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The ACC is second fiddle to only one in football and basketball since Jim Delaney took the job at the Big Ten Conference in 1989, and way ahead of another one you misjudge as quality. This article will help you get a better grasp of the reality. The media hype and rankings every year don't match the reality where the Big Ten is concerned. It does where the SEC is concerned. And the ACC hasn't done too bad. Maybe Rutgers will make big changes to these numbers going forward. Who knows?
http://www.lostlettermen.com/article/why-big-ten-badly-needs-2014-ncaa-title
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This is an incredibly simple perspective (although not an unsurprising one, considering the source).
On a year-to-year football basis, the ACC will never touch the B1G, SEC or even the B12 so long as Texas and Oklahoma are still there. That means the ACC's calling card will have to be basketball, and that's precisely why the conference added Syracuse and Pitt the last time around.
Unfortunately for the ACC, it's been filled with a bunch of pretenders after Duke and UNC for years and years and years (and even Duke and UNC have been underperforming in the tourney since 2010). Conversely, the B1G has a number of programs - MSU, Ohio State, Michigan, etc. -that have helped the conference become every bit as good as the ACC. Adding UConn and Kansas would mean the top of the B1G (MSU, Kansas, UConn, OSU, Michigan) would go toe-to-toe with the top of the ACC (Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Louisville), while the depth of the B1G would blow the ACC right out the water.
Then, there's the fact that the B1G and ACC are clearly competing for dominance in NYC. As we saw this past weekend, UConn would help the B1G in that regard.
I'm not overly confident in UConn getting into the B1G, and there's plenty of GOR obstacles preventing Kansas from getting out of the Big 12. But pretending those two wouldn't impact the ACC is simply preposterous.
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I remember the UNC-UConn game in Greensboro. You had a PG whose name escapes me at the moment. Tough guy who could seemingly get into the lane at will.
I believe that we also played a regular season game as well. That was 2005, IIRC.
TBT, I do not remember the last time we made a Final Four without beginning the NCAAT in either G'boro or Charlotte. Unless it was in 2000, the one that comes to mind was way back in 1981. No team should ever play in their home state, unless it happens to be hosting the Final Four.
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