ACC Basketball a Dud

[Lefty2one]

It is hilarious that the ACC decided to add the three biggest post season chokers from the Big East in ND, Cuse and Pitt. All impostors.

Especially post-2002, after Maryland's title, the ACC has been a two-team conference with Duke and UNC and a bunch of other impostors. Adding ND, Cuse and Pitt was a match made in heaven.

 

[Gfunk]

It is hilarious that the ACC decided to add the three biggest post season chokers from the Big East in ND, Cuse and Pitt. All impostors.

Especially post-2002, after Maryland's title, the ACC has been a two-team conference with Duke and UNC and a bunch of other impostors. Adding ND, Cuse and Pitt was a match made in heaven.

Don't forget they added Lville - not exactly chokers & I think Pitino will be the best coach in the ACC. Dude would likely have 3 or 4 NCs by now if not for that dumb move to the NBA.

I agree, Pitt and ND are chokers. Syracuse is annoying, I find Boeheim to be quite a BLANK in real life, but no one can take away his 4 , 948 wins and NC - very few coaches have such a pedigree.

Big problems await the ACC due to HOF coaches all being near retirement. Some can recover fast (UNC and likely Duke, since they actually earned and NC appearances before K arrived - people forget those facts), I mean UConn is back after just two seasons. But I think Syracuse is at great risk of becoming demoted because that's a cold campus & only one coach has really made Syracuse basketball what it is. Not sure about Lville, they scored a major coach in Pitino, but after Crum retired, they sucked for a while - nearly a decade. In fact, Crum's last 5 years weren't exactly special.

 

[btstimpy]

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-blog/dp-teel-time-acc-hoops-wrap,0,1643469.post

The nightmare of those Tobacco Road people has to be UConn and Kansas joining the B1G and relegating the ACC to the same status it has in football, only this time instead of the SEC casting a pigskin shadow, the B1G would eat the ACC's lunch.

LOL. The B1G didn't add Kansas and UConn. It added Rutgers. You should be commenting on how that helped the B1G's basketball handicap going forward. The SEC casts a football shadow over everyone. The B1G certainly doesn't. I also wouldn't say that Kansas' NCAA performance this year in Men's Basketball was their best. UConn and Kentucky are this year's Cinderellas making the Final Four from 7 and 8 seeds. It happens alot with all the parity in college basketball and all the turmoil with one and dones. It is a great accomplishment to get hot at the right time in the tournament.

 

[upstater]

LOL. The B1G didn't add Kansas and UConn. It added Rutgers. You should be commenting on how that helped the B1G's basketball handicap going forward. The SEC casts a football shadow over everyone. The B1G certainly doesn't. I also wouldn't say that Kansas' NCAA performance this year in Men's Basketball was their best. UConn and Kentucky are this year's Cinderellas making the Final Four from 7 and 8 seeds. It happens alot with all the parity in college basketball and all the turmoil with one and dones. It is a great accomplishment to get hot at the right time in the tournament.

You don't think that the B1G adding Kansas and Uconn is something the ACC should worry about?

As for the rest, it's incredibly rich for a Virginia fan to label UConn and Kentucky a Cinderella. Come on. Look at your your OOC.

 

[JayRU09]

The ACC is a conference that uses the media pump themselves up to be bigger and better than they are, so of course they would take Syracuse since Syracuse is the damn master at staying relevant despite doing crap all.

Football supposedly drives the bus and Syracuse averaged a last place finish in the Big East for like a five year period.

BUT THEY HAD JIM BROWN THAT ONE TIME GUYZZZZZ

 

[btstimpy]

You don't think that the B1G adding Kansas and Uconn is something the ACC should worry about?

As for the rest, it's incredibly rich for a Virginia fan to label UConn and Kentucky a Cinderella. Come on. Look at your your OOC.

Not really. The Big XII would need to worry more about that.

 

[SAMCRO]

Doesn't hurt that most of the "experts" creating the narrative and reporting it are SU alums.

 

[JayRU09]

While yes, the Big XII would have to worry, at the end of the day, if those two schools are willing to move conferences, any conference that doesn't get them is the loser in this situation.

Good schools, flagship level schools, with top flight basketball. Concentrating that many basketball powers and giving them access to NYC that no other conference would have would effectively drown out any hope for the ACC to penetrate that market.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

LOL. The B1G didn't add Kansas and UConn. It added Rutgers. You should be commenting on how that helped the B1G's basketball handicap going forward. The SEC casts a football shadow over everyone. The B1G certainly doesn't. I also wouldn't say that Kansas' NCAA performance this year in Men's Basketball was their best. UConn and Kentucky are this year's Cinderellas making the Final Four from 7 and 8 seeds. It happens alot with all the parity in college basketball and all the turmoil with one and dones. It is a great accomplishment to get hot at the right time in the tournament.

Calling UCONN and Kentucky Cinderellas is just laughable. Next you gonna tell us with a straight face that Duke deserves a #2 seed while UCONN deserves a #7 seed. Last I checked, we are still UCONN and they are still Kentucky.

BTW, UVA is the weakest #1 seed and no one would have a problem putting NOVA there and you guys as a #2. If not for the committee filled with ACCholes, the bracket might make a little more sense. ACC got WAY over seeded this tournament and they still sucked.

For the record, I got nothing against UVA, Duke, UNC and Wake. I appreciate the fact those schools have the foresight to want UCONN in the ACC over UL. However, it does not change the reality where ACC get over hyped yearly and have not produced anything on the court in the while outside UNC.

 

[Sea Goat]

LOL. The B1G didn't add Kansas and UConn. It added Rutgers. You should be commenting on how that helped the B1G's basketball handicap going forward. The SEC casts a football shadow over everyone. The B1G certainly doesn't. I also wouldn't say that Kansas' NCAA performance this year in Men's Basketball was their best. UConn and Kentucky are this year's Cinderellas making the Final Four from 7 and 8 seeds. It happens alot with all the parity in college basketball and all the turmoil with one and dones. It is a great accomplishment to get hot at the right time in the tournament.

Stimp,

You refer to UConn and Kentucky as "Cinderellas". Between them they have won 2 of the last 3 titles. Since 1998 they have appeared in 9 final fours and won 5 championships. Not exactly the M.O. of a "Cinderella". Maybe in this year's tournament, not much was expected. But in UConn's and Kentucky's case they have been there before and it showed. I don't know if they will go a step further, but UConn is a team that can play "money ball". Love him or hate him, Calhoun developed a program with a little edge and Ollie has followed up nicely. You folks in the ACC would have been well served if you took UConn when you could have. Now, while we would do anything to get out of the AAC, most of us hope we go to the B1G. The B1G taking Rutgers was only based on the perceived benefit in the NYC metro area and their AAU status. Maybe it was bad decision making, but the ACC leaving UConn behind and taking the 4 BE teams it did was worse.

 

[JayRU09]

Well in the ACC's defense, adding Syracuse did give them the Toronto market.

But on a more serious note, I'm thinking part of this may be due to UCONN being a public flagship school. Maybe the smaller school's that have disproportionate amounts of power to what they probably should have thought that adding a school like UCONN would shake up the balance of power too much.

 

[upstater]

Not really. The Big XII would need to worry more about that.

You're whistling past the graveyard.

UConn, Kansas, Michigan, Michigan St., Maryland, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Indiana would bury you guys. Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Louisville would be your 4 going against those 8. NC State, and then I'll be generous and include Pitt and even Virginia against Illinois, Purdue, Iowa, Minnesota.

Seriously, it boggles my mind that you don't see this.

As usual, the ACC receives easy seeding and doesn't live up to it. You guys also chose to invite the two most underachieving basketball teams relative to talent that the BE had to offer. Syracuse and Pitt make a habit of bowing out during the first weekend.

 

[upstater]

While yes, the Big XII would have to worry, at the end of the day, if those two schools are willing to move conferences, any conference that doesn't get them is the loser in this situation.

Good schools, flagship level schools, with top flight basketball. Concentrating that many basketball powers and giving them access to NYC that no other conference would have would effectively drown out any hope for the ACC to penetrate that market.

The Big12 would still be sending out Texas and Oklahoma to win football games. And that's really all they care about.

It's the ACC with its perennial horrid football (until this year) that has to worry about its #1 one claim to fame (best basketball conference ever) being ripped to shreds by the B1G.

 

[Gfunk]

Not really. The Big XII would need to worry more about that.

Baloney, esp on the TV ratings side - E-ACC/SEC-SPN depends greatly on BIG games now, and KU and UConn are big draws.

UConn has been a Duke killer the past 15 years - 2 of the Huskies NC's have been clearly at Duke's expense (pretty sure Duke was favored in those games, esp 1999).

KU has knocked UNC out of three recent tourneys (08, 12, 13), and in butt-whooping fashion, those games were all over by the 10min mark of the second half - UNC closed the scores in trash time, & KU won a NC in one of those campaigns (2008).

The biggest problem facing the ACC's top programs are the inevitable retirements of Williams, K, Boeheim, & Pitino within at most, decade. Those are massive, massive shoes to fill.

Bottom line: ACC basketball powers need to recruit nationally, often at the expense of BIG and once mighty Big East's footprints. Basketball talent is not mostly stuck down south like football, not even close - ask the SEC's Ky, no way the win their past 3 NCs without Illinois players, especially, and other non-southern recruits. Same goes for UNC & Duke - various star players, too many to count, plucked north of the Mason-Dixon line, Florida as well (Noah and Horford).

 

[JayRU09]

Who wants to play in what's basically Canada once Boeheim leaves?

There may not be a more perfect example of a program ready to collapse based on one guy leaving.

 

[UPitt]

Stimpy,

Dayton was a "Cinderella", Uconn and Kentucky not so much. Uconn should have been a 5 seed, and no one is suprised with the run they made. Pre-season #1 Kentucky may have more raw talent than anyone in the country and has been playing as good as anyone for a few weeks, losing only to Florida by 1. Teams like Uconn and Kentucky scheduled tougher OOC opponents and may have endured a few extra losses for it, but that doesn't make them "Cinderellas" because the NCAA seeds them poorly. Teams like them play the season to prepare for the tournys and it has shown this year. Look at the schedules for Uconn, Kentucky, Florida, and Wisky and you will see something in common.

 

[btstimpy]

You're whistling past the graveyard.

UConn, Kansas, Michigan, Michigan St., Maryland, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Indiana would bury you guys. Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Louisville would be your 4 going against those 8. NC State, and then I'll be generous and include Pitt and even Virginia against Illinois, Purdue, Iowa, Minnesota.

Seriously, it boggles my mind that you don't see this.

As usual, the ACC receives easy seeding and doesn't live up to it. You guys also chose to invite the two most underachieving basketball teams relative to talent that the BE had to offer. Syracuse and Pitt make a habit of bowing out during the first weekend.

The ACC is 9-3-3 against the Big Ten in an ESPN orchestrated head to head event in the past 15 years. The ACC just traded Maryland for Louisville, and the Big Ten added Rutgers. While Virginia lost to Wisconsin this season while sorting out the point guard position, Virginia did win on the home court of Wisconsin last season in Madison. That's not being buried by anyone. And Virginia has beaten Maryland 6 out of the past 7 meetings. Michigan and Michigan State both lost this year in the Big Ten-ACC challenge to other ACC schools.

UConn and Kansas would both help the Big Ten in basketball, no doubt. But I do doubt that Nebraska, Michigan, or Ohio State are itching to bring Charlie Weiss and Kansas fooball onto their football strength of schedule anytime soon particularly after adding Rutgers and Maryland. I could be wrong because this AAU fetish is driving the bus, but I wouldn't think that the Big Ten would want to dilute its football even more to add basketball strength. The Big Ten already has 7 or 8 good basketball programs. They had 5 Big Ten teams in the top 10 at some point this year, but I'm not predicting a Big Ten team to win the NCAA tournament. Wisconsin is all that remains.

 

[Carl Spackler]

The ACC is 9-3-3 against the Big Ten in an ESPN orchestrated head to head event in the past 15 years. The ACC just traded Maryland for Louisville, and the Big Ten added Rutgers. While Virginia lost to Wisconsin this season while sorting out the point guard position, Virginia did win on the home court of Wisconsin last season in Madison. That's not being buried by anyone. And Virginia has beaten Maryland 6 out of the past 7 meetings. Michigan and Michigan State both lost this year in the Big Ten-ACC challenge to other ACC schools.

UConn and Kansas would both help the Big Ten in basketball, no doubt. But I do doubt that Nebraska, Michigan, or Ohio State are itching to bring Charlie Weiss and Kansas fooball onto their football strength of schedule anytime soon particularly after adding Rutgers and Maryland. I could be wrong because this AAU fetish is driving the bus, but I wouldn't think that the Big Ten would want to dilute its football even more to add basketball strength. The Big Ten already has 7 or 8 good basketball programs. They had 5 Big Ten teams in the top 10 at some point this year, but I'm not predicting a Big Ten team to win the NCAA tournament. Wisconsin is all that remains.

There is a saying, that lot's of lawyers like to use, that goes something like: "When you're in a hole and trying to get out - stop digging." I don't remember exactly how it goes, but I'm sure it applies to you Virginia guy.

NCAA Tournament Credits is a good way, I think to measure wehre a conference is at comparably to others. NCAA sports is all about the Benjamins anyway these days no? It seems that the minimum number of credits earned is equivalent to the number of bids a conference gets (which immediately, in my non-basketball / football mind - screams - BIAS.!!! - and that we better get serious about how the selections are made in the future and our involvement as a conference......would be different if an NCAA tournament credit were earned by actually having to win a tournament game.....and has to be the reason as to why Kryzywieski had a tantrum when only 6 ACC teams were selected......and those 6 was a reach as it is anyway......but I digress)

When you look at the number of bids out of conferences to the tournament in 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011....as well as the credits earned........it seems that the ACC has no track record of ever being at the top of heap in either bids or credits earned at least in the current century as far back as I went, and that has continued right up through the creation of the American Athletic Conference.

oh and btw: 45-10, and the 17-16 was some real home cooking BS.

 

[btstimpy]

Well in the ACC's defense, adding Syracuse did give them the Toronto market.

But on a more serious note, I'm thinking part of this may be due to UCONN being a public flagship school. Maybe the smaller school's that have disproportionate amounts of power to what they probably should have thought that adding a school like UCONN would shake up the balance of power too much.

LOL, and what did Rutgers give to the Big Ten's basketball schedule and February BTN ratings?

Calling UCONN and Kentucky Cinderellas is just laughable. Next you gonna tell us with a straight face that Duke deserves a #2 seed while UCONN deserves a #7 seed. Last I checked, we are still UCONN and they are still Kentucky.

BTW, UVA is the weakest #1 seed and no one would have a problem putting NOVA there and you guys as a #2. If not for the committee filled with ACCholes, the bracket might make a little more sense. ACC got WAY over seeded this tournament and they still sucked.

For the record, I got nothing against UVA, Duke, UNC and Wake. I appreciate the fact those schools have the foresight to want UCONN in the ACC over UL. However, it does not change the reality where ACC get over hyped yearly and have not produced anything on the court in the while outside UNC.

While you see the Hype as the ACC, this year the Hype was the Big 10 at the beginning. At one point I think they had 3 of the Top 5 in December while Arizona was No. 1. Then the Hype went to the Big XII who folded worse than the ACC at the end. And it wasn't because some Oklahoma State player punched a fan. The ACC was not the hyped league this season. Maybe next season.

 

[dayooper]

The ACC is 9-3-3 against the Big Ten in an ESPN orchestrated head to head event in the past 15 years. The ACC just traded Maryland for Louisville, and the Big Ten added Rutgers. While Virginia lost to Wisconsin this season while sorting out the point guard position, Virginia did win on the home court of Wisconsin last season in Madison. That's not being buried by anyone. And Virginia has beaten Maryland 6 out of the past 7 meetings. Michigan and Michigan State both lost this year in the Big Ten-ACC challenge to other ACC schools.

UConn and Kansas would both help the Big Ten in basketball, no doubt. But I do doubt that Nebraska, Michigan, or Ohio State are itching to bring Charlie Weiss and Kansas fooball onto their football strength of schedule anytime soon particularly after adding Rutgers and Maryland. I could be wrong because this AAU fetish is driving the bus, but I wouldn't think that the Big Ten would want to dilute its football even more to add basketball strength. The Big Ten already has 7 or 8 good basketball programs. They had 5 Big Ten teams in the top 10 at some point this year, but I'm not predicting a Big Ten team to win the NCAA tournament. Wisconsin is all that remains.

Stimpy, never stop being Stimpy. You are just too much entertainment on this board. I have "Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy" running through my head when I read some of your more outlandish posts. Kudos to you.

 

[JayRU09]

You keep talking about shooty hoops like I give a damn.

Typical ACC fan.

 

[SouthronCross]

Living on Tobacco Road I can tell you there is a deeply personal hatred of UConn, especially in the local "media." I honestly don't even understand why (lawsuit? though they accepted Pitt and SU) but it exists. These people have deluded themselves to the point they seriously believe Syracuse is a far better program than UConn, past and present.

To me, unless something drastic changes, the ACC is a complete non-starter.

(Disclaimer: NC State is my alma mater and I love the school.. but loathe the conference)

First off, no real Tobacco Road fan who seriously follows college basketball thinks that Syracuse is a better program than UConn. They're out of their freaking minds if they do.

The reason UConn gets the hatred it gets down here...and its JMHO...is that the ill-informed media made it sound as if UConn was the lone BE school responsible for the lawsuit. And, CT's former AG Blumenthal always being seen on TV during this time did nothing to change that narrative.

It almost NEVER got reported that VPI was in on it, too. At least until former VA Gov Mark Warner intervened on their behalf. Pitt's name was never mentioned, that I remember.

The NC schools were for UConn, as were UVA, and Maryland, if memory serves.

Right now, football is clearly driving the bus for conference media contracts. But, sports networks need content, and, basketball is the absolute best thing, content-wise, for them. I honestly believe Swofford knew this, which is why he pushed for UConn. But, the blowback from the other ACC schools forced him to compromise, and, not just on which school was eventually picked. Now, I have absolutely nothing against Louisville. But, I feel the ACC missed the boat by passing you all over.

Of course, you all already knew I thought this.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

LOL, and what did Rutgers give to the Big Ten's basketball schedule and February BTN ratings?



While you see the Hype as the ACC, this year the Hype was the Big 10 at the beginning. At one point I think they had 3 of the Top 5 in December while Arizona was No. 1. Then the Hype went to the Big XII who folded worse than the ACC at the end. And it wasn't because some Oklahoma State player punched a fan. The ACC was not the hyped league this season. Maybe next season.

No, ACC is hyped every season because they are ESPiN's sole property and their little darling. As a former BE fan, I got news for you regarding some of the teams you guys added. Fruits, Pitt, and ND will choke regularly in the NCAA and exit early, most likely to higher seeds. UL is the only team that has some life recently.

UCONN has the best NCAA tournament performance record of any team for the last 25 years. I am pretty confident Ollie will keep that trend going. UCONN has carried the BE banner in the NCAA for many years. This won't change regardless which conference we are in.

 

[btstimpy]

There is a saying, that lot's of lawyers like to use, that goes something like: "When you're in a hole and trying to get out - stop digging." I don't remember exactly how it goes, but I'm sure it applies to you Virginia guy.

NCAA Tournament Credits is a good way, I think to measure wehre a conference is at comparably to others. NCAA sports is all about the Benjamins anyway these days no? It seems that the minimum number of credits earned is equivalent to the number of bids a conference gets (which immediately, in my non-basketball / football mind - screams - BIAS.!!! - and that we better get serious about how the selections are made in the future and our involvement as a conference.would be different if an NCAA tournament credit were earned by actually having to win a tournament game.....and has to be the reason as to why Kryzywieski had a tantrum when only 6 ACC teams were selected.and those 6 was a reach as it is anyway.but I digress)

When you look at the number of bids out of conferences to the tournament in 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011....as well as the credits earned...it seems that the ACC has no track record of ever being at the top of heap in either bids or credits earned at least in the current century as far back as I went, and that has continued right up through the creation of the American Athletic Conference.

oh and btw: 45-10, and the 17-16 was some real home cooking BS.

This was not the ACC's year this year. At one point in January only Syracuse was in the Top 10, and Duke was 16 with no one else from the ACC in the Top 25. Virginia did well for us winning the ACC regular season and the ACC tournament against the prediction of every media talking head, and then barely losing to America's team in the NCAA by 2 points. Every talking head and the President of the US picked that team. UVA was never given a chance to accomplish anything they accomplished all season. It was the unbalanced schedule that enabled UVA to have an unfair advantage we have been told.

I have no doubt that brighter days are ahead in the ACC configuration starting next season with Louisville replacing Maryland. Hopefully UVA can keep up the momentum we have.

As for football, if UConn returns to Charlottesville, tell the long snapper to watch where he's snapping.

 

[SouthronCross]

No, ACC is hyped every season because they are ESPiN's sole property and their little darling. As a former BE fan, I got news for you regarding some of the teams you guys added. Fruits, Pitt, and ND will choke regularly in the NCAA and exit early, most likely to higher seeds. UL is the only team that has some life recently.

UCONN has the best NCAA tournament performance record of any team for the last 25 years. I am pretty confident Ollie will keep that trend going. UCONN has carried the BE banner in the NCAA for many years. This won't change regardless which conference we are in.

I'd like to see a UNC-UConn comparison for the past 25 years. That would be an interesting read. So would Duke-UConn.