2024 WNBA Season: Part 2 (August ---)

[ochoopsfan]

I thought this was the case.
In yesterdays Fever v Dream game, with 6.48 remaining in the 3rd quarter Fagbenle substituted in for Smith.
There were no other Fever player changes for the remaining 6.48 of the 3rd quarter, the entire 4th quarter and the OT.
No changes for over 21 minutes against a team that was 12-22 going into the game.
Why not? Was this a must win game for the Fever? Was the coach on the hot seat if she lost a home game to the Dream?
Wear and tear can add up.
The Dream didnt make a lot of changes either but it was a must game for them.

 

[cancontent]

I thought this was the case.
In yesterdays Fever v Dream game, with 6.48 remaining in the 3rd quarter Fagbenle substituted in for Smith.
There were no other Fever player changes for the remaining 6.48 of the 3rd quarter, the entire 4th quarter and the OT.
No changes for over 21 minutes against a team that was 12-22 going into the game.
Why not? Was this a must win game for the Fever? Was the coach on the hot seat if she lost a home game to the Dream?
Wear and tear can add up.
The Dream didnt make a lot of changes either but it was a must game for them.

They're also without Parker-Tyus (season) and Powers (TBD) which reduced the rotation the coach has been working with.

 

[MilfordHusky]

This has to be the best season of her career. I was doing a little stat checking and saw that she's leading the league in 3-point FG% right now (close to 50%)!!!!!

Does she have enough attempts to qualify?

 

[nwhoopfan]

Does she have enough attempts to qualify?

Talking about Hull? Looking at the official WNBA page stats leaders, they have her at #1 in 3 point % so apparently she does have enough. 49.2%, Dolson is next at 48.9%. Interesting that most of the high percentage shooters this year aren't high volume. Kayla McBride and Kelsey Mitchell jump out as the 2 who are both near the top in 3 pointers made and percentage.

 

[baggerbob]

I like Noelle Quinn, but it doesn't feel that she's getting the best out of Jewell Loyd. That said, I don't think it's all on her (a lot of it's on Jewell and her putrid shot selection and sometimesy approach to defense). Simply stated, Jewell needs to be better.

It's interesting that people didn't think of Becky as a championship coach considering that she's done something that only two other coaches in WNBA history have done (and something that Cheryl Reeve and Bill Laimbeer never did). Becky has her faults (and I'm not afraid to mention them), but she's a great coach--and certainly a much better one than Sandy Brondello. I can't think of another coach who would've been able to win Game 4 of last year's WNBA Finals given the circumstances (down the star PG, down an MVP, and down her back-up). Sandy Brondello, meanwhile, had two healthy MVPs--and took a major L at home in front of 16,000+ on a school night.

The argument against Sandy Brondello's coaching acumen stems from her Phoenix days. She won a title her first year with a stacked team (that she did not build) and then proceeded to not sniff another Finals until 2021 (they were lucky to get there--Vegas choked and that was the end of Laimbeer)--which would be her final season for the Mercury. They were favored to beat the Sky--but lost. Eight seasons--one title. She's had some of the best talent in the history of women's basketball, including having the one player that many here recognize as the GOAT. One title. Two Finals appearances. She's also underperformed as the Opals head coach, IMO.

Sandy is an underperforming coach. If she is able to win this season, good for her. The Liberty are the favorites to win it all this year. But I will be taking "the field" when it comes to the Liberty versus the field--and that's mainly because of her.

She lucked into taking over a team with talent, and getting Griner in her first year as a head coach, and has done nothing since. Sorry but when Stewie and JJ are scoring in the paint and getting to the line, Sabrina shoudn't be taking 21 shots.
That is bad coaching, and that's on Sandy.
If the liberty get lucky and win, it will be in spite of Sandy.

 

[WBBTakeover]

Does she have enough attempts to qualify?

Good question. I'm going to assume that she does because she's showing up on the stats page:
WNBA Stats Page

 

[ochoopsfan]

Does she have enough attempts to qualify?

I dont know the qualification rules
Hull has 65 attempts, which puts her 48th in the W in # of attempts.
The top 5 attempts so far are
Clark 320
Arike 297
Ionescu 286
Plum 273
K. Mitchell 245

 

[Dillon77]

I thought this was the case.
In yesterdays Fever v Dream game, with 6.48 remaining in the 3rd quarter Fagbenle substituted in for Smith.
There were no other Fever player changes for the remaining 6.48 of the 3rd quarter, the entire 4th quarter and the OT.
No changes for over 21 minutes against a team that was 12-22 going into the game.
Why not? Was this a must win game for the Fever? Was the coach on the hot seat if she lost a home game to the Dream?
Wear and tear can add up.
The Dream didnt make a lot of changes either but it was a must game for them.

I watched it, too, and truth be told: I didn't think about it much because it was such a close game.

• Sides has tightened up her rotation a lot and didn't expect her to make any changes in the backcourt
• Maybe Smith or Dantas could've come in the frontcourt.
• Indiana is having a close race with the Mercury for a higher seeding, so maybe that factored into it.
• Lastly, the team has off until Wednesday and it's a home game, so no travel involved.

Now, if the Fever gets some breathing room between the Mercury, I'd get KLS, Wallace, Dantas, etc. into the mix to address that concern...

 

[YoDore]

This is hilarious.

 

[WBBTakeover]

@WBBTakeover : "I like Noelle Quinn, but it doesn't feel that she's getting the best out of Jewell Loyd. That said, I don't think it's all on her (a lot of it's on Jewell and her putrid shot selection and sometimesy approach to defense). Simply stated, Jewell needs to be better."

This comment regarding the Quinn-Loyd coaching relationship came up earlier in the summer and, while I made a note of it, I didn't have the time to look at it. This time, I decided to pull up a bunch of charts, articles. Exec. summary:

• Based on what I saw, it looks like Noelle Quinn is getting out of Jewell Loyd what she wants because Loyd's minutes, shot attempts have all gone up since Quinn became head coach in 2021. In shot, she's complicit in what we see from JL.
• These jumped the shark in 2023 once Stewie left for the right coast and Sue B. retired. While I haven't broken down the first half of the 2024 season vs. the post-Olympic part, Loyd's shot attempts are coming down and are now at 16.9 per game.)

Some excerpts:
2021: Averaged 17.9 ppg. Shot 42% (6.2-14.8 attempts) overall; 38% from three. Shot 89% from line (3.4-3.8 attempts).
2022: Averaged 16.3 ppg. Shot 39.6% (5.6-14.1 attempts) overall; 38.5% from three. Shot 89% from line (2.8-3.1 attempts)
Post-Stewie/Bird
2023: Averaged 24.7 ppg. Shot 37% (7.5-20.3 attempts) overall; 35.6% from three. Shot 89% (6.7-7.5 attempts) from line.
2024 (so far): Averaging 20.1 ppg. Shooting 37% (6.2-16.9 attempts); 28.3% from three. Shooting 88% (6.1-6.9 attempts).

Some takeaways:

• I don't know what the accepted number of attempts per game is for a volume shooter, but let's say it's 15. When Jewell went over 15 attempts per game, her overall shooting percentage dipped under 40%. Her three-pt. percentages have been steadily dropping, with this year's 28.3% the lowest since her rookie year in 2015.
• Quinn has also played Loyd 35 minutes per game in '23 and 34 mpg in '24. I don't think Quinn thought she had a choice in '23, but Loyd is clearly not shooting three's well this season. Get Sami Whitcomb in more? Olympic burnout? As noted in posts last week, Seattle is one of (the worst) three-pt. shooting teams in the league, so this drought is affecting more than Loyd (Whitcomb, Diggins-Smith).
• However, one area where Loyd's decision have benefits: Look at how often she gets to the line the last two years. And she's stroking these at a very proficient level. So, maybe Coach Quinn should be having Loyd take it to the rack, rather than jacking up the three?

Thank you for this analysis! Very interesting, to say the least.

To me, these stats reveal something that I hadn't considered. Jewell is not a true #1 scoring option. She'd likely be shooting the ball more efficiently if she was playing in Vegas, NY, or Minnesota. We could probably add Indiana to that list as well. But she is being asked to fulfill a role that she's not well suited for, IMO. Last season, we could write it off as the team being horrible. This year, however, there is plenty of talent in Seattle. The issue is that they're all 2nd (and 3rd) options--and so is Jewell. She'd probably look the same way in Connecticut (another team full of 2nd and 3rd options).

What's promising for her moving forward is that she is now adept at drawing fouls and getting to the line. That's something to build on. I don't know if she can be convinced to take fewer threes because she seems to have established a level of comfort with that shot.

 

[Dillon77]

Thank you for this analysis! Very interesting, to say the least.

To me, these stats reveal something that I hadn't considered. Jewell is not a true #1 scoring option. She'd likely be shooting the ball more efficiently if she was playing in Vegas, NY, or Minnesota. We could probably add Indiana to that list as well. But she is being asked to fulfill a role that she's not well suited for, IMO. Last season, we could write it off as the team being horrible. This year, however, there is plenty of talent in Seattle. The issue is that they're all 2nd (and 3rd) options--and so is Jewell. She'd probably look the same way in Connecticut (another team full of 2nd and 3rd options).

What's promising for her moving forward is that she is now adept at drawing fouls and getting to the line. That's something to build on. I don't know if she can be convinced to take fewer threes because she seems to have established a level of comfort with that shot.

Jewell's most efficient shooting years took place when Stewie was on the Storm. Since Stewie left prior to that 2023 season, we've seen the increase in shots per game to more than 15 per contest and the drop in "made" percentages; particularly three-pointers.
If there can be a greater concentration (next season, probably) on moving the ball to all, it would probably get better.

Even at ND, I always thought Jewell's shooting strengths were from the top of the elbow in: she's got a dynamite mid-range and is an excellent slasher (leading to those foul shots).

In the meantime, it will be interesting to see how the playoffs fall out....

 

[Bone Dog]

Jewell's most efficient shooting years took place when Stewie was on the Storm. Since Stewie left prior to that 2023 season, we've seen the increase in shots per game to more than 15 per contest and the drop in "made" percentages; particularly three-pointers.
If there can be a greater concentration (next season, probably) on moving the ball to all, it would probably get better.

Even at ND, I always thought Jewell's strength were from the top of the elbow in: she's got a dynamite mid-range and is an excellent slasher (leading to those foul shots).

In the meantime, it will be interesting to see how the playoffs fall out....

I expect the departure of Stewie also meant more defensive attention could be paid to Jewell.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I dont know the qualification rules
Hull has 65 attempts, which puts her 48th in the W in # of attempts.
The top 5 attempts so far are
Clark 320
Arike 297
Ionescu 286
Plum 273
K. Mitchell 245

Part of the reason I asked is that Hull is NOT listed in the ESPN rankings. Stef is first, Fiebich is second. The lowest number of makes is 1 per game. Hull exceeds that, with 32 makes in 30 games.

 

[azfan]

She lucked into taking over a team with talent, and getting Griner in her first year as a head coach, and has done nothing since. Sorry but when Stewie and JJ are scoring in the paint and getting to the line, Sabrina shoudn't be taking 21 shots.
That is bad coaching, and that's on Sandy.
If the liberty get lucky and win, it will be in spite of Sandy.

Wow..... Lose lose situation for Sandy. Underperforming Coach if she doesn't win the title and no credit if she does . . . wow.

Brings to mind the old Saturday Night Live skit about the Bears and Mike Dirka.

What if a tiny Sandy Brondello beats the Minnesota Lynx one on five. Would she be considered an underperforming coach at that point if she started herself, the miniature SB, and completed an amazing sweep of Lynx.....by herself?

 

[Blueballer]

She lucked into taking over a team with talent, and getting Griner in her first year as a head coach, and has done nothing since. Sorry but when Stewie and JJ are scoring in the paint and getting to the line, Sabrina shoudn't be taking 21 shots.
That is bad coaching, and that's on Sandy.
If the liberty get lucky and win, it will be in spite of Sandy.

As was mentioned before the same could be said for Becky Hammon. When she was hired Las Vegas was loaded for bear. Now after a couple free agency departures and an injury year for Gray they aren't quite as formidable. Does that mean Hammon is going to be cast in the same light? Sandy might not be the greatest coach but I doubt she is as bad as you are implying.

 

[Bigboote]

Anyone know what’s up with Dorka Juhasz tonight? I tuned in late and haven’t seen her.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Anyone know what’s up with Dorka Juhasz tonight? I tuned in late and haven’t seen her.

Not sure, but she didn't play tonight and had limited minutes in the last game.

 

[JoePgh]

Anyone know what’s up with Dorka Juhasz tonight? I tuned in late and haven’t seen her.

An article that I found on a Google search said that she was out due to illness. ESPN just listed her as "Out" two hours before the game started.

 

[Dillon77]

Due to "other" events on Tuesday night, didn't get to watch many of the earlier games, but did catch the 2nd and 3rd quarters of the Sun-Sparks game (second of a two-game stint in LA). Sun outscored Sparks by 13 in the second quarter and 8 in the third en route to building up a 28-pt. lead, eventually winning 86-66.

Marina Mabrey came off the bench to score 10 pts in the first half and stayed that way throughout, finishing with a season-high 26 points on 9-13 shooting overall and a blistering 6-8 from three and 2-2 from the line. Center Brionna Jones has another solid night, scoring 19 points and grabbing 8 rebounds.

Crystal Dangerfield saw the court for the Sparks last night for 18 minutes and delivered well; shooting 4-8 from the field (three of five from three) for 11 points. Azura Stevens grabbed 17 rebounds and scored 10 points, which were hard to come by (4-13 shooting).

 

[Bigboote]

An article that I found on a Google search said that she was out due to illness. ESPN just listed her as "Out" two hours before the game started.

Thanks — your googling skills are better than mine.

 

[cancontent]

 

[WBBTakeover]

Just saw that Caitlin is making 63% of her lay-ups this season...as a ROOKIE GUARD. We're all on high alert here!!!!!

 

[WBBTakeover]

As was mentioned before the same could be said for Becky Hammon. When she was hired Las Vegas was loaded for bear. Now after a couple free agency departures and an injury year for Gray they aren't quite as formidable. Does that mean Hammon is going to be cast in the same light? Sandy might not be the greatest coach but I doubt she is as bad as you are implying.

There's almost a 0% chance that Sandy Brondello would've been able to take a team that was missing Jonquel Jones (or Breanna Stewart) and Sabrina Ionescu into Michelob Ultra Arena to defeat a healthy Aces squad in a close-out game for a championship. I'll take it a step further--since people claim that the Aces are more talented than the Liberty (even though the Aces have one starting post/one MVP while the Liberty have two MVP posts). The Aces would not have any titles if Sandy was the head coach instead of Becky.

Becky and Sandy are not one in the same. Becky is the superior coach. She has her faults, but they are not on the level of Sandy's deficiencies.

This season, Sandy has the best team in the league. They are the favorites. If she doesn't lead that team to the championship THIS YEAR, she should be fired.

I don't think she'll pull it off (I'm taking the field), so it'll be interesting to see what her next career move will be.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Tina Charles is currently #2 in all-time scoring AND rebounding. She has 4 games remaining this season and needs 32 rebounds to pass Sylvia Fowles for #1 in rebounding. Go Tina!

 

[cancontent]

Tina Charles is currently #2 in all-time scoring AND rebounding. She has 4 games remaining this season and needs 32 rebounds to pass Sylvia Fowles for #1 in rebounding. Go Tina!

If she does that, what an awesome comeback story for her this season. Don't like using the term comeback, but considering that she even thought her time in the WNBA was done, it's the best description I have at the moment.