2023 Giants | Page 11 | The Boneyard

2023 Giants

I want Wink gone yesterday.

How can we not be prepared for a heavy dose of Jacobs running the ball under the circumstances?
 
FfldCntyFan said:
I want Wink gone yesterday.

How can we not be prepared for a heavy dose of Jacobs running the ball under the circumstances?
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Stopping the run was the defenses weakness. Wink has his flaws but hasn’t done bad enough to be fireable. Would I make an upgrade at D coordinator sure but it’s not as high on the list of concerns.
 
So Matt Barkley hasn’t been good enough to play over Tommy Devito has to only be one reason and that’s to tank. Was stupid to not trade Saquon, I love Saquon love the fact he wants to stay here but it’s just stupid you have been honorable enough go play for a Super Bowl contending team.
 
Scoe said:
So Matt Barkley hasn’t been good enough to play over Tommy Devito has to only be one reason and that’s to tank. Was stupid to not trade Saquon, I love Saquon love the fact he wants to stay here but it’s just stupid you have been honorable enough go play for a Super Bowl contending team.
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Was stupid to pay DJ in hindsight.
 
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Wink is like #150 on the list of issues for this team to address this offseason
 
with Jones likely out the year you have to figure there is a great shot to finish top 5. And if certain crazy things break, maybe even the 1 overall.
 
Scoe said:
Stopping the run was the defenses weakness. Wink has his flaws but hasn’t done bad enough to be fireable. Would I make an upgrade at D coordinator sure but it’s not as high on the list of concerns.
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I couldn’t watch the game and just saw the result! They ran right through Williams replacement I presume.
 
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CardiacAndre7 said:
Was stupid to pay DJ in hindsight.
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It was, but not because of yesterday's ACL injury. While coaching, play-calling, the manner in which Jones plays, and with whom the Giants "support" him makes Jones more susceptible to injury, ACL injuries are freak and can happen to anyone.

Injuries notwithstanding, Jones is not good and the Giants were correct in declining his 5th year option. Overpaying Jones at $160M/4 seemed purely emotional, coming off a solid playoff road win (albeit also a barely pedestrian playoff road loss).

Schoen did well in structuring the early years of the contract, but the out clause after year 2 may prove to be a game changer in rebuilding the Giants, yet the big winners in the negotiations were Brian Murphy and Camron Hahn. One does not have to be Daniel Jeremiah to see that the Giants need a 1st or 2nd round QB, who should hold the clipboard in in year 1.
 
Here's a fun game: guess if the Giants will lose today by more or less than the Huskies yesterday.
 
huskyjawz said:
Here's a fun game: guess if the Giants will lose today by more or less than the Huskies yesterday.
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I’ll take the under. I say Cowboys by 30, but will feel like a 50-60 pt game, Dak gets taken out after the 3rd. The Giants run it 90 percent of the time to run clock because Daboll is spineless. Devito better get ready to be in the fetal position, Parsons could have 10 sacks today.
 
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This game is going to be ugly. Primarily due to the fact that with our current QB situation, it will be highly unlikely that we can hot double digits scoring against Dallas. Additionally, I don’t trust Wink’s defensive philosophy enough to where we won’t give up a number of first downs on third and long and a handful of long plays due to over gambling.

I’m resigned to the fact that we will end this season among the four or five worst records in the league but do find solace in three words: Marvin Harrison Junior. I hope our staff takes a long, hard look at everything before this draft.

A few weeks back I gave an intern (who claims to be a huge football fan but still has a ton to learn) an assignment: go over the past twelve NFL drafts, identify every QB taken in the top six and then identify how many of them the team that drafted them are happy with how it turned out.

I am not claiming that the Giants need to remain committed to Daniel Jones. In fact, my belief is that the best course of action would be to find a bridge QB while the team builds out everything that needs building (likely a two-year undertaking) and then look for a QB.

My belief is that there is nothing worse for a team than to use a premium pick (would be magnified if they traded a significant amount of capital for that pick) on a QB who they hope they can develop into something. I personally am not sold on any of the QB’s that project to be drafted with very early first round picks this year and believe that if we do draft one, not far down the road we could easily be looking at him the way Jet fans look at Darnold and Wilson. We can use this draft to complete our WR room, add a couple quality DL, another OL, some DB’s, maybe a RB.

Of greater importance at QB, if anyone was told, today, that for this season, you can have all three of Philadelphia, San Francisco and Dallas vs the field to be the NFC representative in the Super Bowl how confident would you be? Hell, expand this to every NFC team that is currently over .500 (prior to kickoff today). How confident would you be that this list would have the NFC’s 2023 champion in? Now tell me how each got their starting QB. If you build out everything else it becomes far easier for a QB to succeed.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
This game is going to be ugly. Primarily due to the fact that with our current QB situation, it will be highly unlikely that we can hot double digits scoring against Dallas. Additionally, I don’t trust Wink’s defensive philosophy enough to where we won’t give up a number of first downs on third and long and a handful of long plays due to over gambling.

I’m resigned to the fact that we will end this season among the four or five worst records in the league but do find solace in three words: Marvin Harrison Junior. I hope our staff takes a long, hard look at everything before this draft.

A few weeks back I gave an intern (who claims to be a huge football fan but still has a ton to learn) an assignment: go over the past twelve NFL drafts, identify every QB taken in the top six and then identify how many of them the team that drafted them are happy with how it turned out.

I am not claiming that the Giants need to remain committed to Daniel Jones. In fact, my belief is that the best course of action would be to find a bridge QB while the team builds out everything that needs building (likely a two-year undertaking) and then look for a QB.

My belief is that there is nothing worse for a team than to use a premium pick (would be magnified if they traded a significant amount of capital for that pick) on a QB who they hope they can develop into something. I personally am not sold on any of the QB’s that project to be drafted with very early first round picks this year and believe that if we do draft one, not far down the road we could easily be looking at him the way Jet fans look at Darnold and Wilson. We can use this draft to complete our WR room, add a couple quality DL, another OL, some DB’s, maybe a RB.

Of greater importance at QB, if anyone was told, today, that for this season, you can have all three of Philadelphia, San Francisco and Dallas vs the field to be the NFC representative in the Super Bowl how confident would you be? Hell, expand this to every NFC team that is currently over .500 (prior to kickoff today). How confident would you be that this list would have the NFC’s 2023 champion in? Now tell me how each got their starting QB. If you build out everything else it becomes far easier for a QB to succeed.
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If you can draft Caleb Williams, or my preference, Drake Maye, you do. Period. End of story.
 
HeGotGame said:
If you can draft Caleb Williams, or my preference, Drake Maye, you do. Period. End of story.
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I'll be surprised if either developes into a big time NFL QB, especially in a situation like the current Giants.

Additionally, to land Williams, we'll need to trade the top five (24 draft) pick we'll get for the stellar season we are about to limp our way through, our 25 first round pick and likely three more premium draft picks. Maye (unless we not only lose out but also get a little good fortune) will cost us two firsts, a second and a third.

Beyond overpaying in draft capital to be able to make the selection, we will need to pray that they won't end up as busts, the way all but a few of the QB's drafted that early have ended up (Winston, Marriotta, Trubisky, Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, Wilson, Lance to name few).
 
FfldCntyFan said:
I'll be surprised if either developes into a big time NFL QB, especially in a situation like the current Giants.

Additionally, to land Williams, we'll need to trade the top five (24 draft) pick we'll get for the stellar season we are about to limp our way through, our 25 first round pick and likely three more premium draft picks. Maye (unless we not only lose out but also get a little good fortune) will cost us two firsts, a second and a third.

Beyond overpaying in draft capital to be able to make the selection, we will need to pray that they won't end up as busts, the way all but a few of the QB's drafted that early have ended up (Winston, Marriotta, Trubisky, Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, Wilson, Lance to name few).
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That's not true, we're not going to need to trade up to get Williams or Maye. We're already at pick #3 and we're probably not going to win a game the rest of the season with Tommy DeVito at QB

You keep cherry picking the bad QBs that are picked early and the good QBs that are picked late, and completely ignoring the alternatives. Yes, there are a lot of QBs picked early who bust, because there are a ton of QBs picked early every year. There are a handful of QBs picked late who work out, but there are even more who don't work out. We could try to name them but most are so useless we don't even know their names. The idea that picking a QB late has a better chance of working than a QB early is just insane
 
navery12 said:
That's not true, we're not going to need to trade up to get Williams or Maye. We're already at pick #3 and we're probably not going to win a game the rest of the season with Tommy DeVito at QB

You keep cherry picking the bad QBs that are picked early and the good QBs that are picked late, and completely ignoring the alternatives. Yes, there are a lot of QBs picked early who bust, because there are a ton of QBs picked early every year. There are a handful of QBs picked late who work out, but there are even more who don't work out. We could try to name them but most are so useless we don't even know their names. The idea that picking a QB late has a better chance of working than a QB early is just insane
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I'm not saying that picking a QB late has a better chance of working out than one picked early.

My belief is that there is a considerably stronger chance of a QB becoming a bust if he is drafted into a bad situation than if he's drafted into a good situation. Additionally, as teams tend to draft QB's above their overall prospect rankings, non-QB's tend to be far better value picks than QB's when picked early. Beyond this, it is dar easier to project non-QB's as professional football players than it is to project QB's.

My stance is that we have a lot of things that need to be addressed, and we can address all (save QB) with this draft, including adding the best WR prospect in years (possibly since megatron). If we draft well this upcoming spring, we can look into the following draft, then be in position to trade a boatload of picks if we see a QB worth drafting.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
I'll be surprised if either developes into a big time NFL QB, especially in a situation like the current Giants.

Additionally, to land Williams, we'll need to trade the top five (24 draft) pick we'll get for the stellar season we are about to limp our way through, our 25 first round pick and likely three more premium draft picks. Maye (unless we not only lose out but also get a little good fortune) will cost us two firsts, a second and a third.

Beyond overpaying in draft capital to be able to make the selection, we will need to pray that they won't end up as busts, the way all but a few of the QB's drafted that early have ended up (Winston, Marriotta, Trubisky, Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, Wilson, Lance to name few).
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What are you even talking about?

The giants have the 3rd pick right now and are starting Tommy Devito. Are you under some assumption this team is going to win more than 1 game from here on out? At this rate the Giants will have a top 2 pick and can draft Maye or Williams without all that other nonsense you wrote about.
 
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FfldCntyFan said:
I'm not saying that picking a QB late has a better chance of working out than one picked early.

My belief is that there is a considerably stronger chance of a QB becoming a bust if he is drafted into a bad situation than if he's drafted into a good situation. Additionally, as teams tend to draft QB's above their overall prospect rankings, non-QB's tend to be far better value picks than QB's when picked early. Beyond this, it is dar easier to project non-QB's as professional football players than it is to project QB's.

My stance is that we have a lot of things that need to be addressed, and we can address all (save QB) with this draft, including adding the best WR prospect in years (possibly since megatron). If we draft well this upcoming spring, we can look into the following draft, then be in position to trade a boatload of picks if we see a QB worth drafting.
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So pass on two QBs who are widely considered to be better than anyone coming jnto the draft next year so we can trade up and draft a lesser prospect in 2025. Cool. Good thing your not a GM
 
HeGotGame said:
So pass on two QBs who are widely considered to be better than anyone coming jnto the draft next year so we can trade up and draft a lesser prospect in 2025. Cool. Good thing your not a GM
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If the Jets were told today that they could trade Zach Wilson straight up for Jamarr Chase how would they respond?

I'll go back to my comment on top five QBs over the past dozen years. Please, tell me the success rate.

Please explain why you believe Caleb Williams is a better NFL prospect than Marvin Harrison jr. If you prefer Maye, please explain why you have him rated above Harrison jr.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
If the Jets were told today that they could trade Zach Wilson straight up for Jamarr Chase how would they respond?

I'll go back to my comment on top five QBs over the past dozen years. Please, tell me the success rate.

Please explain why you believe Caleb Williams is a better NFL prospect than Marvin Harrison jr. If you prefer Maye, please explain why you have him rated above Harrison jr.
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If the Bengals were told today that they could trade Joe Burrow straight up for Jerry Juedy how would they respond?

If the Jags were told today that they could trade Trevor Lawrence straight up for Jamar Chase how would they respond?

Your idea that Williams or Maye won't be an NFL franchise QB because of the success rate of previous top 5 QBs is quite simply idiotic.

But considering you said you would rather pass up using your own pick to draft Williams or Maye to trade up to take a QB like Sheadur Sanders in 2025 I am not surprised.

Oh, and here is the QBs taken in the top 5 the last 5 years. Lawrence, Burrow, Young, Stroud, Wilson, Lance, and Tua. 4 no doubt franchise QB.
 
Watching this team I have no clue what direction they need to go they need so much. Jones won’t be back for beginning of the year so you almost have to get one anyway. But I feel really bad for any QB coming to this team with that offensive line, offensive coordinator and now I’m afraid head coach. They can all go start from scratch nothing is anything but an embarrassment.
 
HeGotGame said:
ers (who happened If the Bengals were told today that they could trade Joe Burrow straight up for Jerry Juedy how would they respond?

If the Jags were told today that they could trade Trevor Lawrence straight up for Jamar Chase how would they respond?

Your idea that Williams or Maye won't be an NFL franchise QB because of the success rate of previous top 5 QBs is quite simply idiotic.

But considering you said you would rather pass up using your own pick to draft Williams or Maye to trade up to take a QB like Sheadur Sanders in 2025 I am not surprised.

Oh, and here is the QBs taken in the top 5 the last 5 years. Lawrence, Burrow, Young, Stroud, Wilson, Lance, and Tua. 4 no doubt franchise QB.
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Are you a child?

The Bengals had every opportunity to select Juedy over Burrow. The Jags had every opportunity to select Chase over Lawrence, followed by the Jets, then the 49ers (who paid a king's ransom for that pick).

When did I ever say I wanted Shadeur Sanders?

On the track record of early picks: a) I was accused of cherry picking (by Navery) when I pointed out the success (more accurately failure) rate of early pick QB's. Over the time frame that I mentioned, you selected (cherry picked may be more accurate) the only two who don't fall into either the category of failure or the jury is still out.

First question for you: How many Lincoln Riley QB's have been picked early in recent drafts?
Next question: How many of the above don't qualify as failures?
Additional question: Caleb Williams is being developed by who?

You posted that Williams and Maye are widely considered better than anyone coming into the draft next year. In and around Veteran's Day 2018 how many then senior QB's were widely considered better than Joe Burrow?

When he entered the draft with eligibility remaining, Patrick Mahomes was given a third round grade by the panel that reviews early entrants and advised by them (and many teams) to return to school to try to improve his draft grade. When the Chiefs traded (with a team that needed a QB) and selected him, many criticized the move. The experts don't have quite the expertise at evaluating QB's as they do at other positions.

The reality is that there is more reason to believe that Williams and Maye will not end up being anything than there is to believe they will. In all candor, a pick as high as what we will have in the first round next spring needs to hit at a 95+% rate. QBs selected that high aren't hitting at 40%

Tell me, what is it about your evaluation of either Williams or Maye that tells you he will be top tier QB? From what I've read, you have a strong belief that at least one will be a star. to be a top pick, I would imagine that the player needs to project to be a star.

Next question: For the sake of argument, let's say we can't beat the Patriots when we play them and end up picking third (after Chicago, with Carolina's pick and Arizona). Also, for the sake of argument, let's say Arizona puts their pick up for auction (we can assume they still believe in Murray) and Chicago decides to select the QB you do not prefer (out of Williams and Maye). Would you try to work out a trade with Arizona and what would you offer? Please be realistic in this as teams tend to throw quite a bit of draft capital to move up one or two spots to pick a QB.
 
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