2022 Giants Thread | Page 28 | The Boneyard

2022 Giants Thread

I'm fine with the Jones contract as long as the specifics aren't crazy. Hopefully an out after 2 years for a worst case scenario, and the cap hit is back loaded
 
navery12 said:
I'm fine with the Jones contract as long as the specifics aren't crazy. Hopefully an out after 2 years for a worst case scenario, and the cap hit is back loaded
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19 mill cap hit in the first year which is great, based on the initial reports appears they can get out after 2 years
 
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After the last decade of ineptitude, I'm happy to be back in the playoff hunt again, of which, Jones was a critical component. I don't believe he has reached his full potential yet either.

I mean what's the alternative, drafting a QB late round 1 and/or playing tyrod? Pass.
 
No denying that Schoen did well here. He retained Jones on his terms.

Jones counts for less against the cap than the 5th year option that no one wanted to pay him a year ago, and will pay him in the out years about what he would command had the option been exercised. He gets $82 million guaranteed, and fans get their guy for about two seasons before the Giants have to start playing Cap games. Mara can also now rely on a happy fanbase ponying up for season tickets.

Now comes the biggest variable of all. Jones has to play like a $40 million quarterback, because by any 2022 metric, he was middle-of-the-pack mediocre.
 
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Husky25 said:
No denying that Schoen did well here. He retained Jones on his terms.

Jones counts for less against the cap than the 5th year option that no one wanted to pay him a year ago, and will pay him in the out years about what he would command had the option been exercised. He gets $82 million guaranteed, and fans get their guy for about two seasons before the Giants have to start playing Cap games. Mara can also now rely on a happy fanbase ponying up for season tickets.

Now comes the biggest variable of all. Jones has to play like a $40 million quarterback, because by any 2022 metric, he was middle-of-the-pack mediocre.
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5th in completion percentage
1st in INT ratio
6th in QBR
11th in total yards
Won a road playoff game

But yes, "any 2022 metric, he was middle-of-the-pack mediocre". Either you are the worst troll in the game or just making things up as you go. Care to share which one it is?
 
HeGotGame said:
5th in completion percentage
1st in INT ratio
6th in QBR
11th in total yards
Won a road playoff game

But yes, "any 2022 metric, he was middle-of-the-pack mediocre". Either you are the worst troll in the game or just making things up as you go. Care to share which one it is?
Expand ...

Not even to mention his running game with zero receiving threats.
 
HeGotGame said:
5th in completion percentage
1st in INT ratio
6th in QBR
11th in total yards
Won a road playoff game

But yes, "any 2022 metric, he was middle-of-the-pack mediocre". Either you are the worst troll in the game or just making things up as you go. Care to share which one it is?
Expand ...
His average depth of target was 6.5 yards also, which was bottom of the league. He didn’t take chances, which is good much of the time, but he didn’t raise the ceiling too much. Obviously the line wasn’t great and the weapons were pretty basic, but it’s been a characteristic of his game. He needs to improve his downfield accuracy and his willingness to take chances. Hopefully with more weapons he does. The contract isn’t bad, and i’m glad it’s structured the way it is. It’s a show me contract of sorts.
 
I'm just having fun. I've already conceded twice that Schoen did well to retain a player the Gioants and their fans wanted.
 
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CardiacAndre7 said:
His average depth of target was 6.5 yards also, which was bottom of the league. He didn’t take chances, which is good much of the time, but he didn’t raise the ceiling too much. Obviously the line wasn’t great and the weapons were pretty basic, but it’s been a characteristic of his game. He needs to improve his downfield accuracy and his willingness to take chances. Hopefully with more weapons he does. The contract isn’t bad, and i’m glad it’s structured the way it is. It’s a show me contract of sorts.
Expand ...
He has plenty to work on, he is far from great, but like I said the comment by "any 2022 metric, he was middle-of-the-pack mediocre" is flat out false.

Your comment he needs to improve his downfield accuracy? I will leave these for you

heavy.com

Daniel Jones Leads All NFL Quarterbacks in One Explosive Stat Since 2020

New York Giants quarterback Daniel Jones throws one of the best deep balls in the entire NFL.
heavy.com heavy.com

 
HeGotGame said:
He has plenty to work on, he is far from great, but like I said the comment by "any 2022 metric, he was middle-of-the-pack mediocre" is flat out false.

Your comment he needs to improve his downfield accuracy? I will leave these for you

heavy.com

Daniel Jones Leads All NFL Quarterbacks in One Explosive Stat Since 2020

New York Giants quarterback Daniel Jones throws one of the best deep balls in the entire NFL.
heavy.com heavy.com

Expand ...

Not to mention his job was to execute the offense that Daboll and Kafka wanted him to run.

They didn't throw downfield because they had WR who were physically incapable of being deep threats.

To me the bottom line is that in spite of all of that, he won a must win prime time division game that was essentially do or die against Washington and then had the best game of his career in a road playoff game. He's tough, smart, teammates and coaches love him, and I really don't think we've seen his ceiling.

If he falls on his face? Cut bait after two years and draft a QB... Which is exactly where you'd be right now if you didn't resign him anyway..not as if this is a SB roster with the QB holding them back.
 
HeGotGame said:
He has plenty to work on, he is far from great, but like I said the comment by "any 2022 metric, he was middle-of-the-pack mediocre" is flat out false.

Your comment he needs to improve his downfield accuracy? I will leave these for you

heavy.com

Daniel Jones Leads All NFL Quarterbacks in One Explosive Stat Since 2020

New York Giants quarterback Daniel Jones throws one of the best deep balls in the entire NFL.
heavy.com heavy.com

Expand ...
Neither of those articles were from this most recent season. I don’t have stats or analytics to show, but I remember him overthrowing Slayton a few times on deep shots. And Slayton is very hard to overthrow
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
Neither of those articles were from this most recent season. I don’t have stats or analytics to show, but I remember him overthrowing Slayton a few times on deep shots. And Slayton is very hard to overthrow
Expand ...
Yep he wasn’t perfect.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
Neither of those articles were from this most recent season. I don’t have stats or analytics to show, but I remember him overthrowing Slayton a few times on deep shots. And Slayton is very hard to overthrow
Expand ...
I don't remember many overthrows (and that could be on the WR every but as easily as it could be on the QB) but I do remember late in the season a graphic posted during a game that said Slayton had the highest drop rate of any WR in the league with more than a certain amount of targets.

For 2023 what we need to worry about is growth in DJ's overall game, improvement on the OL (not worried about the tackles, one is a pro bowl player, the other should take a huge step forward in his second season. I am very concerned with the interior three) and adding a true #1 WR.

Worst case scenario on this contract will be two years of paying DJ at a little below market for a middle of the road QB followed by a season (where we should have some room) with a bit of a dead cap hit (looks like it would be $12-$15 million if he's gone after two seasons).

If the idea that bringing him back was necessary, this contract was a win for the team (tagging him would have cost us Saquon and would have added the future dead money hit to 2023). The only other alternative would have been to let him walk and if that was the better move, I need to know who would be our QB and how is that an overall upgrade.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
Neither of those articles were from this most recent season. I don’t have stats or analytics to show, but I remember him overthrowing Slayton a few times on deep shots. And Slayton is very hard to overthrow
Expand ...
He was 12th in deep ball catch rate this year. I don't have his EPA numbers for it.
 
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CardiacAndre7 said:
His average depth of target was 6.5 yards also, which was bottom of the league. He didn’t take chances, which is good much of the time, but he didn’t raise the ceiling too much. Obviously the line wasn’t great and the weapons were pretty basic, but it’s been a characteristic of his game. He needs to improve his downfield accuracy and his willingness to take chances. Hopefully with more weapons he does. The contract isn’t bad, and i’m glad it’s structured the way it is. It’s a show me contract of sorts.
Expand ...

Stats can be cherrypicked and manipulated to tell almost any story. Every stat mentioned by @HeGotGame above is absolutely valid. So is every one of these:

11th in record (QBs w/=>9 starts)
14th in QB Rating (7th in QBR because he's mobile).
15th in passing yards
21st in TDs
28th in TD%
14th pass att
11th pass comp
25th Sack%

I also think there is a little too much weight being put on a single road playoff win. Active QBs with a single road playoff win include John Wolford, Baker Mayfield, Jared Goff, and Marcus Mariota. Jimmy G and Ryan Tannehill have two. Other than Goff...maybe, none likely have a snowball's chance to cash in like Jones did.

From the outside looking in, the Giants were ready to move on from Jones a year ago, but let him play out the string. His play improved in the meantime with the addition of a new coach, causing the Giants to look to save face (which they surprisingly did BTW).

There is no denying that Jones had a better 2022 than his first three seasons, but considering how awful that span was, I don't think it's an exaggeration to suggest, nor conclude that Schoen reset the market with a mediocre quarterback.

C'est la vie. Congrats, Giants fans, on keeping your guy.
 
Husky25 said:
Stats can be cherrypicked and manipulated to tell almost any story. Every stat mentioned by @HeGotGame above is absolutely valid. So is every one of these:

11th in record (QBs w/=>9 starts)
14th in QB Rating (7th in QBR because he's mobile).
15th in passing yards
21st in TDs
28th in TD%
14th pass att
11th pass comp
25th Sack%

I also think there is a little too much weight being put on a single road playoff win. Active QBs with a single road playoff win include John Wolford, Baker Mayfield, Jared Goff, and Marcus Mariota. Jimmy G and Ryan Tannehill have two. Other than Goff...maybe, none likely have a snowball's chance to cash in like Jones did.

From the outside looking in, the Giants were ready to move on from Jones a year ago, but let him play out the string. His play improved in the meantime with the addition of a new coach, causing the Giants to look to save face (which they surprisingly did BTW).

There is no denying that Jones had a better 2022 than his first three seasons, but considering how awful that span was, I don't think it's an exaggeration to suggest, nor conclude that Schoen reset the market with a mediocre quarterback.

C'est la vie. Congrats, Giants fans, on keeping your guy.
Expand ...
I appreciate you admitting you were wrong.

And yes, as you proved, stats can be cherry picked, like you only picking ones that completely eliminate one of his best attributes, his legs. Whatever it takes to try to prove your point thought right?

I would give up on the Jones stuff and worry about your own house. Here is the all important value over replacement metric:

7th- Daniel Jones
33rd - Mac Jones

QB Rankings | nfelo.app

Data driven rankings of NFL QBs
www.nfeloapp.com www.nfeloapp.com

Oh, and 2 of the guys you listed have significantly higher cap hits in 2023, one them is double the cap hit.
 
HeGotGame said:
I appreciate you admitting you were wrong.

And yes, as you proved, stats can be cherry picked, like you only picking ones that completely eliminate one of his best attributes, his legs. Whatever it takes to try to prove your point thought right?

I would give up on the Jones stuff and worry about your own house. Here is the all important value over replacement metric:

7th- Daniel Jones
33rd - Mac Jones

QB Rankings | nfelo.app

Data driven rankings of NFL QBs
www.nfeloapp.com www.nfeloapp.com

Oh, and 2 of the guys you listed have significantly higher cap hits in 2023, one them is double the cap hit.
Expand ...
I gave Schoen props multiple times over the last couple days. Doesn't change my opinion that D. Jones is mediocre, nor the fact that the Giants (and their fans) were comfortable moving on, before saving face by overpaying him and resetting the market.

There is a lot of noise coming out of Foxborough about Mac Jones, and I don't understand it, unless they truly think Patricia and Judge completely broke him. I don't think they do, and I don't think he is. Coaching is more important in no other sport than football. Mac was a Pro Bowler as a rookie and they have at least one more year - this time with competent offensive coaching/play calling - to see what they have in him and which season was the outlier. The Giants showed the league a path forward to retaining a player after declining the 5th year option.
 
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Husky25 said:
Stats can be cherrypicked and manipulated to tell almost any story. Every stat mentioned by @HeGotGame above is absolutely valid. So is every one of these:

11th in record (QBs w/=>9 starts)
14th in QB Rating (7th in QBR because he's mobile).
15th in passing yards
21st in TDs
28th in TD%
14th pass att
11th pass comp
25th Sack%

I also think there is a little too much weight being put on a single road playoff win. Active QBs with a single road playoff win include John Wolford, Baker Mayfield, Jared Goff, and Marcus Mariota. Jimmy G and Ryan Tannehill have two. Other than Goff...maybe, none likely have a snowball's chance to cash in like Jones did.

From the outside looking in, the Giants were ready to move on from Jones a year ago, but let him play out the string. His play improved in the meantime with the addition of a new coach, causing the Giants to look to save face (which they surprisingly did BTW).

There is no denying that Jones had a better 2022 than his first three seasons, but considering how awful that span was, I don't think it's an exaggeration to suggest, nor conclude that Schoen reset the market with a mediocre quarterback.

C'est la vie. Congrats, Giants fans, on keeping your guy.
Expand ...

Happy with him being a Giant. I’d prefer to think that both Schoen and Dabol believe he’s much better than mediocre based on their football knowledge. They see this year as the tip of the iceberg.
 



Still no WR1 but Campbell, Hodgins, Wandale, Shepard is a pretty solid WR2-WR5 and then Barkley/Waller/Bellinger as targets too
 
Separated at birth Kelsey Plum & the Joker?

Screenshot_20230316-133135_Chrome.jpg
Screenshot_20230316-133303_Chrome.jpg
 
navery12 said:



Still no WR1 but Campbell, Hodgins, Wandale, Shepard is a pretty solid WR2-WR5 and then Barkley/Waller/Bellinger as targets too
Expand ...

Cheap too at 1 year $3 mill. Great low risk signing. Amazing the difference between the last two regimes and this one in free agency
 
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