2017 Gold Cup

[Kgun7]

You ever seen him play in person? He's pretty good.

Altidore is crap. He has like a million caps against Nicaragua's B team. Ignore the goals.

You're channeling your inner Buddy Ryan ... "All Altidore does is score goals" ....

 

[shizzle787]

This final is must win. The confed cup in 2021 may or may not happen. But we need to be there if it does, and winning Wednesday is one half of the way home.

 

[SubbaBub]

Dempsey
Wood
Dwyer
Morris
A healthy Aron Johansson if there is a such thing


Dozy is just legacy.

Johansson has been a disappointment at the national level, though we haven't seen much of him since '14.

Agudelo and Jozy are fighting for 5th with Sargent in the wings.

With Dempsey, Wood, Morris, and Dwyer you have 2 full 90's of depth at striker. Assuming we go with 2 up top.

There are a lot of guys that are about equal fighting for spots and fitting the best 11 into a workable formation will be tougher than it has even been.

Do you play 4-3-3 with Pulisic Dempsey and Wood? A diamond with Pulisic under Dempsey and Wood with Johnson and TBD on the flanks? 0r do you play a 3-5-2 with two of Bradley/Jones/Acosta under Pulisic and it front of 3 center backs?

 

[businesslawyer]

So this is where I have to say that your bias is getting in the way of your evaluations.

In other breaking news, the Earth is not flat.

 

[businesslawyer]

You ever seen him play in person? He's pretty good.

Altidore is crap. He has like a million caps against Nicaragua's B team. Ignore the goals.

Man, you're insufferable. I need to make sure I understand your logic. Jozy sucks because he couldn't score goals in the Barclays, and don't tell you anything about his all around play and how long he held his starting job even unable to score goals. But when he scores goals, ignore them because that isn't what counts.

Got it. It's like arguing with Rich or Palatine in the Cesspool. Dom Dwyer is not getting on a plane to Russia in front of Jozy Altidore. And the only coach we could appoint who would have a different view would be you. Sheesh.

 

[Palatine]

I'm confused by the love for Nagbe. The one time he was in position to do something he nutmegged himself. He made some nice moves but they seemed to be in a vacuum, leading nowhere.

Nagbe is the one player on the team you can trust when he has the ball. And on a team that often plays like turnovers are the goal of the game, that is saying something. His ability to move from the center of the field to threaten the box is the best on the squad.

He doesn't finish. True. If could finish he would be the best player on the squad. He is still very dangerous and puts the offense in plus situations. Watch the Altidore goal. Bradley gets the ball to Nagbe on the Costa Rica side of the field. He avoids two defenders, runs to his right, takes a hit and maintains possession, crosses midfield, slows and delivers easy to handle pass to Dempsey. Hockey assist.

If he ever does figure out how to put the ball on net.... in any case, he is still very valuable as he is.

 

[UConnDan97]

In other breaking news, the Earth is not flat.

I thought I would win him over with a calm patience. I've already had the knock down drag out battles with him and they get old fast.

I still get a good chuckle every time I see a right-footed right-wing back play as a left-center back and I think of Zoo, when he called me a dummy who didn't understand soccer for suggesting such a thing. Most recently, Barzagli did it for Juve against Barca in the game in NY on Saturday, so as to make room for Lichtsteiner and Benatia. Comical stuff.

Zoo is....difficult...

 

[meyers7]

You ever seen him play in person? He's pretty good.

Altidore is crap. He has like a million caps against Nicaragua's B team. Ignore the goals.

You have a brilliant soccer mind dude.

(kinda the whole point of a striker isn't it?) (not really asking, cause .... well, you know)

 

[ZooCougar]

You have a brilliant soccer mind dude.

(kinda the whole point of a striker isn't it?) (not really asking, cause ---. well, you know)

If they have come against crap competition then they should be taken with a heavy dose of salt.

He's crap.

 

[ZooCougar]

I thought I would win him over with a calm patience. I've already had the knock down drag out battles with him and they get old fast.

I still get a good chuckle every time I see a right-footed right-wing back play as a left-center back and I think of Zoo, when he called me a dummy who didn't understand soccer for suggesting such a thing. Most recently, Barzagli did it for Juve against Barca in the game in NY on Saturday, so as to make room for Lichtsteiner and Benatia. Comical stuff.

Zoo is.---difficult...

Doesn't mean you weren't wrong. And you were.

 

[UConnDan97]

Doesn't mean you weren't wrong. And you were.

Yup. I'm so wrong that top notch coaches making millions of dollars continue to repeat the "mistake". You're pure comedy, brotha...

 

[SubbaBub]

Nagbe had a really good game but I don't see him as a better option than Johnson on the left. He hasn't done as well in the middle where it is more congested. The guy can dribble though.

In the channel between midfield and the attacking 18, he is the best we have with the ball. I don't know who he is bumping from the starting 11, though regardless of formation. Yedlin would be the closest I think in a wing back role.

 

[SubbaBub]

People pointing to Jozy's goal totals are missing the point. There was nothing particularly special about his last goal.

It was teed up perfectly and he shot it right at the keeper. It just happened to be hit hard enough to deflect off his arm and in. It could have deflected in any direction. He hits that same shot 10 times it goes in maybe half the time.

While he may or may not have an above average sense for making those shots, it doesn't excuse the rest of his shortcomings. Whatever formation we end up playing in 18, we need the strikers to help pressure the ball and move defenders around, make good diagonal runs. He isn't very good at any of that. He can't dribble the ball for more than 15 feet without great difficulty. His assets are his size, ability to physically occupy defenders, hold them off, turn and fire. While there are teams that would help the US beat, almost none of them will be in Russia in 2018.

Guys like Wondo miss from 3 yards out, guys like Wood hit the post more than he should, Dwyer disappeared for stretches in the three games he's played. Dempsey is old, and Morris is green. I don't really know what Agudelo is. They all have faults but Jozy is the least adaptable player of the group.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

At times, Zoo may be difficult to even insufferable in some opinions. Inconveniently, more often than not and more frequently than most others his comments are correct. For example, when referencing Dom Dwyer as slow as molasses, the Dozer's touch as being on par with a rusty bulldozer, a few too many US MLS players avoiding stepping up to the enhanced competition and potential benefits of heading to Europe in a good developmental league or even to Mexico with clubs they have a reasonable opportunity with to earn decent playing time, etc. Yup, it sukks when Zoo's correct as often as it occurs. Stop that Zoo!

 

[SAMCRO]

back to games/players. Has anyone heard if Jose Corona has made it to the border yet? His positioning was so bad on the free kick Jamaica scored on, and his double hesitation in getting to the ball... I just assumed they made him get his own ride home.

I only caught the final 10 minutes of Jamaica v Mexico, and the final and the final 25 minutes us US v CR Saturday night.... which is probably all I needed to see (in terms of goals, at least). I missed most of Blake's amazing saves, but sounds like he stood on his head for Jamaica. It will be interesting to see how US defense handles the speed of Jamaica down the flanks. Their counter attack could cause some trouble. They looked so much faster than Mexico at almost every position. I predict the US wins 3-1.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

People pointing to Jozy's goal totals are missing the point. There was nothing particularly special about his last goal. It was teed up perfectly and he shot it right at the keeper. He hits that same shot 10 times it goes in maybe half the time.

Yup, the Dozer STILL shot it right at the keeper. Shots going in half the time's even generous; maybe 2-3 times on slick grass or when the keeper just blows a save. With Hull, the Dozer's laser-focused ability to nail his few shots directly at keepers was downright impressive. Fast forward a few years, little to nothing's improved. Same same Dozer!

 

[meyers7]

If they have come against crap competition then they should be taken with a heavy dose of salt.

He's crap.

At times, Zoo may be difficult to even insufferable in some opinions. Inconveniently, more often than not and more frequently than most others his comments are correct. For example, when referencing Dom Dwyer as slow as molasses, the Dozer's touch as being on par with a rusty bulldozer, a few too many US MLS players avoiding stepping up to the enhanced competition and potential benefits of heading to Europe in a good developmental league or even to Mexico with clubs they have a reasonable opportunity with to earn decent playing time, etc. Yup, it sukks when Zoo's correct as often as it occurs. Stop that Zoo!

I'm having trouble figuring out who's funnier.

 

[Kgun7]

At times, Zoo may be difficult to even insufferable in some opinions. Inconveniently, more often than not and more frequently than most others his comments are correct. For example, when referencing Dom Dwyer as slow as molasses, the Dozer's touch as being on par with a rusty bulldozer, a few too many US MLS players avoiding stepping up to the enhanced competition and potential benefits of heading to Europe in a good developmental league or even to Mexico with clubs they have a reasonable opportunity with to earn decent playing time, etc. Yup, it sukks when Zoo's correct as often as it occurs. Stop that Zoo!

Sometimes the opportunities of European Football are not in the direct control of those MLS players. Pulisic (Croatian), Miazga (Polish), and Gooch (English/Irish) all had a built-in European Passport advantage. Twellman (MLS would not sell him in 2007 to PNE), Augudello (the English FA denied Stoke twice), and DMB (FA denied Southampton) never did get opportunities. And Bocanegra only secured a Fulham move after they appealed. This is a major reason for the lack of American footballers in Europe that the average fan really does not understand.

 

[Palatine]

I don't think Altidore is anything special. But on his goal versus Costa Rica. He anticipated Dempsey's pass and timed his run perfectly. He deserves some credit for his awareness and execution. And, of course, he finished....which is not a given on this squad.

 

[Waquoit]

People pointing to Jozy's goal totals are missing the point. There was nothing particularly special about his last goal.
It was teed up perfectly and he shot it right at the keeper. It just happened to be hit hard enough to deflect off his arm and in. It could have deflected in any direction. He hits that same shot 10 times it goes in maybe half the time.

I'm not a Jozy fan. I don't want him on the WC team. But the man scored the winning goal. Belittling that achievement (or any goal anyone scores) is no way to win an argument. Goals are hard and he made the right run.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Sometimes the opportunities of European Football are not in the direct control of those MLS players. This is a major reason for the lack of American footballers in Europe that the average fan really does not understand.

Such overwhelmingly insightful revelations are important ...

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'm not a Jozy fan. I don't want him on the WC team. But the man scored the winning goal. Belittling that achievement (or any goal anyone scores) is no way to win an argument. Goals are hard and he made the right run.

He did what was needed for sure, even if a better player would have placed it entirely to the left of the keeper and still on net. But the impressive part for me was Dempsey's pass. The rarest of rare things for U.S. soccer, a ball hit with perfect pace that didn't harmlessly go across the end line for a GK.

It's hard for me to see him as one of our best options on this squad. It's just not really what we need from a forward.

 

[meyers7]

I don't think Altidore is anything special.

I agree. But there is very little in the USA player pool that is "special". The Pool is improving, but you gotta work with what you got sometimes.

 

[UConnDan97]

I agree. But there is very little in the USA player pool that is "special". The Pool is improving, but you gotta work with what you got sometimes.

This is where I'm at also.

Jozy is not the answer at striker for the US if we want to compete with the big boys. But having said that, it's hard for me to come up with a top 5 striker listing that doesn't include him in it. For the record, I'd be more than happy for the WC Qualifiers to be Wood and Dempsey up top with Altidore and Morris on the bench. But leaving Altidore off of the current squad when considering the level of striker depth we have would just be silly...

 

[businesslawyer]

In the current pool of strikers we have, assuming you don't play Pulisic as a striker, the only two who you can make a case are clearly better than Jozy are Wood and Dempsey. And Dempsey is not going to play 90 minutes every 4 or 5 days through a World Cup cycle and neither of them (nor anyone in our player pool) is half as good as Jozy at hold up play as a lone striker. So Jozy is going to Moscow, and who starts and plays will depend on the team that Arena thinks will have the talent and style giving him the best chance to win. Morris has a defined role he is useful at, but is not as good an overall player as Jozy. He's just not. Neither is Dwyer or Agudelo or anyone else in our pool.

If Green can start actually getting on the field in Germany, or Johanson recovers to his pre-injury form, and they get to a level above Altidore great. But as for now, we are who we are. And like it or not, Altidore is an important piece of it.

 

[meyers7]

This is where I'm at also.

Jozy is not the answer at striker for the US if we want to compete with the big boys. But having said that, it's hard for me to come up with a top 5 striker listing that doesn't include him in it. For the record, I'd be more than happy for the WC Qualifiers to be Wood and Dempsey up top with Altidore and Morris on the bench. But leaving Altidore off of the current squad when considering the level of striker depth we have would just be silly...

Agree, I personally prefer Wood in Altidore's Striker/point role (if we are going to play Dempsey from the start). At this point though I don't think Dempsey is going to start all the games. I think he'll move to more and more as an impact sub.

So I think it should be looking at Wood and ??? (Altidore, Morris, Agudelo, Dwyer, ???? with 2 strikers, or maybe Pulisic in the Dempsey role - withdrawn FW). But start with Wood and go from there, not start with Altidore.

 

[meyers7]

In the current pool of strikers we have, assuming you don't play Pulisic as a striker, the only two who you can make a case are clearly better than Jozy are Wood and Dempsey. And Dempsey is not going to play 90 minutes every 4 or 5 days through a World Cup cycle and neither of them (nor anyone in our player pool) is half as good as Jozy at hold up play as a lone striker. So Jozy is going to Moscow, and who starts and plays will depend on the team that Arena thinks will have the talent and style giving him the best chance to win. Morris has a defined role he is useful at, but is not as good an overall player as Jozy. He's just not. Neither is Dwyer or Agudelo or anyone else in our pool.

If Green can start actually getting on the field in Germany, or Johanson recovers to his pre-injury form, and they get to a level above Altidore great. But as for now, we are who we are. And like it or not, Altidore is an important piece of it.

I'm fine with that at this point. Altidore is easily in the top 5 list of strikers/forwards.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Agree, I personally prefer Wood in Altidore's Striker/point role (if we are going to play Dempsey from the start). At this point though I don't think Dempsey is going to start all the games. I think he'll move to more and more as an impact sub.

So I think it should be looking at Wood and ??? (Altidore, Morris, Agudelo, Dwyer, ???? with 2 strikers, or maybe Pulisic in the Dempsey role - withdrawn FW). But start with Wood and go from there, not start with Altidore.

Agreed. Wood has a higher work rate, and is much better helping on defense. He's also got more speed. I'm not sure what the best combination is. I'm inclined towards Wood and Dempsey to start, and Jozy and Morris as subs. I think Morris' high work rate can be valuable in some situations. Not sure who would be #5 between Dwyer and Aguelo. May not need one if you feel you can move Pulisic up. But our attacking midfield ranks are even thinner.

 

[dvegas]

Good Luck Andre (not) lol

 

[Palatine]

Nagbe had a really good game but I don't see him as a better option than Johnson on the left. He hasn't done as well in the middle where it is more congested. The guy can dribble though.

In the channel between midfield and the attacking 18, he is the best we have with the ball. I don't know who he is bumping from the starting 11, though regardless of formation. Yedlin would be the closest I think in a wing back role.

I agree that Johnson probably starts on the World Cup squad. But Nagbe is good insurance for an injury and... he would a make a good late sub as an activity catalyst. He definitely could come in and bring speed and energy.