2017 Gold Cup | Page 4 | The Boneyard

2017 Gold Cup

Better is in terms of commitment from the players.

It's also better in terms of fewer head scratching lineup decisions.

The back 4 last night all but played themselves out of WC consideration. That's something useful. If any of these guys are first choice you can go back to criticizing him.
 
SAMCRO said:
I don't see how Qatar can host a Con Fed Cup since it would be unrealistic to play it in the summer in the dessert, and FIFA/UEFA is not going to allow them to disrupt league play 2 seasons in a row.
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Who needs to be realistic when you are one of the wealthiest countries in the world?

 
SubbaBub said:
Better is in terms of commitment from the players.

It's also better in terms of fewer head scratching lineup decisions.

The back 4 last night all but played themselves out of WC consideration. That's something useful. If any of these guys are first choice you can go back to criticizing him.
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You didn't think yesterday's lineup was a head scratcher?

Watching that dipsght Dozy Altidore was probably enough to make Dom Dwyer want to renounce his citizenship.
 
Watching that dipsght Dozy Altidore was probably enough to make Dom Dwyer want to renounce his citizenship.

JSMH
 
Former uconn keeper Andre Blake is having a nice tourney for Jamaica.
 
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SAMCRO said:
I don't see how Qatar can host a Con Fed Cup since it would be unrealistic to play it in the summer in the dessert, and FIFA/UEFA is not going to allow them to disrupt league play 2 seasons in a row.
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I believe FIFA has decided that the 2021 Confed Cup will be hosted in an Asian nation during the summer months, like China, where it's not 130 degrees :rolleyes:
 
ZooCougar said:
You didn't think yesterday's lineup was a head scratcher?
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Other than Hedges, no, not really. What didn't you understand??

ZooCougar said:
Watching that dipsght Dozy Altidore was probably enough to make Dom Dwyer want to renounce his citizenship.
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Altidore had a decent game.
 
meyers7 said:
Other than Hedges, no, not really. What didn't you understand??



Altidore had a decent game.
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What game were watching? The only time he moved quick was when the other team went for the purple n
meyers7 said:
Other than Hedges, no, not really. What didn't you understand??



Altidore had a decent game.
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What game were you watching?

The only time Dozy Altidore moved quickly was when he was getting the purple nurple.
 
gtcam said:
Watching that dipsght Dozy Altidore was probably enough to make Dom Dwyer want to renounce his citizenship.

JSMH
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Mediocrity is celebrated here. Welcome.
 
ZooCougar said:
What game were watching? The only time he moved quick was when the other team went for the purple n


What game were you watching?

The only time Dozy Altidore moved quickly was when he was getting the purple nurple.
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Obviously not the one you were watching. (USA-El Salvador 2017, maybe you caught a replay from some other Gold Cup???)

He won quite a few headers/flick-ons and held the ball up pretty well a few times. Not saying he had a "good" game (nobody really did), but he was decent.
 
meyers7 said:
Obviously not the one you were watching. (USA-El Salvador 2017, maybe you caught a replay from some other Gold Cup???)

He won quite a few headers/flick-ons and held the ball up pretty well a few times. Not saying he had a "good" game (nobody really did), but he was decent.
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Sweet. Literally every forward in the pool can do that.

He's simply not there on merit. Sending Dwyer back who was actually playing well and putting in that lumbering donkey just sends a terrible message. It's obvious certain players have "tenure" under Arena.
 
.-.
ZooCougar said:
Sweet. Literally every forward in the pool can do that.

He's simply not there on merit. Sending Dwyer back who was actually playing well and putting in that lumbering donkey just sends a terrible message. It's obvious certain players have "tenure" under Arena.
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I don't remember Dwyer winning many header. And he's definitely not as good at hold up play as Altidore. He does seem to have many other attributes though.

As for sending Dwyer back, I imagine Arena has seen what he wanted to see from Dwyer. Knows what he's got. Agudelo... probably wants to take a longer look at him. And Agudelo can play on the wings too. Not really sure about that with Dwyer, he's more a "fox in the box" type of FW. And with Dempsey being brought in, well, there you go.

As for merit, yea I guess being the #3 MNT goal scorer is no merit. His goals per game is pretty close to Don Ovan's (not up with Dempsey's granted). Geez dude, do you even think about what you're writing??
 
ZooCougar said:
Matt Hedges sucks, even in MLS. Besler should be in there.
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I find it harder and harder to agree with you at times. But on this you are dead on right. On a team that has had tons of sucky performances, to stand out at sucking the way he did is truly remarkable.
 
ZooCougar said:
Still haven't seen one good reason why this team is better without Klinsmann.

Talent Pool.
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You haven't? Really? So you've seen performances where we've looked as totally confused at how the Coach wants them to play as we looked in Colombus against Mexico? Or you've seen us look as woefully inferior to a team as we did at Costa Rica. (Note -- if it was the latter you went to bed drunk one night, because we haven't lost yet since the coaching change).

I get that Klinsman is a German and Arena has only coached in MLS, and I'm not even going to tell you that I think Arena is a better coach than Klinsman (which I do but it doesn't matter). JK lost the team. Bruce has it. We have been far, far, far from overwhelming since the changeover. But the changeover happened not because we were far from overwhelming, but because we sucked and the coach lost the locker room. It shouldn't be that difficult to grasp.

Our player pool needs to be better. Right now, it seems below where it's been even over the last decade. That has nothing to do with JK. But he still needed to go.
 
ZooCougar said:
Mediocrity is celebrated here. Welcome.
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Jozy did not have anything like a good game. But in a real federation with real referees, if he was played the way the Salvadorans played him we would have finished with an 11 on 8 or 9 advantage.
 
meyers7 said:
I don't remember Dwyer winning many header. And he's definitely not as good at hold up play as Altidore. He does seem to have many other attributes though.

As for sending Dwyer back, I imagine Arena has seen what he wanted to see from Dwyer. Knows what he's got. Agudelo... probably wants to take a longer look at him. And Agudelo can play on the wings too. Not really sure about that with Dwyer, he's more a "fox in the box" type of FW. And with Dempsey being brought in, well, there you go.

As for merit, yea I guess being the #3 MNT goal scorer is no merit. His goals per game is pretty close to Don Ovan's (not up with Dempsey's granted). Geez dude, do you even think about what you're writing??
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LMAO comparing someone to Landon Donovan and thinking that is winning you points with Wisky (cougar).
 
I feel compelled to chime in (not sure why), so this is my take on the situation:

1) Arena > Klinsmann. Not by leaps and bounds, mind you. Arena is not Antonio Conte by any stretch. But the players play for him and understand what he's looking for.

2) Jozy didn't have a good game. BizLaw's point about him being surrounded by what I would term as a pack of hyenas, biting away at him literally, probably had something to do with that. I'm not a big Altidore fan, but I can't hold that game against him.

3) Zoo doesn't like Donovan.

4) I would have liked to have seen Dwyer perform with the improved roster against El Salvador, for what it's worth. We already know what Jozy gives us when Bradley, Nagbe, and Dempsey are on the field with him. I don't believe that we know what Dwyer could give us with the same support. That's a missed opportunity in my opinion. (or switch the name Dwyer with the name Agudelo).

5) I also would have liked to have seen Miazga get a second game in a row. I thought he deserved as much with his performance against Nicaragua; not just the goal, but the defensive play was sound.
 
.-.
UConnDan97 said:
I feel compelled to chime in (not sure why), so this is my take on the situation:

1) Arena > Klinsmann. Not by leaps and bounds, mind you. Arena is not Antonio Conte by any stretch. But the players play for him and understand what he's looking for.

2) Jozy didn't have a good game. BizLaw's point about him being surrounded by what I would term as a pack of hyenas, biting away at him literally, probably had something to do with that. I'm not a big Altidore fan, but I can't hold that game against him.

3) Zoo doesn't like Donovan.

4) I would have liked to have seen Dwyer perform with the improved roster against El Salvador, for what it's worth. We already know what Jozy gives us when Bradley, Nagbe, and Dempsey are on the field with him. I don't believe that we know what Dwyer could give us with the same support. That's a missed opportunity in my opinion. (or switch the name Dwyer with the name Agudelo).

5) I also would have liked to have seen Miazga get a second game in a row. I thought he deserved as much with his performance against Nicaragua; not just the goal, but the defensive play was sound.
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1. Wouldn't be surprised if Miazga gets a shot at playing alongside Omar tomorrow.

2. Saying Zoo doesn't like Donovan is like saying August West doesn't like Sophie Turner. In each case, there is clearly something personal involved.
 
businesslawyer said:
You haven't? Really? So you've seen performances where we've looked as totally confused at how the Coach wants them to play as we looked in Colombus against Mexico? Or you've seen us look as woefully inferior to a team as we did at Costa Rica. (Note -- if it was the latter you went to bed drunk one night, because we haven't lost yet since the coaching change).

I get that Klinsman is a German and Arena has only coached in MLS, and I'm not even going to tell you that I think Arena is a better coach than Klinsman (which I do but it doesn't matter). JK lost the team. Bruce has it. We have been far, far, far from overwhelming since the changeover. But the changeover happened not because we were far from overwhelming, but because we sucked and the coach lost the locker room. It shouldn't be that difficult to grasp.

Our player pool needs to be better. Right now, it seems below where it's been even over the last decade. That has nothing to do with JK. But he still needed to go.
Expand ...

I don't see any difference. I see players out of position and a bunch of different formations. With Bruce it's a country club where everyone gets a trophy.
 
meyers7 said:
I don't remember Dwyer winning many header. And he's definitely not as good at hold up play as Altidore. He does seem to have many other attributes though.

As for sending Dwyer back, I imagine Arena has seen what he wanted to see from Dwyer. Knows what he's got. Agudelo... probably wants to take a longer look at him. And Agudelo can play on the wings too. Not really sure about that with Dwyer, he's more a "fox in the box" type of FW. And with Dempsey being brought in, well, there you go.

As for merit, yea I guess being the #3 MNT goal scorer is no merit. His goals per game is pretty close to Don Ovan's (not up with Dempsey's granted). Geez dude, do you even think about what you're writing??
Expand ...

You still think Dozy is the same player? 2009 isn't walking through that door.

Do you even know what year it is?
 
ZooCougar said:
You still think Dozy is the same player? 2009 isn't walking through that door.

Do you even know what year it is?
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Well according to MY calender it's 2017 (not sure what year you're living in). And no, I think Altidore has improved since 2009. Is he great? No. Did he play decent in the game we (at least I) was talking about? Yea.
 
.-.
businesslawyer said:
I find it harder and harder to agree with you at times. But on this you are dead on right. On a team that has had tons of sucky performances, to stand out at sucking the way he did is truly remarkable.
Expand ...
Hedges is crap. His playing in a meaningful game like tonight would be all I need to buy the MLS conspiracy theory.
 
UConnDan97 said:
I feel compelled to chime in (not sure why), so this is my take on the situation:

1) Arena > Klinsmann. Not by leaps and bounds, mind you. Arena is not Antonio Conte by any stretch. But the players play for him and understand what he's looking for.

2) Jozy didn't have a good game. BizLaw's point about him being surrounded by what I would term as a pack of hyenas, biting away at him literally, probably had something to do with that. I'm not a big Altidore fan, but I can't hold that game against him.

3) Zoo doesn't like Donovan.

4) I would have liked to have seen Dwyer perform with the improved roster against El Salvador, for what it's worth. We already know what Jozy gives us when Bradley, Nagbe, and Dempsey are on the field with him. I don't believe that we know what Dwyer could give us with the same support. That's a missed opportunity in my opinion. (or switch the name Dwyer with the name Agudelo).

5) I also would have liked to have seen Miazga get a second game in a row. I thought he deserved as much with his performance against Nicaragua; not just the goal, but the defensive play was sound.
Expand ...


I generally agree with all of this. The team plays for BA in a way it didn't for JK. Doesn't need to be any more complicated than that for a team that was in last place and will likely go into the last qualifier without a guarantee to advance to Russia.

Jozy is Jozy. He is limited, provides little more than a large body. If you need a space eater, he is your guy. If you need someone who can dribble, stretch defenders, make runs, press, outrun anyone, or win balls in the air then you better look elsewhere. If you are looking for a guy with a track record on staying fit you also better look elsewhere. He was billed as being a better version of Brian McBride when we had zero true strikers, he ain't. We also aren't stuck using midfielders (Donovan, Dempsey the younger version) or guys show score by picking up the garbage (Wynalda, Stewart).

Wood, Dwyer, Agudelo, and Dempsey the elder all offer more than Jozy. Throw in Morris and you have 5 more reliable and viable options to pair with Pulisic and whoever plays the outside regardless of formation. Dempsey and Dwyer hold up as well or better than Jozy, Wood and Morris are faster and Agudelo is better with the ball. What does Jozy bring that offsets, his low goals per game rating, his lack of back tracking and his general lack of movement? Two or three outlets and two or three fouls drawn aren't enough. I think he was brought in solely to avoid the story if he wasn't brought in. The forward spots behind a healthy and in form Dempsey will go to final roster announcement for Russia. Don't think we need to do that but Bruce is keeping all options open, so I can't fault him for that until he actually puts Jozy ahead of someone more deserving. Remember, Bruce is about managing the locker room as much as the team on the field.

The roster pool for this tournament is what it is. There is no reason to question the lineups that closely. Arena is clearly rotating players. No one in the back has distinguished themselves against weak competition.
 
SubbaBub said:
I generally agree with all of this. The team plays for BA in a way it didn't for JK. Doesn't need to be any more complicated than that for a team that was in last place and will likely go into the last qualifier without a guarantee to advance to Russia.

Jozy is Jozy. He is limited, provides little more than a large body. If you need a space eater, he is your guy. If you need someone who can dribble, stretch defenders, make runs, press, outrun anyone, or win balls in the air then you better look elsewhere. If you are looking for a guy with a track record on staying fit you also better look elsewhere. He was billed as being a better version of Brian McBride when we had zero true strikers, he ain't. We also aren't stuck using midfielders (Donovan, Dempsey the younger version) or guys show score by picking up the garbage (Wynalda, Stewart).

Wood, Dwyer, Agudelo, and Dempsey the elder all offer more than Jozy. Throw in Morris and you have 5 more reliable and viable options to pair with Pulisic and whoever plays the outside regardless of formation. Dempsey and Dwyer hold up as well or better than Jozy, Wood and Morris are faster and Agudelo is better with the ball. What does Jozy bring that offsets, his low goals per game rating, his lack of back tracking and his general lack of movement? Two or three outlets and two or three fouls drawn aren't enough. I think he was brought in solely to avoid the story if he wasn't brought in. The forward spots behind a healthy and in form Dempsey will go to final roster announcement for Russia. Don't think we need to do that but Bruce is keeping all options open, so I can't fault him for that until he actually puts Jozy ahead of someone more deserving. Remember, Bruce is about managing the locker room as much as the team on the field.

The roster pool for this tournament is what it is. There is no reason to question the lineups that closely. Arena is clearly rotating players. No one in the back has distinguished themselves against weak competition.
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Agreed. Once upon a time Joy had speed. As you noted Wood and Morris are faster. Dempsey is much more crafty, and has a better touch, even if he's lazy. Morris runs his butt off out there. Jozy doesn't even give you anything in the air, like McBride did.
 
.-.
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