#1 Notre Dame vs. #9 Oregon State

[DaBball]

One thing that OSU definitely missed was the 6’5/6’6 mobile post that he is used that having. I think for at least three consecutive possesions, Shepard, guarded by Grymek, came to the high post to set a screen on Young’s defender, and Young pulled up because Grymek wasn’t quick enough to get out. I think that is where Aquino may help because she is agile and mobile - especially compared to Grymek. Hard to win a game against ND with not offensive or defensive post threat.

 

[bbballfan23]

KLS was playing in help on the posts in the FF as we had difficulties there in the earlier game. Young was left open due to her low 3 pt shooting, so I see you are blaming KLS for Geno’s game plan and the fact that the refs called an offensive foul on her that was a block and another that was non existent when she was standing straight up but what’s knew LOL

I completely agree. The calls on her were BAD. Not blaming her or Geno for her being a liability. She had to play, there is no one else better than her even at 50%. I'm just saying we didn't have the real Lou and that killed us in the end. This isn't meant to be a diss to Lou or Geno, I was just simply stating that she couldn't move. She had to play, though. Too big of a threat offensively.

 

[LoTrader]

One thing that OSU definitely missed was the 6’5/6’6 mobile post that he is used that having. I think for at least three consecutive possesions, Shepard, guarded by Grymek, came to the high post to set a screen on Young’s defender, and Young pulled up because Grymek wasn’t quick enough to get out. I think that is where Aquino may help because she is agile and mobile - especially compared to Grymek. Hard to win a game against ND with not offensive or defensive post threat.

Agreed. Patricia Morris, the 6'7" freshman, has potential. Rueck really likes her, and I believe Patricia Morris will get considerably more playing time over the next 3 months. Nobody knows what is 6'9" Andrea Aquino's issue? If OSU gets Andrea Aquino playing this year, that will help immensely. Grymek is at best, a short term substitute to rest starters. All I can say is I am encouraged by OSU at this stage of the season. It is easy to forget that Destiny Slocum only has 6 games on the books with this team. By the end of the season, Destiny Slocum will be more in synch with her OSU teammates.

 

[southofnorth]

Does anyone have any news on Andrea Aquino? Last I heard she was dealing with an injury or something.

 

[LoTrader]

Does anyone have any news on Andrea Aquino? Last I heard she was dealing with an injury or something.

Nobody knows in the State of Oregon. Even the local sports writers don't even bring it up? It is really a well kept secret.

 

[DaBball]

OSU-ND plays

For anyone interested in watching some plays in the game, this guys tweeted a lot of highlights. Slocum blew past Young a few times. She is deceptively very quick.

 

[HopJim]

Notre dame only played 7 players all game and the 2 subs added 0 points.
OSU played 5 subs that added 30 points.
Are the ND fans on their forum screaming we need bench help?

Another interesting stat
ND averages 51 points in the paint per game and gives up 28 points in the paint, per game.
UConn averages 36 points in the paint per game and only gives up 20 points in the paint per game.

Didn't see box score but if 2 subs played significant minutes throughout game this seems fine.

 

[Fightin Choke]

Didn't see box score but if 2 subs played significant minutes throughout game this seems fine.

Notre Dame actually played 4 subs, but 2 of the 4 only played 2 minutes a piece (Vaughn and Patterson). Perimeter players Abby Prohaska and Kaitlyn Gilbert played 26 minutes between them (12 and 14) and had minimal statistical impact. (They totaled 0-3 FG, 2 reb, 4 ast, 1 TO, 6 PF). But Muffet needed them to give the starters a rest (especially Mabrey who played in her first game this season yesterday but was able to log only 19 minutes). And in a game this competitive, there were no garbage minutes. They final score does not indicate how close the game was. Oregon State played tough!

 

[Fightin Choke]

IIRC Muffet said in Jackie’s freshman year that she was their best perimeter defender. No secret there. Not that Ogunbowale and Mabrey are horrible. Young is just outstanding. Yet another reason why she is even more valuable to this team than Arike imho.

Lili Thompson last year was also an excellent defender. But of course she only played half a season before her injury.

I disagree that Mabrey is horrible on the perimeter. While she has slow foot speed, she has fairly quick hands. She was extremely effective in the 2-3 zone that the Irish employed last season. Her slow foot speed is more of an issue when ND plays man-to-man defense, but she shows more effort on defense than Arike typically does, and her defensive anticipation also helps. But Jackie is clearly the best perimeter defender.

 

[Fightin Choke]

Watching that game while listening to Notre Dame's radio announcer, who is supposedly a beloved institution among the ND fans, was torture.

There are several Irish fans who cannot stand the way the guy announces a game. True he's a terrible homer, which is obvious on TV broadcasts, but he is far worse on radio! First, you cannot see for yourself whether his outrage over calls is accurate (without video evidence). Given how biased he is when he calls TV games, you have a good idea that many of the calls are perfectly good calls. Second, he gets upset and just stops play-by-play for 10-20 seconds at times because he is so outraged by the call. When he finally stops ranting, you have to check online because doesn't bother bring you up to date. It's as if he forgets that his audience is not viewing the game. Very frustrating.

 

[Fightin Choke]

A.O. finished the game 7 for 22. Key to beat ND is to stop Young.

Leave Marina alone at your peril. I figured UConn fans would remember her good games @Uconn. Plus ND has that post tandem that are a huge handful. But I'm not sure Marina's rust will be gone by Sunday's game. And I'm a bit worried about Shepard, who didn't play on Friday night vs. Drake.

 

[Bama fan]

Leave Marina alone at your peril. I figured UConn fans would remember her good games @Uconn. Plus ND has that post tandem that are a huge handful. But I'm not sure Marina's rust will be gone by Sunday's game. And I'm a bit worried about Shepard, who didn't play on Friday night vs. Drake.

I did not see the video, but it sounds as if we better beware of Ogunbowale's elbows ,too.

 

[WNBA 09]

Leave Marina alone at your peril. I figured UConn fans would remember her good games @Uconn. Plus ND has that post tandem that are a huge handful. But I'm not sure Marina's rust will be gone by Sunday's game. And I'm a bit worried about Shepard, who didn't play on Friday night vs. Drake.

Nd has so many options its become a mini uconn. Their starting 5 is tough plus the have a bench. ND plays UCONN dec 3rd right? Correct me if im wrong.

 

[Bama fan]

Nd has so many options its become a mini uconn. Their starting 5 is tough plus the have a bench. ND plays UCONN dec 3rd right? Correct me if im wrong.

As per schedule, December 2, 2018 at 1600 hours EST.

 

[LoTrader]

Notre Dame actually played 4 subs, but 2 of the 4 only played 2 minutes a piece (Vaughn and Patterson). Perimeter players Abby Prohaska and Kaitlyn Gilbert played 26 minutes between them (12 and 14) and had minimal statistical impact. (They totaled 0-3 FG, 2 reb, 4 ast, 1 TO, 6 PF). But Muffet needed them to give the starters a rest (especially Mabrey who played in her first game this season yesterday but was able to log only 19 minutes). And in a game this competitive, there were no garbage minutes. They final score does not indicate how close the game was. Oregon State played tough!

Thank you Fightin Choke for giving Oregon State the props they deserve. I was at the Notre Dame vs OSU game in Corvallis last year, and even though OSU played Notre Dame tough last year, I really was impressed how they played Notre Dame this year. I'm not the least concerned, because I know Rueck will have these kids ready come tournament time. Rueck just has to do 2 things: 1. Get Slocum's unforced turnovers to a minimum, and 2. Bring along 6'7" Patricia Morris over the next 90 days. OSU has a bunch of studs, who can all shoot, and will play great defense when it matters.

Re: Mabrey, she's a complete stud. I've always been impressed with her. She plays hard, and isn't afraid of the big moment. I think Jackie Young is the best guard in the nation. Love how calm she is....silent assassin.

 

[DaBball]

Nd has so many options its become a mini uconn. Their starting 5 is tough plus the have a bench. ND plays UCONN dec 3rd right? Correct me if im wrong.

Notre Dame looks to have no more of a bench than UConn. Coombs is just as good as, if not better than, Gilbert and Prohaska. Nelson-Ododa and Camara are just as good as Patterson, Cosgrove, and Vaughn. Muffet just uses her bench more.

 

[triaddukefan]

Leave Marina alone at your peril. I figured UConn fans would remember her good games @Uconn. Plus ND has that post tandem that are a huge handful. But I'm not sure Marina's rust will be gone by Sunday's game. And I'm a bit worried about Shepard, who didn't play on Friday night vs. Drake.

Thanks. I had no idea that ND plays UConn this coming sunday..... I was wondering what you were referring to, so I had to google your schedule.

 

[Dillon77]

Notre Dame looks to have no more of a bench than UConn. Coombs is just as good as, if not better than, Gilbert and Prohaska. Nelson-Ododa and Camara are just as good as Patterson, Cosgrove, and Vaughn. Muffet just uses her bench more.

Ah, the old potential versus kinetic energy situation pops up again.
No doubt that Coombs, Nelson-Odoba and Camara are fine talents, but one has not seen them all a whole lot.

MM has used her bench more, but just not to clear it with five minutes left against Gonzaga or Drake to give her starters a rest before the next day's game. No, she's had to use it, because of illness or injury. Freshmen Jordan Nixon (herself sick all Vancouver tournament) , Abby Prohaska and Katlyn Gilbert and Soph Danielle Patterson, have all started and/or played serious portions of games and made varying degrees of contributions.

Were they up to the level of the Irish starters? Of course not, but Gilbert had double figures in one game and Patterson helped in the absence of Shepard against Drake. Prohaska gives great effort on defense, moves the ball well and is on intimate terms with floors in North America.

So, against Oregon State, the Irish starters -- save Mabrey, making her first start of the year -- were ready to roll against a really good team making a stellar effort.

So, at some point I think the "mays" have to get in action so they "can."

 

[Dillon77]

Leave Marina alone at your peril. I figured UConn fans would remember her good games @Uconn. Plus ND has that post tandem that are a huge handful. But I'm not sure Marina's rust will be gone by Sunday's game. And I'm a bit worried about Shepard, who didn't play on Friday night vs. Drake.

Yes, but Shepard played a lot against OSU on Sunday, which OSU Coach Scott Rueck was keenly aware of, as was teammate Brianna Turner. Breezy Bri also cited Mabrey's three as the stroke that got the Irish going at the end of the game. Irish have another tough challenge with Iowa and Megan Gustafson on Thursday so some of Martina's rustiness should be sanded off by Sunday.

 

[Fightin Choke]

Yes, but Shepard played a lot against OSU on Sunday, which OSU Coach Scott Rueck was keenly aware of, as was teammate Brianna Turner. Breezy Bri also cited Mabrey's three as the stroke that got the Irish going at the end of the game. Irish have another tough challenge with Iowa and Megan Gustafson on Thursday so some of Martina's rustiness should be sanded off by Sunday.

So shocked by Iowa's loss to FSU, who hasn't looked good at all this season. The Seminoles struggled against what appears to be a pedestrian Florida Gators team and then were soundly defeated by LSU (who lost to Tulane). In general, however, the ACC has looked strong (along with the PAC12), although certain teams that have been good in the past look much weaker (FSU and Duke). Of course, that has been balanced by other ACC teams looking a bit better. Clemson has impressed against South Carolina and Tennessee, so they may elevate to the middle of the conference. BC has a pulse and may rise from the basement as well. GTech and Pitt are a mixed bag; GTech defeated an overrated Georgia team but lost their opener @Houston, while Pitt has generally looked bad, but not as bad as usual (faint praise). Syracuse has looked good as well, taking Oregon down to the buzzer in Eugene. Of course Virginia has looked truly pathetic. By the end of December, we'll have a pretty good idea of the pecking order in the ACC.

 

[Plebe]

So shocked by Iowa's loss to FSU, who hasn't looked good at all this season. The Seminoles struggled against what appears to be a pedestrian Florida Gators team and then were soundly defeated by LSU (who lost to Tulane). In general, however, the ACC has looked strong (along with the PAC12), although certain teams that have been good in the past look much weaker (FSU and Duke). Of course, that has been balanced by other ACC teams looking a bit better. Clemson has impressed against South Carolina and Tennessee, so they may elevate to the middle of the conference. BC has a pulse and may rise from the basement as well. GTech and Pitt are a mixed bag; GTech defeated an overrated Georgia team but lost their opener @Houston, while Pitt has generally looked bad, but not as bad as usual (faint praise). Syracuse has looked good as well, taking Oregon down to the buzzer in Eugene. Of course Virginia has looked truly pathetic. By the end of December, we'll have a pretty good idea of the pecking order in the ACC.

Your opinion of the ACC is a bit too rosy. I'm not sure what evidence suggests that Pitt is any better than last year. They lost to Youngstown State and were beaten soundly by Big Ten cellar-dweller Wisconsin.

Wake Forest looks significantly worse than last year. They just lost to AAC powerhouse East Carolina, following up on previous losses to VCU and Xavier. It appears that Pitt, Wake Forest, Virginia and Boston College may be the ACC bottom-feeders this year. Boston College is currently 6-0 but their schedule so far has been pathetic, with the only notable result being a 7-point win over Houston.

Clemson does look a little better than last year, but considering that Alabama smoked them by 20, I'd take the close-ish results against SC and Tenn with a grain of salt.

 

[Fightin Choke]

Your opinion of the ACC is a bit too rosy. I'm not sure what evidence suggests that Pitt is any better than last year. They lost to Youngstown State and were beaten soundly by Big Ten cellar-dweller Wisconsin.

Wake Forest looks significantly worse than last year. They just lost to AAC powerhouse East Carolina, following up on previous losses to VCU and Xavier. It appears that Pitt, Wake Forest, Virginia and Boston College may be the ACC bottom-feeders this year. Boston College is currently 6-0 but their schedule so far has been pathetic, with the only notable result being a 7-point win over Houston.

Clemson does look a little better than last year, but considering that Alabama smoked them by 20, I'd take the close-ish results against SC and Tenn with a grain of salt.

I thought I pointed out that Pitt was not good, only better than last season. I was impressed that they only lost to a pretty good UCF team by 3. Last season they finished 10-20, but maybe this season they will do worse? Perhaps I'm weighing that UCF game too heavily. I didn't assess every ACC team, and yes, Wake Forest looks terrible. I doubt they will match last season's 14-17 record. But I think BC is much better. It's true that their schedule has been very weak, but they have been destroying that competition, which says something. Their only game they did not win by at least 20 points was @Houston (64-57). Their Massey rating has climbed to 70th, which is great for them! Last season they finished ranked 212th in Massey.

Rating conferences is a zero sum game, so which conferences do you think are better than the ACC? (FYI, Massey has them rated second behind the PAC12.)

 

[Dillon77]

So shocked by Iowa's loss to FSU, who hasn't looked good at all this season. The Seminoles struggled against what appears to be a pedestrian Florida Gators team and then were soundly defeated by LSU (who lost to Tulane). In general, however, the ACC has looked strong (along with the PAC12), although certain teams that have been good in the past look much weaker (FSU and Duke). Of course, that has been balanced by other ACC teams looking a bit better. Clemson has impressed against South Carolina and Tennessee, so they may elevate to the middle of the conference. BC has a pulse and may rise from the basement as well. GTech and Pitt are a mixed bag; GTech defeated an overrated Georgia team but lost their opener @Houston, while Pitt has generally looked bad, but not as bad as usual (faint praise). Syracuse has looked good as well, taking Oregon down to the buzzer in Eugene. Of course Virginia has looked truly pathetic. By the end of December, we'll have a pretty good idea of the pecking order in the ACC.

Iowa misses Kathleen Doyle, the feisty point guard from just outside Chicago. She's the floor general and there's no one that takes her place at present. Once she's back (broken finger), Iowa will run better.

I have not sat down and seriously looked at other ACC teams quite yet, but have noted:
- Syracuse is on a roll since that close loss to Oregon, having beaten DePaul and Texas A&M. Coach Q seems to have improved his depth so his waves are more consistent;
- Miami is 6-1 with the two-headed post of Mompremier and Hof. Helps to have Laura Cornelius back to run the point, too;
- NC State is undefeated and just recently beat Michigan State and George Washington;
- Kenny Brooks has Va Tech off to a 7-0 start, but I have not seen any top opponents, save a two-point win over Villanova; and,
- And Louisville has a win over Arizona State in its 5-0 start. They play a plucky Miami of Ohio team early this week.

 

[DaBball]

Pitt has been terribly plagued by injuries and bad recruiting by McConnell-Serio that has kept them at the bottom of the ACC since her first season. They have lost Stasha Carey (Rutgers), Brenna Wise (Indiana), and Yacine Diop (Louisville) in consecutive seasons. Aysia Bugg also missed last season with an ACL and is now missing this season due to blood clots after leading the team in scoring the first few games. Suzie’s ranked 2014 class never did anything as the highest ranked player never made it to campus and each of the other 3 transferred or had injuries or both. Has been some very rough years in Pittsburgh.

If Lance White can bring some FSU recruiting skills with him, he may turn around the program. Pitt is not an easy place to recruit to. Campus is not nice at all, in fact there isn’t much of a campus.

 

[Plebe]

I thought I pointed out that Pitt was not good, only better than last season. I was impressed that they only lost to a pretty good UCF team by 3. Last season they finished 10-20, but maybe this season they will do worse? Perhaps I'm weighing that UCF game too heavily. I didn't assess every ACC team, and yes, Wake Forest looks terrible. I doubt they will match last season's 14-17 record. But I think BC is much better. It's true that their schedule has been very weak, but they have been destroying that competition, which says something. Their only game they did not win by at least 20 points was @Houston (64-57). Their Massey rating has climbed to 70th, which is great for them! Last season they finished ranked 212th in Massey.

Rating conferences is a zero sum game, so which conferences do you think are better than the ACC? (FYI, Massey has them rated second behind the PAC12.)

Good question. I wasn't speaking so much to the cross-conference comparison, but rather the team-by-team analysis. All of the P5 conferences are a tossed salad of the good, the bad and the ugly, but I tend to agree with you that probably the Pac-12 and the ACC should end up ranking as the top two. But I don't believe the ACC is on the whole any stronger than last year. It seems to be a pretty even mix of improved teams and diminished teams.

Edit to add: Actually, the SEC will also be in the mix with the other two in the overall conference rankings. I think the Big 12 will be a notch below the other three, and then the Big 10 a couple notches lower.

 

[CocoHusky]

Notre Dame's Young is espnW's player of the week

 

[PAC-12HoopFan]

Plebe is usually accurate with his/her memory, but I was at the championship game and didn't remember Pivec missing an important three-pointer in the fourth quarter so I checked the stats. Pivec did shoot 1/4 from the free throw line in the first half, but her lone three-point attempt in the game came four minutes into the third quarter with the Beavers leading 58-54. Pivec was 4/6 from the field during the second half and probably should have asserted herself by taking more shots when her team needed scoring during the final two quarters.

But Pivec was only 1-4 from the free throw line and missed a critical 3 in the 4th quarter which OSU needed to stay close.

StatBroadcast® Systems - Box Score - Oregon State 81 at Notre Dame 91

 

[Plebe]

Plebe is usually accurate with his/her memory, but I was at the championship game and didn't remember Pivec missing an important three-pointer in the fourth quarter so I checked the stats. Pivec did shoot 1/4 from the free throw line in the first half, but her lone three-point attempt in the game came four minutes into the third quarter with the Beavers leading 58-54. Pivec was 4/6 from the field during the second half and probably should have asserted herself by taking more shots when her team needed scoring during the final two quarters.


StatBroadcast® Systems - Box Score - Oregon State 81 at Notre Dame 91

Hmmm, maybe I got it confused with one that she missed in the 3rd quarter, when Oregon State was still clinging to a small lead? In any event, my apologies for the fault. All in all, Pivec was certainly a bright spot. Really Notre Dame deserves the credit for picking up their defense, chasing OSU's shooters off the 3-point line, and giving just enough help on the drives.

 

[LoTrader]

Notre Dame does deserve the credit, they are very experienced 1-5, and knew how to close out a game. And ND should have won the game vs OSU. The good news through my orange glasses (with black frames) is that in 100 days from now, I believe OSU's team will be in a position to win vs Notre Dame. Destiny Slocum needs time in the OSU system, and, Rueck must solve the 5 position, and I believe he will.

 

[j66kicker]

Notre Dame does deserve the credit, they are very experienced 1-5, and knew how to close out a game. And ND should have won the game vs OSU. The good news through my orange glasses (with black frames) is that in 100 days from now, I believe OSU's team will be in a position to win vs Notre Dame. Destiny Slocum needs time in the OSU system, and, Rueck must solve the 5 position, and I believe he will.

But ND isn't just going to stand still and not get any better over the next 100 days. They will be even more experienced 1-5, especially more experienced playing with each other. They should be "wicked good" by then.