#1 Notre Dame vs. #9 Oregon State | Page 5 | The Boneyard

#1 Notre Dame vs. #9 Oregon State

Fightin Choke

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A.O. finished the game 7 for 22. Key to beat ND is to stop Young.
Leave Marina alone at your peril. I figured UConn fans would remember her good games @Uconn. Plus ND has that post tandem that are a huge handful. But I'm not sure Marina's rust will be gone by Sunday's game. And I'm a bit worried about Shepard, who didn't play on Friday night vs. Drake.
 

Bama fan

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Leave Marina alone at your peril. I figured UConn fans would remember her good games @Uconn. Plus ND has that post tandem that are a huge handful. But I'm not sure Marina's rust will be gone by Sunday's game. And I'm a bit worried about Shepard, who didn't play on Friday night vs. Drake.
I did not see the video, but it sounds as if we better beware of Ogunbowale's elbows ,too.
 
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Leave Marina alone at your peril. I figured UConn fans would remember her good games @Uconn. Plus ND has that post tandem that are a huge handful. But I'm not sure Marina's rust will be gone by Sunday's game. And I'm a bit worried about Shepard, who didn't play on Friday night vs. Drake.


Nd has so many options its become a mini uconn. Their starting 5 is tough plus the have a bench. ND plays UCONN dec 3rd right? Correct me if im wrong.
 

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Nd has so many options its become a mini uconn. Their starting 5 is tough plus the have a bench. ND plays UCONN dec 3rd right? Correct me if im wrong.
As per schedule, December 2, 2018 at 1600 hours EST. :)
 
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Notre Dame actually played 4 subs, but 2 of the 4 only played 2 minutes a piece (Vaughn and Patterson). Perimeter players Abby Prohaska and Kaitlyn Gilbert played 26 minutes between them (12 and 14) and had minimal statistical impact. (They totaled 0-3 FG, 2 reb, 4 ast, 1 TO, 6 PF). But Muffet needed them to give the starters a rest (especially Mabrey who played in her first game this season yesterday but was able to log only 19 minutes). And in a game this competitive, there were no garbage minutes. They final score does not indicate how close the game was. Oregon State played tough!
Thank you Fightin Choke for giving Oregon State the props they deserve. I was at the Notre Dame vs OSU game in Corvallis last year, and even though OSU played Notre Dame tough last year, I really was impressed how they played Notre Dame this year. I'm not the least concerned, because I know Rueck will have these kids ready come tournament time. Rueck just has to do 2 things: 1. Get Slocum's unforced turnovers to a minimum, and 2. Bring along 6'7" Patricia Morris over the next 90 days. OSU has a bunch of studs, who can all shoot, and will play great defense when it matters.

Re: Mabrey, she's a complete stud. I've always been impressed with her. She plays hard, and isn't afraid of the big moment. I think Jackie Young is the best guard in the nation. Love how calm she is....silent assassin.
 
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Nd has so many options its become a mini uconn. Their starting 5 is tough plus the have a bench. ND plays UCONN dec 3rd right? Correct me if im wrong.
Notre Dame looks to have no more of a bench than UConn. Coombs is just as good as, if not better than, Gilbert and Prohaska. Nelson-Ododa and Camara are just as good as Patterson, Cosgrove, and Vaughn. Muffet just uses her bench more.
 

triaddukefan

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Leave Marina alone at your peril. I figured UConn fans would remember her good games @Uconn. Plus ND has that post tandem that are a huge handful. But I'm not sure Marina's rust will be gone by Sunday's game. And I'm a bit worried about Shepard, who didn't play on Friday night vs. Drake.

Thanks. I had no idea that ND plays UConn this coming sunday..... I was wondering what you were referring to, so I had to google your schedule.
 

Dillon77

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Notre Dame looks to have no more of a bench than UConn. Coombs is just as good as, if not better than, Gilbert and Prohaska. Nelson-Ododa and Camara are just as good as Patterson, Cosgrove, and Vaughn. Muffet just uses her bench more.

Ah, the old potential versus kinetic energy situation pops up again. ;)
No doubt that Coombs, Nelson-Odoba and Camara are fine talents, but one has not seen them all a whole lot.

MM has used her bench more, but just not to clear it with five minutes left against Gonzaga or Drake to give her starters a rest before the next day's game. No, she's had to use it, because of illness or injury. Freshmen Jordan Nixon (herself sick all Vancouver tournament) , Abby Prohaska and Katlyn Gilbert and Soph Danielle Patterson, have all started and/or played serious portions of games and made varying degrees of contributions.

Were they up to the level of the Irish starters? Of course not, but Gilbert had double figures in one game and Patterson helped in the absence of Shepard against Drake. Prohaska gives great effort on defense, moves the ball well and is on intimate terms with floors in North America.

So, against Oregon State, the Irish starters -- save Mabrey, making her first start of the year -- were ready to roll against a really good team making a stellar effort.

So, at some point I think the "mays" have to get in action so they "can."
 
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Dillon77

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Leave Marina alone at your peril. I figured UConn fans would remember her good games @Uconn. Plus ND has that post tandem that are a huge handful. But I'm not sure Marina's rust will be gone by Sunday's game. And I'm a bit worried about Shepard, who didn't play on Friday night vs. Drake.

Yes, but Shepard played a lot against OSU on Sunday, which OSU Coach Scott Rueck was keenly aware of, as was teammate Brianna Turner. Breezy Bri also cited Mabrey's three as the stroke that got the Irish going at the end of the game. Irish have another tough challenge with Iowa and Megan Gustafson on Thursday so some of Martina's rustiness should be sanded off by Sunday.
 

Fightin Choke

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Yes, but Shepard played a lot against OSU on Sunday, which OSU Coach Scott Rueck was keenly aware of, as was teammate Brianna Turner. Breezy Bri also cited Mabrey's three as the stroke that got the Irish going at the end of the game. Irish have another tough challenge with Iowa and Megan Gustafson on Thursday so some of Martina's rustiness should be sanded off by Sunday.
So shocked by Iowa's loss to FSU, who hasn't looked good at all this season. The Seminoles struggled against what appears to be a pedestrian Florida Gators team and then were soundly defeated by LSU (who lost to Tulane). In general, however, the ACC has looked strong (along with the PAC12), although certain teams that have been good in the past look much weaker (FSU and Duke). Of course, that has been balanced by other ACC teams looking a bit better. Clemson has impressed against South Carolina and Tennessee, so they may elevate to the middle of the conference. BC has a pulse and may rise from the basement as well. GTech and Pitt are a mixed bag; GTech defeated an overrated Georgia team but lost their opener @Houston, while Pitt has generally looked bad, but not as bad as usual (faint praise). Syracuse has looked good as well, taking Oregon down to the buzzer in Eugene. Of course Virginia has looked truly pathetic. By the end of December, we'll have a pretty good idea of the pecking order in the ACC.
 

Plebe

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So shocked by Iowa's loss to FSU, who hasn't looked good at all this season. The Seminoles struggled against what appears to be a pedestrian Florida Gators team and then were soundly defeated by LSU (who lost to Tulane). In general, however, the ACC has looked strong (along with the PAC12), although certain teams that have been good in the past look much weaker (FSU and Duke). Of course, that has been balanced by other ACC teams looking a bit better. Clemson has impressed against South Carolina and Tennessee, so they may elevate to the middle of the conference. BC has a pulse and may rise from the basement as well. GTech and Pitt are a mixed bag; GTech defeated an overrated Georgia team but lost their opener @Houston, while Pitt has generally looked bad, but not as bad as usual (faint praise). Syracuse has looked good as well, taking Oregon down to the buzzer in Eugene. Of course Virginia has looked truly pathetic. By the end of December, we'll have a pretty good idea of the pecking order in the ACC.
Your opinion of the ACC is a bit too rosy. I'm not sure what evidence suggests that Pitt is any better than last year. They lost to Youngstown State and were beaten soundly by Big Ten cellar-dweller Wisconsin.

Wake Forest looks significantly worse than last year. They just lost to AAC powerhouse East Carolina, following up on previous losses to VCU and Xavier. It appears that Pitt, Wake Forest, Virginia and Boston College may be the ACC bottom-feeders this year. Boston College is currently 6-0 but their schedule so far has been pathetic, with the only notable result being a 7-point win over Houston.

Clemson does look a little better than last year, but considering that Alabama smoked them by 20, I'd take the close-ish results against SC and Tenn with a grain of salt.
 
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Fightin Choke

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Your opinion of the ACC is a bit too rosy. I'm not sure what evidence suggests that Pitt is any better than last year. They lost to Youngstown State and were beaten soundly by Big Ten cellar-dweller Wisconsin.

Wake Forest looks significantly worse than last year. They just lost to AAC powerhouse East Carolina, following up on previous losses to VCU and Xavier. It appears that Pitt, Wake Forest, Virginia and Boston College may be the ACC bottom-feeders this year. Boston College is currently 6-0 but their schedule so far has been pathetic, with the only notable result being a 7-point win over Houston.

Clemson does look a little better than last year, but considering that Alabama smoked them by 20, I'd take the close-ish results against SC and Tenn with a grain of salt.
I thought I pointed out that Pitt was not good, only better than last season. I was impressed that they only lost to a pretty good UCF team by 3. Last season they finished 10-20, but maybe this season they will do worse? Perhaps I'm weighing that UCF game too heavily. I didn't assess every ACC team, and yes, Wake Forest looks terrible. I doubt they will match last season's 14-17 record. But I think BC is much better. It's true that their schedule has been very weak, but they have been destroying that competition, which says something. Their only game they did not win by at least 20 points was @Houston (64-57). Their Massey rating has climbed to 70th, which is great for them! Last season they finished ranked 212th in Massey.

Rating conferences is a zero sum game, so which conferences do you think are better than the ACC? (FYI, Massey has them rated second behind the PAC12.)
 

Dillon77

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So shocked by Iowa's loss to FSU, who hasn't looked good at all this season. The Seminoles struggled against what appears to be a pedestrian Florida Gators team and then were soundly defeated by LSU (who lost to Tulane). In general, however, the ACC has looked strong (along with the PAC12), although certain teams that have been good in the past look much weaker (FSU and Duke). Of course, that has been balanced by other ACC teams looking a bit better. Clemson has impressed against South Carolina and Tennessee, so they may elevate to the middle of the conference. BC has a pulse and may rise from the basement as well. GTech and Pitt are a mixed bag; GTech defeated an overrated Georgia team but lost their opener @Houston, while Pitt has generally looked bad, but not as bad as usual (faint praise). Syracuse has looked good as well, taking Oregon down to the buzzer in Eugene. Of course Virginia has looked truly pathetic. By the end of December, we'll have a pretty good idea of the pecking order in the ACC.

Iowa misses Kathleen Doyle, the feisty point guard from just outside Chicago. She's the floor general and there's no one that takes her place at present. Once she's back (broken finger), Iowa will run better.

I have not sat down and seriously looked at other ACC teams quite yet, but have noted:
- Syracuse is on a roll since that close loss to Oregon, having beaten DePaul and Texas A&M. Coach Q seems to have improved his depth so his waves are more consistent;
- Miami is 6-1 with the two-headed post of Mompremier and Hof. Helps to have Laura Cornelius back to run the point, too;
- NC State is undefeated and just recently beat Michigan State and George Washington;
- Kenny Brooks has Va Tech off to a 7-0 start, but I have not seen any top opponents, save a two-point win over Villanova; and,
- And Louisville has a win over Arizona State in its 5-0 start. They play a plucky Miami of Ohio team early this week.
 
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Pitt has been terribly plagued by injuries and bad recruiting by McConnell-Serio that has kept them at the bottom of the ACC since her first season. They have lost Stasha Carey (Rutgers), Brenna Wise (Indiana), and Yacine Diop (Louisville) in consecutive seasons. Aysia Bugg also missed last season with an ACL and is now missing this season due to blood clots after leading the team in scoring the first few games. Suzie’s ranked 2014 class never did anything as the highest ranked player never made it to campus and each of the other 3 transferred or had injuries or both. Has been some very rough years in Pittsburgh.

If Lance White can bring some FSU recruiting skills with him, he may turn around the program. Pitt is not an easy place to recruit to. Campus is not nice at all, in fact there isn’t much of a campus.
 

Plebe

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I thought I pointed out that Pitt was not good, only better than last season. I was impressed that they only lost to a pretty good UCF team by 3. Last season they finished 10-20, but maybe this season they will do worse? Perhaps I'm weighing that UCF game too heavily. I didn't assess every ACC team, and yes, Wake Forest looks terrible. I doubt they will match last season's 14-17 record. But I think BC is much better. It's true that their schedule has been very weak, but they have been destroying that competition, which says something. Their only game they did not win by at least 20 points was @Houston (64-57). Their Massey rating has climbed to 70th, which is great for them! Last season they finished ranked 212th in Massey.

Rating conferences is a zero sum game, so which conferences do you think are better than the ACC? (FYI, Massey has them rated second behind the PAC12.)
Good question. I wasn't speaking so much to the cross-conference comparison, but rather the team-by-team analysis. All of the P5 conferences are a tossed salad of the good, the bad and the ugly, but I tend to agree with you that probably the Pac-12 and the ACC should end up ranking as the top two. But I don't believe the ACC is on the whole any stronger than last year. It seems to be a pretty even mix of improved teams and diminished teams.

Edit to add: Actually, the SEC will also be in the mix with the other two in the overall conference rankings. I think the Big 12 will be a notch below the other three, and then the Big 10 a couple notches lower.
 
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Plebe is usually accurate with his/her memory, but I was at the championship game and didn't remember Pivec missing an important three-pointer in the fourth quarter so I checked the stats. Pivec did shoot 1/4 from the free throw line in the first half, but her lone three-point attempt in the game came four minutes into the third quarter with the Beavers leading 58-54. Pivec was 4/6 from the field during the second half and probably should have asserted herself by taking more shots when her team needed scoring during the final two quarters.
But Pivec was only 1-4 from the free throw line and missed a critical 3 in the 4th quarter which OSU needed to stay close.

StatBroadcast® Systems - Box Score - Oregon State 81 at Notre Dame 91
 

Plebe

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Plebe is usually accurate with his/her memory, but I was at the championship game and didn't remember Pivec missing an important three-pointer in the fourth quarter so I checked the stats. Pivec did shoot 1/4 from the free throw line in the first half, but her lone three-point attempt in the game came four minutes into the third quarter with the Beavers leading 58-54. Pivec was 4/6 from the field during the second half and probably should have asserted herself by taking more shots when her team needed scoring during the final two quarters.


StatBroadcast® Systems - Box Score - Oregon State 81 at Notre Dame 91
Hmmm, maybe I got it confused with one that she missed in the 3rd quarter, when Oregon State was still clinging to a small lead? In any event, my apologies for the fault. All in all, Pivec was certainly a bright spot. Really Notre Dame deserves the credit for picking up their defense, chasing OSU's shooters off the 3-point line, and giving just enough help on the drives.
 
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Notre Dame does deserve the credit, they are very experienced 1-5, and knew how to close out a game. And ND should have won the game vs OSU. The good news through my orange glasses (with black frames) is that in 100 days from now, I believe OSU's team will be in a position to win vs Notre Dame. Destiny Slocum needs time in the OSU system, and, Rueck must solve the 5 position, and I believe he will.
 
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Notre Dame does deserve the credit, they are very experienced 1-5, and knew how to close out a game. And ND should have won the game vs OSU. The good news through my orange glasses (with black frames) is that in 100 days from now, I believe OSU's team will be in a position to win vs Notre Dame. Destiny Slocum needs time in the OSU system, and, Rueck must solve the 5 position, and I believe he will.
But ND isn't just going to stand still and not get any better over the next 100 days. They will be even more experienced 1-5, especially more experienced playing with each other. They should be "wicked good" by then.
 
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But ND isn't just going to stand still and not get any better over the next 100 days. They will be even more experienced 1-5, especially more experienced playing with each other. They should be "wicked good" by then.
Agreed that ND could be better, but they have all been playing together for quite some time. I hope OSU & ND meet again this season in the NCAA tournament.
 
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I’ve witnessed her execute dirty plays before in other games. When a rebounder goes up high for a rebound, she’ll bend down and go into their legs and upend them. Very dangerous play. Seen her do it a couple times.

Arike's antics during the first half of the championship game were actually worse than has been inaccurately reported in the media accounts of what transpired near the end of the first half. Arike was fouled on a drive to the basket by OSU's Janessa Thropay as both players fell to the floor. It was actually Arike who kicked at the head of Thropay rather than the other way around as was incorrectly reported in the AP release. Thropay's head was facing away from Arike and appeared to move as Arike extended her foot into Thropay's head.

The video review by the refs following the foul that was called on Thropay also looked at the prior Arike elbow that had knocked Thropay to the floor at the opposite end of the court on the previous OSU possession. During the review timeout, Arike attempted to view the screen that the refs were viewing and was asked to return to her team's huddle. It was apparent that Arike was worried that the video review would result in a Flagrant 1 or 2 call. She was lucky that her kick to Thropay's head was ruled as "incidental." It certainly appeared from my vantage point that it was intentional as well as the elbow that she had connected with on the other end of the court. The refs had to call the Arike elbow on the prior possession an "unsportsmanlike" act and rightfully did so. If Arike wasn't the star that she has become, the refs would have been more likely to eject her for one or both of those incidents.

Arike will mess up again at some point this season with her behavior and the refs will give her less benefit of the doubt at that time. The word has been out on her for a while now.
 
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CocoHusky

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Arike's antics during the first half of the championship game were actually worse than has been inaccurately reported in the media accounts of what transpired near the end of the first half. Arike was fouled on a drive to the basket by OSU's Janessa Thropay as both players fell to the floor. It was actually Arike who kicked at the head of Thropay rather than the other way around as was incorrectly reported in the AP release. Thropay's head was facing away from Arike and appeared to move as Arike extended her foot into Thropay's head.

The video review by the refs following the foul that was called on Thropay looked at the prior Arike elbow that had knocked Thropay to the floor at the opposite end of the court on the previous OSU possession. During the review timeout, Arike attempted to view the screen that the refs were viewing and was asked to return to her team's huddle. It was apparent that Arike was worried that the video review would result in a Flagrant 1 or 2 call. She was lucky that her kick to Thropay's head was ruled as "incidental." It certainly appeared from my vantage point that it was intentional as well as the elbow that she had connected with on the other end of the court. The refs had to call the Arike elbow on the prior possession an "unsportsmanlike" act and rightfully did so. If Arike wasn't the star that she has become, the refs would have been more likely to eject her for one or both of those incidents.

Arike will mess up again at some point this season with her behavior and the refs will give her less benefit of the doubt at that time. The word has been out on her for a while now.
I still have not seen these videos yet but let me get this one part of YOUR story straight; there was a video review of a kick to the head which was ruled "incidental"?
Does your vantage point really matter after that?
 

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Agreed that ND could be better, but they have all been playing together for quite some time. I hope OSU & ND meet again this season in the NCAA tournament.

Oregon St. could certainly win a rematch just as they could have won this game. They always play ND tough. That being said...

It was the first ever game for the starting 5 of Mabrey-Ogunbowale-Young-Shepard-Turner. Only the 5th game together for the frontcourt tandem of Shepard & Turner.

Notre Dame is still figuring some things out, too, especially defensively. They ended up in the zone out of necessity last year. Now ND has Turner as a rim protector again, which makes man more viable, but the execution of the man-to-man defense needs work. Playing good teams like Oregon State that have multiple weapons and good shooters will help.

Not sure how Rueck is going to "solve" the 5 position unless Aquino is able to play. But even then you're counting on a true freshman and she is missing out now on valuable experience. Rueck is a great coach but it seems like he is limited by the quality of the personnel in that department.
 
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I still have not seen these videos yet but let me get this one part of YOUR story straight; there was a video review of a kick to the head which was ruled "incidental"?
Does your vantage point really matter after that?
While in context to the game the non call doesn't matter, however in respect to Arike's behavior it does. The previous posts were in context to her behavior and dirty play not to the outcome of the game. From my perspective it boiled down to intent. She did hit Thropay in the head with her foot. When that happened the were both stationary on the ground and Arike moved her leg inward and hit Thropay in the head. Even the ND announcer mentioned it as a possible T. It was certainly possible that it was accidental rather than incidental ( incidental is within context of normal play but this was after the play was over). But It also was possible that it was on purpose. I believe the officials might have been somewhat swayed by the fact that that would have given her two T's and forced her ejection so they gave her the benefit of the doubt.

All in all, in context with the direction of the thread Pac 12 fans post was not out of line. They just pointed out their own observation of another factor of negative behavior Arike exhibited in that same game.
 

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