BIG fan here: let's keep hope alive

[upstater]

There are a couple of additional factors that I believe helped RU and which UCONN doesn't have in its favor. 1.) RU has had a long relationship with several Big Ten teams mainly Illinois, Penn State and the Big Ten administration (from a lobbying standpoint). 2.)It has also been known for years that RU preferred the Big Ten over the ACC because it fit the Big Ten profile in terms of size and academic culture. 3.) although RU's football suffered miserably in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s and didn't really take off until 2005, there is a long tradition at the school. Over its history RU has an all-time winning record. The RU football program is perceived around the country as being solid, top 30- 40. 4.) Last but not least, not mentioned is the large recruiting talent base in NJ and eastern PA that opens wider for all Big Ten teams including RU.

And geez, you can't compare what happened at PSU to anything that ever happened at RU. Who's throwing stones? Talk about glass houses; have you read today's paper?

Not sure what you mean about today's paper. What are you referring to?

Anyhow--you are really saying Rutgers is thought of as a solid top 30-40 football school around the country? Most fans I've come across don't feel that way at all. Andrew Zimbalist actually singled out Rutgers football as hurting the school's reputation.

I sort of dismiss 1 through 3 out of hand but I believe 4 is a factor (though I don't know what Rutgers has to do with PSU's recruiting territory in E. Pa.

 

[pj]

I don't see the GoR as a huge barrier especially as the contracts wind down; it is like an exit fee whose size is proportional to the number of years left on the contract. The B1G could take, say, Kansas and the B12 would have their TV rights but Kansas would collect $20 mn per year from the B12. It would make sense to buy out the deal so that Kansas games with B1G teams would be distributed via B1G networks rather than B12; but this would cost far less than $20 mn per year. The buyout would relieve the B12 of making the $20 mn per year payment to Kansas.

I think the B12 GoR is more penetrable than the ACC one, mainly because the contract expires much sooner, also there is no $50 mn exit fee. Also the ACC teams just examined their B1G options and passed. So I think it would have to be a B12 breakup.

There the problem is what to do with the sister teams. You have to solve Texas/TT/Oklahoma/OSU/Kansas/KSU simultaneously; no one team will leave until its sisters are taken care of. So you have to work out a global deal with the Pac, B1G, and the six schools. Maybe the B1G needs to bribe the Pac to take the weaker teams?

It seems like a lot of moving parts.

 

[woomba]

If the only way the Big Ten gets Kansas is to help send OU/Texas to the Pac-12 the Big Ten might as well do all it can to keep the Big 12 alive.

 

[Adios]

I don't think there's really anything wrong with living in Kansas. Every setting has it's beauty. But just much more over here. Especially from a business perspective.

 

[pj]

I've lived in a variety of university towns and the Midwest has some great merits. Urbana/Champaign was the best place I ever lived for getting worked done. A University of Illinois dean once recruited a famous professor from the University of Chicago by telling him that his productivity would improve tremendously at Illinois due to the dearth of distractions.

 

[RU]

Not sure what you mean about today's paper. What are you referring to?

Anyhow--you are really saying Rutgers is thought of as a solid top 30-40 football school around the country? Most fans I've come across don't feel that way at all. Andrew Zimbalist actually singled out Rutgers football as hurting the school's reputation.

I sort of dismiss 1 through 3 out of hand but I believe 4 is a factor (though I don't know what Rutgers has to do with PSU's recruiting territory in E. Pa.

#1 is not really much of a factor though there's a long standing familiarity between the conference and RU. I don't think you can dismiss the rest of it out of hand; it's long been known by the Big Ten that RU wanted in ahead of the ACC, fit the profile and what does Andrew Zimbalist an economist know? I could care less what someone who thinks colleges whore themselves out at the expense of athletics thinks though even he admits that RU moving to the Big Ten is a positive for the school. RU final AP/ESPN rankings average since 2005 = 37 (used final rank of 75 for 2010 with a 4 - 8 record) No doubt PSU has a strong following in eastern PA but it's even better for the Big Ten with RU on board. PA 3 and 4 star recruits to RU during that time = 11 and 3.

 

[pj]

If the only way the Big Ten gets Kansas is to help send OU/Texas to the Pac-12 the Big Ten might as well do all it can to keep the Big 12 alive.

Why is it worse to have them in the Pac than B12?

 

[upstater]

#1 is not really much of a factor though there's a long standing familiarity between the conference and RU. I don't think you can dismiss the rest of it out of hand; it's long been known by the Big Ten that RU wanted in ahead of the ACC, fit the profile and what does Andrew Zimbalist an economist know? I could care less what someone who thinks colleges whore themselves out at the expense of athletics thinks though even he admits that RU moving to the Big Ten is a positive for the school. RU final AP/ESPN rankings average since 2005 = 37 (used final rank of 75 for 2010 with a 4 - 8 record) No doubt PSU has a strong following in eastern PA but it's even better for the Big Ten with RU on board. PA 3 and 4 star recruits to RU during that time = 11 and 3.

Zimbalist is an expert in sports economics who gauges whether sports expenditures pay off. He calculates that they add sheen to a school in less than 10% of the cases. He then looked at Rutgers' admission metrics and survey results and assessed that the school has negative perceptions associated with it that are unfair (i.e. he was saying it is a much better school than people give it credit for, but that wasn't the perception -- partly due to the fault of its athletics). Average rank of 37 since 2005 doesn't move national sentiment about a school. Heck, UConn has been playing football for longer than that, and has even racked up winning records while in the BE against Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville, and it's meant nada.

 

[upstater]

I've lived in a variety of university towns and the Midwest has some great merits. Urbana/Champaign was the best place I ever lived for getting worked done. A University of Illinois dean once recruited a famous professor from the University of Chicago by telling him that his productivity would improve tremendously at Illinois due to the dearth of distractions.

That doesn't sound like a recommendation, but it's understandable. I met some of my best friends in State College which felt like a prison at the time. We were "all in it together." On the other hand, I despised Ann Arbor. It was "sissy town" as my wife called it. Go out to dinner at a good restaurant and first wait in line with a bunch of frat boys with baseball hats on backwards and then talk over candlelight while the kids next table are bleating.

 

[NickyNewark]

From NickyNewark
LOL!! Hilarious...owned? ha ha,do they know this?We better tell PP to let all the 4* recruits in on our secret!All the kids in the region will flock here!Well thank god Ped U at least has a small degree of respect from your post!
I live in Cos Cob and the Capitol District in NY and I'm amazed at the block R's I see...its spreading!!It's in the very air!It's growing even as we BS ourselves now!!
Interesting. I took a very unofficial survey walking back to my car at the NJ Transit station parking lot and later the same day through the local Shop Rite parking lot in Northern Jersey, and I agree that there are a lot of block R’s around, except that most are for the Roadrunners of Ramapo College. It is probably worth noting that the grocery store is in the home town of Rutgers’ last AD, aka the poor guy thrown under the bus. Focusing on just BCS schools (Princeton, Cornell, and Army are very popular along with many DII and local state schools), Penn State is hands-down the most common college decal on cars in town. Rutgers is well behind and likely just ahead of ND and Michigan. Admittedly, I have only seen 2 or 3 UConn decals in town beside my own (oddly, there are fair number of Clemson stickers in town for some reason). So, I am not sure about Rutgers is ‘spreading.’
I do respect Rutgers and I enjoyed UConn/Rutgers football games (been to games in E Hartford and Piscataway). UConn versus Rutgers in men’s soccer is also usually a good match. That said, Rutgers has royally screwed-up recently. I have a connection through the U Michigan athletic department (no, I don’t even ask about future expansion as it puts my friend in an awkward position). Rutgers got into the B1G based the following facts: 1) geographic location in the NY/NJ market, 2) is AAU, 3) is a continuous state (NJ) to a B1G state (PA), 4) is D1 in sports (versus Princeton & others), and 5) is in the NY/NJ market. The Rice/Hermann fiasco has greatly embarrassed the B1G. The general feeling is if Rutgers was not in the NY/NJ market; their initiation would have been re-evaluated. And, not to excuse what happened at Penn State not to tarnish the 99.9% of people at Penn State who are good people, Rutgers should not throw stones when it lives in a glass house. Afterall, if something else bad happens at Rutgers during Hermann’s watch, she has proven that she will likely forget whatever did happen and jump ship for a better job elsewhere.

@I'm sure your survey is very professional but all you need are two eyes and a bit of common sense too realize Jopa and later even Glen Mason ex-coach at Minnesota and many others were pushing for RU before Uconn even played BE FB and if you can't see RU being worthy then certainly UConn has or should give up all hope cause NO ONE that I ever heard of ever pushed too add UConn to the B1G and w/o some serious movement with some other big player you guys will take your BB back into the BE with "Villanova" the school most people not from our area equates our UConn FB team with!You guys(not everybody) should really check other schools boards across the nation and get out of your safe box!Some of your posters are seriously blinded by your love of your school!Good luck,don't worry tho a lot of us RU fans know what it feels like and hate to see UConn suffer similar fools!!Thank god were not BC or "Cuse" envious but would actually support you!

 

[pj]

It is a recommendation ... I was focused on research at the time. You also get nice homes for small amounts of money. But of course it is not for everyone.

 

[woomba]

Why is it worse to have them in the Pac than B12?

Because that would prop up the Pac-12 with two historic FB programs and one of the best recruiting grounds in the country? Pac-12 controlling both Cali and Texas and SEC controlling most of the south will make it even harder for Northern teams to pull in talent outside of its footprint and would quite possibly make Pac-12 even more powerful than the Big 10 and the SEC.

That said - I don't think Kansas leaving will actually set off that chain reaction of the Big 12 imploding. As long as Texas and OU stay put the Big 12 will exist in one form or another.

 

[NickyNewark]

But we're the ones who are presumptuous?

My wife grew up on a dairy farm about 4 hours north of The Cities before moving to "New York City," as her immense extended family calls it. However, she has never lived west of Hartford County, let alone remotely close to NYC. Her family just refers to the East Coast as New York, no matter how many times she corrects them.

I remember flying out to DL (by way of Fargo) when we were dating and I commented after the trip how nice the people are. She said something to the effect of, "Yeah, until you turn your back. At least people back home judge you to your face. You know exactly where you stand with them."

Look, Gopher, I appreciate your support of getting UConn an invite to the Big Ten, but next time you feel like hopping aboard your high horse, I hope you think better of it. It's a big country, this land of ours, and just chalk it up as a different way of life. There are As everywhere and the Big Ten already accepted Rutgers.

@Yeah but they could had done worse....they could have taken whichever godforsaken team you claim to support!(I certainly hope they don't support you! husky25)

 

[CL82]

I agree the only two clear-cut slam dunks for the B1G would be ND and Texas. A third potential is Florida State. ND has a bad history with the B1G that would have to be overcome. Texas, which is also a prima donna in college athletics, has its ugly little sister in Texas Tech that may have to be taken as part of a package deal. Florida State has an academic issue getting into the B1G and the physical gap between Tallahasse FL and College Park MD would have to be filled, which will be difficult unless UNC agrees to handover the keys to it’s ACC Kingdom.
As for the Northeast, the B1G has made it clear that its only interested in state, flagship universities and prefer those who are AAU. The only likely exception is Notre Dame.
The only advantages that Syracuse has over UConn is that it is in a continuous state (NY) to existing B1G states (PA & NJ), a football ‘tradition,’ and has a very good lacrosse program. UConn is close is to Syracuse in academics (Syracuse does not have a medical school, most B1G schools have one), has been a better football program over the last 10 years, has better overall athletic facilities (the Dome is showing it’s age; but, it is on campus), is better in basketball (men & women), offers hockey, and has nearly equal far superior penetration to the NY market. Oh, an UConn is a state flagship university.
BC is ND’s weaker sister. The only advantages that BC has over UConn is a so called football tradition (basically built on 1 play, see Doug Flutie), and a very good hockey team. BC barely registers on Boston TV outside of the Beanpot as they rank 5th behind the Sox, Patriots, Celtics, and Bruins (I would argue that they are 6th behind ND) and they do not pull in the rest of the region, which UConn does.

 

[NickyNewark]

@I'm sure your survey is very professional but all you need are two eyes and a bit of common sense too realize Jopa and later even Glen Mason ex-coach at Minnesota and many others were pushing for RU before Uconn even played BE FB and if you can't see RU being worthy then certainly UConn has or should give up all hope cause NO ONE that I ever heard of ever pushed too add UConn to the B1G and w/o some serious movement with some other big player you guys will take your BB back into the BE with "Villanova" the school most people not from our area equates our UConn FB team with!You guys(not everybody) should really check other schools boards across the nation and get out of your safe box!Some of your posters are seriously blinded by your love of your school!Good luck,don't worry about it tho a lot of us RU fans know what it feels like and hate to see UConn suffer similar fools!!Thank god were not BC or "Cuse" envious but would actually support you!

 

[Husky25]

@Yeah but they could had done worse....they could have taken whichever godforsaken team you claim to support!(I certainly hope they don't support you!)

Lighten up, Francis (I've been waiting to use that!!! )

I can't help that you're feeling sensitive...again. But keep in mind that this is, in fact, a UConn board and jokes will be made at the expense of other institutions from time to time.

 

[CL82]

One quick comment about growth/population shift/demographics.

Outside of Florida, Texas and Georgia the southern states are less populated than the north. That said 3% growth in a less densely populated area is lower overall people than 1% in a densely populated area. There are economies of scale at work here. As some of the lower populated areas grow, the cost of that growth will equal the existing areas. At that point things will stablize and the north will still have higher population. The pendulum doesn't swing one direction for ever.

http://www.stewarthsu.com/2007/12/04/population-growth-forecast-charts/

http://www.stewarthsu.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/state_projected_pop_growth_2007-2012.pdf

Just a quick comment about the midwest. Most fans dislike the east coast attitude of looking down at a place because you feel its backwoods etc. Your assumption is we are stuck here when in reality we choose to be here. If you live in Chicago or Minneapolis you can get your urban feel, go to museums, concerts and pro sports. You can also choose to live more rural. My family farms 5000 acres 90 minutes south of Minneapolis. I can get anywhere in the world just like you can. My income is more disposable because I don't have the same cost of living as you do. I live in a 3400 sq foot house with a three car garage on a golf course for $275K.

I would like UCONN in the B1G. I would prefer you leave the attitude with the AAC though. We make lots of money feeding you and making your cars. Don't look down at us as you suffer from creeping obesity because you drive to the store.

Lol, angry much? FWIW, I once was in a B&B with my wife when a UTAH guy came up to me to talk about how many acres he owned and how he'd never want to live on the east coast, so I guess the you can jack@sses anywhere.

We just listened and smiled politely. No big deal.

 

[pj]

Because that would prop up the Pac-12 with two historic FB programs and one of the best recruiting grounds in the country? Pac-12 controlling both Cali and Texas and SEC controlling most of the south will make it even harder for Northern teams to pull in talent outside of its footprint and would quite possibly make Pac-12 even more powerful than the Big 10 and the SEC.

That said - I don't think Kansas leaving will actually set off that chain reaction of the Big 12 imploding. As long as Texas and OU stay put the Big 12 will exist in one form or another.

I'm thinking if Kansas left for the B1G, it would have to be with K State having a home, eg Pac. The B1G and Pac could split the B12 between them, and if the B1G got Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas could pay the Pac $40 mn a year or something to compensate them for taking K State / Oklahoma State / TT to make it possible. Then maybe the Pac takes Iowa State to get to 16, B1G takes UConn to get to 18, you recreate the B1G/Pac rivalry game with Iowa vs Iowa State, Kansas vs K State, Oklahoma vs Ok State, and Texas vs TT being four of the games. Fox would have to broker this.

 

[pj]

Lol, angry much? FWIW, I once was in a B&B with my wife when a UTAH guy came up to me to talk about how many acres he owned and how he'd never want to live on the east coast, so I guess the you can jack@sses anywhere.

We just listened and smiled politely. No big deal.

No need to be rude. What's wrong with talking about the advantages of owning a lot of land? Personally, I'd rather live on a large spread in Utah than in Boston, but here I am.

 

[NickyNewark]

Zimbalist is an expert in sports economics who gauges whether sports expenditures pay off. He calculates that they add sheen to a school in less than 10% of the cases. He then looked at Rutgers' admission metrics and survey results and assessed that the school has negative perceptions associated with it that are unfair (i.e. he was saying it is a much better school than people give it credit for, but that wasn't the perception -- partly due to the fault of its athletics). Average rank of 37 since 2005 doesn't move national sentiment about a school. Heck, UConn has been playing football for longer than that, and has even racked up winning records while in the BE against Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville, and it's meant nada.

@Upstater,a lot of people don't know but the minute Pitt and SU found out in "10" that RU was close to getting a B1G invite the BE's days were numbered!Their pride could'nt stand or understand how "they" RU a large state U with ties and similar mission and fanbase's in a giant demo could pass "them' up?Imagine you guys came in with us and "they" were left when the music stopped?That would have been priceless to see their faces and boards meltdown along with there arrogant private school pride!CR takes yrs of building relationships similar to recruiting star players!If Nebraska hadn't become available RU would have been long gone already!

 

[NickyNewark]

No need to be rude. What's wrong with talking about the advantages of owning a lot of land? Personally, I'd rather live on a large spread in Utah than in Boston, but here I am.

@Yeah but would you own the lot? Or would the lot own you?

 

[upstater]

@Upstater,a lot of people don't know but the minute Pitt and SU found out in "10" that RU was close to getting a B1G invite the BE's days were numbered!Their pride could'nt stand or understand how "they" RU a large state U with ties and similar mission and fanbase's in a giant demo could pass "them' up?Imagine you guys came in with us and "they" were left when the music stopped?That would have been priceless to see their faces and boards meltdown along with there arrogant private school pride!CR takes yrs of building relationships similar to recruiting star players!If Nebraska hadn't become available RU would have been long gone already!

While I think RU is easily a more valuable property than Pitt and SU, there's no way I believe that 2 1/2 years ago, RU had an invite that propelled SU and Pitt into action. First off, UConn was supposed to join, and they would have, had the Flipper not pulled that stunt. Secondly, Pitt jumped (not that they wouldn't have otherwise) when BC blocked UConn. They didn't want to get left when the music stopped, as you wrote. I don't know why Swofford ignored RU. Maybe because he's dumb. Maybe because (likelier) the ACC has not TV network and relies on ratings. That would diminish the value of RU. Maybe because they really do want to dominate college basketball.

 

[upstater]

No need to be rude. What's wrong with talking about the advantages of owning a lot of land? Personally, I'd rather live on a large spread in Utah than in Boston, but here I am.

I think he was saying the Utah guy was rude.

 

[CL82]

No need to be rude. What's wrong with talking about the advantages of owning a lot of land? Personally, I'd rather live on a large spread in Utah than in Boston, but here I am.

Reread my post and realize it that wasn't rude, though I suppose the 'creeping obesity' comment of the post I responded to was. Personally, I'd rather live in Boston, it's a great city, but Utah would be very cool as well. The point is it is just a choice. People who go out there why to explain way their life style choices are superior to yours and how they'd never live where you live, are insecure and, well kind of jerky. Yes, you find them on the east coast, but they can be found in rural areas as well. Just smile politely and move on, it's not a big deal That was my point.

 

[woomba]

I'm thinking if Kansas left for the B1G, it would have to be with K State having a home, eg Pac. The B1G and Pac could split the B12 between them, and if the B1G got Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas could pay the Pac $40 mn a year or something to compensate them for taking K State / Oklahoma State / TT to make it possible. Then maybe the Pac takes Iowa State to get to 16, B1G takes UConn to get to 18, you recreate the B1G/Pac rivalry game with Iowa vs Iowa State, Kansas vs K State, Oklahoma vs Ok State, and Texas vs TT being four of the games. Fox would have to broker this.

Well - K. State will only need a home if the Big 12 collapsed and I don't see that happening if Kansas is the only team to move.

If you're talking Kansas, OU, and Texas all jumping ship at once - then yes, I agree that a huge deal will need to be brokered between 2-3 conferences to give KSU, OSU, etc a home for it be palatable.

It's hard for me to see why either the SEC or Pac-12 would be interested in taking those schools though - if the top 3 brands in the Big 12 left some of the other Texas schools + WVU will probably be fine but the rest are SOL unless they're part of a combo package with their brother school(s)...and I don't think one conference paying another to 'put up' with other schools is realistic.