ACC rumor from the Fat White Guy

[SAMCRO]

Who did Bethune beat?

I think he meant Ga Southern, not sure though.

 

[uconndogs]

It is a shot.

UConn has put a lot into football and wants to win.

Here's another shot: you say "maybe" Syracuse but classify UConn as bball?

You're not even aware that UConn has dominated Syracuse in football.

I've been to the last 6 UCONN vs Cuse football games. When we ran off 5 straight on them it was hysterical. It's like the fanbase couldn't acknowledge the reality of what was happening.

But, but, but...........Jim Brown........

Cuse is in a better spot right now due to conference affiliation. That fanbase thinks UCONN is dead in the water and they really couldn't be more wrong. That could all turn pretty quickly and at the end of the day the Orange have to win or they are irrelevent, just like everyone else.

 

[upstater]

Guy is a troll.

 

[SAMCRO]

Just what do you not agree with in my statement?

That FSU wasn't thrilled about adding another NE team to its division?

That Louisville, under Strong, had a football program that was peaking at the right time...that Louisville's basketball was good and so was baseball?

Just what?

Or is it just anger that you are expressing that Louisville was taken?

Billy, I think the disagreement does come from a frustration of not only the current situation UConn finds itself in, but also the short sightedness and factually incorrect BS that visitors spit out on this board about UConn's success or lack there of. UL and UConn are pretty much even in W-L v. eachother since we started playing one another. Both have won multiple BE FB titles, but UL is on a great run right now, 4 years ago UConn was the better program. My personal belief is the ACC is making short sighted decisions looking at the current and next 2-3 year period, and not the bigger picture and long term impact (I am biased though). UConn took their FB program further in a shorter period of time than most others if not all, and the stock long term is a "buy". SU and BC both know this and will do whatever they can to keep UConn from getting in this new club. My annoyance is less about the UL selection and more about Pitt's over UConn. Go sport by sport in the current era and find where Pitt has the advantage here (other than the perception that opens up recruiting in western PA - but FSU, etc... was already getting those kids to committ). It just doesn't make sense. It was a short sighted decision by a spiteful and insecure group of administrators in Boston, and a Conference Commissioner who was playing checkers, not chess. Other than UL's academics (which has no bearing on sports, but is all the ACC could rave about years ago in taking "like minded institutions"), I get the choice. It is a southern school, solid FB, solid BB - both at all time highs right now, and committed fan base) it makes sense. The Pitt choice (and lesser degree SU, but they were at least in the conversation the first raid of rthe old BE) is beyond me. People love to throw the lawsuit as another reason UConn is screwed, but look at the shcolls on the suit (Pitt, VT, both signed up for it initally). Oh well, they are all yours now, and in 5 years I am confident people in the ACC will be second guessing some of their choices. We shall see.

 

[billybud]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply....I can see that.

I really have no idea of why Pitt was added......other then my suspicion that since they have a long time relationship with Notre Dame and a long term contract schedule..the ACC might have just used Pitt as a sweetner to entice the Irish.

 

[frankthetank]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply....I can see that.

I really have no idea of why Pitt was added......other then my suspicion that since they have a long time relationship with Notre Dame and a long term contract schedule..the ACC might have just used Pitt as a sweetner to entice the Irish.

Look - I get the consternation from people here, but Pitt was a fairly valuable piece in the conference realignment game and scored high in virtually every metric that university presidents said was important: it's an AAU school with a long football history located in a good-sized market and an excellent football recruiting ground. They would have been in the Big Ten years ago if they had been located virtually anywhere other than a Big Ten state. Pitt also had a second suitor to play off of the ACC: the Big 12. Believe me - the Big 12 didn't want WVU just hanging out east by itself as a geographic outlier. They were targeting Pitt, WVU and Louisville for a 3-team expansion and would have gone to 12 with that combo. (Just think of how much more the northern part of the Big 12 would make more sense if that expansion had occurred, which is why that's what they originally wanted.) The ACC nixed that plan by getting Pitt first (and to be sure, Pitt *definitely* preferred the ACC to the Big 12) and the Big 12's plan fell apart to where they basically had to take one of either WVU or Louisville alone for spackling. Whatever people might think of Swofford (and I tend to think that people outside of the ACC underestimate him while people within the ACC overestimate him), he blocked the Big 12's options big-time with both its preemptive taking of Pitt and then further grabbing Louisville.

 

[Sea Goat]

Look - I get the consternation from people here, but Pitt was a fairly valuable piece in the conference realignment game and scored high in virtually every metric that university presidents said was important: it's an AAU school with a long football history located in a good-sized market and an excellent football recruiting ground. They would have been in the Big Ten years ago if they had been located virtually anywhere other than a Big Ten state. Pitt also had a second suitor to play off of the ACC: the Big 12. Believe me - the Big 12 didn't want WVU just hanging out east by itself as a geographic outlier. They were targeting Pitt, WVU and Louisville for a 3-team expansion and would have gone to 12 with that combo. (Just think of how much more the northern part of the Big 12 would make more sense if that expansion had occurred, which is why that's what they originally wanted.) The ACC nixed that plan by getting Pitt first (and to be sure, Pitt *definitely* preferred the ACC to the Big 12) and the Big 12's plan fell apart to where they basically had to take one of either WVU or Louisville alone for spackling. Whatever people might think of Swofford (and I tend to think that people outside of the ACC underestimate him while people within the ACC overestimate him), he blocked the Big 12's options big-time with both its preemptive taking of Pitt and then further grabbing Louisville.

Sounds like, if the Big 12 is to survive, it must take Cincy - we'll see. Then UConn becomes the last man standing for any further ACC or B1G incursion in NYC. Wishful thinking? Perhaps - but UConn is every bit as valuable as any of the old BE teams that have already landed in a P-5 conference.

 

[btstimpy]

Look - I get the consternation from people here, but Pitt was a fairly valuable piece in the conference realignment game and scored high in virtually every metric that university presidents said was important: it's an AAU school with a long football history located in a good-sized market and an excellent football recruiting ground. They would have been in the Big Ten years ago if they had been located virtually anywhere other than a Big Ten state. Pitt also had a second suitor to play off of the ACC: the Big 12. Believe me - the Big 12 didn't want WVU just hanging out east by itself as a geographic outlier. They were targeting Pitt, WVU and Louisville for a 3-team expansion and would have gone to 12 with that combo. (Just think of how much more the northern part of the Big 12 would make more sense if that expansion had occurred, which is why that's what they originally wanted.) The ACC nixed that plan by getting Pitt first (and to be sure, Pitt *definitely* preferred the ACC to the Big 12) and the Big 12's plan fell apart to where they basically had to take one of either WVU or Louisville alone for spackling. Whatever people might think of Swofford (and I tend to think that people outside of the ACC underestimate him while people within the ACC overestimate him), he blocked the Big 12's options big-time with both its preemptive taking of Pitt and then further grabbing Louisville.

This is very true regarding Pitt. Since the ACC viewed their expansion opportunity to be to the north, the ACC needed presence in Pennsylvania. The only real options were Pitt and Temple, and when the ACC saw the Big 12 mulling over Pitt, the ACC acted to bring in Pitt and essentially Pennsylvania or the western part of it. The addition of Pitt also was part of a plan to increase the attractiveness of the ACC to Notre Dame.

Louisville is a different situation. The Big XII had all the opportunity in the world to add Louisville and chose West Virginia instead. Tom Jurich basically went to Deloss Dodd's office and begged to be invited by the Big XII. The ACC acted on Louisville only after Maryland decided to leave. I think that had the Big XII taken Louisville instead of West Virginia, West Virginia would have been in the mix of schools considered after Marylan left. The same forces within the ACC that pushed for Louisville would have pushed for WVU.

 

[upstater]

This is very true regarding Pitt. Since the ACC viewed their expansion opportunity to be to the north, the ACC needed presence in Pennsylvania. The only real options were Pitt and Temple, and when the ACC saw the Big 12 mulling over Pitt, the ACC acted to bring in Pitt and essentially Pennsylvania or the western part of it. The addition of Pitt also was part of a plan to increase the attractiveness of the ACC to Notre Dame.

Louisville is a different situation. The Big XII had all the opportunity in the world to add Louisville and chose West Virginia instead. Tom Jurich basically went to Deloss Dodd's office and begged to be invited by the Big XII. The ACC acted on Louisville only after Maryland decided to leave. I think that had the Big XII taken Louisville instead of West Virginia, West Virginia would have been in the mix of schools considered after Marylan left. The same forces within the ACC that pushed for Louisville would have pushed for WVU.

This doesn't mesh at all with what was reported by people a week before Pitt was added, nor does it mesh with Gene DeFillippo's story at BC.

 

[HawkHusky]

This is very true regarding Pitt. Since the ACC viewed their expansion opportunity to be to the north, the ACC needed presence in Pennsylvania. The only real options were Pitt and Temple, and when the ACC saw the Big 12 mulling over Pitt, the ACC acted to bring in Pitt and essentially Pennsylvania or the western part of it. The addition of Pitt also was part of a plan to increase the attractiveness of the ACC to Notre Dame.

Louisville is a different situation. The Big XII had all the opportunity in the world to add Louisville and chose West Virginia instead. Tom Jurich basically went to Deloss Dodd's office and begged to be invited by the Big XII. The ACC acted on Louisville only after Maryland decided to leave. I think that had the Big XII taken Louisville instead of West Virginia, West Virginia would have been in the mix of schools considered after Marylan left. The same forces within the ACC that pushed for Louisville would have pushed for WVU.

That may be true about the ACC wanting a presence in PA, however, it's already been publicly said that the two initial targets were Syracuse and UCONN..UCONN just didn't have the support.

 

[B1GEast]

Cincy and UCF to B12, UConn and Navy to ACC to get back NYC and DC market presence? Makes some sense. Hope the B1G is willing to go to 15 to get into the northeast!

I always believed that Delaney would be willing to go to an unbalanced league for Uconn and wait to find a suitable addition. This would only be the case to prevent the ACC from getting the last viable program into their league.

 

[Dooley]

UCONN is NEVER going to the ACC. I have given up on that thought much like I have given up on the idea of the NHL coming back to Hartford. Debbie Downer-esque? Sure. But the ACC has had more than enough chances to add UCONN over the years only to select the Flavor of the Month type of schools.

Pitt? Good academics; Smoke and mirrors athletics. They play in a 1/2 to 3/4 empty NFL stadium and never win much more than 6 games a season despite their deliciously fertile PA recruiting grounds. They play second fiddle within their own state to Penn State. They do have history and tradition on their side and its more recent than somebody like, say, Syracuse. Basketball is average at best and can't ever get past the Sweet 16. Let's see how well Dixon can recruit NYC when he plays zero games there and is constantly waxed by better coaches like Coach K and Roy Williams. The good news is that they're not obnoxious enough to proclaim themselves as NYC's college team like another school on this list does (ahem, ahem), but that's probably because they can't even proclaim themselves to be Pittsburgh's college team.

The Fruitcakes? Good academics; Basketball school with football history from decades (and decades and decades) ago. Jim Brown and Ernie Davis went there. So did Donovan McNabb, Marvin Harrison and Dwight Freeney. After that, nobody has gone there except for the endless number of morons who work at ESPiN so that we can be reminded that Jim Brown, Ernie Davis and Donovan McNabb went there (because we soon forget watching them lose year after year in a half empty stadium) . And almost no wins too until very recently. But hey, they have nice signs posted all over NYC proclaiming themselves as being NYC's college team so that must be true even though UCONN ratings eclipse theirs in every single sport. Basketball is enjoying some success now but without a one and done Melo type, the 2-3 zone doesn't win championships. Plus Boeheim is old and cranky. They will have the same dilemma as UCONN did when everyone outside of CT was so concerned with UCONN's ability to replace Calhoun. We have. Can they? We shall see.

Louisville? With a 95% acceptance rate and 160-something ridiculous rating, I'm fairly confident that my dog can get accepted. He knows about 200+ words which is probably about 75 more than the average Louisville student. They've enjoyed a nice little football run under Charlie Strong after years of being in the basement of the Big East (along with the Fruitcakes) in the Steve Kragthorpe era. They also were progressive and expanded their stadium just at the most opportune time. Kudos to them. Johnny Unitas went there and so did Deion Branch, which I realize constitutes as having more history than UCONN. Basketball is a solid program and, as if scripted by Conference Hollywood writers, they too are enjoying great success right now. Much like Boeheim and Calhoun, Rick Pitino is old. And much like Fruitcakes and UCONN, they will have to find a replacement for him. Market? They play second fiddle in their own state but, hey, the ACC Network will enjoy the ratings boost from the highly coveted Louisville market (the ones that don't root for Kentucky, that is) for decades because Louisville will ALWAYS be good, right? Just ask Steve Kragthorpe.

UCONN (as best as I can to remove my UCONN colored glasses right now)? Good academics, seemingly on the rise; Basketball school with young football history. Football is exiting its own Steve Kragthorpe era (the Pasqualoni era could not have come at a WORSE time) and attendance has dropped in each of the past 3 seasons under Pasqualoni. Donald Brown, Tyvon Branch, Jordan Todman and Darius Butler went there. Actually (because we have no long-term history), I'll tell you that 19 UCONN guys are currently in the NFL. That's more than Pittsburgh (15), Louisville (14), and Syracuse (12). http://espn.go.com/nfl/college/_/letter/c But if changes aren't made to rid UCONN from its old AD and old coach (old coach, quite literally), then UCONN must not care about football whatsoever…oh wait, we did make house-clearing changes?? Hmmmm. But all of this HAS to be a mistake because, because we have zero history, are located in the northeast, and are a BASKETBALL school, right?! Basketball has won more national titles than the other three on this list combined over the past 3+ decades and sports a ridiculous pipeline to the NBA, even when the player who went UCONN wasn't even good while at UCONN (see: Andre Drummond). Successfully replaced its coaching legend in house and continues to be recognized as one of the top 5 programs in the country even after an APR blip last season. Penetrates NYC (more successfully than the Fruitcakes) and Boston (as successfully as BC) markets while playing second fiddle to…CCSU? ECSU? University of Hartford? Nobody? Ding ding ding! Nobody within its own decent sized market.

Quite honestly, I have grown to hate the ACC. Not the grandfathered schools so much. But BC, Pitt, Cuse, and Louisville can all sahq on it. For what it's worth, so can the U (aka - Boats and Hoes) for their continued efforts to keep crime alive right under the held noses of the NCAA, Duke for always being one of a very small handful of teams that always concern me come Tournament time, and Wake Forrest for being grandfathered into a money conference despite bringing absolutely nothing to the table and for declaring their open football coaching position to be better than UCONN's when it clearly isn't. If I had a highly hypothetical and wishful thinking choice of UCONN joining the ACC today or the B1G in 5 years, I'd wait to the join the B1G (assuming we couldn't get out of the GOR and pay a $50M exit fee). I think UCONN is better suited for the B1G, a conference that strives for athletic achievement (except Rutgers) while maintaining academic excellence amongst large public state universities. It's a northern conference, which I like, that plays all of the sports that I like (football, basketball, hockey, soccer, baseball). And Louisville Community College isn't in it (and never would be). The fact that UCONN isn't already better positioned for a B1G invite is a sad indictment of past university Presidents and, to some extent, Athletic Directors (except Lew Perkins) who failed in every measurable way to think forwardly.

B1G or Bust. F the ACC.

 

[B1GEast]

Uconn will be a a major conference, the question is when. It's going to most likely be the ACC first then the 10

 

[Adios]

Dammit, I want to stay in the Hockey East.

 

[B1GEast]

Dammit, I want to stay in the Hockey East.

I feel your sentiment Butch, but given the options, you take what you can get. The 10 has a solid hockey conference.

 

[CL82]

Look - I get the consternation from people here, but Pitt was a fairly valuable piece in the conference realignment game and scored high in virtually every metric that university presidents said was important: it's an AAU school with a long football history located in a good-sized market and an excellent football recruiting ground. They would have been in the Big Ten years ago if they had been located virtually anywhere other than a Big Ten state. Pitt also had a second suitor to play off of the ACC: the Big 12. Believe me - the Big 12 didn't want WVU just hanging out east by itself as a geographic outlier. They were targeting Pitt, WVU and Louisville for a 3-team expansion and would have gone to 12 with that combo. (Just think of how much more the northern part of the Big 12 would make more sense if that expansion had occurred, which is why that's what they originally wanted.) The ACC nixed that plan by getting Pitt first (and to be sure, Pitt *definitely* preferred the ACC to the Big 12) and the Big 12's plan fell apart to where they basically had to take one of either WVU or Louisville alone for spackling. Whatever people might think of Swofford (and I tend to think that people outside of the ACC underestimate him while people within the ACC overestimate him), he blocked the Big 12's options big-time with both its preemptive taking of Pitt and then further grabbing Louisville.

Interesting but inaccurate. Pitt was the plan B choice when BCU objected to UConn because it didn't competition in New England.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Look - I get the consternation from people here, but Pitt was a fairly valuable piece in the conference realignment game and scored high in virtually every metric that university presidents said was important: it's an AAU school with a long football history located in a good-sized market and an excellent football recruiting ground. They would have been in the Big Ten years ago if they had been located virtually anywhere other than a Big Ten state. Pitt also had a second suitor to play off of the ACC: the Big 12. Believe me - the Big 12 didn't want WVU just hanging out east by itself as a geographic outlier. They were targeting Pitt, WVU and Louisville for a 3-team expansion and would have gone to 12 with that combo. (Just think of how much more the northern part of the Big 12 would make more sense if that expansion had occurred, which is why that's what they originally wanted.) The ACC nixed that plan by getting Pitt first (and to be sure, Pitt *definitely* preferred the ACC to the Big 12) and the Big 12's plan fell apart to where they basically had to take one of either WVU or Louisville alone for spackling. Whatever people might think of Swofford (and I tend to think that people outside of the ACC underestimate him while people within the ACC overestimate him), he blocked the Big 12's options big-time with both its preemptive taking of Pitt and then further grabbing Louisville.

Frank, I agree with this, but here is the net result. His block made three conferences worse, and less geographically cohesive. It was huge blunder that hurt college sports. Then they repeated it with Louisville, again worrying about the Big 12 and not themselves.

The Big 12 is weaker and more disfunctional without Pitt and Louisville and with WVU on an island. It needs two schools and has few options that make sense.
The ACC is worse, as Pitt and Louisville are not on the Atlantic Coast, and don't fit will with the other schools from a cohestive marketing perspective. They are both more midwestern and the ACC has zero chance of making significant inroads in those areas (B1G and SEC territory).
The B1G is worse, because it got suckered into taking Rutgers by the allure of NY's bright lights, to pair with MD.

Had Swofford just worried about his conference and not the B12, he would have UConn and Rutgers in place of Louisville and Pitt. The true stranglehold that UConn, Rutgers and Syracuse combined, plus ND, give the ACC in the NY metro would have upped their negotiating position with ESPN. They would own the Atlantic coast, from Boston to Miami. Swofford and the Presidents were morons not to see this and now they have instead lost their hold on the DC metro as well. It was short sighted and not a smart move for the ACC.

 

[BoatShow]

UCONN is NEVER going to the ACC. I have given up on that thought much like I have given up on the idea of the NHL coming back to Hartford. Debbie Downer-esque? Sure. But the ACC has had more than enough chances to add UCONN over the years only to select the Flavor of the Month type of schools.

Pitt? Good academics; Smoke and mirrors athletics. They play in a 1/2 to 3/4 empty NFL stadium and never win much more than 6 games a season despite their deliciously fertile PA recruiting grounds. They play second fiddle within their own state to Penn State. They do have history and tradition on their side and its more recent than somebody like, say, Syracuse. Basketball is average at best and can't ever get past the Sweet 16. Let's see how well Dixon can recruit NYC when he plays zero games there and is constantly waxed by better coaches like Coach K and Roy Williams. The good news is that they're not obnoxious enough to proclaim themselves as NYC's college team like another school on this list does (ahem, ahem), but that's probably because they can't even proclaim themselves to be Pittsburgh's college team.

The Fruitcakes? Good academics; Basketball school with football history from decades (and decades and decades) ago. Jim Brown and Ernie Davis went there. So did Donovan McNabb, Marvin Harrison and Dwight Freeney. After that, nobody has gone there except for the endless number of morons who work at ESPiN so that we can be reminded that Jim Brown, Ernie Davis and Donovan McNabb went there (because we soon forget watching them lose year after year in a half empty stadium) . And almost no wins too until very recently. But hey, they have nice signs posted all over NYC proclaiming themselves as being NYC's college team so that must be true even though UCONN ratings eclipse theirs in every single sport. Basketball is enjoying some success now but without a one and done Melo type, the 2-3 zone doesn't win championships. Plus Boeheim is old and cranky. They will have the same dilemma as UCONN did when everyone outside of CT was so concerned with UCONN's ability to replace Calhoun. We have. Can they? We shall see.

Louisville? With a 95% acceptance rate and 160-something ridiculous rating, I'm fairly confident that my dog can get accepted. He knows about 200+ words which is probably about 75 more than the average Louisville student. They've enjoyed a nice little football run under Charlie Strong after years of being in the basement of the Big East (along with the Fruitcakes) in the Steve Kragthorpe era. They also were progressive and expanded their stadium just at the most opportune time. Kudos to them. Johnny Unitas went there and so did Deion Branch, which I realize constitutes as having more history than UCONN. Basketball is a solid program and, as if scripted by Conference Hollywood writers, they too are enjoying great success right now. Much like Boeheim and Calhoun, Rick Pitino is old. And much like Fruitcakes and UCONN, they will have to find a replacement for him. Market? They play second fiddle in their own state but, hey, the ACC Network will enjoy the ratings boost from the highly coveted Louisville market (the ones that don't root for Kentucky, that is) for decades because Louisville will ALWAYS be good, right? Just ask Steve Kragthorpe.

UCONN (as best as I can to remove my UCONN colored glasses right now)? Good academics, seemingly on the rise; Basketball school with young football history. Football is exiting its own Steve Kragthorpe era (the Pasqualoni era could not have come at a WORSE time) and attendance has dropped in each of the past 3 seasons under Pasqualoni. Donald Brown, Tyvon Branch, Jordan Todman and Darius Butler went there. Actually (because we have no long-term history), I'll tell you that 19 UCONN guys are currently in the NFL. That's more than Pittsburgh (15), Louisville (14), and Syracuse (12). http://espn.go.com/nfl/college/_/letter/c But if changes aren't made to rid UCONN from its old AD and old coach (old coach, quite literally), then UCONN must not care about football whatsoever…oh wait, we did make house-clearing changes?? Hmmmm. But all of this HAS to be a mistake because, because we have zero history, are located in the northeast, and are a BASKETBALL school, right?! Basketball has won more national titles than the other three on this list combined over the past 3+ decades and sports a ridiculous pipeline to the NBA, even when the player who went UCONN wasn't even good while at UCONN (see: Andre Drummond). Successfully replaced its coaching legend in house and continues to be recognized as one of the top 5 programs in the country even after an APR blip last season. Penetrates NYC (more successfully than the Fruitcakes) and Boston (as successfully as BC) markets while playing second fiddle to…CCSU? ECSU? University of Hartford? Nobody? Ding ding ding! Nobody within its own decent sized market.

Quite honestly, I have grown to hate the ACC. Not the grandfathered schools so much. But BC, Pitt, Cuse, and Louisville can all sahq on it. For what it's worth, so can the U (aka - Boats and Hoes) for their continued efforts to keep crime alive right under the held noses of the NCAA, Duke for always being one of a very small handful of teams that always concern me come Tournament time, and Wake Forrest for being grandfathered into a money conference despite bringing absolutely nothing to the table and for declaring their open football coaching position to be better than UCONN's when it clearly isn't. If I had a highly hypothetical and wishful thinking choice of UCONN joining the ACC today or the B1G in 5 years, I'd wait to the join the B1G (assuming we couldn't get out of the GOR and pay a $50M exit fee). I think UCONN is better suited for the B1G, a conference that strives for athletic achievement (except Rutgers) while maintaining academic excellence amongst large public state universities. It's a northern conference, which I like, that plays all of the sports that I like (football, basketball, hockey, soccer, baseball). And Louisville Community College isn't in it (and never would be). The fact that UCONN isn't already better positioned for a B1G invite is a sad indictment of past university Presidents and, to some extent, Athletic Directors (except Lew Perkins) who failed in every measurable way to think forwardly.

B1G or Bust. F the ACC.

Hey! Eastern has much much much nicer baseball facilities!

 

[pj]

Frank, I agree with this, but here is the net result. His block made three conferences worse, and less geographically cohesive. It was huge blunder that hurt college sports. Then they repeated it with Louisville, again worrying about the Big 12 and not themselves.

The Big 12 is weaker and more disfunctional without Pitt and Louisville and with WVU on an island. It needs two schools and has few options that make sense.
The ACC is worse, as Pitt and Louisville are not on the Atlantic Coast, and don't fit will with the other schools from a cohestive marketing perspective. They are both more midwestern and the ACC has zero chance of making significant inroads in those areas (B1G and SEC territory).
The B1G is worse, because it got suckered into taking Rutgers by the allure of NY's bright lights, to pair with MD.

Had Swofford just worried about his conference and not the B12, he would have UConn and Rutgers in place of Louisville and Pitt. The true stranglehold that UConn, Rutgers and Syracuse combined, plus ND, give the ACC in the NY metro would have upped their negotiating position with ESPN. They would own the Atlantic coast, from Boston to Miami. Swofford and the Presidents were morons not to see this and now they have instead lost their hold on the DC metro as well. It was short sighted and not a smart move for the ACC.

Exactly right. Not sure if it was Swofford's mistake or idiotic college presidents at BC and the southern schools, but criteria besides optimizing the value of the ACC were given priority. Trading Louisville, Pitt, and Syracuse for UConn, Rutgers, and Maryland would be a no-brainer, if maximizing the value of the ACC were the goal.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Keep b

Frank, I agree with this, but here is the net result. His block made three conferences worse, and less geographically cohesive. It was huge blunder that hurt college sports. Then they repeated it with Louisville, again worrying about the Big 12 and not themselves.

The Big 12 is weaker and more disfunctional without Pitt and Louisville and with WVU on an island. It needs two schools and has few options that make sense.
The ACC is worse, as Pitt and Louisville are not on the Atlantic Coast, and don't fit will with the other schools from a cohestive marketing perspective. They are both more midwestern and the ACC has zero chance of making significant inroads in those areas (B1G and SEC territory).
The B1G is worse, because it got suckered into taking Rutgers by the allure of NY's bright lights, to pair with MD.

Had Swofford just worried about his conference and not the B12, he would have UConn and Rutgers in place of Louisville and Pitt. The true stranglehold that UConn, Rutgers and Syracuse combined, plus ND, give the ACC in the NY metro would have upped their negotiating position with ESPN. They would own the Atlantic coast, from Boston to Miami. Swofford and the Presidents were morons not to see this and now they have instead lost their hold on the DC metro as well. It was short sighted and not a smart move for the ACC.

those three plus Cinn right across the river from Kentucky would have really. Bolstered the the Big 12 plus planted their flag in both SEC and Big territory.
Why was that conference stupid?
Not many strategic thinkers in Texas.

 

[pj]

those three plus Cinn right across the river from Louisville would have really. Bolstered the the Big 12 plus planted their flag in both SEC and Big territory.
Why was that conference stupid?
Not many strategic thinkers in Texas.

Adding Pitt/WVU/Cincy/L'ville would have really diluted B12 revenues and moved them distinctly to #5 in per-team revenues among the conferences. Maybe strategically it would have left them better off, but that is a major bet. Remember that Texas and Oklahoma and Kansas have suitors, so the more you dilute the B12 and increase travel, the more the B12 ceases to have an advantage compared to the SEC or B1G or Pac. That would be a recipe for dissolution of the conference at the next TV contract expiration.

 

[hthusky74]

Frank, I agree with this, but here is the net result. His block made three conferences worse, and less geographically cohesive. It was huge blunder that hurt college sports. Then they repeated it with Louisville, again worrying about the Big 12 and not themselves.

The Big 12 is weaker and more disfunctional without Pitt and Louisville and with WVU on an island. It needs two schools and has few options that make sense.
The ACC is worse, as Pitt and Louisville are not on the Atlantic Coast, and don't fit will with the other schools from a cohestive marketing perspective. They are both more midwestern and the ACC has zero chance of making significant inroads in those areas (B1G and SEC territory).
The B1G is worse, because it got suckered into taking Rutgers by the allure of NY's bright lights, to pair with MD.

Had Swofford just worried about his conference and not the B12, he would have UConn and Rutgers in place of Louisville and Pitt. The true stranglehold that UConn, Rutgers and Syracuse combined, plus ND, give the ACC in the NY metro would have upped their negotiating position with ESPN. They would own the Atlantic coast, from Boston to Miami. Swofford and the Presidents were morons not to see this and now they have instead lost their hold on the DC metro as well. It was short sighted and not a smart move for the ACC.

Syracuse is not on the Atlantic Coast either.

 

[Stinger92860]

Look - I get the consternation from people here, but Pitt was a fairly valuable piece in the conference realignment game and scored high in virtually every metric that university presidents said was important: it's an AAU school with a long football history located in a good-sized market and an excellent football recruiting ground. They would have been in the Big Ten years ago if they had been located virtually anywhere other than a Big Ten state. Pitt also had a second suitor to play off of the ACC: the Big 12. Believe me - the Big 12 didn't want WVU just hanging out east by itself as a geographic outlier. They were targeting Pitt, WVU and Louisville for a 3-team expansion and would have gone to 12 with that combo. (Just think of how much more the northern part of the Big 12 would make more sense if that expansion had occurred, which is why that's what they originally wanted.) The ACC nixed that plan by getting Pitt first (and to be sure, Pitt *definitely* preferred the ACC to the Big 12) and the Big 12's plan fell apart to where they basically had to take one of either WVU or Louisville alone for spackling. Whatever people might think of Swofford (and I tend to think that people outside of the ACC underestimate him while people within the ACC overestimate him), he blocked the Big 12's options big-time with both its preemptive taking of Pitt and then further grabbing Louisville.

Frank,

You absolutely have no idea of the consternation here. If you did, you would not continue to come here and push your agenda.

 

[NEforceUConn]

Dooley - great great post! I share your beliefs on a support scale of about 80% (which is high for me).

HuskyHawk - Yes history shows that the ACC and Big 12 have not made sound decisions. I think the B1G has made much better decisions and time will tell their success.

Frank - thanks for again pointing out how asleep the Big 12 was/is.

The Big 12 is really the big 2 - Texas and Oklahoma. They do not care about the long term stability of their conference, they know the Pac or SEC or BIG will take them at the drop of a hat. Every other Big 12 member is expendable.

If I were Kansas I would try every trick in the book to bolt for the B1G. Maybe a state referendum could deal the dreaded GOR null and void.

 

[btstimpy]

Frank, I agree with this, but here is the net result. His block made three conferences worse, and less geographically cohesive. It was huge blunder that hurt college sports. Then they repeated it with Louisville, again worrying about the Big 12 and not themselves.

The Big 12 is weaker and more disfunctional without Pitt and Louisville and with WVU on an island. It needs two schools and has few options that make sense.
The ACC is worse, as Pitt and Louisville are not on the Atlantic Coast, and don't fit will with the other schools from a cohestive marketing perspective. They are both more midwestern and the ACC has zero chance of making significant inroads in those areas (B1G and SEC territory).
The B1G is worse, because it got suckered into taking Rutgers by the allure of NY's bright lights, to pair with MD.

Had Swofford just worried about his conference and not the B12, he would have UConn and Rutgers in place of Louisville and Pitt. The true stranglehold that UConn, Rutgers and Syracuse combined, plus ND, give the ACC in the NY metro would have upped their negotiating position with ESPN. They would own the Atlantic coast, from Boston to Miami. Swofford and the Presidents were morons not to see this and now they have instead lost their hold on the DC metro as well. It was short sighted and not a smart move for the ACC.

I understand the point you are trying to make here. But what bothers me about the argument that the ACC has missed out on New York somehow because it doesn't have Syracuse, UConn, Rutgers, and Notre Dame is that the Big East had all four just 3 years ago and couldn't get ESPN excited. Why would putting all four in the ACC get ESPN any more excited? I don't think having all four would for football. I think ESPN would view the addition of UConn as having additional value in basketball, men and women. The question is how much is ESPN willing to pay for that?

The Big Ten's goals are different. The Presidents want collaberation with AAU universities. Jim Delaney and the BTN want new territories to shakedown cable subcribers. Whomever they take needs to satisfy both goals. Obviously inviting someone with a lot of athletic achievement is not one of their goals right now.