ACC rumor from the Fat White Guy

[SouthronCross]

I disagree UConn will get an ACC offer if UConn has a remote B1g chance.
We might even accept. Why. Because of BC and Syracuse.
along with no

Even you are dissing BCU who is on the Atlantic.

Damn, I did, didn't I? Well now, I am ashamed for doing so. Bad ACC fan that I am.

 

[HawkHusky]

every other week the same old BC vs. UConn argument gets rehashed. Fellas:

1) BC did not want UConn
2) #1 doesn't matter, because BC has no stroke within the ACC. If UNC, UVA, and FSU wanted UConn, you'd be in.
3) Pitt was a very solid addition to ACC given combined academics, athletics, and geography. Unprovable whether Pitt would be better than UConn.

All three of above can co-exist.

Why do so many people like to post inaccurate information?

#1 is correct

In regards to #2: UVA, UNC, Duke, and Wake (basketball focused schools) were pro UCONN to join the league. It was the deeper south football contingent that voted otherwise.

In regards to #3: Academics are good (not as good as UConn in most rankings). Modern day athletics are mediocre at best. Geographically Pitt is a pro sports city - the few that care about U of Pitt are in Pitt - the rest of PA sways Penn State or Philly schools.

I may be new to this board, but I can spot a troll when I see one.

 

[pj]

Damn, I did, didn't I? Well now, I am ashamed for doing so. Bad ACC fan that I am.

don't give in so easily. BC is at least 2 miles from the Atlantic coast.

 

[CL82]

I understand the point you are trying to make here. But what bothers me about the argument that the ACC has missed out on New York somehow because it doesn't have Syracuse, UConn, Rutgers, and Notre Dame is that the Big East had all four just 3 years ago and couldn't get ESPN excited. Why would putting all four in the ACC get ESPN any more excited? I don't think having all four would for football. I think ESPN would view the addition of UConn as having additional value in basketball, men and women. The question is how much is ESPN willing to pay for that?

The Big Ten's goals are different. The Presidents want collaberation with AAU universities. Jim Delaney and the BTN want new territories to shakedown cable subcribers. Whomever they take needs to satisfy both goals. Obviously inviting someone with a lot of athletic achievement is not one of their goals right now.

ESPN was excited enough about them to finance the evisceration of the Big East when they threatened to go elsewhere. I agree in principal with your second paragraph. The B1G will invite whichever institutions advance their goals and satisfy their needs. I do think that they have much longer term view than the ACC. I think Swofford has done well, in that it could have very well been the ACC that was scavenged to death, but his moves were short term and reactionary. Time will tell how they'll hold up.

 

[SouthronCross]

don't give in so easily. BC is at least 2 miles from the Atlantic coast.

I just can't bring myself to do that. Sorry, dude.

 

[btstimpy]

ESPN was excited enough about them to finance the evisceration of the Big East when they threatened to go elsewhere. I agree in principal with your second paragraph. The B1G will whichever institutions advance their goals and satisfy their needs. I do think that they have much longer term view than the ACC. I think Swofford has done well, in that it could have very well been the ACC that was scavenged to death, but his moves were short term and reactionary. Time will tell how they'll hold up.

Do you really believe that ESPN was vindictive toward the Big East? Big East basketball pretty well made ESPN what it is today in college sports. I think the Big East was the first conference to get a big contract with ESPN in the 80s. I'm not sure that I believe that. I just don't know how much ESPN is willing to pay the ACC per year to add another school or two. The ACC won't add just to add. I don't know how much they would pay the Big Ten either, or how much FOX would pay the Big Ten.

What happened to the Big East was more the result of the shift in audience appetite from basketball to football. The core of the Big East was a basketball conference like the Atlantic 10. The Big East tried to bolt on some outside football programs, but the configuration was not workable long term, and the decision makers remained at Providence who doesn't even play football. The Big East is now back to its roots. That's my opinion anyway.

 

[upstater]

Dooley, that was an excellent read. I appreciate the effort that must have taken.



In the long term it will be a blip, but it couldn't have happenned at a worse time. The last thing we needed to do was give anyone a reason to deny us. I'm not suggesting it was used that way since I have no insider knowledge, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was.



I'm not a religious man, but I can muster up an AMEN to this. AMEN!

Louisville failed the APR for football.

So...

And UNC had its troubles.

I suspect APR wasn't a big issue since Louisville was docked scholarships in football.

 

[upstater]

Do you really believe that ESPN was vindictive toward the Big East? Big East basketball pretty well made ESPN what it is today in college sports. I think the Big East was the first conference to get a big contract with ESPN in the 80s. I'm not sure that I believe that. I just don't know how much ESPN is willing to pay the ACC per year to add another school or two. The ACC won't add just to add. I don't know how much they would pay the Big Ten either, or how much FOX would pay the Big Ten.

What happened to the Big East was more the result of the shift in audience appetite from basketball to football. The core of the Big East was a basketball conference like the Atlantic 10. The Big East tried to bolt on some outside football programs, but the configuration was not workable long term, and the decision makers remained at Providence who doesn't even play football. The Big East is now back to its roots. That's my opinion anyway.

The core? You mean the teams that weren't relevant for 24 years? The core all played football, and the tacked on teams were Louisville, Cincy and USF.

 

[btstimpy]

Why do so many people like to post inaccurate information?

#1 is correct

In regards to #2: UVA, UNC, Duke, and Wake (basketball focused schools) were pro UCONN to join the league. It was the deeper south football contingent that voted otherwise.

In regards to #3: Academics are good (not as good as UConn in most rankings). Modern day athletics are mediocre at best. Geographically Pitt is a pro sports city - the few that care about U of Pitt are in Pitt - the rest of PA sways Penn State or Philly schools.

I may be new to this board, but I can spot a troll when I see one.

Should the ACC decide to look at new members again, UConn has support in the ACC. It's with the schools that care the most about academics and the schools that care the most about basketball. Work needs to be done to convince the schools that care the most about football within the ACC. And then there is the BC issue that doesn't make sense to me.

However, much of the sentiment around here is for UConn's preference for the Big Ten. I imagine that the Big Ten's eastern schools (PSU, Rutgers, and Maryland) would support UConn. Beyond that no clue with the midwestern schools. Frank the Tank would be able to give you a better idea.

 

[btstimpy]

The core? You mean the teams that weren't relevant for 24 years? The core all played football, and the tacked on teams were Louisville, Cincy and USF.

To me the Core are Syracuse, Connecticut, Georgetown, Providence, Seton Hall, Villanova, St. John's, and Boston College. Out of that core only Syracuse and Boston College played FBS football for most of the life of the Big East. UConn added it about 10 years ago.

20 years ago, the Big East bolted on Virginia Tech, Miami, West Virginia, Rutgers, Pittsburgh, and Temple. And the core was really selective with whom they allowed to play ball so to speak in basketball. Basketball was their main mission. I can remember Virginia Tech bolted on for a long time while playing basketball in the Atlantic 10. Temple was bolted on too. I'm not sure about Miami. Don't remember.

My original point was that the Big East was a basketball conference trying to accomodate football on the side. On of the benefits of the American is that everyone is on the same page.

 

[upstater]

To me the Core are Syracuse, Connecticut, Georgetown, Providence, Seton Hall, Villanova, St. John's, and Boston College. Out of that core only Syracuse and Boston College played FBS football for most of the life of the Big East. UConn added it about 10 years ago.

20 years ago, the Big East bolted on Virginia Tech, Miami, West Virginia, Rutgers, Pittsburgh, and Temple. And the core was really selective with whom they allowed to play ball so to speak in basketball. Basketball was their main mission. I can remember Virginia Tech bolted on for a long time while playing basketball in the Atlantic 10. Temple was bolted on too. I'm not sure about Miami. Don't remember.

My original point was that the Big East was a basketball conference trying to accomodate football on the side. On of the benefits of the American is that everyone is on the same page.

This wasn't true since 1992. It was in that year that the football schools told the Catholic schools that they were leaving the conference. Basketball wasn't the main mission as of 1992. The VT thing was a result of Cuse getting cold feet in the end, and when that happened, the Catholics agreed to enlarge with football schools, though VT bball wasn't added. Since 1992, the original mission of the conference changed. That was 20 years ago, and in the ensuing years, Pitt, UConn and Cuse dominated BE basketball. Only Louisville joined them decade later, another football school.

 

[kingdobbs]

Also, Pitt is not a member of the "football group" that came aboard in the late 90s; they were in point of fact a full member of the conference since 1982.

If Villanova (member since 1980, but not since founding) is a core member, so is Pitt.

 

[btstimpy]

Also, Pitt is not a member of the "football group" that came aboard in the late 90s; they were in point of fact a full member of the conference since 1982.

If Villanova (member since 1980, but not since founding) is a core member, so is Pitt.

Ok. Didn't realize Pitt joined that far back. Thought they came with West Virginia.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

I suspect APR wasn't a big issue since Louisville was docked scholarships in football.

It seemed to me, and maybe it's because of reading the BY, that we were the poster boys for failing the APR. Again, I'm not suggesting it was used against us, but when someone already doesn't want us it gives them another card to play.

 

[btstimpy]

This wasn't true since 1992. It was in that year that the football schools told the Catholic schools that they were leaving the conference. Basketball wasn't the main mission as of 1992. The VT thing was a result of Cuse getting cold feet in the end, and when that happened, the Catholics agreed to enlarge with football schools, though VT bball wasn't added. Since 1992, the original mission of the conference changed. That was 20 years ago, and in the ensuing years, Pitt, UConn and Cuse dominated BE basketball. Only Louisville joined them decade later, another football school.

Ok. Given this then there were a lot of transitional things going on elsewhere that led to more changes. In 1992, the ACC added Florida State and considered Syracuse. But Syracuse wanted to only join the ACC in football keeping the rest in the Big East. The ACC didn't want that. This was part of the cold feet. Jake Crouthamel really wanted to keep basketball in the Big East. The SEC added USC and Arkansas and started the whole conference championship game in football idea. The Big XII did the same when it was formed a few years later. The strong success of those championship games convinced the ACC that it needed one, which led to the ACC expansion of 2002. It's ironic that the Big XII's is caput. That's what happens when a No 1 Texas or Kansas State gets knocked out of the BCS Championship by losing its conference championship game I guess.

I wonder if the Catholics had spit off in 1992 if it would have made a difference with the Big East adding Virginia Tech, West Virginia, Miami, etc. as far as keeping that group together. I hadn't realized that the Catholics (Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, etc) didn't do much in basketball after 1992. They've been NCAA tournament teams, but I guess not title contenders. UConn was playing FCS football in 1992. Would UConn have gone with the Catholics? It's just gut speculation at this point, but it's an interesting to ponder.

 

[upstater]

Ok. Given this then there were a lot of transitional things going on elsewhere that led to more changes. In 1992, the ACC added Florida State and considered Syracuse. But Syracuse wanted to only join the ACC in football keeping the rest in the Big East. The ACC didn't want that. This was part of the cold feet. Jake Crouthamel really wanted to keep basketball in the Big East. The SEC added USC and Arkansas and started the whole conference championship game in football idea. The Big XII did the same when it was formed a few years later. The strong success of those championship games convinced the ACC that it needed one, which led to the ACC expansion of 2002. It's ironic that the Big XII's is caput. That's what happens when a No 1 Texas or Kansas State gets knocked out of the BCS Championship by losing its conference championship game I guess.

I wonder if the Catholics had spit off in 1992 if it would have made a difference with the Big East adding Virginia Tech, West Virginia, Miami, etc. as far as keeping that group together. I hadn't realized that the Catholics (Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, etc) didn't do much in basketball after 1992. They've been NCAA tournament teams, but I guess not title contenders. UConn was playing FCS football in 1992. Would UConn have gone with the Catholics? It's just gut speculation at this point, but it's an interesting to ponder.

There was a lot going on, you're right. Actually, the league was going to split but UConn played the intermediary, and got the Catholics to reconcile. UConn's president saved the conference. UConn would have gone with the football schools. Prior to the 1992 almost-split, UConn's AD was already moving toward D1. I suspect the breakup of the BE would have accelerated things. As it was, the AD battled first to build an on-campus stadium. That was shot down. Then, after UConn's move up was approved, the state got involved with the New England Patriots potentially moving to Conn. This happened in the mid to late 1990s. That delayed everything for UConn. Until the Patriots decided to go back to Foxboro in 1999, UConn was slated to move into a domed stadium in Hartford. When the Patriots left, the school went back to square one. Which was unfortunate because UConn actually went up to FBS in 2000, not 2004. The BE had already agreed to accept UConn as a football member prior to that. The ACC split accelerated UConn's buy-in.

By the way, G'town went 20 years between Final 8s.

 

[CL82]

Do you really believe that ESPN was vindictive toward the Big East? Big East basketball pretty well made ESPN what it is today in college sports. I think the Big East was the first conference to get a big contract with ESPN in the 80s. I'm not sure that I believe that. I just don't know how much ESPN is willing to pay the ACC per year to add another school or two. The ACC won't add just to add. I don't know how much they would pay the Big Ten either, or how much FOX would pay the Big Ten.

What happened to the Big East was more the result of the shift in audience appetite from basketball to football. The core of the Big East was a basketball conference like the Atlantic 10. The Big East tried to bolt on some outside football programs, but the configuration was not workable long term, and the decision makers remained at Providence who doesn't even play football. The Big East is now back to its roots. That's my opinion anyway.

No I don't believe they were vindictive at all. I believe they were ruthless in pursuing what made the most business sense to them. The establishment of another effective all sports network was a dangerous to them. They prevented it from happening. We were collateral damage.

If ESPN did not finance the ACC's raids on the Big East by repeatedly renegotiating the ACC contract upward after every raid, the Big East is intact today. There's no doubt that ESPN is the villain, (or catalyst, if you prefer) in all of this. Their actions are well documented. That doesn't make them "vindictive" it makes them pragmatic... ruthlessly pragmatic.

 

[CL82]

. I imagine that the Big Ten's eastern schools (PSU, Rutgers, and Maryland) would support UConn. Beyond that no clue with the midwestern schools. Frank the Tank would be able to give you a better idea.

Hmmn, I prefer B1GALUM's take.

 

[SouthronCross]

It seemed to me, and maybe it's because of reading the BY, that we were the poster boys for failing the APR. Again, I'm not suggesting it was used against us, but when someone already doesn't want us it gives them another card to play.

No, your APR situation had nothing to do with how the ACC schools voted, in regards to UConn.

From what we found out here on Tobacco Road, it was the four NC schools, UVA, and, UMD who supported UConn.

FSU and Clemson were the most outspoken against you. Ga Tech and Miami voted with them, as did VPI and BC.

I cannot speak on how Pitt or Syracuse voted, or, if they even had a vote, for adding you all to the league.

I do still hold out hope that you will get in.

 

[billybud]

There had been a mini war going on in the ACC for several years....the feeling, by some programs like FSU, that the Tobacco Road mob wanted to control the conference....and UConn might have been colllateral damage in that guerilla war.

This impression of North Carolina control was abetted by the fact that Swofford was an ex UNC athletic director and had a building on campus named for him.

The crap hit the fan when it was FSU always traveling to a Thursday night game, year after year...including all the way to Boston, while UNC rarely was assigned such a game and when they did play on Thursday night, it was a short hop down the road. The whole schedulling by the ACC was getting under folks' skin. FSU always had a conference game before the Florida game while Florida played their subs against Jacksonville State, FIU. the Citadel, etc. the week before.

It was also the appearance of biased officiating (finally FSU did a 5 year study on calls on FSU vs Carolina schools and published the info), and it was out right war between Coach K and the football factions regarding which sport should take precedence in future planning.

Coach K, Roy Williams, and John Swofford were seen as a ruling triumvirate. FSU made a lot of noise, played a bluff card or two, built its own voting block...and decided that there would be another voice in the conference.

 

[pj]

There had been a mini war going on in the ACC for several years....the feeling, by some programs like FSU, that the Tobacco Road mob wanted to control the conference....and UConn might have been colllateral damage in that guerilla war.

This impression of North Carolina control was abetted by the fact that Swofford was an ex UNC athletic director and had a building on campus named for him.

The crap hit the fan when it was FSU always traveling to a Thursday night game, year after year...including all the way to Boston, while UNC rarely was assigned such a game and when they did play on Thursday night, it was a short hop down the road. The whole schedulling by the ACC was getting under folks' skin. FSU always had a conference game before the Florida game while Florida played their subs against Jacksonville State, FIU. the Citadel, etc. the week before.

It was also the appearance of biased officiating (finally FSU did a 5 year study on calls on FSU vs Carolina schools and published the info), and it was out right war between Coach K and the football factions regarding which sport should take precedence in future planning.

Coach K, Roy Williams, and John Swofford were seen as a ruling triumvirate. FSU made a lot of noise, played a bluff card or two, built its own voting block...and decided that there would be another voice in the conference.

Exactly. And given the petty constituencies and rivalries in the ACC, that always seem to lead to hostility to UConn, can it surprise that many UConn fans have become more interested in the B1G? Whether we're collateral damage or one of the targets, why go to a conference where people will shoot at us?

 

[btstimpy]

There had been a mini war going on in the ACC for several years....the feeling, by some programs like FSU, that the Tobacco Road mob wanted to control the conference....and UConn might have been colllateral damage in that guerilla war.

This impression of North Carolina control was abetted by the fact that Swofford was an ex UNC athletic director and had a building on campus named for him.

The crap hit the fan when it was FSU always traveling to a Thursday night game, year after year...including all the way to Boston, while UNC rarely was assigned such a game and when they did play on Thursday night, it was a short hop down the road. The whole schedulling by the ACC was getting under folks' skin. FSU always had a conference game before the Florida game while Florida played their subs against Jacksonville State, FIU. the Citadel, etc. the week before.

It was also the appearance of biased officiating (finally FSU did a 5 year study on calls on FSU vs Carolina schools and published the info), and it was out right war between Coach K and the football factions regarding which sport should take precedence in future planning.

Coach K, Roy Williams, and John Swofford were seen as a ruling triumvirate. FSU made a lot of noise, played a bluff card or two, built its own voting block...and decided that there would be another voice in the conference.

I'm surprised that FSU fans didn't like Thursday night games. They offer more visibility. Virginia Tech holds up their hand every year to play Thursday night games, sometimes 3 a season. UVA has had to go play them in Miami and Atlanta many times. The only home ones I can remember are against Clemson 10 years ago and against UNC 2 years ago.

The ACC was slow to recognize what the SEC was doing by giving their schools a week off before playing the in state ACC rival. I think that's now corrected.

The officiating bias perception and strong personalities with agendas are in all the major conferences. I read the Penn State Board sometimes, and they see the Big Ten officials making all the calls in favor of Ohio State and Michigan. Apparently the Penn State fans got an unsportsmanlike penalty for noise one time while playing Ohio State in State College. They see Jim Delaney as biased toward Michigan and Ohio State. The same is perceived in the Big XII. Texas and Oklahoma rule the roost. And the PAC 12 does what UCLA and USC want. Alabama throws its weight around in the SEC, and LSU is tired of it.

I don't think the ACC is unique in that regard. The calls you're talking about are football related. Coach K gets all the calls in basketball especially at home. Dean Smith used to get them before Coach K. There is an art to working the officials that those coaches mastered.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

I dont like how the acc treated uconn, but geographically, the acc makes the most sense, and who wouldn't want to see uconn play duke, unc and cuse yearly in bball? it just makes too much sense, but on the flip side playing mich, ohio st and penn st in football would be equally appealing. This will be a dance with the devil if it ever comes down to both conferences suiting uconn. herbst and warde will make the right call.

ultimately, I think it will come down to the large pile of cash that the 10 will throw our way. This will happen someday, and it will be so nice to watch how it unfolds and I'll enjoy watching Swofford put lipstick on the acc pig.

There had been a mini war going on in the ACC for several years....the feeling, by some programs like FSU, that the Tobacco Road mob wanted to control the conference....and UConn might have been colllateral damage in that guerilla war.

This impression of North Carolina control was abetted by the fact that Swofford was an ex UNC athletic director and had a building on campus named for him.

The crap hit the fan when it was FSU always traveling to a Thursday night game, year after year...including all the way to Boston, while UNC rarely was assigned such a game and when they did play on Thursday night, it was a short hop down the road. The whole schedulling by the ACC was getting under folks' skin. FSU always had a conference game before the Florida game while Florida played their subs against Jacksonville State, FIU. the Citadel, etc. the week before.

It was also the appearance of biased officiating (finally FSU did a 5 year study on calls on FSU vs Carolina schools and published the info), and it was out right war between Coach K and the football factions regarding which sport should take precedence in future planning.

Coach K, Roy Williams, and John Swofford were seen as a ruling triumvirate. FSU made a lot of noise, played a bluff card or two, built its own voting block...and decided that there would be another voice in the conference.

Because of this, you ended up with Louisville the commuter school. FSU got a school it can finally feel superior to academically so congrats. Like many said, ACC's expansion was reactionary and we will see how this will play out long term. As a flagship state university, UCONN is a better for the B1G now that conference is coming to the East.

 

[HawkHusky]

There had been a mini war going on in the ACC for several years....the feeling, by some programs like FSU, that the Tobacco Road mob wanted to control the conference....and UConn might have been colllateral damage in that guerilla war.

This impression of North Carolina control was abetted by the fact that Swofford was an ex UNC athletic director and had a building on campus named for him.

The crap hit the fan when it was FSU always traveling to a Thursday night game, year after year...including all the way to Boston, while UNC rarely was assigned such a game and when they did play on Thursday night, it was a short hop down the road. The whole schedulling by the ACC was getting under folks' skin. FSU always had a conference game before the Florida game while Florida played their subs against Jacksonville State, FIU. the Citadel, etc. the week before.

It was also the appearance of biased officiating (finally FSU did a 5 year study on calls on FSU vs Carolina schools and published the info), and it was out right war between Coach K and the football factions regarding which sport should take precedence in future planning.

Coach K, Roy Williams, and John Swofford were seen as a ruling triumvirate. FSU made a lot of noise, played a bluff card or two, built its own voting block...and decided that there would be another voice in the conference.

All I want for Christmas (besides UCONN in the B1G) is for the Auburn Tigers to maul the Seminoles in the National Championship.

 

[dayooper]

All I want for Christmas (besides UCONN in the B1G) is for the Auburn Tigers to maul the Seminoles in the National Championship.

I wouldn't mind having UConn in the Big10 (along with some other teams). I understand why you would want FSU to lose, but I couldn't stomach another SEC championship and the hype to go with it.