Yum...is this crow?! It's delicious!

[jibsey]

It's the only way he goes that is if somebody proves he (Boeheim) knew something, but all it takes is one and ther may be that person still waiting to come forward. JB is not sleeping well.

 

[Danzz]

This is not a basketball rivalry issue. Despite how you feel about the fan base this is a human issue. I take no pleasure in the pain of the Syracuse fan base when it falls outside the realm of fair competition in sports. This is tragic and disgusting no matter which program. Back when dook lax had its scandal and it was still believed that the allegations were true I was put on the spot by a friend in front of a dook grad. I was asked if I was happy about the dook scandal. I said the same: this goes way beyond mere sports rivalry. We are all on the same "team" when it comes to condemning these disgusting crimes.

This is a matter of alleged child abuse. There is no happy side to this.

 

[SouthTampaBill]

The Syracuse Board is still hammering ESPN and Schwarz for this.
They were reporting the truth.

And they will not fire Boeheim for his calling the accusers liars.
If he knew a good deal more about this "Fine mess", than is being reported, he is gone in my opinion.

 

[upstater]

Another shoe is sure to drop. Two things here:

1. The Feds just searched his home. They were looking for something. I bet they found it.

2. How in the world did Syracuse not know of the existence of this tape? They claim it was never provided. And ESPN backs them up on that saying Davis didn't give them the tape.

But seeing how PSU's Spanier reacted to a tape of child abuse in another case (i.e. not Sandusky) I wonder if lawyers tell schools to never look at such incriminating evidence for fear of losing plausible deniability (in a civil court case).

How in the world did the law firm Syracuse hired not know of this tape? IMPOSSIBLE. If they didn't know, then they were sweeping this under the rug from the very beginning. Boeheim survives only to the extent that his survival also protects the President's office and her own culpability. This is similar to PSU to the extent that Spanier and Paterno's survival were linked. If one goes, so does the other. The smoking guns are in the possession of the Feds and also in the report issued to Syracuse. If that report kicked around a few stones and nothing else, then you can't say it was very thorough. Did they talk to the Post Standard? Did they talk to ESPN?

 

[DogMania]

Sandusky was 55 when he was fired/retired. Not really all that old.

Then there was the rumor that Paterno stepped in when Sandusky interviewed for the HC job at Virginia and gave a bad rec. Eventually, what happened at PSU in 1998 will come out.

Although he retired at 55 he stuck around the PSU and the program long after that. It looks like both program wanted to keep their monsters from wandering too far from their blind watching eyes (yeah contradictory concept that is unfortunately accurate) so that their dirty little secret would not get out and stain their programs.

Maybe I'm wrong, but you just don't get away with this sort of thing w/out someone knowing something. I'll be surprised if this doesn't blow up on Boeheim. I hope that's not the case.

It's sad to think that Jimmy B's run could end like this. I liked how he and JC have jockeyed for NCAA wins position over the years. I think they're tied again. This might be the deciding factor with JC pulling away in the end. Granted trivial to what's going on, but I thought it was worth noting.

I finally got to hear part of the tapes and wow! His wife's comments are big time damning for him. This is going to get ugly.

 

[tzznandrew]

Another shoe is sure to drop. Two things here:

1. The Feds just searched his home. They were looking for something. I bet they found it.

2. How in the world did Syracuse not know of the existence of this tape? They claim it was never provided. And ESPN backs them up on that saying Davis didn't give them the tape.

But seeing how PSU's Spanier reacted to a tape of child abuse in another case (i.e. not Sandusky) I wonder if lawyers tell schools to never look at such incriminating evidence for fear of losing plausible deniability (in a civil court case).

How in the world did the law firm Syracuse hired not know of this tape? IMPOSSIBLE. If they didn't know, then they were sweeping this under the rug from the very beginning. Boeheim survives only to the extent that his survival also protects the President's office and her own culpability. This is similar to PSU to the extent that Spanier and Paterno's survival were linked. If one goes, so does the other. The smoking guns are in the possession of the Feds and also in the report issued to Syracuse. If that report kicked around a few stones and nothing else, then you can't say it was very thorough. Did they talk to the Post Standard? Did they talk to ESPN?

Backing you up. This poster seems legit (knew about the tape before anyone else).
http://syracusefan.com/threads/fine.9448/

 

[jleves]

I hope Syracuse gets the death penalty. This brewing situation probably influenced their decision to jump to the ACC when the smart financial move would have been to stick with the Big East. The ACC had and still has a mediocre TV deal and the Big East was getting fantastic signals from NBC, but Syracuse knew it had to jump because there was an anvil about to fall on the program, and probably convinced Pitt to jump too.

Syracuse has put UConn's athletic program in jeopardy because of conference realignment, and I have to believe that this situation played a role.

We're going to get hit with a child abuse case - we better go to the ACC. WTF?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

 

[ctchamps]

Another shoe is sure to drop. Two things here:

1. The Feds just searched his home. They were looking for something. I bet they found it.

2. How in the world did Syracuse not know of the existence of this tape? They claim it was never provided. And ESPN backs them up on that saying Davis didn't give them the tape.

But seeing how PSU's Spanier reacted to a tape of child abuse in another case (i.e. not Sandusky) I wonder if lawyers tell schools to never look at such incriminating evidence for fear of losing plausible deniability (in a civil court case).

How in the world did the law firm Syracuse hired not know of this tape? IMPOSSIBLE. If they didn't know, then they were sweeping this under the rug from the very beginning. Boeheim survives only to the extent that his survival also protects the President's office and her own culpability. This is similar to PSU to the extent that Spanier and Paterno's survival were linked. If one goes, so does the other. The smoking guns are in the possession of the Feds and also in the report issued to Syracuse. If that report kicked around a few stones and nothing else, then you can't say it was very thorough. Did they talk to the Post Standard? Did they talk to ESPN?

ESPN knew about the tape in 2002. Did they have the voices tested for authenticity? If they refused to go public with the story because they didn't have corroboration, why didn't they turn the tape over to the police in 2002 and let the police investigate? Instead the investigation didn't take place until 2005.

It's hard to believe no tape was presented in the 2005 investigation. The only possible explanation I can think of is no one supported Davis when he showed the tape in 2002. But I find this hard to believe. SU, the investigation and those involved with the investigation, and even ESPN if Syracuse put pressure to have the story kept quiet as you alluded in another post, have a lot of questions to answer.

No one believed Davis before the tape. Now it appears his accusations are validated. This is bad news for JB, a coach I have admired. Davis claimed when this story broke a ten days ago, that JB observed Fine and Davis in an awkward situation in a hotel room, which JB denied. No one believed Davis at the time. I doubt that will continue after the incriminating tape has surfaced.

I had hoped that Davis and Lang were not abused and they fabricated the entire story. I feel horrible for them and bad that JB may not survive this.

 

[upstater]

Although he retired at 55 he stuck around the PSU and the program long after that. It looks like both program wanted to keep their monsters from wandering too far from their blind watching eyes (yeah contradictory concept that is unfortunately accurate) so that their dirty little secret would not get out and stain their programs.

Maybe I'm wrong, but you just don't get away with this sort of thing w/out someone knowing something. I'll be surprised if this doesn't blow up on Boeheim. I hope that's not the case.

It's sad to think that Jimmy B's run could end like this. I liked how he and JC have jockeyed for NCAA wins position over the years. I think they're tied again. This might be the deciding factor with JC pulling away in the end. Granted trivial to what's going on, but I thought it was worth noting.

I finally got to hear part of the tapes and wow! His wife's comments are big time damning for him. This is going to get ugly.

Of course they knew. Lotsa people did after 1998. But the entire story hasn't been told yet. There are a lot of people who went head-to-head on what to do about Sandusky.

By the way, the transcript of the tapes is a lot more damaging than the portion of the tapes that ESPN has played back so far.

 

[Dove]

I have sympathy for the Cuse fans just like I do for fans of PSU football. As a Husky fan I would be crushed if the programs I cherish crumbled to dust in just weeks.

But if anyone drifts to the Cuse board check out the thread titled "Fine" by cusefan78. A tsunami is coming to the Cuse.

 

[upstater]

I have sympathy for the Cuse fans just like I do for fans of PSU football. As a Husky fan I would be crushed if the programs I cherish crumbled to dust in just weeks.

But if anyone drifts to the Cuse board check out the thread titled "Fine" by cusefan78. A tsunami is coming to the Cuse.

I just read it. No way anyone survives that bloodbath.

A few days ago one of the posters referred to a conversation he had with a senior partner in his law firm. The partner noted that the lawfirm hired by Cuse to conduct the 2005 investigation was stellar, but that the lawyers used were not close to their best, and that the lawfirm was very well connected politically. As in central PA, the politicians are involved, the DA in 2003. But when the lurid details get out, things will blow up.

 

[Huskymaniac]

I have sympathy for the Cuse fans just like I do for fans of PSU football. As a Husky fan I would be crushed if the programs I cherish crumbled to dust in just weeks.

But if anyone drifts to the Cuse board check out the thread titled "Fine" by cusefan78. A tsunami is coming to the Cuse.

It is sad that this happened to the kids. But for the cuse fans, Karma is a bitch. They have been hammering UConn for years for stuff that paled in comparison to what happened to their program in the early 90s. And they did it out of jealousy. Their own coach is friends with Calhoun and respects him. But that never stopped them from bashing the man. Jealousy is ugly and creates a Karma shitstorm.

 

[Letsgohuskies11]

I agree, I dont really feel bad for Cuse fans. They are trying to protect Boheim anyway they can and blaming ESPN

 

[Huskymaniac]

Yep. I feel bad for the vitims first and foremost. I feel bad for Boeheim to have his legacy tarnished like this. Cuse fans can rot in hell. As rational fans, we can separate the opposing fans from the opposing coach and team. Cuse fans are not rational.

 

[RS9999X]

Maybe you should edit your post. Its your call.

Choice of words or language in this post which includes “My favorite site…”, “It’s kinda funny…” and “would rack up 10 or more victims.” is the quintessential example of why I rephrased the above quote (read my previous post) to include:

"We all should be on the same "team" when it comes to condemning these disgusting crimes."

I don’t know you personally but your choice of words are facetious and not ordinary. As a matter of fact it can easily be argued they are suspicious, eccentric and perplexing.

“Timely Reporting works. Catholic priests arrested this decade for crimes conducted after 1999 are usually one or two victims at most. Those older predators from the 50s through 80s would rack up 10 or more victims.”

Really? Here are some of the facts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases_by_country

Also I never claimed it wasn't a social problem. That is readily apparent.

I'm not sure where to begin with this as I'm not sure what your point is. Perhaps I should have specified US Catholic priests as far as the positive effects of timely reporting. The church had two major initatives on the subject--in 1993 and again in 2002 and is years ahead of its European counterparts in this whole process.

The Database of publicly abused priests is open to anyone to do counts.

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/member/index.jsp

It is an excellent resource.

I did a count during the Summer for a small project. In New Engand for example, there were 608 incidents in what are now 1,398 parishes in the Catholic Church that were filed from the 1950s to present. Of those only 10 were for activity that occured this decade.

The lawsuits might have been filed this decade but the activity was from an earlier era--generally pre-1994. Over 1/3 of the accusaitons are for dead priests and so forth.

The point of that exercise was whether the timely reporting standards resulting in criminal charges were having a positive effect and minimizing the number of victims per predator. In fact that is the case. It's a remakable change.

In the Hartford Diocese there was 1 incident with 1 victim after 1998 (when I did the count this summer ) resulting in a jail term. Then two new cases with single victims came to the surface later this Summer. Both were prompt reports --1 was an internet solicitation case and 1 was improper touching. I doubt either incident leads to jail but both will end their careers.

Back to the original point---there has been significant change in the church in the US. That $1 billion dollars bought some humility and meaningful change. There are other sectors in the US like teaching and athletic coaches where the purging is just beginning.

I was facetious about the women's list to make light of it and call attention to it. Tell me how you'd like it rewritten. I have no skin in that game.

 

[Dove]

Allow me to separate most of Cuse Nation from many of the lot who post opinions and feeling on the internets.

 

[The Funster]

I hope Boeheim isn't made a scapegoat in this. It doesn't look like he was complicit in any way. I also don't fault him for his initial comments as it appears (wrongly, it turns out) that due diligence was done with the initial claims.

I do, however, feel that ESPN really dropped the ball on this. How they could have this tape for all these years and not make it public until now is baffling. Even if ESPN didn't want to go with the story they could have passed it on to ABC for the network to run with. If there is a good reason why they sat on this recording, I've yet to hear it.

 

[upstater]

Allow me to separate most of Cuse Nation from many of the lot who post opinions and feeling on the internets.

This has always struck me as well. When I've interacted with Cuse fans at the BET over the years, they've always been great. In fact, Cuse and UConn fans seemed very similar to me.

Georgetown fans look at you like you're beneath them, and Pitt fans are just vile.

Louisville fans walk around in bewilderment.

 

[RS9999X]

More on the upcoming scandal in coaching and sexual abuse, From Seattle. Title iX is creating some problems

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/local/coaches/news/dayone.html

This is the secret side of the fast-growing world of girls sports. In a yearlong investigation that involved an ongoing court battle with school districts and the state teachers union, The Seattle Times discovered:

• Over the past decade, 159 coaches in Washington have been fired or reprimanded for sexual misconduct ranging from harassment to rape. Nearly all were male coaches victimizing girls. At least 98 of these coaches continued to coach or teach.

• The number of offending coaches is much greater. When faced with complaints against coaches, school officials often failed to investigate them and sometimes ignored a law requiring them to report suspected abuse to police. Many times, they disregarded a state law requiring them to report misconduct to the state education office.

• Even after getting caught, many men were allowed to continue coaching because school administrators promised to keep their disciplinary records secret if the coaches simply left. Some districts paid tens of thousands of dollars to get coaches to leave. Other districts hired coaches they knew had records of sexual misconduct.

• The Times analysis shows that Washington teachers who coach are three times more likely to be investigated by the state for sexual misconduct than noncoaching teachers

"Unfortunately, everyone has an investment in the silence — the parents, the team and community," said Sandra Kirby, a Canadian sociologist who studied sex abuse of athletes by coaches. "The measure is, if a coach has had good successes, that’s all they are worried about. They’re ignoring the victims."

 

[ddminct]

Backing you up. This poster seems legit (knew about the tape before anyone else).
http://syracusefan.com/threads/fine.9448/

Interesting but they have deleted that thread.

 

[RS9999X]

Classic SI Cover Story from 1999. The rise of the pedophile coaches

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/cover/news/2000/04/14/nack_nightmare/

Sandusky and Fine are the tip of the iceberg.

 

[tzznandrew]

Interesting but they have deleted that thread.

Disappointing. It was the thread titled "Fine." Oh well. Shit seems like it's about to hit the fan there.

I like Boeheim and hope he can survive this (if he, indeed, didn't know anything). It was silly, though, to call potential victims "liars," though, and that might be what ultimately costs him.

 

[upstater]

Interesting but they have deleted that thread.

That thread was a doozy

 

[tzznandrew]

That thread was a doozy

It was. I think it is okay to post what was said there (if not, mods, feel free to delete). The poster seemed legit, and was taken seriously because he had broke the tape a day before it became public.

Highlights, from memory:

1. Laurie Fine slept with several big name SU ball players from the 80s to 00s.
2. Feds raided the Fine household, found numerous letters from parents concerned about Fine's relationship with their children.
3. Fine threw out his laptop, which the feds recovered, and it was filled with seriously incriminating evidence.

I can't think of the other things at the moment.

 

[Husky999]

It was. I think it is okay to post what was said there (if not, feel free to delete mods). The poster seemed legit, and was taken seriously because he had broke the tape a day before it became public.

Highlights, from memory:

1. Laurie Fine slept with several big name SU ball players from the 80s to 00s.
2. Feds raided the Fine household, found numerous letters from parents concerned about Fine's relationship with their children.
3. Fine threw out his laptop, which the feds recovered, and it was filled with seriously incriminating evidence.

I can't think of the other things at the moment.

If any of that is true Beoheim is gone. No chance he survives that. NONE. And I truly find it hard to believe that he knew "nothing" the entire time. If the abuse was as widespread as this post indicates I just find it hard to believe that if the parents were "concerned about Fine's relationship with their children" Beoheim wasn't contacted or involved in that at all.

 

[upstater]

It was. I think it is okay to post what was said there (if not, feel free to delete mods). The poster seemed legit, and was taken seriously because he had broke the tape a day before it became public.

Highlights, from memory:

1. Laurie Fine slept with several big name SU ball players from the 80s to 00s.
2. Feds raided the Fine household, found numerous letters from parents concerned about Fine's relationship with their children.
3. Fine threw out his laptop, which the feds recovered, and it was filled with seriously incriminating evidence.

I can't think of the other things at the moment.

4. The DA knew about all this in 2003.
5. There are other accusers who are part of the investigation who don't want their identities made public as of yet.

 

[RS9999X]

More on other coaching scandals

USA Swimming from earlier this month at Sports Illustrated. This was after Sandusky

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A number of similar lawsuits have been filed around the country alleging USA Swimming covered up wrongdoing and allowed a culture of abuse to exist in its coaching ranks.

USA Swimming said it investigates misconduct complaints and revokes membership if behavior was inappropriate. It has also banned at least 46 coaches and officials for life, mostly for sexual misconduct.

Now lawyers have filed a lawsuit alleging the culture around youth swimming allows pedophile coaches to prey on the kids entrusted to their care.

"We have a rotten, sick culture in USA Swimming," said attorney Jonathan Little at a news conference Thursday. "Just like in the Penn State case, those in authority ignored sexual abuse claims and failed to report sexual abuse complaints to law enforcement

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/more/11/10/usa.swimming.lawsuit.ap/index.html#ixzz1f1LlZzEH​

 

[tzznandrew]

4. The DA knew about all this in 2003.
5. There are other accusers who are part of the investigation who don't want their identities made public as of yet.

That's right. 5 was a biggie. There's a fourth accuser who doesn't want to have his name dragged through the mud. That would, unfortunately, be damning to Boeheim, because of publicly calling potential victims liars is discouraging to other victims.

 

[RS9999X]

If any of that is true Beoheim is gone. No chance he survives that. NONE. And I truly find it hard to believe that he knew "nothing" the entire time. If the abuse was as widespread as this post indicates I just find it hard to believe that if the parents were "concerned about Fine's relationship with their children" Beoheim wasn't contacted or involved in that at all.

The funny part are the pictures of the Fine home. The captions usually point out its directly across the street from the Boeheim home.

BTW I think Jim might be OK on this and deserves the benefit of a doubt.

 

[tzznandrew]

The funny part are the pictures of the Fine home. The captions usually point out its directly across the street from the Boeheim home.

BTW I think Jim might be OK on this and deserves the benefit of a doubt.

I think he does deserve the benefit of the doubt. But will he get it? I'm not so sure, especially if that poster (who, like I said, was right before) is right with those 5 bits of information. Because here's your problem:

1. He knew about things and covered them up. He's got to go (unlikely).
2. He didn't know about things. One of his closest friends molested many children and had many players over his house to bang his wife, and he didn't know. If he doesn't know about these things (particularly the first), what kind of oversight does he have? Ignorance is ignorance. He may have to go.

Like I said, 2 will be the logic of many in the public post-Paterno, and that might be enough to get him fired.