OT: WWC (Soccer) Thread

[oldude]

Offense always gets the headlines. How about the play of the defense?

1. 0 goals against in the group stage victories. (3-0 record)
2. Shut out Sweden 2-0. They won the bronze.
3. Beat Spain, France and England giving up only 3 goals combined.
4. Shut out the Dutch for the World Cup title.

Some shaky moments, but overall excellent play. Credit goalkeeper Allyssa Naeher (from Stratford, Conn) with big saves in the most important games. Defense won the matches, offense gets the praise.

Naeher is actually from Bridgeport, CT. She played her HS soccer in Trumbull, CT.

 

[JoePgh]

I think that those who are minimizing Rapinoe's contribution are just finding reasons not to give her credit for her play because they have a problem with either her politics or her personality.

Penalty kicks are not "gimme's"; other teams missed several of them during the tournament. I'm not sure that other players on the US team would have made any of them, and certainly would not have gone 3-for-3. She was chosen for that role for a reason. All of her kicks were critical to the US success -- Spain presumably would have won 1-0 with her two penalty kicks.

She also scored three goals in other ways, the same number as Lavelle.

 

[Aluminny69]

I think that those who are minimizing Rapinoe's contribution are just finding reasons not to give her credit for her play because they have a problem with either her politics or her personality.

Penalty kicks are not "gimme's"; other teams missed several of them during the tournament. I'm not sure that other players on the US team would have made any of them, and certainly would not have gone 3-for-3. She was chosen for that role for a reason. All of her kicks were critical to the US success -- Spain presumably would have won 1-0 with her two penalty kicks.

She also scored three goals in other ways, the same number as Lavelle.

You pointed out one of the many "problems" I have with soccer. In virtually every other sport, the person who is fouled takes the shot. In soccer, you can choose who takes the shot. Can you even imagine basketball, where the coach gets to choose who takes the foul shots? A designated foul shooter? In what universe is that considered to be "fair?"

 

[UcMiami]

Glad someone mentioned Heath as her speed on the right wing opened up the defenses time and again even if she did not pick up the assists/goals - she was a critical part of a record breaking offense.

I thought Dunn was a consistent defensive liability for the US early and wondered why she was getting the starts - she redeemed herself in the final in my eyes as she was solid.

Rose was a dynamic midfielder and her shot and when she chose to take it was great.

I was a little surprised that the silver ball went to Bronze but hadn't watched as much of England - White with her scoring and the threat she posed to defenses was the choice I would have made if the player was from that team.

I thought Rapinoe's service into the box was consistently great from run of play as well as corners and free kicks in the offensive third. And as was proved by the number of saved/missed PKs in the competition, the art of taking them and scoring is not to be dismissed lightly.

Also of note - Morgan scored five goals in the slaughter of Thailand and Lavelle two - they both scored once more in the following games. Rapinoe scored once in that game and five more times in the knockout games - twice each in the France and Spain games. And Morgan record all 3 of her assists in the Thailand game, Rapinoe had two assists in that game and 1 more in the other games. (Lavelle had zero assists.)

I thought another 'rising star' on the US team was Mewis with solid midfield play and 2 goals/three assists - she and Horan (2/2) filled the stat sheet from the midfield.

 

[oldude]

You pointed out one of the many "problems" I have with soccer. In virtually every other sport, the person who is fouled takes the shot. In soccer, you can choose who takes the shot. Can you even imagine basketball, where the coach gets to choose who takes the foul shots? A designated foul shooter? In what universe is that considered to be "fair?"

Same is true in rugby on penalties and American football on placekicks, although it would make football a lot more interesting if teams started to use 300 lb O-lineman to kick extra points.

 

[UcMiami]

Offense always gets the headlines. How about the play of the defense?

1. 0 goals against in the group stage victories. (3-0 record)
2. Shut out Sweden 2-0. They won the bronze.
3. Beat Spain, France and England giving up only 3 goals combined.
4. Shut out the Dutch for the World Cup title.

Some shaky moments, but overall excellent play. Credit goalkeeper Allyssa Naeher (from Stratford, Conn per her bio on USA website) with big saves in the most important games. Defense won the matches, offense gets the praise.

I will disagree only a little here - while defense is important, soccer is (thailand game excepted) a very low scoring sport and one where offensive chances, shots on goal, and goals are generally counted on a single hand - the ability to make those goals or to scuff them is generally the difference in a win and a loss/penalty shoot-out. Unlike basketball where teams often score 40+% of the time, soccer teams are good when they top 10% even when they get a touch inside the box.

 

[meyers7]

You pointed out one of the many "problems" I have with soccer. In virtually every other sport, the person who is fouled takes the shot. In soccer, you can choose who takes the shot. Can you even imagine basketball, where the coach gets to choose who takes the foul shots? A designated foul shooter? In what universe is that considered to be "fair?"

In the universe you live in. Basketball does the same thing. PK is more like a Tech Foul. They always pick the best for that.

It's not like there are 20-30 PKs a game like there are FTs. On average, less than 1 a game. Really, very different things.

 

[UcMiami]

One more thought - the lack of statistical information available on-line for the WWC is criminal! ESPN USWNT stats have not been updated with any of the WWC games, and I have given up trying to find player stats like shots/shots on goal, etc. Not sure if this is specific to the women's team or if the lesser popularity of soccer in the US vs. the rest of the world is to blame. But given the statistical black hole that exists for the WNBA and WCBB I suspect it is partly due to the general second class status of women's sports.

 

[Aluminny69]

Same is true in rugby on penalties and American football on placekicks, although it would make football a lot more interesting if teams started to use 300 lb O-lineman to kick extra points.

Lou Groza comes to mind. Boy am I old!!!

 

[meyers7]

I think that those who are minimizing Rapinoe's contribution are just finding reasons not to give her credit for her play because they have a problem with either her politics or her personality.

I don't know that all of us are "minimizing" her contributions. Just pointing out that others played better overall. Rapinoe has always been able to come up with the dramatics/clutch plays, even when she is not playing well. Against France she had a great game, other games she was good/ok/poor.

Penalty kicks are not "gimme's"; other teams missed several of them during the tournament. I'm not sure that other players on the US team would have made any of them, and certainly would not have gone 3-for-3.

I imagine there are 3-4 players that could have taken the PKs and made them all. But yes, she was picked to take them and yes, she is very good (might be the best on the team) at taking them.

 

[Aluminny69]

In the universe you live in. Basketball does the same thing. PK is more like a Tech Foul. They always pick the best for that.

It's not like there are 20-30 PKs a game like there are FTs. On average, less than 1 a game. Really, very different things.

That's a fair point. But again, a technical foul shot is one or two points out of an average of 80 points. A Penalty Kick is one goal out of a average of one goal per game.

I think of the penalty shot in Hockey. If a player is on a breakaway, and is tripped from behind, he is awarded a penalty shot He has to take the shot. All that seems fair to me. On the soccer play, the U.S. was awarded a Penalty kick because there was a foul in the penalty box. Morgan had no chance at a shot on goal, regardless of the penalty. Yes, the Dutch defended made a dangerous play, so give her a yellow card. There was nothing "fair" about the whole play, at least that how it seems to me. Just because "that's the way it is" doesn't make it right.

 

[stamfordhusky]

Naeher is actually from Bridgeport, CT. She played her HS soccer in Trumbull, CT.

Naeher grew up in Stratford. At some point after college, either she or her parents moved to Bridgeport.

 

[stamfordhusky]

I think that those who are minimizing Rapinoe's contribution are just finding reasons not to give her credit for her play because they have a problem with either her politics or her personality.

For the most part, I think that is incorrect. Those who don't think Rapinoe should have won the Golden Ball focus on her lack of defense and lack of speed in putting pressure on the defense. As for the PK's, yes she is good at it. But it is likely Alex Morgan would also have made all three. The players who drew the PK's (Morgan twice and Heath) deserve most of the credit for those goals. It is tougher to draw a PK than to make one.

 

[JordyG]

I don't know that all of us are "minimizing" her contributions. Just pointing out that others played better overall. Rapinoe has always been able to come up with the dramatics/clutch plays, even when she is not playing well. Against France she had a great game, other games she was good/ok/poor.


I imagine there are 3-4 players that could have taken the PKs and made them all. But yes, she was picked to take them and yes, she is very good (might be the best on the team) at taking them.

I mostly agree. Where I differ is in the quote "3-4 could have taken the PK's and made them all". The reason Rapinoe takes them is because the coach believes she is the best at making them, and for several reasons. One of them is the steeliness that woman plays with. I've seen Messi miss PK's, and in soccer where goals are precious Rapinoe's flint eyed PK kicks are as much a sure thing as the US has. In my opinion there is maybe 1 or 2 that could have made them all on the US side and no more. I still say the World Cup should be 2 years before the Olympics..

 

[meyers7]

That's a fair point. But again, a technical foul shot is one or two points out of an average of 80 points. A Penalty Kick is one goal out of a average of one goal per game.

Exactly, hence why you would want / and it's only fair to have your best PK taker taking the PK. (and actually there were 2.81 gpg this WC)

I think of the penalty shot in Hockey. If a player is on a breakaway, and is tripped from behind, he is awarded a penalty shot He has to take the shot. All that seems fair to me. On the soccer play, the U.S. was awarded a Penalty kick because there was a foul in the penalty box. Morgan had no chance at a shot on goal, regardless of the penalty. Yes, the Dutch defended made a dangerous play, so give her a yellow card. There was nothing "fair" about the whole play, at least that how it seems to me. Just because "that's the way it is" doesn't make it right.

It's actually very fair. The reason they give PK's for fouls in the PA is to try to limit the amount of fouling and increase the amount of scoring. If they didn't give PKs for fouls in the PA, all defenders would foul if the offensive player had even a half a chance of getting a shot off.

Also Dutch player didn't make a "dangerous play" she actually kicked her.

And more also, why does the hockey player get a penalty shot for getting tripped? Hockey players can smash other players into the board and even fight without a penalty shot being awarded. Doesn't seem very fair to me.

 

[stamfordhusky]

On the soccer play, the U.S. was awarded a Penalty kick because there was a foul in the penalty box. Morgan had no chance at a shot on goal, regardless of the penalty. Yes, the Dutch defended made a dangerous play, so give her a yellow card. There was nothing "fair" about the whole play, at least that how it seems to me. Just because "that's the way it is" doesn't make it right.

That is what the rules (LOTG) require. On an obvious reckless foul such as that one - where Morgan was cleated in the shouler - the ref does not have the option to just give a yellow card but no PK. Had there been no contact, it would have been possible to call the defender for "playing in a dangerous manner" and merely award an indirect free kick. But once there was contact in such a reckless fashion, the rules mandate a PK. The defender knew the rule very well and just played really stupidly. So it's more the "that's the way it is'. It is a rule - just like awarding two FT's in basketball when a player is fouled on a shot she likely wouldn't have made.

 

[stamfordhusky]

The key to the U.S. offense, without doubt, was Alex Morgan. She scored six goals in the run of play, plus she had three assists plus she drew two PK's. Rapinoe had three goals in the run of play plus three assists and drew no PK's. Plus Morgan drew significantly more attention from the opposition defense.

 

[meyers7]

I mostly agree. Where I differ is in the quote "3-4 could have taken the PK's and made them all". The reason Rapinoe takes them is because the coach believes she is the best at making them, and for several reasons. One of them is the steeliness that woman plays with. I've seen Messi miss PK's, and in soccer where goals are precious Rapinoe's flint eyed PK kicks are as much a sure thing as the US has. In my opinion there is maybe 1 or 2 that could have made them all on the US side and no more. I still say the World Cup should be 2 years before the Olympics..

We'll disagree then. I'd trust Lloyd, Morgan, Horan, Heath, probably O'Hara. And if you're relying on "steeliness", I'd take Lloyd over Rapinoe in a heart beat.

You can certainly say she's considered the best, and you should go with your best, but that doesn't mean others couldn't do it also. Heck Ellis has to pick 5 for KFTM, so you know she's got 4 others in mind after Rapinoe.

I imagine the reason WWC doesn't go 2 years from Olympics is because the MWC is then. FIFA is not going to do that.

 

[LoTrader]

I watched Megan Rapinoe play in nearly every home game at University of Portland. She was a starter from day 1 of her freshman year, on a perennial Top 10 Women's College Team. She has always been amazing, and, remains so to this day. Whether or not she won any awards during the world cup is immaterial to me. I don't believe USA would have won the world cup without her play.

 

[BigBird]

Same is true in rugby on penalties and American football on placekicks, although it would make football a lot more interesting if teams started to use 300 lb O-lineman to kick extra points.

As in Lou “the toe” Groza.

 

[BigBird]

...In soccer, you can choose who takes the shot. Can you even imagine basketball, where the coach gets to choose who takes the foul shots? A designated foul shooter? In what universe is that considered to be "fair?"

If the rules apply to both sides, it’s fair. It might not be best for the game, I’ll admit, but it is fair if nothing else.

 

[triaddukefan]

Sorry, Olympics next year. Women's Olympics is almost as big as the World Cup. (almost). You'll have to hear plenty about it.

It will be overshadowed by plenty of other sports though

 

[John]

Naeher grew up in Stratford. At some point after college, either she or her parents moved to Bridgeport.

she also played for South Central Premier - at one time a very good premier club in CT that has since unfortunately degraded quality-wise.

 

[UcMiami]

Exactly, hence why you would want / and it's only fair to have your best PK taker taking the PK. (and actually there were 2.81 gpg this WC)

That 2.81 gpg works out to 1.4 goals per side which rounds down to 1.

The key to the U.S. offense, without doubt, was Alex Morgan. She scored six goals in the run of play, plus she had three assists plus she drew two PK's. Rapinoe had three goals in the run of play plus three assists and drew no PK's. Plus Morgan drew significantly more attention from the opposition defense.

As I mentioned above, Morgan scored five of her six goals and all of her assists in the Thailand game which was less competitive than a typical practice session (USA would have won 5-0 had Morgan been a complete zero in that game.) Rapinoe scored one goal and had two assists in that game. So in the other actually competitive games the scoring break down was:
Rapinoe - 5 goals - 2 from run of play, 1 assist.
Lloyd - 2 goals - zero assists
Morgan - 1 goal and zero assists, 1 PK drawn
Lavelle - 1 goal and zero assists, 1 PK drawn
Horan - 1 goal, 1 assist
Ertz - 1 goal
Press - 1 goal
Andersson - 1 goal (Sweden own goal)
Davidson - 2 assists
Mewis - 2 assist
Heath - 1 assist, PK drawn, deflected 'goal' award as own goal to Andersson.
O'hara - 1 assist

USA scored 50% of their record number of goals in that first game 13 - they scored 13 in the other 6 games, 5 2 goal games and 1 3 goal game. That first game was the equivalent of a 100 point win in basketball - no contest. While the stats count in the WWC totals, it is a bit misleading. White for England scored six goals in much more competitive games - she scored 6 of England's 13 goals = 46%, Morgan and Rapinoe each scored 23% of the US goals. Rapinoe scored 63% of the USA knockout round goals.

 

[meyers7]

I watched Megan Rapinoe play in nearly every home game at University of Portland. She was a starter from day 1 of her freshman year, on a perennial Top 10 Women's College Team. She has always been amazing, and, remains so to this day. Whether or not she won any awards during the world cup is immaterial to me. I don't believe USA would have won the world cup without her play.

Have to disagree with you here. I think they could have dropped (injured) any single player and still won. Maybe Ertz. Maybe Morgan.

They played very well without Rapinoe against England.