OT: WWC (Soccer) Thread

[Plebe]

“There is no rationale that the women should not get paid what the men get paid,” Cuomo said, per assembled media. “...We say to the U.S. Soccer league and we say to FIFA, if you don’t pay women what you pay men, then you have no business in the state of New York.”

"U.S. Soccer league"? Does he mean the federation? Huge difference between USA Soccer and the U.S.-based (professional) leagues like MLS/NWSL.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

And Andrew Cuomo may have ended Women's Soccer in New York. I don't know how he will enforce this law.

In a press conference held before the celebratory ticker-tape parade for the U.S. women's national team kicked off in lower Manhattan, New York governor Andrew Cuomo took a stand for equal pay, signing the new "Equal Pay for Equal Work" legislation into law on the streets of New York City.

“There is no rationale that the women should not get paid what the men get paid,” Cuomo said, per assembled media. “...We say to the U.S. Soccer league and we say to FIFA, if you don’t pay women what you pay men, then you have no business in the state of New York.”

Never let the facts intrude when you have a crowd lusting for your demagoguery.

 

[stamfordhusky]

And Andrew Cuomo may have ended Women's Soccer in New York. I don't know how he will enforce this law.

In a press conference held before the celebratory ticker-tape parade for the U.S. women's national team kicked off in lower Manhattan, New York governor Andrew Cuomo took a stand for equal pay, signing the new "Equal Pay for Equal Work" legislation into law on the streets of New York City.

“There is no rationale that the women should not get paid what the men get paid,” Cuomo said, per assembled media. “...We say to the U.S. Soccer league and we say to FIFA, if you don’t pay women what you pay men, then you have no business in the state of New York.”

Taking this one step further, I assume this means Cuomo will demand that members of the NY Liberty get as much per game as the Knicks. And that women softball players receive the same pay as the NY Yankees. What a fool!

 

[UcMiami]

There are two very different questions at play in the 'equal pay' discussions:
1. Federal Government/semi-government organizations like the Olympic and USNT groups in each sport.
2. Private business associations that create leagues, pay players, and hold competitions.

And there is another group of entities that receive government funding and or concessions though are otherwise private or state level entities where the lines are somewhat blurred (this includes colleges, leagues that benefit from antitrust legislation and or tax breaks.)

The idea that a private entity that produces a gender specific product and has very different compensation formulas needs to match what another private entity producing the other gender product and has very different economics is hard to equate and legislate into an 'equality' formula.

The idea that a government recognized entity needs to balance compensation across gender is much more of a legitimate concern. This is in effect what title IX legislated based on an influx of federal funds into the colleges.

What I thought was the basic issue with the women's soccer team relates to the salaries paid to the athletes on that team vs. the salaries paid to the men's team. It was not specific to the WC bonus structure which is another issue entirely, but the yearly pay they receive from the US Soccer Federation which is the SAME organization that pays the men's team using different pay structures for basically equivalent schedules and vastly different results.

To expect the NBA and the WNBA to pay players equally is difficult to justify when the revenue is so disparate and they are privately owned and operated entities. To expect the US national team associations to use vastly different pay structures based on gender is problematic to me and many others. For example, do the women gymnasts get paid three times as much as the men because they are more popular more successful and get better ratings for their competitions?

 

[Aluminny69]

This is only speculation. If there is not enough money to pay the women as much as the men, the only other option is to pay the men less. But at some price point the men may not be willing to risk injury just to play for the National team. They can make many times more money elsewhere. ( Maybe even playing for another country.) There are many factors involved. I wish they would be more specific in what equal pay they want. I'm sure it is spelled out in their law suit.

 

[meyers7]

What I thought was the basic issue with the women's soccer team relates to the salaries paid to the athletes on that team vs. the salaries paid to the men's team. It was not specific to the WC bonus structure which is another issue entirely, but the yearly pay they receive from the US Soccer Federation which is the SAME organization that pays the men's team using different pay structures for basically equivalent schedules and vastly different results.

And here's where the big problem is. The MNT does not get "salaries" while the WNT (24 players) do get "salaries". I beleive the MNT does get more money for being "in camp", on "game day roster", "winning matches", etc. there's a lot of different things they get paid for (per diems might be different too). HOWEVER, the 24 women contracted for the WNT player pool do get a salary ranging from around $80,000 - $100,000.

As I posted in another thread, there were 4 WNT members (Sauerbrunn, O'Hara, Mewes, and ??) who were listed on the USSF's tax report that all made over $245,000 from USSF. There were no MNT players on that list.

Not so sure the women would be willing to give up their "salaries" in order to get the same "stipends" the men get.

And yes, the WC bonuses (from FIFA) are a completely different animal.

 

[UcMiami]

And here's where the big problem is. The MNT does not get "salaries" while the WNT (24 players) do get "salaries". I beleive the MNT does get more money for being "in camp", on "game day roster", "winning matches", etc. there's a lot of different things they get paid for (per diems might be different too). HOWEVER, the 24 women contracted for the WNT player pool do get a salary ranging from around $80,000 - $100,000.

As I posted in another thread, there were 4 WNT members (Sauerbrunn, O'Hara, Mewes, and ??) who were listed on the USSF's tax report that all made over $245,000 from USSF. There were no MNT players on that list.

Not so sure the women would be willing to give up their "salaries" in order to get the same "stipends" the men get.

And yes, the WC bonuses (from FIFA) are a completely different animal.

Hadn't realized that the men did not receive any 'salary', but both men and women are contracted for 20 international friendlies and even with their salary the compensation for the women is unequal - in the unlikely event that the men lose every one of those friendlies while the women win every one of them, the women with their salaries and match bonuses would get $99k while the men would get $100k. Every match the men actually win increases the disparity to a maximum average of $263k to that $99k if both teams won all twenty matches. Unlikely for the men but quite likely for the women.

These numbers are just related to the contracted 20 friendlies and do not include any international competitions. The per diem compensation for the men is 25% higher and compensation for competitions is also uneven, not even looking at the FIFA bonus structure just the USSF compensation. (The US paid $75k bonus for this WC win, the men would receive $400k should they ever win.) The FIFA bonus per team for the WC win in 2015 was $2M for women and $35M for men in 2014, but that is a separate issue and has likely more justification based on TV contracts worldwide.

Source: The difference between what the US men's and women's soccer players make is shocking

 

[Aluminny69]

A new wrinkle...

U.S. women's team snub of Christian player roils soccer

 

[meyers7]

Hadn't realized that the men did not receive any 'salary', but both men and women are contracted for 20 international friendlies and even with their salary the compensation for the women is unequal - in the unlikely event that the men lose every one of those friendlies while the women win every one of them, the women with their salaries and match bonuses would get $99k while the men would get $100k. Every match the men actually win increases the disparity to a maximum average of $263k to that $99k if both teams won all twenty matches. Unlikely for the men but quite likely for the women.

These numbers are just related to the contracted 20 friendlies and do not include any international competitions. The per diem compensation for the men is 25% higher and compensation for competitions is also uneven, not even looking at the FIFA bonus structure just the USSF compensation. (The US paid $75k bonus for this WC win, the men would receive $400k should they ever win.) The FIFA bonus per team for the WC win in 2015 was $2M for women and $35M for men in 2014, but that is a separate issue and has likely more justification based on TV contracts worldwide.

Source: The difference between what the US men's and women's soccer players make is shocking

I don't believe that is accurate. The women's salaries range from $80K to a bit over $100K. (that might be an old article). So some of the players would be over the $99K without even playing a game. And as I stated the USSF listed 4 players that made in excess of $245K. So that $99K number is pretty out to lunch.

Also I don't think the MNT is contracted for 20 Friendlies. Since 2010, they've been between 6-11 Friendlies a year. And if the men played 20 matches and the women played 20 matches in a calendar year, the income to USSF for the men would be much greater than for the women. Don't think that article is very accurate.

When you compare WC years (when the men make the WC) the men's team almost doubles the income of the women. Of course the people pushing for equal pay never compare like that. They will take the WWC year vs an off year for the men. Actually I might be wrong, comparing the WC years it might be more. I think it was comparing a 4 year cycle that the MNT doubled the WNT income.

 

[meyers7]

A new wrinkle...

U.S. women's team snub of Christian player roils soccer

That's old news. And yes she is one of the better (best) FB's in the NWSL and probably should have been on the team. Especially since the WNT had been trying numerous players at FB and finally just settled on using CB's out of position (Sonnet and Davidson) for depth. But the WNT has always been a "old girls club" and if you cross them, you're gone. They drove out their last 2 coaches before Ellis.

 

[UcMiami]

A new wrinkle...

U.S. women's team snub of Christian player roils soccer

Not an unbiased publication owned by the Unification movement (Sun Myung Moon.)
All US national teams take athletes availability when called up very seriously - has happened a few times in the women's basketball team that a player not available for one call-up is dropped from future consideration. Cappie Pondexter I think declined because she wanted to be at NY Fashion week and was never asked again.

 

[Bigboote]

That's old news. And yes she is one of the better (best) FB's in the NWSL and probably should have been on the team. Especially since the WNT had been trying numerous players at FB and finally just settled on using CB's out of position (Sonnet and Davidson) for depth. But the WNT has always been a "old girls club" and if you cross them, you're gone. They drove out their last 2 coaches before Ellis.

There's certainly an old girls' club. But you have to consider team chemistry, too. Even before the rainbow jerseys, Hinkle had only had a handful of caps, meaning she wasn't indispensable before that. I don't think it would be positive for camaraderie to have a publicly vocal anti-gay player on a team with a significant number of established gay players.

 

[Biff]

O.K. We're long past Soccer discussions and drifting into the mud. To avoid a someone getting a red flag, time to close.