Words About KO From Ray

[Milo65]

For the record, I posted this on another thread.

JC on KO:

"I was still saddened by what happened. Kevin (Ollie) is my guy. But I know he'll bounce back. Like everything in life, it's difficult."

Thanks, like I said in my post, I didn’t see any comments, it didn’t mean Jim didn’t.

 

[The Funster]

What's funny is, if KO detractors had been more magnanimous about giving credit for his first two years, a lot more people would have been on board with the KO is failing movement. But by saying that success was largely due to JC, they took away from the impact of all their other (valid) points.

But it is difficult to logically separate the two. KO coached his ass off in March of 2014 and then seemingly fell off a cliff. There seems to be no other possibilities other than a) He did it on the back of JC or b) there was some kind of personal life situation that knocked him off his game.

Not being an insider and not knowing what may have gone on behind the scenes I watched the team that lost the first two games of the previous season and was appalled at what I saw. It was a poorly constructed roster that looked totally dysfunctional. It wasn't that they lost, it was how they looked while losing. I think the Gilbert and Larrier injuries only hid what was really going on: the program was a mess.

Now, looking at that, and comparing it to the Huskies charging to the title in 2014, it is not a poor conclusion to have that KO did win with JC players, IMO.

 

[David 76]

No one was calling for his head for six years.

Stop whining.

Whining? No. I was wrong about Ollie. Blind to his faults for too long.
But there are still some that led the dump Ollie movement that I wouldn't want to be associated with.

 

[intlzncster]

But it is difficult to logically separate the two. KO coached his ass off in March of 2014 and then seemingly fell off a cliff. There seems to be no other possibilities other than a) He did it on the back of JC or b) there was some kind of personal life situation that knocked him off his game.

The other possibility, which I think is probably a good part of it, is that: with the success of the 2014 NC, KO thought he knew it all and this coaching thing was easy. No longer looked to JC for counsel. His amazing bench of former HCs was eventually gutted, and he went on his own. Probably felt the recruiting floodgates would open up as well. Didn't look to grow or seek out new strategies. Coached with blinders on...etc etc

 

[MuchoDogYears]

What Ray Allen said in defending KO's work effort is from what he knew of KO back in their playing days at UConn and in the NBA.

Ray Allen wasn't at every practice for the past 6 years. Wasn't at every game. Wasn't around the program day in and day out.

His opinion is simply that of a good friend. The OP was absolutely wrong to give credence to Ray's uninformed opinion as supporting argument that KO worked hard. Honestly, your average UConn season ticket holder is much more knowledgable about KO's work ethic than Ray is.

 

[Huskybass]

I think the recruiting improved - agree with Chief on that one. I think there was some player development, although there could have been more if Onuorah had sat. Once Gilbert went down they had significantly less talent than last year and so it was a bit of an accomplishment to get a similar record -- performance:talent ratio was better although still not nearly as good as Hurley's. Those are the three major ways you assess a head coach, and all improved versus the prior year. It looked like we weren't going to get many transfers or de-commits if KO had stayed on, so player retention was on track to improve too.

I think KO got help from JC, Blaney, Hobbs, etc his first few years, and demonstrated some significant strengths that complemented theirs. Then he lost the support of those ex-head coaches, and demonstrated a number of deficiencies in his own capabilities. He was slow to learn about his own weaknesses and figure out how to fix them, but he seemed to be making progress over the last year.

Recruiting may have improved a bit. Player development did not. Results relative to talent didn't improve a bit. You dont play Columbia, an 8-17 team, to a draw after 40 minutes if you are getting proper production out of Adams, Vital, Larrier, Carlton, etc. Ditto for Monmouth. Those are teams that are lucky to have ANY UConn caliber talent, yet we had to go to OT at home against both of them.

If you are being honest with yourself you will admit that 2014 was still skewing your assessment of the head coach's performance in 2017-18.

 

[Ukonnfan]

Nailed it Ray.

 

[pj]

Recruiting may have improved a bit. Player development did not. Results relative to talent didn't improve a bit. You dont play Columbia, an 8-17 team, to a draw after 40 minutes if you are getting proper production out of Adams, Vital, Larrier, Carlton, etc. Ditto for Monmouth. Those are teams that are lucky to have ANY UConn caliber talent, yet we had to go to OT at home against both of them.

If you are being honest with yourself you will admit that 2014 was still skewing your assessment of the head coach's performance in 2017-18.

I was comparing 2017-18 to 2016-17. From the earlier team we lost Rodney Purvis (now an NBA player), Kentan Facey (a senior PF who had come on), Amida Brimah (7' rim protector), Vance Jackson (top 100 recruit, 8 pts 4 rbd per game), Steve Enoch (top 100), Juwan Durham (top 50). We replaced them with Antwoine Anderson, Josh Carlton, Tyler Polley, Mamadou Diarra (marginal top 100, but serious injuries), Isaiah Whaley, Eric Cobb, David Onuorah, Kwintin Williams. Basically 6 top 100 players, 3 of them seniors, replaced by 8 players none of whom rated in the top 100 (subtracting a few spots for Mamadou's injuries) and apart from Anderson and Onuorah, all in their first year of college ball. That is a huge drop in both talent and experience.

Yet with this vastly inferior talent and inexperience, the record was very similar.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Recruiting may have improved a bit. Player development did not. Results relative to talent didn't improve a bit. You dont play Columbia, an 8-17 team, to a draw after 40 minutes if you are getting proper production out of Adams, Vital, Larrier, Carlton, etc. Ditto for Monmouth. Those are teams that are lucky to have ANY UConn caliber talent, yet we had to go to OT at home against both of them.

If you are being honest with yourself you will admit that 2014 was still skewing your assessment of the head coach's performance in 2017-18.

He seemed aimless, with a deer in the headlights look. I got the impression that he threw together lineups and made in game roster moves based on nothing more logical than a magic 8 ball. “Maybe this lineup will work?” No. “Ok, this one”. Each as random and bizarre as the last. He started DO for weeks while we all could see he had better players. It was mind boggling. Never mind designing a roster or plan based on opponents strengths and weaknesses, he couldn’t figure out who to play against five folding chairs.

Last year he had six-seven healthy guys, and I think that helped him. He couldn’t decide much of anything. There were no real decisions to be made. As a result, they pulled together and won a few games. He also had Purvis as an on court leader who didn’t suffer lazy teammates.

Why did he deteriorate? I have no idea. Was he trying his hardest? I sure hope not. If those were the best decisions he’s capable of making, then I wouldn’t let him be a crossing guard, let alone coach a D1 team. He seemed distracted. I think he needs a re-set elsewhere to get his Spartacus together. I hope he does.

 

[ctchamps]

I agree on diverse opinions. And I learned from people who were ahead of me on the dump Ollie issue. There are others who equate cynicism with intelligence and like a broken clock they will occasionally be right. That's all.

Bad language on my part. I know you and your mindset.

The only disagreement I had was over who should move on. Even as I inject my personal feelings I’d override that feeling when it comes to censorship. I know your not advocating censorship but others in this thread are insisting people move on or are ridiculing those who don’t now that KO is gone.

Some of those same people have been screaming for two years so I’ll support those on the other side for a while. I don’t believe in indulging tantrums or bullies.

 

[Javjudah]

While I appreciate a good joke, KO didn't exactly Peter-Principle his way into anything. He didn't fail his way to the top. Succeeded beyond expectations for years. Unfortunately, he was allowed to jump several rungs on the ladder (taking the escalator) without paying the price and putting in the time. Still managed the highest level of success, but was unable to sustain it.

Perhaps KO could have been more permanently successful if he had started on the bottom rung of the HC ladder, as Hurley has done.

KO didn't start from a good situation. He was coaching a team that was banned from the tournament. Coach Calhoun won 19 games his final season. Oriaki, Roscoe Smith, Bradley transferred... Lamb and Drummond turned pro... Napier was not good his sophomore season, Boatright was ok, Daniels and Giffey was in Coach Calhoun pig pen... Olander, Wolfe... who are we kidding. There was not ONE player that Coach Calhoun left that was on any draft board or any scouts radar. A former coach of Napier said that Napier was a knuckle head/hot head and Wouldn't listen to anyone. Ollie was able to guide him and Napier has stated his success is because of Ollie.

 

[superjohn]

The other possibility, which I think is probably a good part of it, is that: with the success of the 2014 NC, KO thought he knew it all and this coaching thing was easy. No longer looked to JC for counsel. His amazing bench of former HCs was eventually gutted, and he went on his own. Probably felt the recruiting floodgates would open up as well. Didn't look to grow or seek out new strategies. Coached with blinders on...etc etc

It's the single thing that angered me the most. Not even taking into account the knowledge and help he was missing out on, the entire reason he got the job was because of Calhoun and he made him no longer feel wanted or welcome around the thing he built.

I said let's not rehash it but this is the truth and too many people claim it isn't.

 

[intlzncster]

A former coach of Napier said that Napier was a knuckle head/hot head and Wouldn't listen to anyone. Ollie was able to guide him and Napier has stated his success is because of Ollie.

Unfortunately, he couldn't sustain that. If he had more experience, perhaps he could have.

NBA assistant is a perfect role for him. Hopefully he gets the opportunity.

 

[KemBaller]

I think he really tried this season. Too little too late though

Doesn't the effort prove that he was really just in over his head though?

 

[The Funster]

Doesn't the effort prove that he was really just in over his head though?

This was his 6th season. He dug a hole too deep to get of out is a better metaphor, IMO.

Look at the great coaches. They win their first championship and they burn to win their 2nd. If they are lucky enough to do that they want the 3rd and so on. It looked like Ollie won and that was enough.

 

[Javjudah]

Unfortunately, he couldn't sustain that. If he had more experience, perhaps he could have.

NBA assistant is a perfect role for him. Hopefully he gets the opportunity.

Rhode Island is like a mid major. Look at Uconn non schedule compare to Rhode Island. We played the likes of Michigan State, Oregon, Syracuse, Arkansas, Arizona, Auburn, Villanova... Who did Rhode Island played? overrated, I hope Hurley is successful but he's not GOLD nor is he Houdini. He better have UCONN in a superior position after his second season or else things can spiral out of control real quick.

 

[Travelman6]

There is working hard, (and maybe Ollie worked hard, not here to discuss that), and there is working smart.

Many successful people will tell you working smart is more important and it was not evident that Ollie did a good job directing his energy towards things that required energy. You can work very hard but it means little if that hard work is not used efficiently. Combine the hard work with working smart.

 

[jibsey]

What Ray Allen said in defending KO's work effort is from what he knew of KO back in their playing days at UConn and in the NBA.

Ray Allen wasn't at every practice for the past 6 years. Wasn't at every game. Wasn't around the program day in and day out.

His opinion is simply that of a good friend. The OP was absolutely wrong to give credence to Ray's uninformed opinion as supporting argument that KO worked hard. Honestly, your average UConn season ticket holder is much more knowledgable about KO's work ethic than Ray is.

No. How do the fans know what is going on 24/7 in that environment? As a close friend who is in at least phone contact with KO, Ray could easily have an insight into all the tasks KO had to do from recruiting to practices that we could never have. As I said, we will need to hear from his assistant coaches which is not likely to happen.

 

[champs99and04]

You're also someone who would still give a lifetime contract to KO, that's insane to most of us.

When I said that I misspoke and that is because I'd have preferred giving him three lifetime contracts. We can leave that seat empty when he dies for all I care.

I liked Kevin Ollie. I thought it was really cool when he won the championship in 2014. I thought the malpractice he committed on the program after that was less cool, but he was still Kevin Ollie and as a consumer that was enough for me. There's really no counter-argument to satisfaction.

Dan Hurley is just a guy. A random guy. I have no connection to him and his success means nothing to me. I'm sure that as time goes on I'll grow progressively fond of him, but that's only because I tend to feel a deeper connection with people who have been in my life for more than two weeks.

But that's just the thing. I'm probably going to like him no matter what. It's kind of like how some of the most passionate fans root for downtrodden franchises. By your own admission, you take the opposite approach. You like him now and if he doesn't win you'll dislike him or at least want him gone. That's fine. I don't think either method is better than the other. My opinion is only insane, though, to those who don't step back and think about it.

And look, I'm not trying to bombard you with parallels to real life relationships. This is entertainment and when your team sucks it tends to be less entertaining. That's reason enough for wanting a new coach and it's the reason I, myself, am hardly devastated by the change in coaches. I was kind of ready for it to be over, too, if not this off-season than the one after. I just never understood how that feeling could boil into the resentment expressed by this board. It seemed to belie the purpose of rooting for somebody in the first place.

 

[KemBaller]

This was his 6th season. He dug a hole too deep to get of out is a better metaphor, IMO.

Look at the great coaches. They win their first championship and they burn to win their 2nd. If they are lucky enough to do that they want the 3rd and so on. It looked like Ollie won and that was enough.

Problem with that analogy was that the team was still digging that hole this season, not trying to climb out.

 

[tentoes4rings]

The other possibility, which I think is probably a good part of it, is that: with the success of the 2014 NC, KO thought he knew it all and this coaching thing was easy. No longer looked to JC for counsel. His amazing bench of former HCs was eventually gutted, and he went on his own. Probably felt the recruiting floodgates would open up as well. Didn't look to grow or seek out new strategies. Coached with blinders on...etc etc

I think this is right on the money. In some ways, I think winning a national championship in his second year was the worst thing that could have happened to KO. He got his first long term contract of his life, probably started living it up a bit too much and seems to have thought he was now at the level of K, Calipari, Izzo etc and recruits would be easy to get without realizing all the years they spent grinding to get to where they were, building relationships with AAU programs etc. I think he took the escalator when he should have taken the stairs.

 

[HooperScooper]

He got his first long term contract of his life, probably started living it up a bit too much and seems to have thought he was now at the level of K, Calipari, Izzo etc and recruits would be easy to get without realizing all the years they spent grinding to get to where they were, building relationships with AAU programs etc. I think he took the escalator when he should have taken the stairs.

Not really. He was making as much in the NBA as he did coaching back as far as 2003. Of course he had a young family at that time so maybe he wasn't living as large back then.

On July 17, 2003, Ollie signed a five-year, $15 million deal with the Cleveland Cavaliers. After playing his first six years in the league without a guaranteed contract and playing for nine different teams over that span, Ollie finally had some security. But he wasn't about to rest on his laurels.

UCONN MEN'S BASKETBALL: Kevin Ollie as head coach no surprise to former Cavs GM Jim Paxson

 

[tentoes4rings]

Not really. He was making as much in the NBA as he did coaching back as far as 2003. Of course he had a young family at that time so maybe he wasn't living as large back then.

On July 17, 2003, Ollie signed a five-year, $15 million deal with the Cleveland Cavaliers. After playing his first six years in the league without a guaranteed contract and playing for nine different teams over that span, Ollie finally had some security. But he wasn't about to rest on his laurels.

UCONN MEN'S BASKETBALL: Kevin Ollie as head coach no surprise to former Cavs GM Jim Paxson

Thanks for the clarification, I thought the Cleveland deal was only for 3 years. Anyway, whatever went wrong saddens me, as KO was my favorite UConn point guard. It’s time to move on to Danny Hurley and wish KO the absolute best in his future.