Words About KO From Ray

[noeynox]

Let's hope that Hurley turns things around. You're whining made me cringe almost as much as these past seasons. There is nothing you have done that makes me believe you won't do the same if Hurley flounders.

That's actually commendable. It means the only thing that matters are results, and personal feelings get set aside.

 

[pj]

KO was learning on the job and improving as a coach I think, but no telling how long it would have taken him to reach his ceiling as a head coach, or how good that ceiling would have been. Hurley definitely seems an upgrade. Still, hope KO learned some lessons and succeeds if he ever gives college head coaching a second try.

 

[intlzncster]

I don’t think that KO got lazy, he obviously had some issues finding the right players for the system he wanted to play. When Miller was let go, Jim Calhoun had some comments that supported Miller. So far, I’ve only seen comments from Jim in support of Hurley or maybe I missed it. I’ve not seen or heard his comments about supporting KO, which if true, tells me all I need to know.

For the record, I posted this on another thread.

JC on KO:

"I was still saddened by what happened. Kevin (Ollie) is my guy. But I know he'll bounce back. Like everything in life, it's difficult."

 

[intlzncster]

To the OP, these positions are meat grinders. Leadership is never easy and being in the public eye like these positions are just magnifies the challenges. I'm by no means making excuses for KO. You have to perform as the HC of a UCONN basketball program. If you don't, you need to step aside or understand you will be pushed aside. I'm simply saying that KO may be a very good person and a very capable basketball guy. He may simply not have been ready or not a good fit as the HC of a program such as UCONN.

The lack of empathy from many is a bit of a head scratcher for me. I know I don't always succeed as a leader. I'm very grateful for the fact that when I don't perform particularly well most of the media in the northeast isn't pointing their finger at me.

Let's hope the guy gets back on his feet and back into a basketball setting that is enriching for him.

I liked your post and agree with a number of the sentiments, but when you are paying a guy $3m per year to steward a top shelf public program, empathy only goes so far (rightly so). It's a very put up or shut up occupation. That's why the remuneration and benefits are so great.

I'm empathetic to KO failing, but at the end of the day, he wasn't ready.

 

[intlzncster]

Do people here ever waver in their commitment to their job? My guess is yes, otherwise the traffic on this board wouldn't be what it is.

Again, these guys are paid egregiously well, and are afforded benefits most of us dream about, so they are held to a standard where complacency and wavering in commitment is not an option. It's a public, high profile job which requires complete and total commitment of the mind, body and soul. JC damn near killed himself for the job.

 

[intlzncster]

A lot of people would kill to be Peter-Principled into a multi-million-dollar salary.

He is no victim.

While I appreciate a good joke, KO didn't exactly Peter-Principle his way into anything. He didn't fail his way to the top. Succeeded beyond expectations for years. Unfortunately, he was allowed to jump several rungs on the ladder (taking the escalator) without paying the price and putting in the time. Still managed the highest level of success, but was unable to sustain it.

Perhaps KO could have been more permanently successful if he had started on the bottom rung of the HC ladder, as Hurley has done.

 

[intlzncster]

KO deserves credit for what he accomplished his first two seasons, including a National Championship.

The next 4 seasons as a whole were basically a disaster. UConn played in a TOTAL of 3 postseason games over that 4 year period, and that includes the NIT.

I am happy to give KO credit for not only the National Championship season, but also his initial 20 win season. Unfortunately, there wasn't much to be optimistic about after 2014 and that's why the Ollie defenders get whalloped in every one of these debates.

What's funny is, if KO detractors had been more magnanimous about giving credit for his first two years, a lot more people would have been on board with the KO is failing movement. But by saying that success was largely due to JC, they took away from the impact of all their other (valid) points.

 

[David 76]

I have to disagree with you on this one. We should be able to handle opposing viewpoints. And I don't believe anyone should dictate censorship.

I agree on diverse opinions. And I learned from people who were ahead of me on the dump Ollie issue. There are others who equate cynicism with intelligence and like a broken clock they will occasionally be right. That's all.

 

[BlueDogs]

To the OP, these positions are meat grinders. Leadership is never easy and being in the public eye like these positions are just magnifies the challenges. I'm by no means making excuses for KO. You have to perform as the HC of a UCONN basketball program. If you don't, you need to step aside or understand you will be pushed aside. I'm simply saying that KO may be a very good person and a very capable basketball guy. He may simply not have been ready or not a good fit as the HC of a program such as UCONN.

The lack of empathy from many is a bit of a head scratcher for me. I know I don't always succeed as a leader. I'm very grateful for the fact that when I don't perform particularly well most of the media in the northeast isn't pointing their finger at me.

Let's hope the guy gets back on his feet and back into a basketball setting that is enriching for him.

The difference between you and KO is he was making $3 Million a year. Under any ordinary measure that is an extraordinary amount of money. Most people won't make half that in 20 years of hard work. Most CEOs don't make anywhere near that kind of annual compensation. So, I don't have empathy for KO in the least. Any semblance of perspective vanishes with fans and college sports. You want the big money, then perform. Otherwise, get out and stop the pity party.

 

[superjohn]

What's funny is, if KO detractors had been more magnanimous about giving credit for his first two years, a lot more people would have been on board with the KO is failing movement. But by saying that success was largely due to JC, they took away from the impact of all their other (valid) points.

I've always given him all the credit in the world for his first 2 years. Winning it all made him fat and happy, his weaknesses were exposed, and he ran it into the ground. He will be welcomed back when Hurley fixes the mess. Time for everyone to move on.

 

[Tenspro2002]

What's funny is, if KO detractors had been more magnanimous about giving credit for his first two years, a lot more people would have been on board with the KO is failing movement. But by saying that success was largely due to JC, they took away from the impact of all their other (valid) points.

I've been very consistent on this, as an early KO skeptic.

He wildly exceeded expectations in 2013 and 2014 (though not everything was perfect -- even then there were signs that his offense was not exactly "PhD in basketball" level). He did an incredible job getting his players (yes, they were his players, though they were predominantly JC's recruits) to buy in and develop into a cohesive team playing tough defense and clutch offense. He deserves credit for all of that.

When the job involved recruiting his own raw material and molding them as individuals and a team, he failed spectacularly in terms of talent identification, intangibles identification, player development, and team strategy.

Edit: To expand on this, he succeeded in 2013 and 2014 in large part due to JC having provided him with tough, coachable kids who were eager to learn and win. KO gets credit for taking those kids the rest of the way. He was horrible at finding that kind of recruit on his own though.

 

[AdamaNation]

What would Jesus do?

 

[Huskybass]

KO was learning on the job and improving as a coach I think, but no telling how long it would have taken him to reach his ceiling as a head coach, or how good that ceiling would have been. Hurley definitely seems an upgrade. Still, hope KO learned some lessons and succeeds if he ever gives college head coaching a second try.

Improving in what ways? What did you see this past season that was good?

 

[pj]

Improving in what ways? What did you see this past season that was good?

I think the recruiting improved - agree with Chief on that one. I think there was some player development, although there could have been more if Onuorah had sat. Once Gilbert went down they had significantly less talent than last year and so it was a bit of an accomplishment to get a similar record -- performance:talent ratio was better although still not nearly as good as Hurley's. Those are the three major ways you assess a head coach, and all improved versus the prior year. It looked like we weren't going to get many transfers or de-commits if KO had stayed on, so player retention was on track to improve too.

I think KO got help from JC, Blaney, Hobbs, etc his first few years, and demonstrated some significant strengths that complemented theirs. Then he lost the support of those ex-head coaches, and demonstrated a number of deficiencies in his own capabilities. He was slow to learn about his own weaknesses and figure out how to fix them, but he seemed to be making progress over the last year.

 

[JMick]

I think the recruiting improved - agree with Chief on that one. I think there was some player development, although there could have been more if Onuorah had sat. Once Gilbert went down they had significantly less talent than last year and so it was a bit of an accomplishment to get a similar record -- performance:talent ratio was better although still not nearly as good as Hurley's. Those are the three major ways you assess a head coach, and all improved versus the prior year. It looked like we weren't going to get many transfers or de-commits if KO had stayed on, so player retention was on track to improve too.

I think KO got help from JC, Blaney, Hobbs, etc his first few years, and demonstrated some significant strengths that complemented theirs. Then he lost the support of those ex-head coaches, and demonstrated a number of deficiencies in his own capabilities. He was slow to learn about his own weaknesses and figure out how to fix them, but he seemed to be making progress over the last year.

this isn't correct.

 

[Milo65]

For the record, I posted this on another thread.

JC on KO:

"I was still saddened by what happened. Kevin (Ollie) is my guy. But I know he'll bounce back. Like everything in life, it's difficult."

Thanks, like I said in my post, I didn’t see any comments, it didn’t mean Jim didn’t.

 

[The Funster]

What's funny is, if KO detractors had been more magnanimous about giving credit for his first two years, a lot more people would have been on board with the KO is failing movement. But by saying that success was largely due to JC, they took away from the impact of all their other (valid) points.

But it is difficult to logically separate the two. KO coached his ass off in March of 2014 and then seemingly fell off a cliff. There seems to be no other possibilities other than a) He did it on the back of JC or b) there was some kind of personal life situation that knocked him off his game.

Not being an insider and not knowing what may have gone on behind the scenes I watched the team that lost the first two games of the previous season and was appalled at what I saw. It was a poorly constructed roster that looked totally dysfunctional. It wasn't that they lost, it was how they looked while losing. I think the Gilbert and Larrier injuries only hid what was really going on: the program was a mess.

Now, looking at that, and comparing it to the Huskies charging to the title in 2014, it is not a poor conclusion to have that KO did win with JC players, IMO.

 

[David 76]

No one was calling for his head for six years.

Stop whining.

Whining? No. I was wrong about Ollie. Blind to his faults for too long.
But there are still some that led the dump Ollie movement that I wouldn't want to be associated with.

 

[intlzncster]

But it is difficult to logically separate the two. KO coached his ass off in March of 2014 and then seemingly fell off a cliff. There seems to be no other possibilities other than a) He did it on the back of JC or b) there was some kind of personal life situation that knocked him off his game.

The other possibility, which I think is probably a good part of it, is that: with the success of the 2014 NC, KO thought he knew it all and this coaching thing was easy. No longer looked to JC for counsel. His amazing bench of former HCs was eventually gutted, and he went on his own. Probably felt the recruiting floodgates would open up as well. Didn't look to grow or seek out new strategies. Coached with blinders on...etc etc

 

[MuchoDogYears]

What Ray Allen said in defending KO's work effort is from what he knew of KO back in their playing days at UConn and in the NBA.

Ray Allen wasn't at every practice for the past 6 years. Wasn't at every game. Wasn't around the program day in and day out.

His opinion is simply that of a good friend. The OP was absolutely wrong to give credence to Ray's uninformed opinion as supporting argument that KO worked hard. Honestly, your average UConn season ticket holder is much more knowledgable about KO's work ethic than Ray is.

 

[Huskybass]

I think the recruiting improved - agree with Chief on that one. I think there was some player development, although there could have been more if Onuorah had sat. Once Gilbert went down they had significantly less talent than last year and so it was a bit of an accomplishment to get a similar record -- performance:talent ratio was better although still not nearly as good as Hurley's. Those are the three major ways you assess a head coach, and all improved versus the prior year. It looked like we weren't going to get many transfers or de-commits if KO had stayed on, so player retention was on track to improve too.

I think KO got help from JC, Blaney, Hobbs, etc his first few years, and demonstrated some significant strengths that complemented theirs. Then he lost the support of those ex-head coaches, and demonstrated a number of deficiencies in his own capabilities. He was slow to learn about his own weaknesses and figure out how to fix them, but he seemed to be making progress over the last year.

Recruiting may have improved a bit. Player development did not. Results relative to talent didn't improve a bit. You dont play Columbia, an 8-17 team, to a draw after 40 minutes if you are getting proper production out of Adams, Vital, Larrier, Carlton, etc. Ditto for Monmouth. Those are teams that are lucky to have ANY UConn caliber talent, yet we had to go to OT at home against both of them.

If you are being honest with yourself you will admit that 2014 was still skewing your assessment of the head coach's performance in 2017-18.

 

[Ukonnfan]

Nailed it Ray.

 

[pj]

Recruiting may have improved a bit. Player development did not. Results relative to talent didn't improve a bit. You dont play Columbia, an 8-17 team, to a draw after 40 minutes if you are getting proper production out of Adams, Vital, Larrier, Carlton, etc. Ditto for Monmouth. Those are teams that are lucky to have ANY UConn caliber talent, yet we had to go to OT at home against both of them.

If you are being honest with yourself you will admit that 2014 was still skewing your assessment of the head coach's performance in 2017-18.

I was comparing 2017-18 to 2016-17. From the earlier team we lost Rodney Purvis (now an NBA player), Kentan Facey (a senior PF who had come on), Amida Brimah (7' rim protector), Vance Jackson (top 100 recruit, 8 pts 4 rbd per game), Steve Enoch (top 100), Juwan Durham (top 50). We replaced them with Antwoine Anderson, Josh Carlton, Tyler Polley, Mamadou Diarra (marginal top 100, but serious injuries), Isaiah Whaley, Eric Cobb, David Onuorah, Kwintin Williams. Basically 6 top 100 players, 3 of them seniors, replaced by 8 players none of whom rated in the top 100 (subtracting a few spots for Mamadou's injuries) and apart from Anderson and Onuorah, all in their first year of college ball. That is a huge drop in both talent and experience.

Yet with this vastly inferior talent and inexperience, the record was very similar.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Recruiting may have improved a bit. Player development did not. Results relative to talent didn't improve a bit. You dont play Columbia, an 8-17 team, to a draw after 40 minutes if you are getting proper production out of Adams, Vital, Larrier, Carlton, etc. Ditto for Monmouth. Those are teams that are lucky to have ANY UConn caliber talent, yet we had to go to OT at home against both of them.

If you are being honest with yourself you will admit that 2014 was still skewing your assessment of the head coach's performance in 2017-18.

He seemed aimless, with a deer in the headlights look. I got the impression that he threw together lineups and made in game roster moves based on nothing more logical than a magic 8 ball. “Maybe this lineup will work?” No. “Ok, this one”. Each as random and bizarre as the last. He started DO for weeks while we all could see he had better players. It was mind boggling. Never mind designing a roster or plan based on opponents strengths and weaknesses, he couldn’t figure out who to play against five folding chairs.

Last year he had six-seven healthy guys, and I think that helped him. He couldn’t decide much of anything. There were no real decisions to be made. As a result, they pulled together and won a few games. He also had Purvis as an on court leader who didn’t suffer lazy teammates.

Why did he deteriorate? I have no idea. Was he trying his hardest? I sure hope not. If those were the best decisions he’s capable of making, then I wouldn’t let him be a crossing guard, let alone coach a D1 team. He seemed distracted. I think he needs a re-set elsewhere to get his together. I hope he does.

 

[ctchamps]

I agree on diverse opinions. And I learned from people who were ahead of me on the dump Ollie issue. There are others who equate cynicism with intelligence and like a broken clock they will occasionally be right. That's all.

Bad language on my part. I know you and your mindset.

The only disagreement I had was over who should move on. Even as I inject my personal feelings I’d override that feeling when it comes to censorship. I know your not advocating censorship but others in this thread are insisting people move on or are ridiculing those who don’t now that KO is gone.

Some of those same people have been screaming for two years so I’ll support those on the other side for a while. I don’t believe in indulging tantrums or bullies.